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[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Nintendo is just one of many, many alternatives to typical FPS games. What they're doing isn't that unique or special anymore. If they folded up shop, we'd still have enough RPGs, platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc, that you would never have enough time for it all.

 

[Laguna]

But, but... but there´ll be Mario Kart 3DS this year /sarcasm

@Wolfgunblood Garopa
Who is we? I´m in the wait and see camp for example and am really interested in the combination of Sin&Punishment/Starfox gameplay and action loaded 3rd person shooter aspects.

 

[BurntPork]

Nintendo's situation reminds me of Sega's, only it's entirely their own fault. Poetic justice.
(I think Sega's was partially bad management and mostly the brutal competition.)

Yeah. Like how there's an add-on and... uh... um... there's an add-on?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

But, but... but there´ll be Mario Kart 3DS this year /sarcasm

@Wolfgunblood Garopa
Who is we? I´m in the wait and see camp for example and am really interested in the combination of Sin&Punishment/Starfox gameplay and action loaded 3rd person shooter aspects.

Those of us who played Kid Icarus when it came out, considered it a favorite, and wondered when there would be a new game ever since. I can understand having a more positive take on the 3DS game if you haven't played the original and know of Pit from Smash Bros.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Just because it's a modern feature doesn't mean it needs to be implemented.

Exactly. That's like saying that all games should support motion control because it's a modern feature. Not all games need those controls.

 

[manueldelalas]

I don't think the 3DS will fail but it definitely won't be the success the DS was, at least not for a while. The 3DS doesn't need a 2nd stick, it's needs games. Mine has been dead and sitting on a shelf for about 2 months now.

As for the comment on Nintendo being the reason the industry is creative and whatnot?

Mmmmmmm, no. Motion controls are arguably a step back for gaming.

The things that have kept gaming fresh and quirky this gen are the XBLA/PSN/iOS games and companies like Atlus.

How about no?

How is that motion controllers is a step back? I mean, they weren't well implemented in the original Wiimote, but the Wiimote plus and the PS Move show you that you are absolutely wrong. How is it a step back that I can play a fucking ping-pong game without the need of a traditional controller? or tennis, or golf, Frisbee, fishing, etc? How is it a step back that I can point at the screen the guys I want to shoot (not motion btw)? How is it a step back that I can swing a sword instead of pressing a button and watching the action? How is it a step back that I can put a controller in my pocket and jog and have an awesome fitness software instead of having a game where I have to press A and B alternatively (or buy the running mat)?

Arguably a step back? you can't argue shit; it is a step forward, it is difficult to even imagine any future console that doesn't have a controller without some kind of motion technology; that is here to stay (3DS and Vita have motion controls, if you didn't know).

 

[firelink]

Nintendo is just one of many, many alternatives to the FPS glut. What they're doing isn't that unique or special anymore. If they folded up shop, we'd still have enough RPGs, platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc, that you would never have enough time for it all.

Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart DS sold more games this generation than every single first party Sony and Microsoft game combined.

Didn't Nintendo just reveal that the Wii/DS sold more than a half a billion pieces of Nintendo software? Yeah, not very unique.

 

[qq more]

Nintendo is just one of many, many alternatives to typical FPS games. What they're doing isn't that unique or special anymore. If they folded up shop, we'd still have enough RPGs, platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc, that you would never have enough time for it all.

Nintendo's platformers are considered one of the best (if not the best) even in modern times. What are you talking about?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I don't think the 3DS will fail but it definitely won't be the success the DS was, at least not for a while. The 3DS doesn't need a 2nd stick, it's needs games. Mine has been dead and sitting on a shelf for about 2 months now.

As for the comment on Nintendo being the reason the industry is creative and whatnot?

Mmmmmmm, no. Motion controls are arguably a step back for gaming.

The things that have kept gaming fresh and quirky this gen are the XBLA/PSN/iOS games and companies like Atlus.

Why did you buy a 3DS to just let it languish on a shelf?

Also, Motion Controls are such a step back that Microsoft and Sony wanted to join Nintendo in backstep land, mirite?

