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NHL February |OT| FIRE ALL THE THINGS

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Solo said:
You punish the hit, not the result.
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I agree. That's just not how they have been evaluated.

Foreign Jackass said:
They're not supposed to take the end result into account.

Everyone here thinks Marchand should be suspended, except for stupid Bruins fans.

Comparing what Gill does to what Marchand does is retarded.

If Marchand wasn't playing for Boston, he'd be suspended 10 games.

And that's about it.

La Presse asked the NHL and they said nothing will come out of it.
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I wouldn't call other people stupid. Sounds rather silly coming from you.
 
One interesting thing about the Marchand hit on Emelin is that it reveals how truly hollow and full of bullshit the "protection" excuse was. Marchand uses the clip hit in a predatory way and he's done it again.

Also shows how much weight the NHL puts on the result instead of the action. Again.
 
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I wouldn't call other people stupid. Sounds rather silly coming from you.
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Cute. Clever.

And by the way, the guys cheering at Chara because he was shot in the face were a very vocal minority, as usual. I was there, in the stands, and a lot of the guys around me were stupefied by the very stupid cheering.

You see, I can recognize stupid amongst Montreal fans. If I was a Bruins fan, I'd probably try to justify their disgusting behaviour in some way. But I won't. Those guys were assholes, and I was ashamed to sit there in their company.


Socreges said:
One interesting thing about the Marchand hit on Emelin is that it reveals how truly hollow and full of bullshit the "protection" excuse was. Marchand uses the clip hit in a predatory way and he's done it again.

Also shows how much weight the NHL puts on the result instead of the action. Again.
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Exactly. Marchand used that hit multiple times during the game, too. He was only punished once, but there were other instances of borderline hits that were in no way "defending" himself. He's a head hunter.
 
Whoever gets Kubina better hope he plays like he did during last year's playoffs and not like he has most of this season. Otherwise, enjoy your expensive pylon.
 
Foreign Jackass said:
They're not supposed to take the end result into account.

Everyone here thinks Marchand should be suspended, except for stupid Bruins fans.
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More like just Vancouver and Montreal fans, who think diving and figuring skating around the rink instead of playing hockey are perfectly acceptable, so their opinions should not be taken too seriously.
 
Has it been confirmed that Marchand will not be suspended? That's amazing if true. I'd really be interested in the justification. A common thread in these hit reviews has been the history of the player involved. Considering the Salo incident was, what, a month ago? I don't get it.
 
Foreign Jackass said:
Cute. Clever.

And by the way, the guys cheering at Chara because he was shot in the face were a very vocal minority, as usual. I was there, in the stands, and a lot of the guys around me were stupefied by the very stupid cheering.

You see, I can recognize stupid amongst Montreal fans. If I was a Bruins fan, I'd probably try to justify their disgusting behaviour in some way. But I won't. Those guys were assholes, and I was ashamed to sit there in their company.



Exactly. Marchand used that hit multiple times during the game, too. He was only punished once, but there were other instances of borderline hits that were in no way "defending" himself. He's a head hunter.
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It's not really cute or clever. You're the same bigoted individual on numerous times have called me "a fucking stupid idiot" etc. At the same time you have told me Boston and Montreal are separated by thousands of miles, so that is really nice to know. While I have had disagreements with other Montreal fans, you have been simply disrespectful. A term you can easily describe Marchand with or a good portion of the Montreal fans from last night.

Only thing that is cute here is your attempting to White Knight the Habs fans in some backwards comparison to Bruins fans.
 
Socreges said:
One interesting thing about the Marchand hit on Emelin is that it reveals how truly hollow and full of bullshit the "protection" excuse was. Marchand uses the clip hit in a predatory way and he's done it again.

Also shows how much weight the NHL puts on the result instead of the action. Again.
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I'm not sure if that is your actual view, but just going to comment after you posted the McQuaid video. I disagree with comparing incidents and suspensions from one to another. I believe the incident and the individual's history are the two primary factors.

Despite the variety of opinions, I think Shanahan has been doing a great job this season. The NHL has a good opportunity to polish up their rule book in the offseason and give a more balanced approach at these incidents. Whether they do that or not, I have no idea. As a fan of the four major sports here in North America the NHL simply has the hardest job of the bunch.
 
Something Wicked said:
More like just Vancouver and Montreal fans, who think diving and figuring skating around the rink instead of playing hockey are perfectly acceptable, so their opinions should not be taken too seriously.
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Add some Hawks and Sabres fans to those who have posted feeling he should be suspended. Not so sure that silence from the rest is endorsement of the NHL's decision either.

Also, Bruins fans cannot talk about diving as if their own team doesn't do a great deal of it themselves. Thornton's late crumple to the ice last night was a beaut.

Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I'm not sure if that is your actual view, but just going to comment after you posted the McQuaid video. I disagree with comparing incidents and suspensions from one to another. I believe the incident and the individual's history are the two primary factors.
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What are you actually replying to here? I genuinely don't understand what you're saying.
 
Socreges said:
What are you actually replying to here? I genuinely don't understand what you're saying.
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When you posted the McQuaid video in comparison to the Gill incident.

I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so I'm not sure on your opinion on the matter. Just while we're on the subject I'm just stating my opinion that the verdict of one incident should not directly effect the ruling on a completely separate one.
 
Has anybody checked to see if Carey Price has moved from the crease after Seguin froze him up on the shootout goal last night?

New thread title: SUSPEND ALL THE BRUINS!!!

Jackass: Did you call 911 after the Marchand hit?
 
Sanjuro, I'm pretty sure I remember you being much more aggressive about pretty much every disagreement last year. I think that Cup has made you soft. :lol
 
ZeroGravity said:
Whoever gets Kubina better hope he plays like he did during last year's playoffs and not like he has most of this season. Otherwise, enjoy your expensive pylon.
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Preds bloggers/fans are saying we should go after him for depth. Guess not? Maybe Trotz's "defense first" system will do him some wonders.

inb4therearenopredsfans
 
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
When you posted the McQuaid video in comparison to the Gill incident.

I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so I'm not sure on your opinion on the matter. Just while we're on the subject I'm just stating my opinion that the verdict of one incident should not directly effect the ruling on a completely separate one.
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That's naive of you. I'll guarantee you that the NHL absolutely does take into account precedent in terms of what they have and haven't punished before (and for how many games). Unfortunately there is no objective truth that they can go by to measure each incident individually irrespective of what's happened before. Precedent is hugely important in their judgments, just as it would be in law.
 
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
It's not really cute or clever. You're the same bigoted individual on numerous times have called me "a fucking stupid idiot" etc. At the same time you have told me Boston and Montreal are separated by thousands of miles, so that is really nice to know. While I have had disagreements with other Montreal fans, you have been simply disrespectful. A term you can easily describe Marchand with or a good portion of the Montreal fans from last night.

Only thing that is cute here is your attempting to White Knight the Habs fans in some backwards comparison to Bruins fans.
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First, yeah, my "thousands of miles" reply (I had to google it, because for some reason, you tend to go back weeks or months to find something to insult me) was obviously not scientific and more of a metaphoric kind. I'd say you're about 500kms (yeah, I think in kilometers) from me, and I'd say you live in a completely different country, and yeah, I'd say you understand just as much about Quebec culture as I do about Connecticut, which is to say, not a lot. I didn't think I'd have to go back on shit I said weeks ago, what are you, my girlfriend?

But if we're sticking to what has been said here today, yeah, Boston Bruins fans constantly prove (you can look 3-4 posts up) that they're completely deluded about the dirty hits their players has been dishing. It's all the more surprising considering one of your best players' career has been ended by a dirty hit, but hey, I guess winning a Stanley Cup makes you forget about all of that.

And yeah, thank you, other Bruins fan I don't know about, for giving me the opportunity to express, again, how deluded your bunch is. Yesterday, the most physical team on the ice was Montreal. You can say whatever you want, Habs dished the most hits, and your team was intimidated by the freakin HABS, so much so that they came back in the third period just because they applied so much pressure in your end (see Chara's brain fart when he saw Cole coming, for instance).

And the Habs didn't do it with dirty hits dished out by squirrel-faced assholes, they did it with legal hits and intensity.

Now, I'll be the first to admit this isn't typical Habs hockey, but to give the Habs as an example of "wussy hockey" or whatever, when your team basically shat in their pants yesterday because they were afraid of a 25th-place, not-so-physical hockey team (most of all Lucic, who was invisible all night after the hits started coming), is typical Bruins hypocrisy at its best.

You don't need to be like Marchand to be physical. End of the story.
 
Fei said:
Sanjuro, I'm pretty sure I remember you being much more aggressive about pretty much every disagreement last year. I think that Cup has made you soft. :lol
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Nah, I've always been pretty open. It still depends on the subject, argument, and who is fueling it. I get along with a majority of my rival fans online and offline. There are always going to be those select few who don't attempt to enter the grey area.
 
Socreges said:
That's naive of you. I'll guarantee you that the NHL absolutely does take into account precedent in terms of what they have and haven't punished before (and for how many games). Unfortunately there is no objective truth that they can go by to measure each incident individually irrespective of what's happened before. Precedent is hugely important in their judgments, just as it would be in law.
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Oh, I'm not disagreeing that they don't use it currently. I just don't think it should be the clear cut argument. You're always going to have to use reference points. I just disagree with the "This guy got this, why didn't this guy get this!?" mentality.
 
