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[hariseldon]

C'mon. Like, you can have an in-universe attempt at an explanation all you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that she's designed as a fetish object because that's what cynically sells. You can make or claim to be making all the meta-commentary on the subject you want, but the fact - at least for me - is that, in the end, the high concepts and legitimate artistic messages are diluted and cheapened by the fact that the player avatar is designed to be superficial eye candy with tits and panties prominently on display while the game tries to play seriously and asks you to take it as so.

Your argument is perilously close to that made when people say that women who dress 'too sexy' are 'asking for it'.

 

[strange headache]

Spoiler: Are you sure you want to be spoiled?

Spoiler: Are games silly little things?

Spoiler: Are you sure you wish to continue

Another beautiful example of why Nier's story can only be told in the form of a video game. You'd find me hard pressed to come up with any other game that presents its story as an integral part of games as a medium. A perfect moment in video game history right there.

Yeah, I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box.

I appreciate you taking our replies seriously and realizing that your comments might rub people the wrong way. Nier's story is inherently tied to the medium so it's kinda hard to express in words what you ultimately need to experience for yourself. I only bought the game because people's reactions were so intriguing that I wanted to see for myself what the fuzz is about. I was not disappointed. Sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith without fully knowing what awaits you from the beginning.

Nothing, I guess, if you're not also trying to tell a story that wants to be taken seriously while simultaneously trying to reap the benefits of ultimately toothless commentary on the meta nature of your character's design aesthetics.

Judging by the game's thematic complexity and the creator's public appearances, I highly doubt Yoko Taro is overly concerned with other people's commentary. That guy is an artist at heart and I'm so glad he got to realize his vision without people pissing in his cornflakes.

People always complain that titillating games lack depth and complexity, but when a game comes along that manages to perfectly balance both, they still complain. If you can't enjoy the depths this game has to offer because of the sexy protagonist, that's your personal problem and your personal loss.

 

[hariseldon]

Sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith without fully knowing what awaits you from the beginning.

Absolutely this. I've been making it a bit of a mission lately to try games in genres that I've typically avoided, as I felt my gaming had got stale. I'm not regretting that choice.

 

[Danjin44]

Another beautiful example of why Nier's story can only be told in the form of a video game. You'd find me hard pressed to come up with any other game that presents its story as an integral part of games as a medium. A perfect moment in video game history right there.

Yoko Taro is one of few people who actually takes full advantage of games as a medium to tell his stories and his stories cannot work in movies or anime, only in video game.

 

[ROMhack]

I think you guys spend too much time on the internet.

 

[Orpheum]

Guess i have to go back and play it. Quit after a couple of hours

 

[MayauMiao]

OP, it blows my mind why anyone playing SCVI would find 2B a cheap fanservice seeing how the game they play is full of fanservice.

They ought to know better.

 

[ROMhack]

Guess i have to go back and play it. Quit after a couple of hours

For NieR or SCVI? If former, NieR took me about 20 hours to get into. I'm sceptical as hell when people say things like that to me but it really did. 9S's storyline is where things start to get interesting.

If you're going to play again then I'd honestly suggest blowing through the whole thing quickly. Ignore the side missions as doing them almost made me give up.

 

[SoulUnison]

Your argument is perilously close to that made when people say that women who dress 'too sexy' are 'asking for it'.

It absolutely isn't and this is a disgusting attempt to try to shame me into abandoning my opinion by completely misrepresenting it.
Like, wow. I sort of can't even believe that you would think that'd be a good parallel to try to draw.

I'm saying that if you're designing a line of androids to protect the Earth and hopefully pave the way for humanity to re-emerge, why on Earth would you design them as fetish cosplay maids? That can't possibly be practical or the most efficient design, so it's hard to take the central conflict seriously when the creators of the YORHA androids apparently considered "having visible panties" to be of similar import to "saving the human race." It's laughable.

