it wants kids to graduate from Pokemon
I'll take Pokemon over MH anyday.
it wants kids to graduate from Pokemon
Same and I like MH.P90 said:I'll take Pokemon over MH anyday.
not hereP90 said:I'll take Pokemon over MH anyday.
raziel said:buying a ds and fact checking every single game as such - "does it use both screens? does it use the stylus? because i hate both of those things" - makes zero sense. eventually someone reasonable would have to inquire "Why the fuck did you buy a Nintendo Dual Screen if you dont like the idea of dual screens?"
similar to buying a wii if i dont like motion controls - why would i buy a console with motion controls if i hate motion controls?
"I DONT KNOW SOME GAMES DONT USE THEM BUY IT ANYWAY SDNSKBGSIGFIUSBGUSGSLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL"
Diffense said:That's not true.
Games are designed with different audiences in mind.
It's seems strange to have to state the obvious.
I find Nintendo' output of high-quality games that target experienced players to be less varied on Wii and third party support is as dismal as ever.
Having owned N64, NGC, and Wii I feel comfortable making that statement.
The DS was released just 3 1/2 years into the GBA's life, thanks to pressure from the PSP, and the GBA was successful, so that's hardly surprising or anything bad.BurntPork said:A.) The early life of the DS was negatively impacted by the GBA chugging along.
I think people are slowly figuring out that it is a new system, and this'll get more true over time as more games come out for it.B.) THE GENERAL MARKET STILL THINKS THAT THE 3DS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A DS WITH 3D!!!!!!!!!!
I agree that NoA needs some new marketing people, but as usual you go too far. It's too soon to abandon the DS. Waiting until next year to start phasing it out is a perfectly good strategy. The 3DS already has gotten a boost from the pricedrop, I think the situation isn't too bad. Mario and Mario Kart aren't out yet, why do you think that killing off the DS now would do any good?NoA has no idea how to market the 3DS as a new product. Unless NoA replaces their entire marketing department with competent people, they either have to kill off DS or deal with PSP-like sales next year.
uh, yeah it is. not to mention stupid, when youre looking for games that go against the platforms inherent and definitive features.Agent Unknown said:
Oh, I hear you. "Fact checking" what features any given video game may or may not utilize with its respective console is so bothersome and exhausting! What really irks me is that this type of inconvenience and expectation of basic consumer research extends into other types of media as well! Just last week I was taking a walk with my IPhone in my pocket, and while listening to one of my playlists, was quite perturbed to find out that the shuffle has a "shake" function! I took one hard step and it skipped to the next song! I was so ticked off. I've owned my IPhone since February and didn't know about this stupid, annoying feature which I for one certainly never needed, nor asked for!
So off I went, trudging into the settings menu to figure out how I could cumbersomely turn it off. I called up one of my friends to complain about this and he yelled "DUDE! WHY THE HECK DID YOU BUY AN IPHONE ANYWAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF A GYROMETER OR EXTRA SHUFFLE FUNCTIONS??!! LOL!" I mean really, he had me there!
Shin Johnpv said:Yes. It is true. The only difference is your perspective. A game is a game is a game is a game.
Back in the day most "hardcore" gamers I knew called things like Madden, or any sports game "casual" bullshit. It wasn't true then and it's not true now. There is no difference of casual or hardcore, a game is a fucking game. The only difference is in your perception of them.
It doesn't matter who the target audience is. A game is a game is a game. If it appeals to you, or you like is a separate matter. There was a time when all "hardcore" stood for was people who played a lot of games. I really REALLY miss that time period. This "core" and "casual" bullshit needs to die in a fire.
Well that's just your opinion and not fact. I could make the argument that owning an Atari 2600, Commodore 128, Master System, NES, Genesis, Turbo Grafix 16, SNES, Neo Geo AES, Saturn, Playstation, N64, 3DO, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Xbox, Gamecube, Playstation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii I am even more comfortable making that statement. That is just as silly and stupid though as your comment.
I personally find that Nintendo's output of high quality games is just as high as it's ever been. The only thing missing from the Wii's library I would have liked to have seen would have been another F-Zero, and a legitimate sequel to SF64. Though we got a sequel to Sin and Punishment, and finally after 2 generations with out a sequel to Punch Out!!!. Plus 3 platforming Mario games, 2 Metroid games that played differently than each other, a beautifully done 2d Wario platformer, and not to mention porting over MP1 and 2 with pointer controls.
