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[Ninja Scooter]

its a shame this thread is simply degenerating into "OMG SHOOTING WHITE PEOPLE IS OKAY BUT NOT BLACKS NGAI YOU IDIOT!" when in reality all Ngai (to me) is trying to do is point out how people's history and perspective can cause them to view things differently. He's not saying capcom is racist. There is no right or wrong answer to this. Stop acting like morons.

 

[AmMortal]

So is that really the future of video game characters? All characters should just be racially ambiguous? I wouldn't mind that actually, and it would solve the problem of different groups being offended.

Yeah, why not... we can do that.. we don't have to bound by the disadvantages of race..

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

Freudian slip? :lol

:lol :lol you wouldn't believe how many times I edited my posts already, but one always slips under my radar :lol

 

[SaotomeMtl]

There is obviously a difference here between intent and perception. I'm sure the intent of the game designers at Capcom was not to be racist or play on stereotypes. I'm also sure that they didn't stop and think about the type of game they were playing.

I would love if we lived in a world where images didn't mean anything, but they do. And those calling it a double standard are right, but unfortunately this world is plenty of double standards. You cannot look at somewhere like Haiti without looking into its history. It was taken over by Europeans and is one of the only islands in the world where there was a successful revolution of the local population. I live in Quebec, and we have a large Haitian population who are very politically aware: aware of how Western powers have attempted to manipulate government on their island, and also aware of how troubled their leadership has been. When a US-led occupation between 94 and 04 was on the island, there were huge issues of racial imbalance. UN and American powers supported some pretty dreadful dictators there. The amount of racially charged politics from Haitian elite is still predominant today and I have spoken with some people here in Quebec about it.

Racism is especially a sensitive issue in Haiti.

So when you cast a pretty-boy white guy to go into the country, then infect the local black population to make them crazed zombies, you are creating a perception that is all too clear, whether or not the game creators meant it: the local population is savage and needs to be put down by white Western power.

Call me too PC (I'm not usually), but you can't deny the perception this game gives. It's not the only culprit, but it is the egregious of recent times. While games such as COD4 and other American military games involve the American military sometimes fighting in third world countries, these games are "largely" based on fact, or have some basis in history. Resident Evil 5 is fantasy, and as such it is much worse; because as fantasy it is portraying certain ideas open to interpretation. It is not historical, it is full of imagery. And frankly, the imagery can come off as racist. But as N'Gai mentoned, it depends WHO YOU ARE. Some of us, as white gamers, will not really see it, but the Haitian population will, and I don't blame them for interpreting it through their history and being upset about it.

 

[MikeHaggar]

What sickens me about this entire thread is that, even without reading the article, all the information you need is right there in the headline.

RE5 TRAILER
IMAGERY
is racist.

And, essentially, this is what N'Gai says. He doesn't say that the game is racist. He doesn't say that you can't have black zombies. He actually goes to great lengths to show he's not saying that, and yet, everywhere this article is posted people just love to make up their own straw men to argue against. He even states several times the sage advice that people in this thread seem to be doling out: that final judgement will, of course, be left till the game is out.

Here it is in a nutshell:

The trailer, without any context, portrays the not yet zombified Africans as a group of dark, dangerous others. This imagery draws on, either intentionally or otherwise, classical racist imagery that dates back to colonial times.

Why put out a trailer like this? Do they think everyone who sees it will understand the context it exists in? Thats a very silly assumption. RE4 was big, but not that big.

i can agree with this. however, within its context, the trailer makes complete sense, is totally unoffensive, and contains nothing that remotely even resembles racism. so, the question should then be asked: should we judge the trailer within the context of the game it represents or outside of it? i think the answer is quite obvious...

 

[AmMortal]

THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD SOLVE THIS IS BY GIVING CHRIS A BLACK FATHER...:lol

 

[alr1ght]

1. White Protagonist/Foreigner entering poor African town
2. That poor African town features accurate demographics for the area
3. They look at him strangely (RACIST!)
4. They turn to zombies
5. They attack the white man
6. The white man defends himself (RACIST!)


