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Ninja Gaiden II Impressions + Itagaki Insanity

M

MCD

Junior Member
Skilletor said:
I doubt that he would run away when he's attempting to show off the battle system and animations.
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Well yeah, just wondering if there was a chance to escape or if he saw "doors get closed and he have to beat all enemies to proceed".
 
S

ShinAmano

Member
Ryu has been described as the ultimate ninja…the ultimate bad ass with nobody to stop him. Is he going to find a foil in this game? Is there going to be someone to stop him?

Tomonobu Itagaki: Well, you can be sure that there is a guy in the story who has made it his life’s mission to stop Ryu Hayabusa.


---Bad Ass!
 
E

Elbrain

Suckin' dicks since '66
It looks freaking nice and hopefully it will turn out awesome oh BTW LOL at the Ninja Gaiden 4 Comment!
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
RiZ III said:
Please let Ayane be playable .. pretty please?
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as far as i know, only Ryu is playable.

even the "new girl" isn't playable and i doubt we would see Ayane again.
 
K

KTallguy

Banned
BuddyC said:
By the way, Microsoft provided some rather hilarious image descriptions for the new shots. You can find them here:

http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=9107&id=112658&game_id=4672
Click to expand...

Wow :lol

Game looks really awesome! I'm really wondering how complicated those zoom in death kills are. I'm also wondering how aggressive the enemies are when you start initiating them. Can you get hit out of them?

Graphics are hot, and they look like Ninja Gaiden/DOA, which really suits the game. The SFX are much improved too. Between this and DMC4, action games are having a good year :)
 
R

Rekki-Maru

Banned
McDragon said:
as far as i know, only Ryu is playable.

even the "new girl" isn't playable and i doubt we would see Ayane again.
Click to expand...

Itagaki said there will be a chance of cameos at most, but he wants to keep the franchises separated..meaning no playable DOA characters in NG.
 
S

Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
Just read the IGN writeup and saw their video (which is the same arrow video posted earlier) - awesome...

Loved where they said that they aren't just going to throw in a bunch of new weapons, but will add lots of attacks to the ones that the game will have, like the chargeable bow now - nice!

60% right now, huh... I wonder how far along it was last year from the first pics...
 
D

Draft

Member
Amazing. 2008 is the year of the action game. The faithful are gifted with DMC4 in February, NG Dragon Sword in March, and then the hat trick is completed by the ultimate evolution of the action genre on a date to be determined.

Praise be to the action gods.
 
karasu

karasu

Member
It probably should be called NG4. Haven't they remade the game twice since the original release with Black & Sigma?

I hope they don't forget about the polearms.
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
WrikaWrek said:
emag_ninjagaiden2_xbox360_012508_1_e3bf2.jpg



Heaven
Click to expand...

Holy shiiite!
One of the dudes who had lost an arm rushed Ryu and tackled him to the ground. Then, with his gaping wound still squirting blood, he attempted to drive a sword through Ryu's neck with his one remaining hand.

In response, Itagaki did what any good ninja would do. He threw a giant fireball that blew the one-armed bandit across the stage and left his corpse in flames.
Click to expand...

Ahahaha! This game is made of pure awesome win!
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Draft said:
Amazing. 2008 is the year of the action game. The faithful are gifted with DMC4 in February, NG Dragon Sword in March, and then the hat trick is completed by the ultimate evolution of the action genre on a date to be determined.

Praise be to the action gods.
Click to expand...

Hey January saw No More Heroes, don't forget about Santa Destroy. And Kratos is going to be kicking ass along with Ryu come March (at least he's supposed to).
 
B

badcrumble

Member
BojTrek said:
Didn't Itagaki laugh at the Devil May Cry videos where the enemies just dance around and wait to get killed...

WELL...

Ryu is shooting arrows at 4 ninjas and they keep walking toward him in cool, slow ninja-walk...

You would think as soon as the first arrow was shot... the remaining ninjas would sprint at Ryu to attack him??
Click to expand...

It's almost like he talks big and can't always back it up or something!
 
W

WHOAguitarninja

Member
Most anticipated game by a country mile. Itagaki's reasons for not adding mid combo weapon switching is pretty much exactly what I've been saying since the game was unveiled. People who want it are the ones who don't understand what seperates Ninja Gaiden from DMC.

BojTrek said:
Didn't Itagaki laugh at the Devil May Cry videos where the enemies just dance around and wait to get killed...

WELL...

Ryu is shooting arrows at 4 ninjas and they keep walking toward him in cool, slow ninja-walk...