 

[theBishop]

Nintendo is just one of many, many alternatives to typical FPS games. What they're doing isn't that unique or special anymore. If they folded up shop, we'd still have enough RPGs, platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc, that you would never have enough time for it all.

100% agree with this post.

I wonder if people who react strongly to that jpg read books or listen to music or watch films. It's the same situation with everything. There are always trends. You could listen to nothing but shitty autotuned pop-country right now, there's a ton of it on the radio. But there's lots of other things to listen to as well.

If you have personal taste, then enjoy the things you like and ignore the things you don't like. What's the problem with this?

 

[Penguin]

Technically they are doing something unexpected with Kid Icarus- but when it's that unappealing and completely off the mark of what we want, trying something different isn't that great of a thing.

Not publishing those 2 RPGs is a disgrace. That is just the worst bunch of bullshit I can imagine from a major publisher. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. On top of everything else... if they couldn't even handle that, why even bother. There's plenty of great alternatives, and already not enough time.

Again, I'm not sure what you are arguing with Kid Icarus. You don't like what you say. But that doesn't make it any less fresh.

And that was your original point. If you want to say Nintendo sometimes makes changes in their core games which aren't appealing to long-time fans, that's a fair point.

Though goes against your whole crusade about them always playing it safe.

And for the last part, they did publish the games. It sucks we aren't getting it here in America. But Nintendo did go to bat for it, in 2 out of 3 territories.

 

[dream]

Nintendo's platformers are considered one of the best (if not the best) even in modern times. What are you talking about?

I think his point is other studios are making excellent platformers too and Nintendo isn't the only studio saving us from an all FPS all the time future.

 

[jman2050]

Other M had a lot of glaring problems, from the awkward controls to the embarrassing storyline, and I'm surprised someone didn't say "maybe we should try to fix some of these things" at some point during the development process.

That's what sequels are for.

Most of Other M's problems were directly related to the terrible terrible decisions to A)change the presentation to be a lot more story-oriented, which itself was not done well in any capacity, and more importantly, B) making the game mostly linear ala Metroid Fusion.

The core mechanics are sound even if they needed refinement, the problem is that there isn't a real opportunity to take advantage of those mechanics until you've played most of the game and it finally opens up for you to explore.

 

[qq more]

I think his point is other studios are making excellent platformers too and Nintendo isn't the only studio saving us from an all FPS all the time future.

Ah, okay. My mistake.

 

[Raziel]

Or maybe you could judge systems based on the games they offer instead of the system's features.

You know, like a reasonable person.

I'm not saying you should buy a DS just because. I'm saying that your reasoning is fucking stupid.

If you don't want it because you've looked at the library and it doesn't interest you, that's one thing.

If you don't want it because you immediately decided that dual screens and a touch screen were stupid the second it was announced, then didn't even bother looking at the games the system had to offer throughout its life, then sit here six years later still bitching about the dual screen and touch screen despite almost certainly having very limited experience with the system due to having not owned one, that's another thing.


But maybe it's just me. Maybe it's just because I don't understand this closed-minded stance that so many gamers seem to hold of absolutely refusing to try anything different or new. Like, I can understand seeing certain uses of touch or motion controls and saying, "Nah, that doesn't interest me." But the idea of completely writing off the entire concept of touch or motion controls entirely on concept, saying, "No, I will never ever be able to enjoy any touch or motion or whatever controls and will absolutely refuse to ever give such things a real chance," simply because they're different from what you're used to, absolutely boggles my mind.

What is so terrible about touch controls or a second screen that would absolutely ruin any and all enjoyment you could possibly gain from a game on the system? I'm honestly not even a huge fan of either, but I don't see how they in any way detract from anything I've played. There's been the occasional tacked on gimmicky feature in an otherwise good game, but when I come across those, you know who I blame? The developer, for making poor design decisions. not the system for offering those features.