It's not racist. It's a zombie killing game set in Africa, which by last count had a lot of black population.

I'm going to make a game based in the Arctic featuring crocodiles as the main enemy as to not offend the polar bear population there.

 

[JDSN]

The Europe on 1942 example is what bugged me the most, aside from the obvious slippery slope I cant believe he is comparing mass murder of innocent people to African zombies. It seems a bit hypocritical that he is asking for accuracy from developers just now too, im surprising he wasnt complaining about white zombies living in a mansion with Dobermans (ZOMG NAZI) or Spaniard white villagers that talk like Mexicans. Capcom has always admittedly made their games based on American films, thats why the original RE had those B-movie scenes, thats why RE5 is inspired in Black Hawk Down, hell even RE4 acknowledged this in its ending. I cant believe he is complaining about that, what a fucking cliche.

There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. There sort of being, in sort of post-modern parlance, they’re sort of “othered.” They’re hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who’s coming to help the people. It’s like they’re all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It’s not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They’re all dangerous men, women and children.

Leon killed tons of Ganados before he realized they were infected, I guess this means he was showing his racial superiority or some stupid shit like that.

 

[Shockgamer]

1. I propose a drinking game. Read this thread, and take a chug anytime somebody references this page.

2. It's subjects like this one that expose the lip servicers and the fair weather friends. It's much easier to be supportive when the subjects are unchallenging populist articles like how advertising is at risk of subjugating the gaming media.

3. If this is how gamers who are familiar with Resident Evil on some level will react, I cannot wait for this game to reach Florida, the newsdesks and Washington. It. Will. Be. Epic. :lol

 

[lastendconductor]

American-Spanish war

wat

 

[RevenantKioku]

So do you just enjoy being a goddamned penis all the time? GTFO!

Someone needs a hug! Let me go find the appropriate context for this hug though, I wouldn't want someone taking it out of context and making a big deal out of it! That'd just be a waste of all our time! I definitely need to spend countless hours making sure everyone understands the context so that no one will be offended!

 

[alr1ght]

so, the question should then be asked: should we judge the trailer within the context of the game it represents or outside of it? i think the answer is quite obvious...

Do you watch the news? It's all soundbites and clippings with a healthy dose of opinion and non-critical thinking.

 

[Kosma]

Where did I say anything about any being more than another. No offense because i've actually agreed with a lot of your posts up until now. Really i'm beggining to think some issues can turn some level headed people to almost all levels of crazy. If as humans we're all equal why the heck do we then turn around and put a stamp of whats more atrocious based of statistics washing out the basic message.? They both reflect just how callous and disgusting humans can be as a race. So again why is one more important to you based on numbers.?

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression maybe and thanks for thinking Im normally level headed.

Both slavery and the shoah are horrible events, I just wanted to say that besides that they cant really be compared. Maybe its because I study history though Im a bit anal about this stuff.

 

[Tobor]

Thanks? Aren't you the one talking about getting the heads out of the sand? Please try your ass.

I think what a lot of people are saying is "Stop." Stop wasting everyone's time trying to hot-button things that have no need.

I'm not sure I follow the first part of your response.

We should be having an interesting discussion about the world economy and how multi-national companies should be thinking about global social implications in the art and imagery within games. Does a company like Capcom have the obligation to be culturally aware of the images they are working with?

Instead it's a back and forth nonsensical debate about whether or not it is racist at all, which is inherently ridiculous since we are talking about imagery and opinion.

its a shame this thread is simply degenerating into "OMG SHOOTING WHITE PEOPLE IS OKAY BUT NOT BLACKS NGAI YOU IDIOT!" when in reality all Ngai (to me) is trying to do is point out how people's history and perspective can cause them to view things differently. He's not saying capcom is racist. There is no right or wrong answer to this. Stop acting like morons.

And on this bit of wisdom, I'm done as well.

