Hmm, at that price I'll bite, but if it was that low then expectations should be lowered as well because that seems too cheap for what everyone on hear is guessing is in the hardware and Nintendo specifically said they won't be selling at a loss.
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Nintendo NX rumored to use Nvidia's Pascal GPU architecture
- Thread starter nhlducks35
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Hmm, at that price I'll bite, but if it was that low then expectations should be lowered as well because that seems too cheap for what everyone on hear is guessing is in the hardware and Nintendo specifically said they won't be selling at a loss.
Thing is , If Nintendo weren't trying to do this hybrid thing I'd have fully expected the next handheld to barely reach Vita levels.
I do get what he/she's is saying. Besides their own IP's, Nintendo isn't really grabbing much of the western market as they could be and by proxy different arrays of games that cater to said market. i love Nintendo's games to death, but I'll die of shock if they ever make a story-driven action adventure, or an FPS, or a licensed sports titled not named Mario *______*.
lwilliams3
Member
PSVita's CPU/GPU was surprisingly more conservative than expected, so Nintendo's next-gen handheld would have likely passed it unless it has 3D and it was very cheap.Thing is , If Nintendo weren't trying to do this hybrid thing I'd have fully expected the next handheld to barely reach Vita levels.
Now, the difference could end up being an order of magnitude or higher.
Sorry if Nintendo does not create everything specifically catered to your tastes.
James Scott
Banned
They have said they wanted it to be affordable and with Wii U and 3DS launching so high I can see it. Hope for $200 which is what the 3DS is priced at and what it should have launched at
Yes, but the line from the report is just an assumption made by people. It wasn't based on anything. $200 or $250 with a pack-in of some sort could be viewed as value by consumers if it is marketed correctly with good software.
Hero of Legend
Member
You think they could bundle it with Zelda BOTW? It's crazy but it worked for Sega when they bundled Sonic 1 with the Genesis.
Yeah, especially in a market where most commonly purchased tech products range from $400-$800.
$250 might not be as "impulse-buy" as a cup of coffee, but in the tech world its damn cheap.
I do hope it's bundled with something valuable. Thing is, whatever they pack with it needs to be as universally appealing as possible. Zelda is fun, but it's not that. This new Zelda looks very involved.
Mario Kart would work
ArchedThunder
Banned
I don't know if they're that desperate, they probably stand to gain more by selling the game on its own.
No. It'll be the draw to the system and it'll sell with a near 1:1 ratio to begin with.
James Scott
Banned
It's Nintendo's biggest project. I imagine they want to make money off of it.
A $250 bundle with a $200 regular price might work, but maybe 3rd party bundles might be a better idea.
I believe an Unseen64 rumor was that EA was talking with Nintendo to see how they'd improve 3rd party relations asking for marketing deals and bundles, something Nintendo rarely does. If they can secure FIFA ports by making a bundle every year they should probably consider it.
On the topic of launching with bundles, Wii U suffered with most people not wanting the basic model making it seem more expensive across the board.
Not sure if that's an actual problem or just a Wii U one, tho
ShockingAlberto
Member
Why are people trashing Hyrule Warriors in this thread
HW was great
HW was great
SinCityAssassin
Member
It's not even everyone it's just that one guy.
James Scott
Banned
I enjoyed myself, though I'd rather not see a sequel for awhile and have another dev/publisher tackle a Zelda spin off
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
You do realize we're getting a sequel right?
James Scott
Banned
...yeah.
No clue why they decided Legends was ok, it took a huge chunk of the potential character roster while being a rough port that's very poor experience for 85% of the potential market. Kind of soured me on it
Linkle's Awakening NX
ShockingAlberto
Member
Probably a testbed to see how the portable audience would cotton to it
also I imagine much of Omega Force's major teams were working on other licensed games
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
James Scott
Banned
Hyrule Warriors 2 took a dark turn
Spiral Insanity
Banned
I don't think HWL is bad, I just suck at it.. I think it's harder than MHG.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I know some people have gotten their hopes up with near Xbox One levels of power being achievable....