You know what else? I'm not even a big fan of the DS. I think its library was extremely disappointing after the GBA, which was one of my favorite systems ever. I can perfectly understand if someone didn't buy one because they didn't see a lot of games they wanted. But absolutely none of the issues I have with the system come from the touch controls or second screen.

i dont want dual screens or stylus controls so i didnt buy a ds.

i dont want motion controls so i didnt buy a wii.

and yes, it should go without saying that neither platform has the games that either convert me to them or make me want them in spite of them.

that isnt stupid reasoning. you can think its stupid reasoning though.

i never once said dual screens, touchscreens, stylus control, or motion controls were stupid. i said i didnt like them. i dont want to use them. thats my personal preference. you apparently feel differently about those things and thats fine. how hard is that for you to get?

oh wait let me try it your way. let me rephrase it so as to make it more palatable to you and perhaps get it through that thick head. to all of the above - including dual screens, touch screens, stylus control, motion controls, voice activation, 3D, and tablet controllers - i say : ""Nah, that doesn't interest me."

better?

 

[Knux-Future]

Nintendo is just one of many, many alternatives to typical FPS games. What they're doing isn't that unique or special anymore. If they folded up shop, we'd still have enough RPGs, platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc, that you would never have enough time for it all.

Really? Where are all the platfoirmers? I must have missed them.

While it's stupid to say lol without nintendo all we'd have is FPS'...it's just as dumb to say Nintendo brings nothing.

i don't get some people's mentalility that just because they don't like something taht it just shouldn't exsist.

I don't like FPS' but I don't bitch about them or wish they were gone. Having a selection of games is a good thing.

As for Nintendo...they will be fine. They have the big gun. When about wanting something new but call me when Nintendo makes a shitty Mainline Pokemon game (...had to make that specific..also was going to say Zelda or Mario but lol that's been done).

 

[manueldelalas]

What I'd like to see for Wii U is something they had for the first major appearance of the Wii at E3 - the constant dripfeed of awesome news. It wasn't just the press conference, we got little extra bits as the show went on; the Wii completely owned the news cycle for pretty much all of E3. If they can achieve that, it could well sway the critics.

I've got an audio track somewhere of the audience during the Smash Bros Brawl reveal with Pit, Meta Knight and Wario... and then Snake. It was pretty deafening.

They should reveal a fucking big Pokemon game, on the scale of Xenoblade Chronicles with Pokemons everywhere in the world, and with online included; that would be the bomb (and what we've been asking for years =P)

 

[jman2050]

Really? Where are all the platfoirmers? I must have missed them.

To be fair, it's a highly represented genre in the PC indie gaming space, although that's more a fortunate side effect of the fact that 2D platformers are one of the easiest genres to work with on a shoestring budget.

As far as 3D platformers you're totally right though.

 

[Infinite]

Really? Where are all the platformers? I must have missed them.

I guess you have, meanwhile others have been enjoying Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 Donkey Country Returns, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Kirby Epic Yarn and others.

 

[manueldelalas]

I guess you have, meanwhile others have been enjoying Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 Donkey Country Returns, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Kirby Epic Yarn and others.

He was asking where are the non Nintendo platformers...

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart DS sold more games this generation than every single first party Sony and Microsoft game combined.

Didn't Nintendo just reveal that the Wii/DS sold more than a half a billion pieces of Nintendo software? Yeah, not very unique.

And I'm sure Mario Kart 3DS will continue the trend. As will Mario Kart Wii U. Etc, etc.

 

[Infinite]

He was asking where are the non Nintendo platformers...

I beg my pardon.

 

[Penguin]

Really? Where are all the platfoirmers? I must have missed them.

While it's stupid to say lol without nintendo all we'd have is FPS'...it's just as dumb to say Nintendo brings nothing.

i don't get some people's mentalility that just because they don't like something taht it just shouldn't exsist.

I don't like FPS' but I don't bitch about them or wish they were gone. Having a selection of games is a good thing.

As for Nintendo...they will be fine. They have the big gun. When about wanting something new but call me when Nintendo makes a shitty Mainline Pokemon game (...had to make that specific..also was going to say Zelda or Mario but lol that's been done).

To be fair, Ani created this awesome thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377239

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Really? Where are all the platfoirmers? I must have missed them.

