Audioboxer
Member
It's more a case of civic nationalism, but of course, you'll find some football hooligans and other asshats spouting nonsense.
To no ones surprise Scottish Greens are on board
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Nicola Sturgeon Brexit statement : Independence Referendum Mk II
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It's more a case of civic nationalism, but of course, you'll find some football hooligans and other asshats spouting nonsense.
To no ones surprise Scottish Greens are on board
nelsonroyale
Member
This isn't accurate. This is a rather poor comparison in real terms. The SNP are actively competing against Labour - they are an opposing party within our 'competitive' political landscape. The Tories are careful to say they don't oppose the NHS, which they effectively do on many counts. Of course the SNP sees benefits in terms of Scottish Independence of a weak Labour. Reflecting on that, I do agree there is some doublespeak going on, and that both express sympathy with certain positions even while actively seeking to undermine them.
On the other hand, the weakness of the left is a much bigger issue than just the rise of the SNP. It is to do with a latent conservatism in the general populace that has re-established itself through over half a century of apparent internal stability (from real military conflict) in parallel with gains in real living conditions, the dissolution of place and work-based (guilds, etc.) communities, the rise of the core family unit, a retreat from the complexity of the real world into an increasingly technologically mediated world, etc. The public has become complacent. That doesn't mean I am putting all or even most of the blame on the public for not demanding more social and economic change during a time of such stability though. Ignorance has been fuelled by much of the press and the poor job our education system has done teaching real critical thinking (which I suppose is quite a dangerous thing).
I have to say Scotland, go for it. Save yourselves.
Save yourselves from an apparently perpetual reign of knuckle-dragging, proudly moronic, bigoted, short-sighted, imperialistic, lying, anti-intellectual, xenophobic cunts. Just a shame we can't do the same in London.
Unless... #londyref?
Save yourselves from an apparently perpetual reign of knuckle-dragging, proudly moronic, bigoted, short-sighted, imperialistic, lying, anti-intellectual, xenophobic cunts. Just a shame we can't do the same in London.
Unless... #londyref?
345triangle
Member
i'm english and for reasons of unity would rather scotland stay, but for their sake i hope they manage to get out. i wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to take whatever drastic measures possible to avoid potential decades of tory rule, and it's about the only conceivable way anyone could strike back against may at this point.
scotland deserves better than the toxic climate south of the border. it's a leap into the unknown, sure, but the UK isn't exactly the picture of stability the no campaign painted it as in 2014.
scotland deserves better than the toxic climate south of the border. it's a leap into the unknown, sure, but the UK isn't exactly the picture of stability the no campaign painted it as in 2014.
nelsonroyale
Member
It may also free English progressives from having to side with the Tories on this issue...
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
everybody calling this "Scexit" just stop please? lol brexit is bad enough. I prefer "Scoot". Scotland Oot! Also scoot definition:
go or leave somewhere quickly. "they scooted off on their bikes"
synonyms: dash, dart, run, sprint, race, rush, hurry, hasten, hare, hurtle, bolt, shoot, charge, career, speed, fly, whizz, zoom
go or leave somewhere quickly. "they scooted off on their bikes"
synonyms: dash, dart, run, sprint, race, rush, hurry, hasten, hare, hurtle, bolt, shoot, charge, career, speed, fly, whizz, zoom
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah, the brain just reads that as Sexit. Sex with a Scottish person isn't always a bad thing, but 60% of the time, all the time, it is a bad thing lol.
345triangle
Member
yeah, a not inconsiderable bonus. we technically sided with the tories on the brexit vote and look where we are now!
That's really sad.
I'm really surprised at the amount of people saying she should be killed.
Seems like a certain segment of the population sees Jo Cox's murder as legitimate political participation.
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
My dream world where we get Northern Ireland, Scotland, and all the big cities that votes to remain together and stay in as one country and let the rest go be a backwards ass hellhole looks so nice
already been talk of northern ireland/scotland joining up. i believe it started after the EU vote. it's being called either Celtic Union or Union of Craic. might be worth reading this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Celticism
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I like this!
It's good that we've got the right priorities when it comes to these critical issues.
If the choice is tie yourself to a rock and go for a swim or be lashed to the good ship England as it's captain is heading full speed into an iceberg then you may as well go on your own terms.
Godspeed.
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
who we talking about? Sturgeon or May...or both?
Dude of course they do, another leftist traitor dead in the ground where they belong. People actually think like this thanks to years of indoctrination
StrawberryJam
Member
Fucking DO IT NICOLA. I want off this Britain shitshow, yesterday please.
Audioboxer
Member
Most are probably getting overly emotional and spouting shite (bantz bro), as per a lot of tweets getting deleted once they go viral.
The rest, probably sheer hatred. I don't think anyone will actually want to hurt her, at least I hope, but political death threats get taken seriously so some of those accounts can probably expect investigation.
As always, people lose their minds on social media. Anger, passion and some general mockery can be fine, threats of violence, not so much. Especially aimed at someone who may be divisive, but she's not a terrible person on the humane front.
Was May ever politically alive?
Audioboxer
Member
lol, but yeah, Sturgeons leadership is over if she loses. Like Salmond. She's starting from a better place than he did though, and is universally better liked.
In Service
Member
The EU have waded in unsurprisingly.
Genuinely interested to see what happens in this vein. How does Nicola spin it?
1. We accept we wont be automatically in EU but we'll buy into the Single Market?
2. We think the EU are wrong and we can because (legal reasons blah)?
3. Don't worry, we'll get in eventually and then it will be alright?
etc, etc.
