Ysiadmihi said:Wow.
There is a difference, and I'm talking strictly video games here (I hope you were smart enough to figure this out).
Ysiadmihi said:Wow.
onemic said:Please read the article again and then come back and post.
harSon said:Is the Resident Evil 4 defense the only thing people can come up with? African descended people have been oppressed for hundreds of years whether it being in the United States, Haiti, or Africa itself. Bill Maher said it best, people can't come off of hundreds of years of slavery, oppression, and racism and expect to be on "equal footing". Like it or not, there is a difference between killing any race in a game (White, Spanish, Asian, etc..) and a white guy killing third world shanty town dwelling Haitians.
There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. There sort of being, in sort of post-modern parlance, theyre sort of othered. Theyre hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone whos coming to help the people. Its like theyre all dangerous; they all need to be killed. Its not even like one cute African or Haitian or Caribbean child could be saved. Theyre all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed. And given the history, given the not so distant post-colonial history, you would say to yourself, why would you uncritically put up those images? Its not as simple as saying, Oh, they shot Spanish zombies in Resident Evil 4, and now black zombies and thats why people are getting upset. The imagery is not the same. It doesnt carry the same history, it doesnt carry the same weight. I dont know how to explain it more clearly than that.
Its like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it. It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940s with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people. If you put up that imagery people would be saying, Are you crazy? Well, thats what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you cant pretend otherwise. That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. If youre going to tread, if youre going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace.
Its very difficult in this country, in many countries, to have a conversation about race. Everyone brings to it their own history, their own perspective. Some people are engaged in it, some people arent. I think some people are concerned because some people think there is a double standard. Some people say that when its images of only black people then people get concerned. Some people feel like their hobby is under attack; its being misinterpreted or misunderstood. Again the portrayal of Africa, or the Caribbean, since we dont know where its being set, as sort of this dark, dangerous continent filled with people who only want to do you harm goes back a long, long way. And based on the images put up on the trailer, what else are you supposed to take from it? Especially if youre not familiar with the franchise?
Even if you are familiar with the franchise, if you are familiar with those images and their historical weight, you look at it and say, Man, thats kind of messed up. Then you look at the music that was used in the trailers, thats one of the things that was sort of funny in so that you had those people who were saying, Its not even Africa, its Haiti or somewhere in the Caribbean. The music that theyre using in the trailer is very reminiscent of the music used in Black Hawk Down which was set in Africa Somalia. That actually was one of the things that was most disturbing because it sort of had a feeling as like, Wow, what research did this team do? Did they only watch Black Hawk Down and give it this kind of vibe?
N'Gai Croal said:Wow, clearly no one black worked on this game.
Y2Kev said:A lot of gamers have been pushing for a long time to have games evaluated as art. And if you want that, this is what happens-- video games will be evaluated as art.
I know it bugs a lot of gamers because they want critics not to meddle with their awesome zombie head-blowing-off extravaganza (hey, it's fun, I admit), but I think a lot of people are ignoring what this kind of imagery means to some people.
sp0rsk said:What stereotype? People in poor country are poor? Being racist is saying all black people are stupid, because they're black. These people aren't poor or zombies because they are black. Hell, we hardly know anything about the game's story.
Maybe it's because I'm a white middle class Jew, but I just don't see it!
Its like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it. It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940s with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people. If you put up that imagery people would be saying, Are you crazy? Well, thats what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you cant pretend otherwise. That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. If youre going to tread, if youre going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace.
Tiduz said:I still dont get that argument, why isnt it racist when you shoot white people? First they are polygons, not real humans, second its only a colour of skin, it wouldnt make sense to have white people in haiti. They did it in africa because thats where humanity started if you watched the interview. nothing racist about it at all IMO.
El_TigroX said:This line from N'Gai's article is what REALLY bugged me. So oppression of other races or violence against other races does not hold any of the weight or history as violence against black people? I think the Egyptians might have something to say about that - I think Native Americans would have something to say about that - I think Jewish people might have something to say about that.
He holds here, a bit of elitism about oppression - as if black oppression is at the top of some hierarchy pyramid.
N'Gai gives a good example. What if there was a game where you were shooting stereotypical Jewish people? What if there was a game where you were an American colonist shooting barbaric Indians (alright, Custer's Revenge)? The portrayal of the black people in the RE5 trailer is pretty grim and menacing, even without the zombie element.Tiduz said:I still dont get that argument, why isnt it racist when you shoot white people? First they are polygons, not real humans, second its only a colour of skin, it wouldnt make sense to have white people in haiti. They did it in africa because thats where humanity started if you watched the interview. nothing racist about it at all IMO.
I don't see anyone complaining that whites are often treated as red necks, smoking, foul mouthed idiots or Chinese being constantly portrayed as mobsters.