 

[harSon]

I'm starting to believe that people are responding to the thread without actually reading the article in the OP. N'Gai is not saying the game is racist, he simply said the trailer has racially insensitive elements that he (and possibly others) find disturbing.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

whenever i see one of these threads I try to imagine what it would be like if we were all in the same room. Total chaos and people shouting at each other:lol

 

[bigmakstudios]

For those of you comparing this to creating a game where you kill Jews during WWII, what kind of crack are you on? In RE5, Chris only kills these black villagers because they are infected with some sort of virus. They are not depicted in a historically offensive way, such as being slaves, before their infection. But if this game was set during the holocaust, and Jews took the roles of the "othered" zombies... jesus christ I don't even know why I'm attempting to post a response explaining how these situations are so different. It's self explanatory.
Also, I think this talk of posters deserving to be shot in the face is going to get people banned.

 

[neojubei]

please close thread now :/

second'd

 

[MisterHero]

I'm starting to believe that people are responding to the thread without actually reading the article in the OP. N'Gai is not saying the game is racist, he simply said the trailer has racially insensitive elements that he (and possibly others) find disturbing.

So the trailer is not representative of the entire game. What are we (and Capcom) supposed to do about it?

Was there a mistake and Capcom should learn from it to prevent future awkward trailer releases?

 

[GhaleonQ]

2. It's subjects like this one that expose the lip servicers and the fair weather friends. It's much easier to be supportive when the subjects are unchallenging populist articles like how advertising is at risk of subjugating the gaming media.

It doesn't surprise me that you see any sort of provocation as meritorious.

If N'Gai handed that in as an academic p...no, not even a paper. If he handed it in as a sketch of a proposed article, he'd be laughed out of the room. Most people in this topic are saying that his argument is dumb, not that he shouldn't have made an argument.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

What sickens me about this entire thread is that, even without reading the article, all the information you need is right there in the headline.

RE5 TRAILER
IMAGERY
is racist.

And he would have a point if you couldn't simply switch racist with horror. It clearly marks itself out as a horror game, it's always been a horror franchise. Yes, the imagery could be seen as racist, however the context is clearly stated in the commercial. The message is clearly "Fear these black people because they're zombies"

The thing that I find offensive is that people are assuming blacks are the only race that are victimized by racism, you could change the protagonist and enemies to different colors and the message will still be "Fear these people of this skin color". I really fail to see the relevance to black history, I see the relevance to xenophobia and racism as a whole which has pretty much been proved to be shared between every nation known to man. It's exactly like RE4.

So could somebody please tell me what characteristics of racism towards blacks exist here?

 

[TheWolf]

i don't think the trailer has racist elements. i think he hypersensitive black guy is being a baby.

also, this "deepest thinker in the world of videogame journalism" stuff is also retarded.

 

[VonGak!]

One of the few time I do not agree with N'Gai but... nope I can't really see where he is coming from other than they made Haiti look like the most impoverished ares of Africa.

 

[Synless]

I keep seeing people say the imagery is racist, how so? It's Africa...there's African people there, one white guy. The African's are attacking the white guy and he's attacking back, he's clearly outnumbered by many if there was a racist tone anywhere I would think it's against the white guy......if I was ignorant like that. But because I'm not all I see here is a game that is taking place in a different country, it just so happens that there are African's in this game that takes place in Africa...so what's the problem?

 

[Zzoram]

One of the few time I do not agree with N'Gai but... nope I can't really see where he is coming from other than they made Haiti look like the most impoverished ares of Africa.

It's set in Africa, not Haiti.

 

[saelz8]

No, they are not.
But we didn't see any people complaining about racist imagery for those cases. We have the racism issue now Biohazard 5.

There were Italians that complained about The Sopranos

To some New Jersey Italians, it was. Maybe not a crime. But a tired insult. Or a worn-out Jersey joke. Because to some Italians, the problem with the Sopranos isn't that it makes people think all Italians are in the mob. It makes them think all Italians are a bunch of violent, stupid, uncouth, loud-mouthed slobs.

