Rickenslacker
Banned
Niche titles are definitely important to me. Wild Guns Reloaded is more of a PS4 system seller to me than anything else on it right now.
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Niche games: How much do they matter?
- Thread starter Mass Effect
- Start date
TheDarkKnight774
Member
They matter a lot. It's like indie games. One single game might not move the needle but once you build up a large number of them it all adds up and becomes a big deal.
They definitely matter to me. A lot of those niche games are the reason I'm so in on Playstation. The diversity in the library is a huge selling point for more people than some might think. Individually those games won't sell as much as many of the huge AAA games, but they collectively attract a larger audience to the console. I wouldn't call that a small deal at all.
Ask the OP bawling over the Last Guardian if they matter. Not every title will hit with everyone but experiences like that add up over time. It helps to build a console identity and hardcore fan base. Look at PSX. Bringing PaRappa, Loco Roco, Patapon, Wipeout, Crash remake, whatever Tim Shaffer game they feel like remastering this year, etc. don't matter too much individually but together they create a strong sense of brand loyalty aka the PlayStation nation.
Orochinagis
Member
Like 80% of that list are not niche at all
Mass Effect
Member
oh god damn it.
those games aren't niche, it's just a general list of upcoming PS4 games I copied from someone else.
here, let me edit this
GHG
Gold Member
People also need to realise that some of these "niche" games have the potential to become big heavy hitting franchises in the long run.
There was a time when games like resident evil and MGS would have been considered "niche" but look at what those franchises have grown into in the long run. To deprive yourself of niche games from a console makers standpoint is to deprive yourself of potential. There is nothing to be gained in a platform missing out on games like that and potentially miss out on the birth of big new franchises. Ideally you don't want games like that to become synonymous with another console's/platform's brand but that is precisely what's happening.
There was a time when games like resident evil and MGS would have been considered "niche" but look at what those franchises have grown into in the long run. To deprive yourself of niche games from a console makers standpoint is to deprive yourself of potential. There is nothing to be gained in a platform missing out on games like that and potentially miss out on the birth of big new franchises. Ideally you don't want games like that to become synonymous with another console's/platform's brand but that is precisely what's happening.
They generate strong sales relative to the staff, overall development scope, and marketing budget of the games. On top of being great from a creative standpoint and having strong core fanbases, they aren't a boom or bust situation. If one underperforms, it won't always mean the total end of that studio or publisher.
If a game like Red Dead 2 was to be trash and flop from a sales perspective, a lot of people would lose their jobs right away. Not saying that doesn't happen on the niche side, but it is far lower stakes when you work in the mid-tier type of space.
If a game like Red Dead 2 was to be trash and flop from a sales perspective, a lot of people would lose their jobs right away. Not saying that doesn't happen on the niche side, but it is far lower stakes when you work in the mid-tier type of space.
But it will still be pointed to as a non AAA western game and thus doesn't matter sales wise or mindshare wise. So it counts. I've heard that argument made only a day or two ago
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Which is funny when you consider it sells significantly better over in the west
They matter. Not only do they matter to a good portion of folks who are early adopters, people that often end up setting up the initial sales momentum for consoles. They can matter to "casuals" as well (not to the same extent of course). One of these folks may be thinking about picking up a system for a COD or Madden or Fifa, but at the same time, they could be interested in Nier, Nioh, Yakuza or one of the many other niche titles that comes out for the system. And while those game wouldn't technically be considered a "system seller" as these people mainly got the system to play entries from wide appeal franchises, it helps bit by bit. The more variety of these types of titles there are, the more number of people that get influenced by this library. And these small amounts start adding up over time.
Also, I remember a time when MGS was considered niche, and look how that series turned out.
Also, I remember a time when MGS was considered niche, and look how that series turned out.
It's insane how this forum has adopted not only corporate gobbledygook, but also corporate mindset. Go in any console wars thread and you'll see people saying shit like "Why did [company] greenlight [vaguely risky game], it will not sell a lot" as if this should matter to any able-brained person.
Iva Demilcol
Member
They made me buy a PS4, so that's it.
I think what we have to understand is that for people who actually literally mean what they say when they make the argument that these games don't matter or aren't important to anything, they really mean that they don't matter to them personally and therefore might as well not exist.
It was never a legitimate argument to begin with.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Preach
To answer your larger question, yes they do matter when grouped. Most of those that you show are big in Japan, and are at least recognizable in the west, and when one console can corner the market on them, it matters. Getting one or two of those wouldn't shift much, but getting them all, and many as exclusives does matter.
One group of games that I would add, is the AAA adventure games that Sony puts out. Individually, Heavy Rain, Until Dawn, and Detroit: Become Human would be an interesting spectacle, but not shift much in terms of the market place. But together, Sony has created a sizable fan base for large budget adventure games. Sony took a niche genre with a niche audience, and managed to take it mainstream.