You would think as soon as the first arrow was shot... the remaining ninjas would sprint at Ryu to attack him??
Click to expand...

He seems to be demoing the game on the lowest difficulty, which is why they do that. Unless the game has been dumbed down significantly, you don't have to worry about that happening on the real difficulty modes.
 
C

CowboyAstronaut

Banned
BojTrek said:
Didn't Itagaki laugh at the Devil May Cry videos where the enemies just dance around and wait to get killed...

WELL...

Ryu is shooting arrows at 4 ninjas and they keep walking toward him in cool, slow ninja-walk...

You would think as soon as the first arrow was shot... the remaining ninjas would sprint at Ryu to attack him??
Click to expand...


Maybe it was done specifically to show off the arrow. In any other situation you pull that arrow out and you're likely to get rushed by ninjas.
 
D

Draft

Member
BojTrek said:
Didn't Itagaki laugh at the Devil May Cry videos where the enemies just dance around and wait to get killed...

WELL...

Ryu is shooting arrows at 4 ninjas and they keep walking toward him in cool, slow ninja-walk...

You would think as soon as the first arrow was shot... the remaining ninjas would sprint at Ryu to attack him??
Click to expand...
Your ownage will be supreme. Make peace with whatever God you choose.

edit: wow just WOW gone from NG HD to Bullshots.

Itagaki :bow
Ownage Incarnate :bow

Prepare yourselves.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
The real question is, "Why are you using arrows when you're surrounded by 4 ninjas?"

The opponents were obviously so dumbfounded by this Hayabusa's stupidity that they didn't know how to respond.
 
Z

Zophar

Member
Tideas said:
because trolls always enter PS3 games claiming bullshots, I'm gonna do the same here.

Bullshots
Click to expand...
why bother? NG2 doesn't look that great nor does it look like its really pushing its hardware, even if that is a fake shot. What's impressive is the gameplay.

(for the record I don't think Resistance 2 looks all that impressive either, not after KZ2 has shown what the hardware can do)
 
D

Danielsan

Member
WHOAguitarninja said:
He seems to be demoing the game on the lowest difficulty, which is why they do that. Unless the game has been dumbed down significantly, you don't have to worry about that happening on the real difficulty modes.
Click to expand...
Same applies to DMC. The demo is the lowest difficulty and the game sports a total of six difficulties.

Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't look stunning but fuck it the gore makes up for it and the game is no doubt going to be awsome. 2008 is the year for action gamers.
 
T

TheDuce22

Banned
slade said:
That's the lamest justification for non weapon switching I've ever heard. It even trumps his old excuse of Xbox not having enough RAM so they couldn't put active weapon switching in.
Click to expand...

How about this one? Weapon switching is fucking retarded and it would hurt the gameplay.
 
W

WHOAguitarninja

Member
Danielsan said:
Sane applies to DMC. The demo is the lowest difficulty and the game sports a total of six difficulties.

Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't look stunning but fuck it the gore makes up for it and the game is no doubt going to be awsome. 2008 is the year for action gamers.
Click to expand...

I know the same applies to DMC. I've said countless times how much I love the series (DMC, that is). That doesn't change the fact that what he said was kindof silly.
 
D

Draft

Member
The real time weapon switching meme has officially hit epic proportions. Holy fucking SHIT can we just for once talk about action games without mentioning real time weapon switching. I enjoy real time weapon switching as much as the next guy, but there are plenty of other ways of introducing depth into a combat system. Shit, even the dude makes DMC agrees, as he's cordoned off 50% of DMC for a character who to the best of my knowledge totally lacks the ability to switch weapons in real time.

SHIT.
 
T

TheDuce22

Banned
Zophar said:
Just out of curiosity, but how would it hurt it?
Click to expand...

Because it means they dont have to make each specific weapon viable. When they limit you to one weapon at a time it seems to always result in much more polished gameplay.
 
W

WHOAguitarninja

Member
Zophar said:
Just out of curiosity, but how would it hurt it?
Click to expand...

I'll answer this with a very comprehensive post I made on the subject quite some time ago.

Me in the "Eventually 1 up yours" thread said:
Red Blaster said:
Originally Posted by Red Blaster:
Because the real-time switch elements of DMC4 expand the gameplay a great deal whereas dismemberments and charged essence moves are just fancy window dressing.
Click to expand...

The problem here is you are trying to turn NG's style of action into DMC's style of action, or rather approaching the two from a similar vantagepoint of how they should play.