So whom does everyone think is going to win the Rick Nash sweepstakes? As much as I would like to see him on my team, the Sharks, there's no way that Doug Wilson would be willing to part with our potentially young all-star talents like Pavelski or Couture. Maybe Torrey, but no way Columbus takes just him, Stalock/Nitty plus a pick.

In the end, I say that he stays with Columbus. Then again, I said the same thing about Carmelo Anthony last year and look where he ended up....
 
Marvie_3 said:
Who are the Sabers? ;)

I think you have that backwards though. The Blackhawks would be nuts to trade Kane for Miller. Miller + Vanek for Kane + Crawford and then we add/subtract from there. Miller would be an improvement over Crawford/Emery but there's no fucking way Miller is worth Kane straight up.


:*(
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Did Patrick Kane have his own cereal? No? Then GTFO. ;)

I have no idea how to compare the value of a goalie to a forward in a straight up trade. But Miller+Vanek for Kane+Crawford would be highway robbery for the Hawks.
 
Miller for Kane --> Hawks win that trade, hands down. But maybe just because I see Crawford as being a big question mark.

Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Oh, I'm not disagreeing that they don't use it currently. I just don't think it should be the clear cut argument. You're always going to have to use reference points. I just disagree with the "This guy got this, why didn't this guy get this!?" mentality.
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I don't see how you can reconcile the two things. You concede that the NHL compares similar incidents to (help) determine suspensions. But you "disagree with comparing incidents and suspensions from one to another." That makes zero sense to me. By comparing similar incidents, that obviously doesn't therefore mean I'm neglecting the importance of the player's history.
 
Red_taiyaki said:
So whom does everyone think is going to win the Rick Nash sweepstakes? As much as I would like to see him on my team, the Sharks, there's no way that Doug Wilson would be willing to part with our potentially young all-star talents like Pavelski or Couture. Maybe Torrey, but no way Columbus takes just him, Stalock/Nitty plus a pick.

In the end, I say that he stays with Columbus. Then again, I said the same thing about Carmelo Anthony last year and look where he ended up....
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He's 100% gone. It might not be now, It might be at the draft/off season, but he's gone.
 
Fei said:
Did Patrick Kane have his own cereal? No? Then GTFO. ;)

I have no idea how to compare the value of a goalie to a forward in a straight up trade. But Miller+Vanek for Kane+Crawford would be highway robbery for the Hawks.
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Honestly, Kane for Miller straight up would be even I believe (the only major problem is the age issue). Miller + for Kane + gets iffy.
 
Red_taiyaki said:
So whom does everyone think is going to win the Rick Nash sweepstakes? As much as I would like to see him on my team, the Sharks, there's no way that Doug Wilson would be willing to part with our potentially young all-star talents like Pavelski or Couture. Maybe Torrey, but no way Columbus takes just him, Stalock/Nitty plus a pick.

In the end, I say that he stays with Columbus. Then again, I said the same thing about Carmelo Anthony last year and look where he ended up....
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You know DW loves his blockbuster trades and that he isn't afraid to trade away what few pucks and prospects we have.
 
Acid08 said:
You know DW loves his blockbuster trades and that he isn't afraid to trade away what few pucks and prospects we have.
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True. But, I think this year all we'll be doing is shoring up our 3rd and 4th line depth with the likes of a Moen or Gaustad. Especially since Havlat will be coming back soonish.

Then again, years ago I didn't think he'd trade Friesen and out of nowhere...he goes and gets Teemu. So meh, who knows.
 
I would love Nash on the Caps but GMGM never wants to give up any young talents that would be a part of a trade for a player of that quality.
 
Fei said:
Did Patrick Kane have his own cereal? No? Then GTFO. ;)

I have no idea how to compare the value of a goalie to a forward in a straight up trade. But Miller+Vanek for Kane+Crawford would be highway robbery for the Hawks.
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Miller+Vanek's combined cap hit says otherwise. You have to remember that trade frees up $4.5 million in cap space for Buffalo. There would be additional picks/prospects thrown in but that would be the foundation for a deal.
Socreges said:
Miller for Kane --> Hawks win that trade, hands down. But maybe just because I see Crawford as being a big question mark.
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Hands down? No way in hell. You say Crawford is a big question mark but what about the question mark it creates at RW for Chicago. They don't gain any cap room but lose a ~25 goal/~75 point player. Crawford isn't entirely at fault for this season either. Both him and Emery are constantly getting hung out to dry by shitty defense. Would be the same for Miller.