Platformance: Temple Death is pretty good.

 

[SovanJedi]

Technically they are doing something unexpected with Kid Icarus- but when it's that unappealing and completely off the mark of what we want, trying something different isn't that great of a thing.

What the smack are you talking about, the demo was fantastic fun. Speak for yourself.

Out of curiosity though, what do "we" want from a new Kid Icarus game?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I beg my pardon.

Well, Klonoa and A Boy and His Blob are two that immediately come to mind.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's kind of weird that everyone thinks Kid Icarus looks so terrible

I think it looks kind of fun

but maybe in practice it's secretly awful, I don't know. I guess I'll find out when it is released.

 

[Sennorin]

Kid Icarus looks strong visually, but the controls *sound* awful. And I´m not a fan of on-rail shooters :/

Only the flying parts are on rails.

Yeah, the ground part consists of shallow action-gameplay :/

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

What the smack are you talking about, the demo was fantastic fun. Speak for yourself.

Out of curiosity though, what do "we" want from a new Kid Icarus game?

If I was speaking for myself, I wouldn't have used 'we'. I have yet to talk to anyone about it that was satisfied with it as the long awaited new Kid Icarus game.

 

[firelink]

Only the flying parts are on rails.

 

[Knux-Future]

I guess you have, meanwhile others have been enjoying Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 Donkey Country Returns, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Kirby Epic Yarn and others.

which are all made by Nintendo....sooo? Kinda proves my point. Nintendo is one of the few dudes that are giving us major platformers.

Alice Madness Returns was one of my favorite games of this year just due to the fact that holy shit a new platformer. The genre is on life support.

I've read through a few oages so a lot of this probably has been covered but I gotta get it out.

1. A lot of people say shit like Lol Nintendo makes the same games every year...it gets old.

ReallY? There have been 4 3d Mario games in 10 or so years. 4 Zeldas in that same span(all of which are good...so wtf are you complainign about. Are you really saying...man I'm tired of getting these good games?). And at the most 2 New pokemon entries for the DS generation. I'm tired of people saying that Nintendo rehashes shit too much. Since It ignores the fact that they have a stable of great franchises that due to them being great need new entries. wtf? Besides..it's a buisness. These games sells bucketloads..no shit they will keep making them.

It's okay to not like these games..just say so and stop making up shit like "Nintendo makes too many Mario gamezzzzzz" Those are called spinoffs or just use the Character.

2. The Kid Icarus stuff is funny to me since I though that the OG game actually sucked..so just me though.

Look, I'm not even a big Nintendo guy (I coudl be called a Sony fanboy which is weird since they killed my first love Sega...which I was more of a Sonic Fanboy until I saw what the fanbase was really like...my eyes...) but some of the bullshit that is spewed here is sad. I don't even like motion controls...and I think that the DS was/is overrated but I don't condemn the people who like it. There are enough games for everyone. Quit bitching about games you don't like(or in some case you don't even play)and focus on the ones you do. If those suck then go ahead and bitch.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Kid Icarus looks strong visually, but the controls *sound* awful. And I´m not a fan of on-rail shooters :/

People compared it to Sin & Punishment, which is probably one of my favorite titles of all time. S&P2 is legitimately one of the best games of the generation that everyone ignored.

 

[Truth101]

It's kind of weird that everyone thinks Kid Icarus looks so terrible

I think it looks kind of fun

but maybe in practice it's secretly awful, I don't know. I guess I'll find out when it is released.

I was secretly hoping for an adventure game... =C

 

[Knux-Future]

People compared it to Sin & Punishment, which is probably one of my favorite titles of all time. S&P2 is legitimately one of the best games of the generation that everyone ignored.

You sir have my axe and my sword.

 

[Infinite]

which are all made by Nintendo....sooo? Kinda proves my point. Nintendo is one of the few dudes that are giving us major platformers.

I know, I misread your post initially.

 

[Boney]

Really? Where are all the platfoirmers? I must have missed them.

You must've. Klonoa sold pretty terrible.

 

[Knux-Future]

I know, I misread your post initially.

yeah my bad..I type like a sloth.