If hard Brexit is the reason that Nicola is all for pulling the plug (as per her speach) how does she avoid hard Scexit/Scoot?
Genuinely interested to see what happens in this vein. How does Nicola spin it?
1. We accept we wont be automatically in EU but we'll buy into the Single Market?
2. We think the EU are wrong and we can because (legal reasons blah)?
3. Don't worry, we'll get in eventually and then it will be alright?
etc, etc.
If hard Brexit is the reason that Nicola is all for pulling the plug (as per her speach) how does she avoid hard Scexit/Scoot?
I liked Scoot better than Scexit - credit to the poster above
That seems like an interesting idea, don't see it ever happening but interesting nonetheless.
What guarantees that Scotland can actually get a good bilateral trade deal with rUK? Is it actually in the interest of rUK for such a deal to exists? Because if so, I don't see any negative side of this. Have the same trade status and taking back control. The dream of Brexit becoming true up north.
the feel of independence.
scotcheggz
Member
It's funny* reading all the leave voters doubling down in their comments online with comments to the effect of "fine just let them go if they love the EU so much". They STILL believe we're all sailing through the clouds on a golden boat to brexit Wonderland.
*depressing af
*depressing af
Her rationale is to get it over with before the deal is over. That way, Scotland would stay part of the EU.
I dont think she wants to be running a post Brexit Scotland without independence and I can't blame her. The Tories are going to gut the country and no amount of Devolution will prevent that.
Not happening. Another thing people keep telling them that they conveniently ignore because it makes the sell harder
In Service
Member
But that's not how the EU think it works. The Barroso Doctrine states that if one part of a member state leaves (votes for independence) then it needs to apply the same as any outside applicant.
I would love to hear her talk more about this as I can't see it happening. Catalonia is only part of the background to the Doctrine but it's an interesting problem she has.
DarthMasta
Member
The fact that Britain left the EU is now trying to be truly global with free trade for all?
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
From the article:
Could it be argued that this isn't really the case though?
Edit: I mean this is Scotland seeking independence from a country because of that country leaving the EU.
Audioboxer
Member
Not necessarily true, she's already had to clarify that as the BBC have already started with their "sources tell us x..."
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/841301283730554885
One good thing about social media being as popular as it is now, MPs can almost instantly crush made up or exaggerated stories.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Same old twisting of facts, different referendum. Aren't referendums great fun!
These are uncharted waters. UK will no longer be a full member of EU at that point, but rather a member engaged in the article 50 process. In the end, EU can decide that part of the process is to keep Scotland in, as long as there is will for this at the EU level. Which is not clear. Could be also a strong bargaining chip for EU.
In Service
Member
That's what I'm waiting to hear. As a lawyer (thankfully not a constitutional one!) I just haven't heard anything from the EU that shows sympathy towards Scotland's position.
There are so many EU members that harbor fears of losing their own outlying regions that makes any change to the Doctrine difficult.
Charles Brandon
Member
The whole thing is a nonsense. If Scotland votes out to become part of the EU in the wake of a hard brexit then it will lose free trade and freedom of movement with the UK, a situation that would be disastrous for the Scots, given that England takes 63% of their exports.
If there is no hard brexit, then the impetuous for the vote is gone.
I sympathise with the Scots but it is hard to see how voting for independence now is anything other than making a bad situation even worse. If anything the case is much weaker than it was previously. The prospect of a hard border between England and Scotland being something that is good for Scotland is ridiculous.
If there is no hard brexit, then the impetuous for the vote is gone.
I sympathise with the Scots but it is hard to see how voting for independence now is anything other than making a bad situation even worse. If anything the case is much weaker than it was previously. The prospect of a hard border between England and Scotland being something that is good for Scotland is ridiculous.
In Service
Member
That's the truth.
The vote is not now, but in 2018-2019. At that point the fate of Brexit will be known.
Stallion Dan
Member
Scotland already knew was gonna be a EU referendum last time they voted, they voted stay as UK knowing UK could leave EU. I see no reason for a second vote, if EU was the priority they should have voted leave then. Trying have their cake and eat it too.
Audioboxer
Member
And "Sky Sources" are going to try and top BBC
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/841310577897164801
Because of course, she's a woman and that pesky Alex Salmond clearly bullies her? It's not that she is pro-independence, and a strong and well respected woman in her own party? It's not that she the day of Brexit went and discussed with the EU, and the attempted to with May, every opportunity to stay in the single market and avoid a hard Brexit, BEFORE going to independence? Nah. It's that Salmond bullying poor Nicola.
Here we go again guys, get used to BBC/Sky "sources" giving everyone the hot takes. The Daily Mail will probably do the "Most dangerous woman in Britain 2.0".
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Re: EU and negotiations.
I'm dead sure that the EU won't touch Scotland with a laser pointer during negotiations with the UK unless to say that there's nothing to say until the UK leaves the EU.
I'm dead sure that the EU won't touch Scotland with a laser pointer during negotiations with the UK unless to say that there's nothing to say until the UK leaves the EU.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
That's generous, we don't even know if we're on course to trigger article 50 yet.
Another two years probably with a different leader.
Voting for independence is just us 'taking back control', you'd think the English would be sympathetic to that argument since in relation to the EU it causes you to lose all sense. It's our turn now, hold ma drink.
nelsonroyale
Member
Pan-Celtic-Nordic Union I should say!
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