This has been done to death on this board but if you actually take the time to LOOK at release lists, Nintendo's output really isn't any different than previous gens. it's all in your perception that things have changed and they've "forgotten" you.
Yeah 3rd party support wasn't as good as it could have been, but really its no worse than what the GC got, or the N64. Hell in some ways I'd say it was definitely better than the N64. Shit its getting Dragon Warrior X and got MH. While that may not be huge in the west that's a HUGE 3rd party win for Japan. Those 2 games alone are bigger than any 3rd party game the N64 got.
I've owned and experienced first hand every single Nintendo console since the NES and their traditional output on the Wii was as strong as it's ever been.Diffense said:I am not making any lists as I have owned the previous two Nintendo consoles when they were current and experienced them first-hand.
Meanwhile, Wii got two 3D Marios compared to one on N64, one 2D Mario compared to none on N64 and two Metroids compared to none on N64.Diffense said:Yet, the Wii will be five years old before it gets a single exclusive Zelda by which time N64 already had Zelda:MM.
Jokeropia said:I've owned and experienced first hand every single Nintendo console since the NES and their traditional output on the Wii was as strong as it's ever been.
Meanwhile, Wii got two 3D Marios compared to one on N64, one 2D Mario compared to none on N64 and two Metroids compared to none on N64.
Diffense said:You are almost covering your ears and yelling here.
A large number of games made by Nintendo for Wii are not targetted at experienced or enthusiast gamers.
Diffense said:My collection of Nintendo published N64 games by Rare, Nintendo, NST etc. has no equivalent on Wii all these years into its existence.
So I can't be convinced that they have been just as strong as a publisher for the part of the market with interests like mine.
Some years, like 2009, were particularly bad featuring new play control versions of NGC games I already owned, trilogy compilations of games I bought individually, Wii 'X' games I didn't want and very little else.
But they have done a good job of catering to some market segments. I won't argue with that.
Diffense said:My collection of Nintendo published N64 games by Rare, Nintendo, NST etc. has no equivalent on Wii all these years into its existence.
So I can't be convinced that they have been just as strong as a publisher for the part of the market with interests like mine.
Some years, like 2009, were particularly bad featuring new play control versions of NGC games I already owned, trilogy compilations of games I bought individually, Wii 'X' games I didn't want and very little else.
But they have done a good job of catering to some market segments. I won't argue with that.
Coming from someone who loved the first-party line-up of both the N64 and Cube, this post is correct. It helps that I enjoy the Wii___ series for the most part.Rafaelcsa said:In my view, the Wii first-party line-up is by far the strongest since the SNES.
raziel said:uh, yeah it is. not to mention stupid, when youre looking for games that go against the platforms inherent and definitive features. i dont want them, period. try not to take it so hard, and get over it.
wasn't that the line a kotaku editor wrote?DGRE said:
Oh, wait...
Rafaelcsa said:Just for the Wii we got 3 main-line Marios (including a 2D console one, something that seemed impossible to happen some time ago), 2 Zeldas, 2 Metroids, 2 Kirby games, a Donkey Kong Country game, a new Punch-Out, a new Sin & Punishment (!!), 2 entries to the Excite series, Fire Emblem, Wario Land (first time on a console), JRPGs (Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandora's Tower), a point & click adventure (Another Code R), plus more expected stuff like Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario sports games, Animal Crossing etc.
You mean to tell me that doesn't at least equate to what Nintendo did during the N64 days? Have you played all these games? If you're an "experienced" gamer, I'm sure you'd enjoy the challenge provided by games such as Sin & Punishment 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Punch-Out and Fire Emblem. I don't believe for a second that you've played these if you are serious about what you are saying and not just a troll.
Or is your point just that Rare is not developing games for Nintendo anymore? Because that's the only point you've got.
In my view, the Wii first-party line-up is by far the strongest since the SNES.
Diffense said:As I said, it is my estimation that Nintendo is a weaker publisher on the Wii than they were for N64. If three Mario games made the Wii perfect for you, so be it. They could have made 10, I doubt I would have owned them all.
Diffense said:A sizeable portion of their Wii output is designed for previous non-players (Wii 'X').
NeonZ said:Aren't you applying a big double standard there? One of the only examples that you've mentioned regarding Nintendo's lacking output was the time it took for an exclusive true Zelda game for the Wii, compared to the Nintendo 64 getting two new Zeldas in the same timeframe. However, when people mention that they made more real Mario games than they made for the previous consoles, suddenly numbers don't matter and it's variety that's important?