Then that wraps around to the meta-argument, because when people say "If you can't enjoy the narrative/soundtrack/gameplay as much because of the cheap titillation, that's your problem," and, you know what? You're technically right, but it deserves the question, why are you considering tits and panty shots to be of equal import to excellent narrative, soundtrack or gameplay? That's weird.

If you really cared so much about the transcendental gameplay experience and the longevity of the series you'd be willing to sacrifice the cheap, pointless sex appeal for the sake of the actual "art" getting to continue forward. I played the game through to the end of the "final" route and thought it fantastic, but I still won't buy a sequel, at least without deep discounts, unless the character design grows up alongside the rest of the game. There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

So, in the end, it feels like you're hiding behind what great "art" the game is, but you're really just here for the sexy maid cosplay, because why would you be so fervently unwilling to give that up even when it means that series you love so much might be able to reach a wider audience and garner even more critical acclaim?

 

[Geki-D]

The first NieR had the same cult following, and this was the main character.

Yeah but in an alternate dimension it's this guy:

 

[hariseldon]

It absolutely isn't and this is a disgusting attempt to try to shame me into abandoning my opinion by completely misrepresenting it.
Like, wow. I sort of can't even believe that you would think that'd be a good parallel to try to draw.

I'm saying that if you're designing a line of androids to protect the Earth and hopefully pave the way for humanity to re-emerge, why on Earth would you design them as fetish cosplay maids? That can't possibly be practical or the most efficient design, so it's hard to take the central conflict seriously when the creators of the YORHA androids apparently considered "having visible panties" to be of similar import to "saving the human race." It's laughable.

Then that wraps around to the meta-argument, because when people say "If you can't enjoy the narrative/soundtrack/gameplay as much because of the cheap titillation, that's your problem," and, you know what? You're technically right, but it deserves the question, why are you considering tits and panty shots to be of equal import to excellent narrative, soundtrack or gameplay? That's weird.

If you really cared so much about the transcendental gameplay experience and the longevity of the series you'd be willing to sacrifice the cheap, pointless sex appeal for the sake of the actual "art" getting to continue forward. I played the game through to the end of the "final" route and thought it fantastic, but I still won't buy a sequel, at least without deep discounts, unless the character design grows up alongside the rest of the game. There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

So, in the end, it feels like you're hiding behind what great "art" the game is, but you're really just here for the sexy maid cosplay, because why would you be so fervently unwilling to give that up even when it means that series you love so much might be able to reach a wider audience and garner even more critical acclaim?

You're saying we can't take art seriously if it's sexy. That's a pretty cheap message, and I reckon by calling you out I've touched a nerve. You consider 2B's clothes shameful, you consider that any flesh exposed is shameful, that women should cover themselves lest any man lust after them. We don't want women driving men to lust after all, that's how rape happens. That's what you're thinking, isn't it. That's the trouble with puritans, always projecting their wank fantasies onto others.

 

[SoulUnison]

You're saying we can't take art seriously if it's sexy. That's a pretty cheap message, and I reckon by calling you out I've touched a nerve. You consider 2B's clothes shameful, you consider that any flesh exposed is shameful, that women should cover themselves lest any man lust after them. We don't want women driving men to lust after all, that's how rape happens. That's what you're thinking, isn't it. That's the trouble with puritans, always projecting their wank fantasies onto others.

You're drawing false equivalences. "Any flesh exposed" is not "shameful," and you're making some pretty wild (and completely off-base) assumptions about my sexuality and ideology. You didn't touch a nerve by "calling me out" on my position in Thoughtless Titillation V. Legitimate Art, you literally just tried to tell me my opinion was a step away from telling rape victims they deserved it. That was a disgusting thing to say and you're trying to just sweep past it like you never said it. Gross.

There's very little of what you're saying that isn't just (inaccurate) projection.
I'm not even heterosexual, so the very core of your argument goes instantly out the window.

 

[Danjin44]

@ SoulUnison : Look if you feel you cant take story and characters seriously because sexy design then it fine, thats your taste but you cant really blame the game for that. there are lot of people out there like myself who can take the story very seriously even with sexy design. Let put it this way, for me NieR Automata hit much more emotionally than both TLOU of God of War put together and I love both of those games.


