littleworm
Member
9 points out of a playoff spot, points in 9 of our last 10 games, and a little over 20 games left in the season. Not saying were gonna make it but were not dead just yet.
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NHL February |OT| FIRE ALL THE THINGS
- Thread starter Lone_Prodigy
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Best scenario for the season is habs drop most of the rest of the games get a 2-5th round pick, Gauthier ships out gill / moen for picks, trade kostitsyn + weber for a decent player and somehow campoli, kaberle and Gomez all go for a ride with heatley in the off season.
Foreign Jackass
Member
See? That's the good attitude to have. Nobody in this league truly tanks (except maybe Columbus). We got beat tonight by a team that showed heart even though they're last in the conference. There's no way tanking is good for a team. The only way to tank is with lazy players, and the Habs aren't filled with them. Eller, Leblanc, Plekanec, Gill, Gorges, Cole, MaxPac, Desharnais, you think those guys will accept losing, letting go of this year, in the slight hope that an 18 year old kid might come next year and change the franchise? Fuck this shit.
The Habs will try to make the playoffs, like any respectable organization does, year in, year out. Fuck the losers.
Eastern conference is so fucking tight this year.
SpectreFire
Member
Jesus, Higgins lost 10 lbs over the course of his infection.
Zombie James
Banned
Thanks Sharks and Canes.
When I say I want the team to tank I don't realistically expect the team to actually quit playing, it's my way of saying "I hope we conveniently lose the rest of the games and get a potential number 1 center we've always needed" What's the point of finishing in 9th and getting a mid round pick? That's what the Leafs have been doing and look at how that worked out for them.
Foreign Jackass
Member
The point of finishing 9th is trying to finish 8th, and have a shot at the Stanley Cup. Regular season is bullshit, I barely watch it as it is.
It's even worse on the radio.
I can only imagine. "X passes to Y, puck taken away by A, passes to B, checked by Z, the puck now with Q" -yawn-
KingHenrik30
Member
Teams that finish 8th don't win the Stanley Cup. No 8 seed ever has. No 6th, 7th or 8th has ever won it. Only 5th to ever win it was the Devils (once I believe). Pens won is as the 4th, but after that, it's all 1,2 or 3s.
This. We need to get better and we aren't doing that by finishing 9th.
There's a reason they call an eighth seed that makes the final a Cinderella team.
Nicely done Godboy.
SpectreFire
Member
What a fucking effort play by booth.
KingHenrik30
Member
Exactly. There is no Cinderella in hockey.
If TBay somehow wins that game 7, Vancouver would have gotten the cup.
What a power move!
Foreign Jackass
Member
Plenty of low-seeders have made it to the conference finals, and a couple made it to the Finals. There's a first for everything.
I'd say the long run we had to the conference finals 2 years ago made Gorges the player he is right now. Playing in the NHL playoffs this year would be way more benefitting to players like Eller, Leblanc, Desharnais, Max-Pac, Subban, Price, Diaz and Emelin then missing the playoffs.
You try hard, every year. If you don't make it, it's a shame.
That's professional sports for you. But of course, sitting and whining about low draft picks is not exactly a sport.
Foreign Jackass
Member
There's no Cinderella in any sport. Until there is.
If this (http://sportslistoftheday.com/2011/04/23/nhl-stanley-cup-playoffs-winners-by-see) is still accurate, then there has never been a team lower than 5th seed that won the Stanley Cup (and that happened only twice too), at least in modern times.
Oilers were the only team to reach the final as 8th seed, but lost in 7 against Caroline in 04. Black Hawks and Toronto won in the 40s while being the "worst" team qualified, but not technically 8th seed.
KingHenrik30
Member
If it hasn't happened by now, it's probably not any time soon.
Teams finish in 8th for a reason. They don't go all the way because of those reasons.
Playoff experience is good, but if you're expecting to win it all by finishing below 4th, you're pretty much Lloyd Christmas - "So you're saying there's a chance!"
Well the Leafs have finished 7th, 7th, 2nd, 9th last in the last four years. Nowhere near 9th in the conference for the past four years.
I think ForeignJackass has the right idea. Your team should always be competitive or close to it, year in year out, always attempting to make the playoffs. Chasing a 9th spot in the conference year in year out shouldn't necessarily hurt your Cup chances. There are many ways to build a Cup winning team that don't involve getting handed a freebie superstar just for sucking. Building a good team involves a mix of drafting, free agent signings, and trades.