You will have some individuals associated with the subjects complain or be offended by it, in some fashion, in some form. This generally being magnified to extents if said groups have relational history of some sort of conflict, as exampled by The Passion. (Jews, Catholics). It's a priming of insecurity, bound by inter-group knowledge of history. It's a kind of promotion to subhumanship of the outgroup, and that's an element in what people generally are afraid of. It's a fear of repetitional potential.

In thise case, I'm curious why some people in this thread dismiss subliminal programming potential, particularly of the visual nature? (Which is the strongest)

There is literature on this - The New Unconscious (Social Cognition and Social Neuroscience)

 

[VeritasVierge]

Someone needs a hug! Let me go find the appropriate context for this hug though, I wouldn't want someone taking it out of context and making a big deal out of it! That'd just be a waste of all our time! I definitely need to spend countless hours making sure everyone understands the context so that no one will be offended!

Get off your fucking high horse. Why are you in this topic if you have ZERO intention to contrbute something positive to it. Instead of knocking on people that would liek to share their opinions ON SAID TOPIC for better or worse. Didn't you say you were leaving? If you are going to respond to me, respond to what I asked you. Show me where I wasn't open minded. Respond with that or shut the fuck up, you unwitty loser.

I Think you picked a fight with me because I'm black and I said the trailer is presented out of context. This is a black thing isn't it now? Why are you picking a fight with me you can't finish unless it's a racially motived attack on your part. What is it then? Are you racist?




(No, I'm completely aware the douche isn't racist but pricks like him in this thread making jokes about racism and changing the world get it no where fast)

 

[avatar299]

So the trailer is not representative of the entire game. What are we (and Capcom) supposed to do about it?

Was there a mistake and Capcom should learn from it to prevent future awkward trailer releases?

Don't release a trailer

 

[AmMortal]

Why not ask the people in question, Somalian/ethiopean people?

ask me and I will single handedly end this thread.

So we can finally stop the bitching..

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

I would expect this from Al Sharpton, you know, someone who judges the cover without even bothering to look at the pages.

But N'Gai??? A well respected game journalist who knows all too well how the media can take one trailer out of context and cause a huge crisis over it?

Ok if he saw the game, and its story, and then had some opinions I could understand, but making a statement like this over a trailer?


PS by the way why cant racism ever get brought up over REAL issues? instead it gets brought up in game trailers and radio talk show remarks.

 

[antiloop]

Is the only way to solve this to have equally many people from every race in the game? Plus you could choose the main characters race.

But I doubt that would solve it.

 

[Ronin]

One of the few time I do not agree with N'Gai but... nope I can't really see where he is coming from other than they made Haiti look like the most impoverished ares of Africa.

Whut.

 

[Xater]

Why not ask the people in question, Somalian/ethiopean people?

ask me and I will single handedly end this thread.

So we can finally stop the bitching..

So how do you think about it? Do you think the trailer is racist?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm starting to believe that people are responding to the thread without actually reading the article in the OP. N'Gai is not saying the game is racist, he simply said the trailer has racially insensitive elements that he (and possibly others) find disturbing.

And some people see penises in random ink blots.

I think the way people react to the trailer says more about their own perceptions and views. Just as many people see nothing wrong with it. But by drawing attention to the perceived offense, people are just reinforcing the outdated views which they claim it represents. I don't think it's very productive. It's being over-senstive and reading too much into things.

 

[AmMortal]

So how do you think about it? Do you think the trailer is racist?

WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER!

It's just a game, nothing racial or politically incetized about it.

WTF!
/thread NOW!

 

[Doc Evils]

It's set in Africa, not Haiti.

I thought capcom said it was Haiti?

 

[Xater]

WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER!

It's just a game, nothing racial or politically incetized about it.

WTF!

Well it was already said but it is still true: Only in America.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Why not ask the people in question, Somalian/ethiopean people?

ask me and I will single handedly end this thread.