N'Gai Croal said:There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. There sort of being, in sort of post-modern parlance, theyre sort of othered. Theyre hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone whos coming to help the people. Its like theyre all dangerous; they all need to be killed. Its not even like one cute African or Haitian or Caribbean child could be saved. Theyre all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed. And given the history, given the not so distant post-colonial history, you would say to yourself, why would you uncritically put up those images? Its not as simple as saying, Oh, they shot Spanish zombies in Resident Evil 4, and now black zombies and thats why people are getting upset. The imagery is not the same. It doesnt carry the same history, it doesnt carry the same weight. I dont know how to explain it more clearly than that.
keanerie said:Is this the LocoRoco blackface controversy all over again? I'm going to have to agree with sp0rsk here: The people making this game aren't even aware that they're offending anybody, they just don't know because they don't have that history.
That's basically it.
Or is N'Gai's complaint that gamers aren't more in an uproar about this allegedly blatant racist imagery? That people are too racially numb and gamers are too focused on "omg RE5 Chris Redfield punchin' zombies" to notice the import of the game's visual language?
I think N'Gai's imposing some of his complaints about American society in a place where they don't really fit.
Stop It said:You do know that makes it worse right? If any media is going to cover a certain subject, at least do the proper research prior to it. IF Capcom are just thinking "Ooh, Haiti, Zombies, they come from there, lets set Resi 5 there!" and making the rest up as they go along, they deserve all criticism that comes their way.
I hope, really hope they aren't that stupid, especially based off what we have seen so far, the game itself may be great, but you can't go around playing to stereotypes and not expect a firestorm to follow it.
SupahBlah said:Resident Evil 4 is racist against Spaniards.
This is why you can't do anything, black enemies? Racist. Black lead character? Racist.
Set games in Europe killing white people and no one cares.
Tiduz said:I still dont get that argument, why isnt it racist when you shoot white people? First they are polygons, not real humans, second its only a colour of skin, it wouldnt make sense to have white people in haiti. They did it in africa because thats where humanity started if you watched the interview. nothing racist about it at all IMO.
F#A#Oo said::lol
What about Indians?
Are you saying;
Blacks>>>>Indians or any other race for that matter?
gofreak said:To look at another, very much accepted artform, if I paint a picture of KKK members killing a black person..does that make me racist? If make a movie depicting it?
The events in RE5 aren't even remotely that close to forging a racist connection from a historic perspective. You're killing these zombies because they are zombies, not because they're black zombies.
The developers should put a test of your racism in the game! Throw in a lone white zombie! Test the player's reaction? (Duh, the player will shoot it too).
Ninja Scooter said:I have to admit when i first saw it i didn't get offended, but i did think "Hmm, this is going to offend somebody...". Its a little touchy because of the history particularly in this country, but i still think its a case of oversensitivity.
Duck of Death said:N'Gai makes his point very clear:
I think he's spot-on.
sp0rsk said:The problem with this logic is that you think that black people all around the world = African Americans.
sp0rsk said:The problem with this logic is that you think that black people all around the world = African Americans.
Ninja Scooter said:he's talking about the imagery and the history behind it. There is no such history with spaniards (from RE4) like there is with black people. N'Gai is just saying the imagery evokes some racist history. I mean, if you made a game where a cop goes back in time and attacks a bunch of slave sharecroppers in the deep south it would look a lot like RE5. I don't think N'Gai is saying the game developers are racist (if he is i disagree completely) but that they just weren't aware of the history and didn't know any better.
alr1ghtstart said:same. This game will not be released in it's current or intended form. To dampen the "Al Sharpton's" criticism and others of his ilk, there will be other races present in the final version or other drastic changes; whether that was Capcom's original intention or not. There's one thing that gets people up in arms more than (videogame) violence, and that's (videogame) racism.
it's really hard to make a judgment about what Capcom was thinking because we really haven't seen much of the game or its story, only shots in the same small village.
I just want to play the game, dammit.
Duck of Death said:N'Gai makes his point very clear:
I think he's spot-on.
I think it's difficult to tell they are zombies at first glance. They look and act pretty human in what we've seen. I think people just see these zombies as ravenous, inhuman animals (because that's what zombies are) and freak out because, well, in history that connection has been drawn much more definitively and without any layer of abstraction.
sp0rsk said:The problem with this logic is that you think that black people all around the world = African Americans.
sp0rsk said:Do you remember any cute Spaniards in RE4? Context people. Context makes a world of difference. We have no idea why these people are the way they are, and it's stupid to assume we do.
Tobor said:I don't buy this either. They are making a game they hope to sell predominantly in the United States, and are basically walking into a cultural buzzsaw. Hire an American over there with some insight.
gofreak said:To look at another, very much accepted artform, if I paint a picture of KKK members killing a black person..does that make me racist? If make a movie depicting it?
Those are depictions of events that actually do have a historic link to racist people and events, but EVEN THAT wouldn't necessarily make the work racist, nor its author.
The events in RE5 aren't even remotely that close to forging a racist connection from a historic perspective. It's a fictional concept. You're killing these zombies because they are zombies, not because they're black zombies.
The developers should put a test of your racism in the game! Throw in a lone white zombie! Test the player's reaction? (Duh, the player will shoot it too). It's not about race unless you consider zombies to be a race.
pn18 said:Please Capcom, make 'em white and stop the debate. Thank you.
pn18 said:Please Capcom, make 'em white and stop the debate. Thank you.