I think drafting is incredibly important, but I believe the key to success in the draft is to keep your 1st and 2nd round picks and to have a fantastic scouting department. I envy the way some teams have hit a home run with their 2nd round picks. Look at Boston's draft history and the way they've plucked a lot of their elite core through the draft:
2003, 2nd round, 45th overall: Patrice Bergeron
2004, 2nd round, 63rd overall: David Krejci (an aside: shouldn't there only be 60 picks in the first two rounds?)
2006, 1st round, 5th overall: Phil Kessel (their highest pick ended up being the least important player in their Cup victory)
2006, 2nd round, 50th overall: Milan Lucic
2006, 3rd round, 71st overall: Brad Marchand
And this is all supplemented with high impact signings like getting Zdeno Chara and with fruitfuil trades (Peverley, Kelly, Seguin). I would compare the way the Bruins were built to the Canucks as well. You have the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, etc... among other amazing talent drafted and homegrown by the Canucks along with trades (Luongo) and signings (Hamhuis) that allow them to compete for the Cup. And the Sedins being 1st and 2nd overall picks didn't end up doing anything for the Canucks. The Sedins might as well have been a bunch of 7th round picks given the length of time it took for them to mature into bonafide, dominating superstars. These teams aren't being handed a Stamkos-type player with the talent to immediately make an impact in the NHL and these teams still compete with the best of the best.
Let's ignore the fact that the Leafs haven't been a 9th in the east team for a long time. That comment didn't sit well with me. But even if they were slotting 9th in every year that would not be an acceptable excuse (from a Maple Leafs fan's point of view) for poor drafting and perpetual mediocrity. Keep your 1st and 2nd round picks and start drafting smart and you'll get a Krejci, Lucic and Bergeron trifecta instead of just one Stamkos.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I wouldn't call Samuelsson a scrub: he's been decent for the Panthers while healthy. Sturm had knee surgery and hasn't been anywhere near the player he used to be though.
A top-4 defenceman would require a massive overpayment. The Canucks do have Tanev and even Baumgartner should they require his veteran presence.
Foreign Jackass
Member
2010's Eastern Conference run was basically two cinderella teams beating everyone else. The Flyers won against the Canadiens in the conference finals, and yeah, they lost to Chicago in the end. But in any case, all 6 of the higher seeds were eliminated by two teams who barely made the fucking playoffs.
Hockey players don't care about what's been done before. They want to win. They want to make the playoffs, no matter what.
Hockey players don't care about what's been done before. They want to win. They want to make the playoffs, no matter what.
KingHenrik30
Member
Football is different. The Giants were the first 9-7 team to win it all this year. They weren't given much of a chance in 2007 either. When you play one game series anybody can win it all.
The chances of it happening in hockey are less than 1% i'd say.
KingHenrik30
Member
Bolded - end of story.
In the end, the team that finished as a 2 seed in the playoffs won it all.
Also, the Habs were so worn out from those two long series with the better seeded teams, they could barely stand up straight in the conference finals.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
This is why I love and hate football in a different way than hockey.
Looking forward to the game tomorrow night should be a great atmosphere with the playoffs inching closer. Hopefully the B's can keep up the effort from Saturday. Hilarious stat I read earlier: the last time the Bruins scored more than three goals against the Rangers, the three stars were Carl Corrazini, Jiri Slegr and Andrew Raycroft. The games are always so tight when these two teams play.
KingHenrik30
Member
An inordinate amount of games over the last few years between the Rangers and B's have been 1 goal games.
Yup but at the same time there's something to say about making the playoffs and getting that experience. No team is going to go from no playoffs to winning the Stanley Cup as things are now.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Ok, so there's just no point in getting the 6-7-8 spot, then. No point at all. Why have playoffs anyway?
I say let them try. Getting a high draft pick gets you absolutely no guarantee. Making the playoffs gets you a chance at winning the cup. A high draft pick gets you a what-if. I don't think I need to give examples of shitty ass teams who haven't made anything out of their high draft picks, but I will anyway : Columbus, Atlanta, Florida, NYI, Edmonton, TB, Colorado, LA, Toronto, etc.
KingHenrik30
Member
No I agree, and said that in a previous post.
littleworm
Member
Edmonton came within one game of doing so. They were a team that struggled for long parts of the 05-06 season, but they made changes and grabbed the 8 seed. They then went on the beat the best regular season team in the league and made it all the way to game 7 of the finals against all odds. Edmonton could of easily packed it in early for a good pick, but they made moves and played better and nearly won it all. Now look at where they are. They finished in last place in the last two season, and look where they are now 14th in the west and 29th in the league. While I do not know the in and outs of the Edmonton organisation it is clear that their number one picks haven't made a difference or at least not yet.