If you have NG on hand, this should be an easy test to do, if not it may be trickier, but I want you to go take a long look at the behavior of all the moves. You'll generally find something interesting. A lot of moves have a relatively long recovery time...that is, a time in which after the attack portion of the move is completed you're sitting there watching Ryu recover. This is done purposefully. This decision borrows MUCH more from the virtua fighter design philosophy than it does form the Devil May Cry design philosophy. That is that the move you perform should be carefully decided on to ensure it lands, because if it doesn't, you'll be opening yourself wide to be hit. Now notice the recovery times in DMC are almost universally shorter. This is for another reason entirely. The short recovery time allows you to do any number of things, be it rolling, dodging, blocking, switching weapons...whatever...to get out of an incoming attack. This is the fundamental place where the two games differ as I see it...one forces you to plan before an attack to ensure your own safety, the other forces you to react to what happens after. I don't think either is superior because of their design decision, they're just different. I prefer the NG style, forcing you to think ahead rather than think quick, but I will not fault anyone for thinking the opposite.

Now, lets think about what adding the sort of weapon switching you're discussing into NG would do.

The first thing that we should think about, is what COULDN'T happen. The game couldn't be overly restrictive on WHEN you can switch weapons. This means that most recovery animations would have to either be cut, shortened, or made so that you can switch a weapon during their execution. Otherwise the game would be presenting you with a scenario in which the rules of engagement were not consistent. This could be overcome with experience, but it adds a hurdle to learning the game that would frustrate newcomers even more than the already high difficulty. Also, it would not be fundamentally different from what is there now.

So that means that if recovery animations were effecively nullified, one of the main pillars of NG's challenge and depth would vanish, to be replaced by another. Namely, the same element that DMC draws it's challenge and fun from. While I can't fault you for wanting this to change, I can say that we already have a game that is doing this (DMC), and that we don't need two.

The depth and challenge of these games does not only come from the number of choices a player has at his disposal, but also the way limiting those choices in certain scenarios will force a player to plan ahead.

Now onto the way charges and dismemberment add depth. First, charges are a fairly obvious risk/reward scenario, as you spend time charging, being immobile and totally vulnerable, in order to deal damage. Theres not a whole lot to consider here, but strategically it comes up quite often where you try to position yourself such that you get a chance to charge so you can do extra damage. A good example is fighting against the slow moving axe zombie things under the monastery in NG.

Now onto dismemberment, which has been heavily criticised and debated. I've stood up for this as a significant addition to the gameplay in the past, so forgive me if I just restate previous arguments (although hopefully in a slightly better articulated fashion this time seeing how poorly it was received last time). I'm not going to tell you it's as significant as weapon switching was for DMC, because it's not. However I don't think that needs to be the bar for a succesful advancement in the series. Afterall, while you may think DMC3 had superior combat to NG in terms of depth and complexity, I doubt you would say the same of DMC1.

Anyway, dismemberment is not merely window dressing for the simple reason that it will change your opponents moves they have available. If you've played NG1 (and I hope you have), you'll likely remember the zombie axe dudes I mentioned earlier. If you recall, certain moves, if they connect, decapitate the bad guys, not killing them, but effectively blinding them. This, especially on higher difficulties, provided a strong strategic advantage in obvious ways, as now they are far less likely to hit you with a swing, giving you the oppurtunity to do more charged moves among other things. Also, if I recally correctly (it's been a couple months since I last played the game with any real vigor), they don't tackle you either when they have been be-headed. This is important because now all of their moves become blockable (though certain ones will guard break...the impact itself won't hurt you). This allows you to simplify your strategy alot, as much of the strategy in NG comes from the classic fighting rock paper scissors of guard/throw/attack. When you eliminate their "throw", the battle changes completely.

From the first video of NG2 we got an example of this. The machine gun wielding enemies had a throw (i beleive they did a cartwheel and shot you, or something of the sort), which required that they have both arms. Turns out certain attacks will remove their arms, effectively eliminating that move. This changes the focus of the battle from killing everyone, to prioritizing bad guys, even of the same class, because certain ones now pose a larger threat due to being in position of their full physical faculties.

My basic point is this. If you compare NG to DMC based on what makes DMC work, of course NG2 will look like a total non-upgrade. However when you take into account the design decisions that lie at the heart of each you'll see that the changes they have made to NG2 actually do serve the purpose of furthering their focus on forethought and planning instead of on reactions and patterns. But if you keep wanting NG to change to be more like DMC, you're going to be dissapointed.
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