In any case, if your main point is regarding Nintendo losing core fans and the transition to next gen, I don't see why you even went into "list wars" in the first place (and, yes, you basically did that considering your claims about their output), especially if you apparently don't want to talk about that.
Shin Johnpv said:11/12 games out of 65 is not sizable. You've already been proven wrong on this, and IMHO at this point it feels like you're just trolling, or just sticking your head in the sand going LALALALALA I can't hear you LALALALALALA.
What you "feel" doesn't mean shit compared to numerical facts. You can feel that the sun is only 8 miles away and is really tiny, doesn't make it true.
If they start with "Wii" or are similar to that range of titles as your previous post suggested?Diffense said:So what FACTS does someone who says "a game is a game is a game" use to arrive at his classifications in order to compute 11/65.
Fixed, and yes, it was obvious you were just going to do that from the very beginning.lol, I'll stick to my incorrect assessment.
Diffense said:So what FACTS does someone who says "a game is a game is a game" use to arrive at his classifications in order to compute 11/65.
lol, I'll stick to my correct assessment.
Diffense said:Meanwhile Microsoft has made a successful entry into the motion control/casual market with the surprisingly successful Kinect.
We know that MS has to fail spectacularly over an long period of time to leave a market so it's not going anywhere now.
The result is that their CONSOLES are becoming a lot less appealing to some gamers even if the Nintendo games that target those gamers are still of high quality.
This explains why certain genres do poorly on the Wii regardless of brilliance of the representative games.
Everything about the Wii and what they're trying to do with Wii U (down to the reason for its very name) screams Diffense is right.
Diffense said:That I'm right is abundantly obvious.
Everything about the Wii and what they're trying to do with Wii U (down to the reason for its very name) screams Diffense is right.
It's a good thing Nintendo can sense which way the wind is blowing a bit better than its fans can.
Truth101 said:When someone says something like this you always question their judgement.
Diffense said:That I'm right is abundantly obvious.
Everything about the Wii and what they're trying to do with Wii U (down to the reason for its very name) screams Diffense is right.
It's a good thing Nintendo can sense which way the wind is blowing a bit better than its fans can.
Abundantly obvious, simple fact, not up for discussion, etc.Truth101 said:When someone says something like this you always question their judgement.
Straw man arguments ad nausem, that's all you can do, isn't it? Nobody said Wii is perfect for everybody (please quote that if someone did, I might have missed it), they just disputed your nonsensical statements about what the majority of Nintendo's output was on it, and how that compared to past systems, among other things.Diffense said:It's only Nintendo fans that run around thinking Wii is perfect for everybody.
UH OH, PEOPLE RIPPED MY ARGUMENT APART WITH LOGIC. WHAT DO I DO? OH I KNOW, I'LL MAKE UP THINGS BY SAYING CRAZY SHIT LIKE THAT. HUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUHDiffense said:It's only Nintendo fans that run around thinking Wii is perfect for everybody.
Alextended said:Straw man argument ad nausem, that's all you can do, isn't it? Nobody said Wii is perfect for everybody, they just disputed your nonsensical statements about what the majority of Nintendo's output was on it, and how that compared to past systems, among other things. I guess it was about time you pulled the fanboy card though.
Brilliant.Momo said:Diffense
Offers no defence
(Today, 06:11 PM)
Reply | Quote
No. Your list wars proved that much despite your constantly moving goal posts. Also, that's a different argument to your "majority" statements, also proven wrong.Diffense said:Their gamer-focused library on N64 outclasses that on Wii.
Maybe. They certainly alienated you. That doesn't reinforce your first line.Nintendo has alienated certain demographics on Wii because of how their resources were allocated.
And? Increasing their appeal to certain segments doesn't also mean bringing them "up" to N64 levels or that the majority of their Wii output was Wii ___ type stuff.Nintendo itself has admitted that they have to increase their appeal to certain segments and wants to address this with Wii U.
Alextended said:No. Your list wars proved that much despite your constantly moving goal posts.Maybe. They certainly alienated you. That doesn't reinforce your first line.And? Increasing their appeal to certain segments doesn't also mean bringing them up to N64 levels.
Unless you have a valid study showing less core gamers have enjoyed a Wii than those that enjoyed the N64.
You mentioned numbers and statistics, the only way to prove either way was to make a list so yes, you caused them, and then ignored the results to boot.I didn't create any list wars; that as the doing of other posters.