While Carolina hasn't fared much better we have made it back to the playoffs, which was probably the most enjoyable hockey moments I ever got to watch. Jokinen scoring the game wining goal with .4 seconds on the clock, scoring 2 goals in the last 90 seconds against the Devils in game 7. Then going on the beat the number one Bruins in dramatic fashion in game 7 of the series, in Boston, in overtime. We had to fight just to get there winning 8 out of last 10 games just to get a 7th seed. We could of easily tanked and these moments could of never happened.
While we could easily get a top 5 pick and try to get a better player, we can't be sure that it will ever pan out. What I do know is that this team has the ability to make it to the playoffs right now, while we are last in the east we are also a team that swept the defending champions. It's a long shot yes and if we make it it would only get harder, but we have always managed to make some playoff magic happen and we can do it again.
I understand your point and see the benefits of getting a better pick, but, I feel it would be trading something for possibly nothing (a bird in the hand kind of thing). The reason I love watching Carolina play is that they don't give up and they try their best to make it in at the cost of a better pick. Who knows where would would be if we did tank, but what I do know is that I enjoy watching our seemingly annual late season rallies, and would gladly take those two extra points and switch places with the Canadians.
SpectreFire
Member
I think it's more like:
Good scouting, followed by a good development system, and then finally high picks.
I really think the first two out-values having high picks. Look at the Canucks or Detroit, a lot of their gems came very late in the draft, or even undrafted. And a high pick prospect is as good as useless under a shitty development system, look at Kyle Turris, whereas someone undrafted players like Tanev or Lack can thrive into legitimate prospects.
Let's not mention Vancouver in the same breath as Detroit quite yet. The Wing's are still the gold standard in terms of scouting and development.
KingHenrik30
Member
If winning it all is your goal, then yeah, finishing 6,7, or 8 - you are shit out of luck. 5th as well, unless you are the pre-lockout Devils with an in his prime Brodeur.
Maybe less teams SHOULD be in the playoffs. Over half the teams in the NHL make it. It keeps a lot more people watching. But it is what it is. And the experience is good, like i've said. I personally really don't think it should be less teams.
Of course there is no guarantee with picks. It's more or less a calculated lottery ticket.
As for the teams you mentioned, that's on management for the most part. Columbus, Atlanta, NYI all have horrendous management. Toronto to an extent as well (Sorry Leafs-GAF, not sold on Kadri or Schenn, and Seguin is a stud and a half)
Tampa Bay? I'm pretty sure they don't regret getting Stamkos.
Edmoton? I'm pretty sure they don't regret having Taylor Hall and RNH on their first line for the forseeable future.
Colorado? Duchene and Landeskog are both awesome players.
So it all depends, both playoff experience and the ability to add cheap, high end, young talent to your lineup are valuable commodities.
These guys are professionals, they don't care about draft picks. The fans care about draft picks.
SpectreFire
Member
I am all but certain that their European scouts are in bed with European mafias.
Foreign Jackass
Member
All I'm saying is : no legitimate sports organization made of professionals will tank. It just doesn't happen. If Gauthier wants to trade everyone in the team, go ahead. But trading AK, Gill, Kaberle and other useless players will not make the team tank. Unfortunately, this team is too good to finish last. If it does indeed finish last, then it will have sucked enough to finish last! But there's just no such thing as tanking, as far as players go. Organizations may fill their ranks with bad/young players in the hopes of tanking. But players won't tank. And if they do, I don't want them in my team.
SpectreFire
Member
What the hell is with the Sedins? Are they still in Ottawa or something?
KingHenrik30
Member
I agree with that 100%. Fans can be realistic. At the end of the day, we turn off our tvs and go about our life. But this is life for these guys. And we don't want them to be realistic because we have to. They'll try as hard as they can.
I don't think I've even heard their names today. All I hear is "Vrbata" at least once every minute, he's got 6 shots on Luongo so far. Would not be surprised if one of his next ones goes in...
EDIT: lol Bieksa is bored too.
SpectreFire
Member
That ass grab was the most exciting part of this game.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Calling bullshit on the Flyers being "Cinderella." They had underachieved all year. Them being in the finals was predicted by numerous publications before the season even started that year. I get that their seed was pretty low, but the finals run really could be looked at as reverting to the mean for that team.
SpectreFire
Member
Come on guys. It's a Canucks game against a shitty team. OF COURSE we're going overtime.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Canucks just can't resist overtime.
FTFY.
Might as well spread the points around. Most teams are selfish.
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