So we can finally stop the bitching..

Croal made it very clear that it's not about you. The correct question to propose would be, "Is anyone here a film student, cinematographer, or studio head who lived in the 1920's?"

 

[Ptaaty]

People definately need to understand that there is a difference between racially insensitive and racism.

Racially insensitive usually comes from a someone with lack of education/context compared to someone with more experience or education on racial issues. In a truly color blind society, the racially insensitive comment, aspect, etc, goes unnoticed...it is the closest thing we can be to the "right way" and completely equal.

The problem is, things have happened in this world which create a context...some are aware of them (those in the USA are painfully aware) some are completely clueless (Capcom).

Personally, I just wish society would move on already...creating a big deal out of anything that can possibly be contrued as insensitive, have any type of bias and calling it racist just perpetuates our differences.

Capcom is not racist, not at all. Capcom is, in the eyes of the PC schooled (IMO division creating education) US citizen, racially insenstive.

I can't wait to play RE5. I am a while male in my early 30s with a few black friends, some hispanic, I guess I just could care less about race or race issues....I just want everyone to actually be treated equally. But because I understand that due to our country's past, my friends (and my own) knowledge of this past...I choose to limit my racially insensitive comments and behavior whenever I know they exist.

RE5 is going to be an awesome game....I think Capcom made a (unintential) mistake going to the Africa locale, at least in the form presented in trailers. The biggest reason is that there is a thread on this at all. I want to be excited to play a game, not even think about race.

 

[JDSN]

One of the few time I do not agree with N'Gai but... nope I can't really see where he is coming from other than they made Haiti look like the most impoverished ares of Africa.

:lol

 

[soul creator]

Tim Wise would have a field day reading these responses, lol

 

[Xater]

Croal made it very clear that it's not about you. The correct question to propose would be, "Is anyone here a film student, cinematographer, or studio head who lived in the 1920's?"

I am technically a film student.

 

[Kipe]

its a shame this thread is simply degenerating into "OMG SHOOTING WHITE PEOPLE IS OKAY BUT NOT BLACKS NGAI YOU IDIOT!" when in reality all Ngai (to me) is trying to do is point out how people's history and perspective can cause them to view things differently. He's not saying capcom is racist. There is no right or wrong answer to this. Stop acting like morons.

This was the only route this thread topic was going to go. Ngai should have waited until he played the game because he doesn't have much of case with only a trailer using only imagery as evidence.

But just because someone hasn't played the game I still think you can expect cultural insensitivity throughout the game because we're talking Capcom here i.e. Japanese people i.e. a homogenous culture. For proof of that here's what dknight wrote earlier in the thread for people that missed it since the thread was going so fast.

STOP comparing this to RE4.
RE4 is not racist because "Spaniard" IS NOT A RACE. We are caucasian white. That game was full of ignorant and stupid shit like mixing us with latin-americans (Luis Sera was a fucking joke), but it was not racist, just ignorant.
The guys at CAPCOM have no fucking clue and they're just copying random racist stuff and imagery without giving it and afterthought just because it's "scary". Do you also think black hawk down is not racist? please.

 

[Deadly Monk]

Here it is in a nutshell:

The trailer, without any context, portrays the not yet zombified Africans as a group of dark, dangerous others. This imagery draws on, either intentionally or otherwise, classical racist imagery that dates back to colonial times.

Why put out a trailer like this? Do they think everyone who sees it will understand the context it exists in? Thats a very silly assumption. RE4 was big, but not that big.

Obviously not intentional, which is why N'Gai sounds like an idiot. That's the point. There is something going on with the characters in the game that is not right. It's called good lighiting and angle, not "darkened area where man is sitting is evil. Oh my god, black people are bad!". The point is, the fact that he even finds the IMAGES in a trailer racist that have nothing to do with racism but everything to do with MOOD makes him sound like every other person out there trying to find something to complain about.