Milly79 said:
Honestly, Kane for Miller straight up would be even I believe (the only major problem is the age issue). Miller + for Kane + gets iffy.
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Nobody cares what you think. ;)
 
Red_taiyaki said:
True. But, I think this year all we'll be doing is shoring up our 3rd and 4th line depth with the likes of a Moen or Gaustad. Especially since Havlat will be coming back soonish.

Then again, years ago I didn't think he'd trade Friesen and out of nowhere...he goes and gets Teemu. So meh, who knows.
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Didn't think he'd would trade for Thornton, woops.

Didn't think he'd trade for Heatley, woops.

I would consider packaging Clowe in a deal, wouldn't be enough though.

I can dream of a Havlat-Couture-Nash line though.
 
Marvie_3 said:
Miller+Vanek's combined cap hit says otherwise. You have to remember that trade frees up $4.5 million in cap space for Buffalo. There would be additional picks/prospects thrown in but that would be the foundation for a deal.
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Well cap space should be eaten up by great players. We're giving up 2 for 1 in that trade scenario, and I 'm really not sure how much better Crawford is than Enroth (who is 4 years younger with a cap hit $2M less).

Edit - It really doesn't matter, because I truly believe Miller wants to be in Buffalo and won't be moved. (Queue the breaking news..)
 
Marvie_3 said:
Hands down? No way in hell. You say Crawford is a big question mark but what about the question mark it creates at RW for Chicago. They don't gain any cap room but lose a ~25 goal/~75 point player. Crawford isn't entirely at fault for this season either. Both him and Emery are constantly getting hung out to dry by shitty defense. Would be the same for Miller.
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"Hands down" might be an exaggeration. No question then.

I just think a goalie like Miller would make a greater positive impact to the Hawks' success (particularly if his early season struggles were an anomaly) than Kane could ever hope to. That said, I don't think the organization would make that trade as they're probably not in any rush to shore up their goaltending and can always try free agency if Crawford doesn't pan out.
 
I don't get why we're even speculating about this. I will buy a fucking lottery ticket if it happens.

Milly79 said:
Honestly, Kane for Miller straight up would be even I believe (the only major problem is the age issue). Miller + for Kane + gets iffy.
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Kane for Miller straight up isn't worth it for the Hawks.
 
I do wonder if Buffalo and others have screwed themselves locking up goaltenders at such high cap hits, though. The value of a goalie has diminished so much in the last few years it's shocking. And that fat Bryz contract isn't going to help push it up anytime soon.
 
Marchand not getting a suspension? Not surprising, the fact that Shanahan takes injury into consideration in regards to injuries is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
 
wsoxfan1214 said:
I don't get why we're even speculating about this.
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Why the fuck not? It's not like there's any games on right now.


Socreges said:
"Hands down" might be an exaggeration. No question then.

I just think a goalie like Miller would make a greater positive impact to the Hawks' success (particularly if his early season struggles were an anomaly) than Kane could ever hope to. That said, I don't think the organization would make that trade as they're probably not in any rush to shore up their goaltending and can always try free agency if Crawford doesn't pan out.
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Until Chicago figures out how to play defense again, it doesn't matter who is in net. Miller would be an improvement but he still wouldn't be enough.
Fei said:
I do wonder if Buffalo and others have screwed themselves locking up goaltenders at such high cap hits, though. The value of a goalie has diminished so much in the last few years it's shocking. And that fat Bryz contract isn't going to help push it up anytime soon.
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Not really. Chicago was paying Huet $5M+ to sit on the bench in the playoffs. As long as that contract isn't preventing you from icing the depth you need to win, there's nothing wrong with a high priced goalie.
 
Fei said:
I do wonder if Buffalo and others have screwed themselves locking up goaltenders at such high cap hits, though. The value of a goalie has diminished so much in the last few years it's shocking. And that fat Bryz contract isn't going to help push it up anytime soon.
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large-6.jpg


I keep seeing this "Goalie value is down". Really? Good, I hope every team in the NHL follows that thinking. I'll pump money into goaltending and shut everyone else down.
 
Marvie_3 said:
Who are the Sabers? ;)

I think you have that backwards though. The Blackhawks would be nuts to trade Kane for Miller. Miller + Vanek for Kane + Crawford and then we add/subtract from there. Miller would be an improvement over Crawford/Emery but there's no fucking way Miller is worth Kane straight up.


:*(
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First... I hate your new avatar because you're more difficult to pick out when scanning posts.

Second... the 'hawks would fleece Buffalo if it was Miller + Van for Kane + Crawford. I'd say Miller + Stafford = Kane, or even Vanek for Kane would be an even trade. But I don't think Van is on the market... he's been one of our best two forwards this year, and for the last couple years.
 
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