One group of games that I would add, is the AAA adventure games that Sony puts out. Individually, Heavy Rain, Until Dawn, and Detroit: Become Human would be an interesting spectacle, but not shift much in terms of the market place. But together, Sony has created a sizable fan base for large budget adventure games. Sony took a niche genre with a niche audience, and managed to take it mainstream.
Even popular games like Souls, hell Bloodborne despite the series selling millions before it was release was also called a niche game that generally didn't matter and didn't belong in the running as the other games running for GOTY
Again, i feel like the argument is not legitimate to begin with, because it conveniently just dismisses everything not a particular brand of game.
If it doesn't cost a certain amount to make, if its not considered "AAA", if its not a western game(or any combination of these 3 things), then generally speaking you will get these arguments.
Again, i feel like the argument is not legitimate to begin with, because it conveniently just dismisses everything not a particular brand of game.
If it doesn't cost a certain amount to make, if its not considered "AAA", if its not a western game(or any combination of these 3 things), then generally speaking you will get these arguments.
GHG
Gold Member
You also read shit like "Recore and No Mans Sky didn't review/sell as well as expected, they should have been cancelled".
Why would you want less gaming options? Should we go ahead and cancel the release of any game that gets less than a 70 metacritic? Every single game develops a fan base out there that's why as much variety as possible is for the best. There is no telling what each individual will like, everybody likes different things. Try telling the people that actually enjoyed their time with games like Recore/NMS that those games shouldn't have existed. It's nonsense.
More games also need to get second chances. Allow developers to build on what they learnt from their first rodeo. There's nothing to lose from a consumer standpoint, we only stand to gain if the game turns out to be better than the first and as such we owe it to ourselves to be more open minded rather than shit on anything that doesn't happen to be critically acclaimed.
The Salt Life
Banned
They mattered between the ages of 6-26, I'm 37 now though so I really don't care for them anymore. (Mostly talking about JRPG's, I disagree with the first post that had Samurai showdown and King of Fighters listed, I don't consider them niche because I'm from the arcade era and those SNK games were pretty damn popular before MK came around and knocked it out the #2 spot)
Would I like some of the games that ps4 has on Xbox one? Sure, but I don't think Microsoft should lose out on money to do it.
Do Niche games matter, sure they will cater to someone. For Microsoft, the question is, do enough someone's buy said games in that eco system in order for it to be worth it? No
I mean this is why we all don't just own one console in w cycle, options.
When I pick up ps4 again, it will have weird niche $60 games my Xbox won't.
Would I like some of the games that ps4 has on Xbox one? Sure, but I don't think Microsoft should lose out on money to do it.
Do Niche games matter, sure they will cater to someone. For Microsoft, the question is, do enough someone's buy said games in that eco system in order for it to be worth it? No
I mean this is why we all don't just own one console in w cycle, options.
When I pick up ps4 again, it will have weird niche $60 games my Xbox won't.
Pellegri Testament
Member
For me, niche games have primarily been what I have played/enjoyed over the last decade or so, so ofcourse they matter to me. They're something that I have learned to temper my expectations on and am regularly surprised at just how good certain titles are, even though they're rarely talked about outside of small circles. That's a far cry from how I viewed most first party/AAA games, where I'd always get caught up in the hype train and would constantly be let down when the game that so many people would lose their shit over before release, ended up being no better than many of the smaller games I would play.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Realistically, if all we had were the REALLY big games...I wouldn't play video games.
- Call of Duty
- Battlefield
- NBA 2K
- FIFA
- Madden
That list plus whatever the AAA du jour is? I hate most of them. Not to be contrary, I'm just NOT a fan. Periodically I get hype for big stuff--Tomb Raider, Watch_Dogs 2, Horizon, but usually I'm all about smaller titles. I popped for Xenoblade 2 and if the Switch gets a Fire Emblem proper I might be getting a Switch.
In short: those games absolutely matter to me.
- Call of Duty
- Battlefield
- NBA 2K
- FIFA
- Madden
That list plus whatever the AAA du jour is? I hate most of them. Not to be contrary, I'm just NOT a fan. Periodically I get hype for big stuff--Tomb Raider, Watch_Dogs 2, Horizon, but usually I'm all about smaller titles. I popped for Xenoblade 2 and if the Switch gets a Fire Emblem proper I might be getting a Switch.
In short: those games absolutely matter to me.
Do you think these people want the games they are questioning the existence of?
Also, ITT: "I only play niche games! <lists games that sell hundreds of thousands or millions of copies>
Lil'DigiOp
Member
I like playing different games.
I mean damn, does everything need to be Military Shooter 1, Medieval White Man Fantasy, and Space Cowboy with Aliens?