This is a cultural issue, not racial and I can't believe he's not smart enough to back away for a moment and see the trailer for what it is. Sigh, no other Country, especially not Africa, will give a shit about this. Why is that we care so much about the trailer being thought of as racist and the actual Country it's set in doesn't?

I guess something as silly as videogames still need contreversy every so often or these guys would have nothing to say other than "hey, this game is good!" and "hey, it's bad!". Enthusiast Press at it's finest...

 

[diunxx]

One of the few time I do not agree with N'Gai but... nope I can't really see where he is coming from other than they made Haiti look like the most impoverished ares of Africa.

haiti is in america(the continent) not africa.

 

[AmMortal]

One more thing, do they still teach the history of slavery in America?

I know it was messed up, but the only way to get rid of it is to erase it from history. Non of the racist things going on now would be here if the whole idea of slavery was just made to be a myth.

In many ways, its holding back the african american citizens of the USA, they still think that they have to act like a threat to never let that happen again. The truth though is that only going forward and coming together is a way to solve all the issues now.

Erase black slavery in the USA from the books( simply stop teaching it), and then you've got yourselves a generation unaware of the dark history of the country.

Although, it still amazes me why the government still hasn't done this.

what could be the reason?

 

[Raxel]

I'm Indian and I ADORE Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, I don't see what's so different in this situation.

 

[phalestine]

People definately need to understand that there is a difference between racially insensitive and racism.

Racially insensitive usually comes from a someone with lack of education/context compared to someone with more experience or education on racial issues. In a truly color blind society, the racially insensitive comment, aspect, etc, goes unnoticed...it is the closest thing we can be to the "right way" and completely equal.

The problem is, things have happened in this world which create a context...some are aware of them (those in the USA are painfully aware) some are completely clueless (Capcom).

Personally, I just wish society would move on already...creating a big deal out of anything that can possibly be contrued as insensitive, have any type of bias and calling it racist just perpetuates our differences.

Capcom is not racist, not at all. Capcom is, in the eyes of the PC schooled (IMO division creating education) US citizen, racially insenstive.

I can't wait to play RE5. I am a while male in my early 30s with a few black friends, some hispanic, I guess I just could care less about race or race issues....I just want everyone to actually be treated equally. But because I understand that due to our country's past, my friends (and my own) knowledge of this past...I choose to limit my racially insensitive comments and behavior whenever I know they exist.

RE5 is going to be an awesome game....I think Capcom made a (unintential) mistake going to the Africa locale, at least in the form presented in trailers. The biggest reason is that there is a thread on this at all. I want to be excited to play a game, not even think about race.

Good point, take Zack and Wiki for example that whole "Allahu Akbar"—meaning God is great, thing. Capcom wasnt trying to say That Arabs are savages, they just didn't know any better.

Offtopic: I wish they would of kept the "Allahu Akbar" in the stage , it was kinda cool.

 

[Reilly]

One more thing, do they still teach the history of slavery in America?

I know it was messed up, but the only way to get rid of it is to erase it from history. Non of the racist things going on now would be here if the whole idea of slavery was just made to be a myth.

In many ways, its holding back the african american citizens of the USA, they still think that they have to act like a threat to never let that happen again. The truth though is that only going forward and coming together is a way to solve all the issues now.

Erase black slavery in the USA from the books( simply stop teaching it), and then you've got yourselves a generation unaware of the dark history of the country.

Although, it still amazes me why the government still hasn't done this.

what could be the reason?

:lol

 

[angelfly]

I read through this whole thread and it's simply a mess. I understand what N'Gai is talking about however I just don't see the racism. I'm black and didn't get offended by the trailer's imagery. It's different for other people though. I think it all comes down to the individual and their own background.

Asian people may feel offended by imagery in <insert media here>
Spanish people may feel offended by imagery <insert media here>
Black people may feel offended by imagery <insert media here>
etc..

I think it may be a lot harder for someone on the outside to see it. And even in the case of people of the same they may not see it at all. As I said I think it depends on the individual and their own background. I really think these topics in this forum should be avoided.