My own personal issue is I cant take the story seriously when they put celebrities faces for the characters. Not lot of people have issue with this and it not game's fault, it just my personal issue, this why I cant get excited for Death Stranding.

 

[Javthusiast]

More 2B exposure = new people getting converted to the religion of the thicc = more automata sales.

 

[Durask]

I'm saying that if you're designing a line of androids to protect the Earth and hopefully pave the way for humanity to re-emerge, why on Earth would you design them as fetish cosplay maids? That can't possibly be practical or the most efficient design, so it's hard to take the central conflict seriously when the creators of the YORHA androids apparently considered "having visible panties" to be of similar import to "saving the human race." It's laughable.

From a realism standpoint the game is ridiculous because you are playing

1. a humanoid character
2. that uses swords for combat

It is ridiculous whether you dress said robot into a fetish-y outfit or into a t-shirt and jeans and sneakers.

 

[Isa]

Then that wraps around to the meta-argument, because when people say "If you can't enjoy the narrative/soundtrack/gameplay as much because of the cheap titillation, that's your problem," and, you know what? You're technically right, but it deserves the question, why are you considering tits and panty shots to be of equal import to excellent narrative, soundtrack or gameplay? That's weird.

If you really cared so much about the transcendental gameplay experience and the longevity of the series you'd be willing to sacrifice the cheap, pointless sex appeal for the sake of the actual "art" getting to continue forward. I played the game through to the end of the "final" route and thought it fantastic, but I still won't buy a sequel, at least without deep discounts, unless the character design grows up alongside the rest of the game. There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

So, in the end, it feels like you're hiding behind what great "art" the game is, but you're really just here for the sexy maid cosplay, because why would you be so fervently unwilling to give that up even when it means that series you love so much might be able to reach a wider audience and garner even more critical acclaim?

I'd say the T&A are of equal import because its what the artist(s) put there and I accept that fact. I'd hate to see them try to make some homogenized one-size-fits-all pc product, it would diminish the value and sincerity of the game and their vision thereof. I'd rather see the series, which is already fairly impressive in its length, die in respect to itself and the artists than to try and be all-inclusive for some petty acclaim. It already earned it and then some.

I'm the same way with my metal, I love the underground masterpieces that were made with love and passion knowing that nearly all of these artists will never be able to earn even 1/1,000,000th of the income that mainstream artist see. It touched the lives a few lucky souls who've taken the time to dig deeper, and found these diamonds in the rough. To try and reformat that to fit some notion of mandated success and acclaim diminishes the artist, as can be seen by those who flock to monetary trends.

Taro's next game is among my most anticipated announcements in gaming right now. Moreso than next-gen console reveals and dates.

 

[Danjin44]

Taro's next game is among my most anticipated announcements in gaming right now. Moreso than next-gen console reveals and dates.

 

[Durask]

There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

Who are these people? Do you have any numbers? A Gallup poll or something?

Fact is, for a niche Japanese game it has insane sales numbers - 3.5 million worldwide.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

Well, I guess that is just too bad for them. They are missing out because they are prudes.

So, in the end, it feels like you're hiding behind what great "art" the game is, but you're really just here for the sexy maid cosplay, because why would you be so fervently unwilling to give that up even when it means that series you love so much might be able to reach a wider audience and garner even more critical acclaim?

I don't want the game to reach a wider audience if it means making a game for the lowest common denominator. So yeah, fuck people who can't get over a sexy ass, and fuck people who want a game sanitized because it offends their precious sensitivities.

I'll put it like this - PF Chang's makes Chinese food. It is terrible Chinese food because it is made for everyone. It is consistent and unoffending though. There is this little food stand in my local Chinese grocery store that makes authentic Szechuan cuisine. It is quite spicy, can be a little inconsistent, and doesn't compromise because it is catering to a specific audience. It is my favorite local restaurant and it is highly acclaimed, but it gets asshole yelp reviews complaining that they don't have General Tso's chicken, or that it is too "greasy" or spicy. Should they change to cater to an audience who thinks PF Chang's is the pinnacle of Chinese cuisine?