Oh I forgot Half Ass Sports Game 2K99
Western shit get monotone really quickly.
I mean damn, does everything need to be Military Shooter 1, Medieval White Man Fantasy, and Space Cowboy with Aliens?
Oh I forgot Half Ass Sports Game 2K99
Western shit get monotone really quickly.
Yes, but I will only buy and play RDR2 once, so I need most of those other games to enjoy this medium. I will like most of those more than RDR2 too
Definitely not. They think those games should not exist in the first place. Cause they are shortsighted as fuck.
We recently had a thread with a list of like 15 to 20 niche games, and the relevance to these games to the overall vibrancy of a console's library. and in general, they were all dismissed one by one as games no one ever heard of and therefore irrelevant.
I think this kind of mindset crosses a line from legitimate disinterest to pure short sightedness on the part of parts of the gaming fandom
Unknown?
Member
While a single game on that list may not matter much, those games combined DO matter. I've always said a handful of niche games is as important as one AAA game for selling hardware. It also gives mindshare. People see that there are far more games releasing for one system so they assume it is better even if they have no interest in those games.
Damn, that's pretty sad to read. To completely dismiss and wish a product never existed shows pure and utter shortsightedness. It boggles the mind.
Like anyone else, including you, they are self-interested.
Also, asking "Why did <company> greenlight <game>?" isn't corporate gobbledygook, it's a legitimate discussion point. It's basically the same question that this thread is about. What determines the overall impact of niche games? Does library breadth generate profits equal to or greater than the investment in the product themselves? What amount of overall spend should be allocated to new and/or risky IP? How many chances should a series be given to find an audience? Should other avenues of revenue be incentivized in niche titles due to higher audience investment? Or should they be left alone to incentivize good will? Should niche ideas in competitive markets be heavily funded to increase competitiveness or should less intensive art styles or assets be looked at? How much marketing should be allocated to niche ideas? Can they catch on or should they rely on word of mouth.
This is stuff that actually matters. You can say that as a consumer that it doesn't, but it sure can. Because stuff that doesn't make money doesn't get made. Money can equal time which can equal higher quality. If you really don't think so, you should talk to some long term Sega fans.
Also, do you think that good work deserves to be adequately compensated? What amount should platform holders be held responsible for promoting their niches?
The business of art is art.
Pretty sure that was the thread with people saying "lol never heard of that" and then going back to play FIFA, right?
eyeball_kid
Member
Niche games on consoles are extremely important to me. Would I feel as fondly for the PS1 without PaRappa or Bushido Blade? Or the DS if not for Electroplankton or Meteos?
The answer for me is "No" because the PS3 had a distinct lack of oddball niche titles and I feel rather indifferent about it, even though it (eventually) had some great games.
I think niche games are important for a company's brand because experimentation and pure creativity get associated with that brand when those titles are there.
Then again, some games which are seen as niche today would've been huge mainstream games in the 80's or 90's. In a different universe where Nioh or Nier came out for the NES or SNES, they probably would've had big previews in Nintendo Power.
The answer for me is "No" because the PS3 had a distinct lack of oddball niche titles and I feel rather indifferent about it, even though it (eventually) had some great games.
I think niche games are important for a company's brand because experimentation and pure creativity get associated with that brand when those titles are there.
Then again, some games which are seen as niche today would've been huge mainstream games in the 80's or 90's. In a different universe where Nioh or Nier came out for the NES or SNES, they probably would've had big previews in Nintendo Power.
Mass Effect
Member
I feel like, for the most part, this is the very definition of niche these days.
Also, check your PMs.
Hence why I made this thread.
You know the thread i'm referring to right?
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
They matter a lot to me! The first 6 on your list are on my buy list if I haven't bought them already. Hell, I bought a PS4 because of Guilty Gear Xrd.
Mass Effect
Member
Niche is a matter of perspective and context.
Generally people will talk about niche games in a budgetary sense. Like, if a platform holder will fund a $30 million dollar game that sells 140k copies, yeah, that was probably money better spent elsewhere. If a company spends $2 million on a game that sells 100k copies, that was a great investment. When games cost $50,000 to make, but nothing sold more than 1 million copies, was everything niche?
People act in their own self interest. Companies have X budget to spend. They want that money spent on games they want. Call of Madden player wants exclusive map packs. Somebody else wants Crystal Bearers Duodenum. Which one should platform holder X spend money on? Because if they spend a lot of money on Duodenum over and over, but it doesn't recoup costs, there may not be a company left to fund Duodenum again (see: Sega).
If a company can risk it, as in they assume they will probably lose money on a project but they have enough off the backs of other projects to make up for it, then taking a risk with a niche title can't do anything but help.
Now obviously if they cant take the risks yet do so it could end up bad for everyone.
Now obviously if they cant take the risks yet do so it could end up bad for everyone.