You must've. Klonoa sold pretty terrible.

I bought it..never finished it.

Kinda boring. Klonoa 2 is better.

 

[michaeltraps]

Are people really getting on Nintendo's case for not including voice acting as a "modern feature?" Not every game, character or universe would benefit from voices and would, in most cases, hurt it. Mario games don't need to be voiced and (I will get crap for this) neither does Zelda. There are ways to infuse a character with personality and set tone without having them blab every 5 mins. Are we now going to get on Team Ico for not including voices in their games? Are they now going to be accused of not being "modern?"

 

[Knux-Future]

Sunshine was Voice acted.

People complained.


Can't win.

Cue MiyamotoZelda post.

 

[manueldelalas]

You must've. Klonoa sold pretty terrible.

It was pretty terrible too IMO. I loved the GBA Klonas (100%'d both of them), but there is so much wrong with the Klonoa on Wii (or PS1) that I don't know where to begin.

The game is like 5 hours long; now, I know what you'll say, that doesn't matter. The problem is that most of that 5 hours is spent on horrible cut-scenes; it was like everything needed to be explained; 5 minutes playing -> cutscene, really bad pacing. If you take out the cutscenes, you would have 2 or 3 hours of game, and that isn't a lot. And the cutscenes talk about stuff made up by someone that was really stoned.

While the GBA games focused on puzzle stages, which were awesome, this version focused on getting from A to B, and had almost no difficulty.

Yes, Klonoa is a great idea, they have released 2 excellent games, but the main series first game is worthless, I said it. I liked it when I was playing, but the pacing was bad. If you want a true Klonoa, play the ones on the GBA and forget this exists.

 

[outunderthestars]

We've found our new "spin 360 degrees and walk away" joke ladies and gentlemen. :lol

Wouldn't that be walking towards?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Are people really getting on Nintendo's case for not including voice acting as a "modern feature?" Not every game, character or universe would benefit from voices and would, in most cases, hurt it. Mario games don't need to be voiced and (I will get crap for this) neither does Zelda. There are ways to infuse a character with personality and set tone without having them blab every 5 mins. Are we now going to get on Team Ico for not including voices in their games? Are they now going to be accused of not being "modern?"

I think Nintendo is going to have to do voice acting, decent voice acting, eventually. The mainstays will probably still stay silent, but I think even Iwata recognizes that this has become a bullet point in modern day games.

Kid Icarus is probably the first foray in to trying this out and it's undoubtedly going to suffer from the growing pains you'd expect from a company being forced to change with the times.

I actually expect Kid Icarus to be the model, really. A kind of goofy, tongue-in-cheek, Disney-style attempt at dialogue, full of bad puns and anime-style directing. "Bark like a dog" said while fighting Cerberus, for example.

 

[firelink]

I think Nintendo is going to have to do voice acting, decent voice acting, eventually. The mainstays will probably still stay silent, but I think even Iwata recognizes that this has become a bullet point in modern day games.

Kid Icarus is probably the first foray in to trying this out and it's undoubtedly going to suffer from the growing pains you'd expect from a company being forced to change with the times.

I actually expect Kid Icarus to be the model, really. A kind of goofy, tongue-in-cheek, Disney-style attempt at dialogue, full of bad puns and anime-style directing. "Bark like a dog" said while fighting Cerberus, for example.

Kid Icarus is being done by Project Sora under the helm of Masahiro Sakurai.

It will have amazing voice acting.

 

[Boney]

It was pretty terrible too IMO. I loved the GBA Klonas (100%'d both of them), but there is so much wrong with the Klonoa on Wii (or PS1) that I don't know where to begin.

The game is like 5 hours long; now, I know what you'll say, that doesn't matter. The problem is that most of that 5 hours is spent on horrible cut-scenes; it was like everything needed to be explained; 5 minutes playing -> cutscene, really bad pacing. If you take out the cutscenes, you would have 2 or 3 hours of game, and that isn't a lot. And the cutscenes talk about stuff made up by someone that was really stoned.