I don't want to live in a world where my only option for Chinese food is PF Chang's. Do you?

 

[Danjin44]

I don't want the game to reach a wider audience if it means making a game for the lowest common denominator. So yeah, fuck people who can't get over a sexy ass, and fuck people who want a game sanitized because it offends their precious sensitivities.

I'll put it like this - PF Chang's makes Chinese food. It is terrible Chinese food because it is made for everyone. It is consistent and unoffending though. There is this little food stand in my local Chinese grocery store that makes authentic Szechuan cuisine. It is quite spicy, can be a little inconsistent, and doesn't compromise because it is catering to a specific audience. It is my favorite local restaurant and it is highly acclaimed, but it gets asshole yelp reviews complaining that they don't have General Tso's chicken, or that it is too "greasy" or spicy. Should they change to cater to an audience who thinks PF Chang's is the pinnacle of Chinese cuisine?

I don't want to live in a world where my only option for Chinese food is PF Chang's. Do you?

110% agree with this . If NieR Automata was trying to appeal to anyone and everyone then the game wouldn't be this memorable. Not all games is made for everybody, it's just nature of the art form.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

I don't want to live in a world where my only option for Chinese food is PF Chang's. Do you?

I'm fine living in a world where your only option for Chinese food is PF Chang's. Or do you mean everybody else is limited to PF Chang's too? Because I think there are about 2 billion Chinese people that would be pretty put out by it. As you know, they all prefer Panda Express.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It absolutely isn't and this is a disgusting attempt to try to shame me into abandoning my opinion by completely misrepresenting it.
Like, wow. I sort of can't even believe that you would think that'd be a good parallel to try to draw.

I'm saying that if you're designing a line of androids to protect the Earth and hopefully pave the way for humanity to re-emerge, why on Earth would you design them as fetish cosplay maids? That can't possibly be practical or the most efficient design, so it's hard to take the central conflict seriously when the creators of the YORHA androids apparently considered "having visible panties" to be of similar import to "saving the human race." It's laughable.

Then that wraps around to the meta-argument, because when people say "If you can't enjoy the narrative/soundtrack/gameplay as much because of the cheap titillation, that's your problem," and, you know what? You're technically right, but it deserves the question, why are you considering tits and panty shots to be of equal import to excellent narrative, soundtrack or gameplay? That's weird.

If you really cared so much about the transcendental gameplay experience and the longevity of the series you'd be willing to sacrifice the cheap, pointless sex appeal for the sake of the actual "art" getting to continue forward. I played the game through to the end of the "final" route and thought it fantastic, but I still won't buy a sequel, at least without deep discounts, unless the character design grows up alongside the rest of the game. There's tons of people who refused to buy the game at all because, honestly, 2Bs design and the sensibilities it represents are offputting and alienating to a lot of the potential audience.

So, in the end, it feels like you're hiding behind what great "art" the game is, but you're really just here for the sexy maid cosplay, because why would you be so fervently unwilling to give that up even when it means that series you love so much might be able to reach a wider audience and garner even more critical acclaim?

You are entitled not to buy a sequel, but it is not much far off to see "under dressed" women at a beach or a club and asking them to cover up for decency's sake (like religious right used to do way back then). This character is in an absurd world and maybe absurdly designed and sexual, but promoting better designs should be about creating more rather than mobbing authors into not doing what they want or satisfying their customer base instead of looking down upon them with disgust.

The core idea always seems to be "remove any example that does not actively and unequivocally promote the ideas we like as masses are stupid and would be warped by bad ideas" under the guise of educating people... "if we ban everything and every idea or representation we find improper, with our ever fluctuating measurement stick, people will be good and never have bad ideas on their own... and in case they do we should actively monitor and preemptively strike against that".

The next step is to look at women who wants to dress in a sexually "charged" way as traitors to the "cause".