Yes, but they don't exactly reflect your claims.Diffense said:The Wii's issues with traditional or 'hardcore' gamers are well known.
Yes.It has been snubbed by a number of third party franchises.
Some did.Third parties do not believe the demographic for them exists on Wii.
At all is a stretch.The feedback has resulted in the demogaphic not being built at all.
False. The genesis of all this is the traditionally bad relations Nintendo has had with third parties for over a decade.The genesis of all this is the table Nintendo spread with Wii's extreme casual focus at launch and beyond.
Yes. The Wii had good years with plenty great releases, but it also had bad years. Much like past Nintendo systems.The way they allocated resources and paced things hurt them outside of the "new" market they were creating.
No, but your initial arguments weren't remotely close to these down to earth and potentially valid statements (which aren't all proven as you want to think) and were instead completely batshit insane points about what the majority of Nintendo's output has been on Wii and how that, in quantity, compares to their past systems. Nice backpedal though.These are things we know very well. Is it offensive to articulate them?
Oh no, I was really looking forward to that quote of the raging fanboy who said Wii is perfect for everyoneAnyway, it was fun but I have no more time to waste!
That's your opinion, and the mistake you're doing is assuming you can speak for every gamer interested in traditional Nintendo games.Diffense said:Their gamer-focused library on N64 outclasses that on Wii.
That's because your burning hatred for Nintendo clouds your judgement.French said:Not a lot of truth in that article.
The Dailyfinance's one was better imo.
And I'll agree with him. Nintendo has shown the last several years that they don't give a fuck about hardware and having a robust OS and online network. They're good at making fun games, but they are seriously limited by their own consoles. The games on the Wii people like to champion can and should have been much better.freddy said:Well that didn't take long.
H_Prestige said:And I'll agree with him. Nintendo has shown the last several years that they don't give a fuck about hardware and having a robust OS and online network. They're good at making fun games, but they are seriously limited by their own consoles. The games on the Wii people like to champion can and should have been much better.
If they ever went third party, I'd consider that a win/win for everyone. I see absolutely no negatives in this situation, only positives. Then again, I don't have an irrational love affair with these companies.
Nintendos games are so excellent that the company would dominate any space it enters, or so goes the conventional wisdom. But Nintendos games are excellent only because the company takes several distinct and unique approaches to making them so. One example: The company crafts its hardware and software in tandem; abandoning this practice would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Take Sega. (Please.) The brief lifespan of the Dreamcast system, the final two years that the company spent in the hardware business, was marked by an exceptional creative fecundity. Those two years produced Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Rez, Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, Seaman an avalanche of extraordinary, groundbreaking games spanning genres.
When the company said it would go platform agnostic and discontinue Dreamcast, conventional wisdom held that this was a brilliant move: The companys amazing games, now published on every platform, would surely make it one of the strongest software publishers on the planet, a sort of Japanese Electronic Arts.
Howd that all work out?
Stronger hardware and more online features might have benefitted some games, but lack of IR Pointer would've made others decidedly worse.H_Prestige said:The games on the Wii people like to champion can and should have been much better.
If Nintendo hadn't created hardware, we would've had to wait for other companies to introduce* things like the d-pad, the analog stick and the pointer, which at best would've taken longer and at worst never happen at all.H_Prestige said:If they ever went third party, I'd consider that a win/win for everyone. I see absolutely no negatives in this situation, only positives. Then again, I don't have an irrational love affair with these companies.
Aaron Strife said:[/b]If we're talking N64 vs. Wii as far as "core game" output, I'd say Wii has N64 beat by a country mile. The only thing that puts N64 in contention is Rare's output, but also I think there's a nostalgia angle at work - a lot of us were much younger when the N64 was out, and could make due with a new Mario or Zelda every six months or so. Because that was all we played. I can now beat Mario 64 in less than a week, but my first time through took me at least five years. [/b]
hatchx said:Five years to beat Mario? Sure, took me longer as a kid....but 4-5 months tops.
I think you are forgetting some of the big N64 titles. Blast Corps, Waverace, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Jet Force Gemini, Banjo, Conker, Excitebike, 1080 snowboarding, F-Zero X.
Not to mention, N64's titles used ground-breaking technology. Every game pushed the envelope in some form.
I'd say "core game" output is an argument between N64 and GCN. Wii is a distant third in my sad, humble, opinion. Doesn't mean I didn't have fun with Wii Sports, but this is the first generation where a secondary console (PS3/360) was almost required.