While the GBA games focused on puzzle stages, which were awesome, this version focused on getting from A to B, and had almost no difficulty.

Yes, Klonoa is a great idea, they have released 2 excellent games, but the main series first game is worthless, I said it. I liked it when I was playing, but the pacing was bad. If you want a true Klonoa, play the ones on the GBA and forget this exists.

reminds me I never did play Klonoa 2 even though I picked up my GBA with the first one and enjoyed it a lot.

 

[manueldelalas]

Are people really getting on Nintendo's case for not including voice acting as a "modern feature?" Not every game, character or universe would benefit from voices and would, in most cases, hurt it. Mario games don't need to be voiced and (I will get crap for this) neither does Zelda. There are ways to infuse a character with personality and set tone without having them blab every 5 mins. Are we now going to get on Team Ico for not including voices in their games? Are they now going to be accused of not being "modern?"

I don't know what's the benefit of having a box of text over voice acting.

Link and Mario are characters that don't speak, they have a neutral personality, so obviously they will never be voiced (although the grunts and yahoos have both official both actors), but for the other character in the game, voice acting would improve them if done correctly.

I think many people are scared of voice acting because they have had some of the terrible experiences of the past games; which really seemed to have voice acting added late in development.

This point is crucial, because obviously having voice acting is different if the game was conceived with it at first or it was added later. I highlight this point because some games have "voice acting" that is really just reading text boxes; and that sucks, because they read to you all of the emotions that can't be implicit in text but can be implicit while talking.

But then, if you have professional voice acting, a game conceived to have it, then it is a very good addition, and I don't see why couldn't the toads in Mario or the hyruleans in Zelda speak. Especially Ganondorf needs a voice, it would make him more believable.

 

[Gaborn]

The event on the 13th and TGS will make or break the 3DS. I thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now.

Completely and TOTALLY agreed.

I will also say as much as the 3DS needs to completely change the narrative the real system in danger in my view is the Wii U. Nintendo has time to "fix" the 3DS in consumers minds, but the confidence in Nintendo being shaken like this is already having a mindshare effect on the Wii U. I really sincerely think Nintendo needs to end some of the uncertainty there if not with a full blow out then details that reassure gamers such as information on online. Uncertainty can work when consumers are excited because they fill in the blanks in very positive ways, when you have a negative buzz around your business though....

 

[StevieP]

But then, if you have professional voice acting, a game conceived to have it, then it is a very good addition, and I don't see why couldn't the toads in Mario or the hyruleans in Zelda speak. Especially Ganondorf needs a voice, it would make him more believable.

Or vastly more cheesy (even with a good voice actor and script), completely undermining the gravitas of the character.

 

[manueldelalas]

reminds me I never did play Klonoa 2 even though I picked up my GBA with the first one and enjoyed it a lot.

It was very good (Klonoa 2 GBA), I liked it about the same as the first one.

I never played Klonoa 2 on the PS2 (never had a PS2 and don't have a PC capable of emulating it), but I've heard it is more like Klonoa PS1 than Klonoa GBA, so I'm not excited to play it, but probably will in a couple of years.

 

[Laguna]

Are we now going to get on Team Ico for not including voices in their games? Are they now going to be accused of not being "modern?"

That´s an interesting point, since their games are regarded as perfect by alot of Sonyfans and I honestly never read someone complain about the missing Voice-acting.

 

[michaeltraps]

I think Nintendo is going to have to do voice acting, decent voice acting, eventually. The mainstays will probably still stay silent, but I think even Iwata recognizes that this has become a bullet point in modern day games.

I agree with you here. Mario, Zelda, etc would probably maintain the silence, but Nintendo could introduce voice acting through either new IPs or the relaunch of older ones (Kid Icarus, for example).

One of the main issues with the oldies is that whatever voices they currently have were chosen with the intention of use in only short bursts or merely sound effects (grunts, cries, etc). I don't think I could sit through an entire game of Mario or Kirby "speaking" as their voices currently stand. Their voices would have to be reworked from the ground-up to make for a tolerable experience.

Spoiler

What has this thread become??