....but at $199-250 price point for a device that includes a screen...
I don't think that's any way possible.
So I've tempered my expectations. Just slightly better than Wii U power. This jives with the executive's recent comment. I suspect it'll very much be a device with around mobile levels of power.
....but at $199-250 price point for a device that includes a screen...
I don't think that's any way possible.
So I've tempered my expectations. Just slightly better than Wii U power. This jives with the executive's recent comment. I suspect it'll very much be a device with around mobile levels of power.
Dark Cloud
Member
Who's HappyNintendoFan? He's been saying some interesting stuff about the NX on Twitter.
LinkedIn creeper who's friends of friends of devs on LinkedIn. Seems to think heavily of a Nintendo and Xilinx partnership (NX) as well as an AMD/x86 advocate based on his creeping of LinkedIn
James Scott
Banned
He popped up recently. Seems like he's snooping around LinkedIn and passing himself off as an insider.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I think Nintendo just needed tech that could be shared between handheld and SCD. So the SCD and handheld games share pretty much the same code. So if you buy a game on a 64GB cartridge, it's the only one you need for both mobile(handheld) and at home. Nvidia was the only company with the GPU tech that met there needs. So there no longer handheld or console dedicated teams, speeding up game development.
Basically this seems to be the case. If a Nintendo employee LinkedIn mentions X86 or some other technology, they put the pieces together and claim it is NX related.
Nah. Pascal makes far too much sense given the timelines we're dealing with, and the Digitimes info is a crock of shit either way since it says "the X1" specifically which is most certainly not the case at all.
Well yes, there is LCGeek and Iherre's posts to consider as well.
I like this summary because we want to avoid going around in circles in this thread.
We can speculate a lot of things other than power, I have no problem with that because it's a little more productive however, this thread seems very intent on more than speculating the power of the NX because it carries the hopes and dreams of some people that want a powerful Nintendo console that can get western 3rd party support etc etc otherwise "No more Nintendo!" lol
I'm not interested in how powerful I want it to be, I want to use logic and deductive reasoning here to see what best represents the NX until its reveal.
We don't have all the information so of course, so in the end. We may get gobsmacked like when the Wii U turned out to be weaker than anyone even imagined.
Going off that summary in the quote, let's just grab a few statements to make an example:
- NX is a hybrid
- NX dev kits are powered by Nvidia Tegra X1
- NX is going to use a Pascal-based chip
- NX is around Xbox One in power
- NX is much cheaper than expected
Going off statements we've read through the thread it's probably reasonable to assume that the Tegra that will be used in the NX will be customised. It's hard for me to find those quotes but Thraktor mentioned the performance of those Denver cores compared to other ARM cores and those A72, A53 etc seemed more favourable in comparison.
So it's more reasonable to speculate that the NX Tegra would be customised to just have those ARM cores in general. Doesn't matter specifying which specifically.
Next, the NX is around "Xbox one in power". We heard statements about how it should be feasible for the NX to be around 300GFLOPS when using 32-bit precision FP and that it would be within range of the power of the Xbox one if it's resolution were 540p because it is 4 times smaller than 1080p
Then, we hit a snag. How are we certain the resolution is 540p? We know Matt hinted at the resolution but this was iirc a long time before the dev kits got shipped. Specs may have changed and we haven't gotten any other sources or leaks from Eurogamer for example stating what the resolution of the screen is or its screen size.
So we can continue speculating around a 540p resolution screen, it's just it would have been nice to find out what internal resolutions the NX is outputting off the dev kit.
Then, continuing on from the Xbox one in power, we have the so called dock mode that reasonable speculation suggests that the NX is underclocked when in portable mode and then increases to its neutral clock rate when docked to give an HD resolution on a TV. This is where I said I became sceptical, it can probably do that. The problem is there's not enough information.
If it's around the power of an Xbox one, how can we be certain it will output 1080p AAA games? We know the CPU is powerful according to LCGeek but, we've got nothing about the specifics of the GPU. If we knew the dimensions of the handheld itself we could determine what kind of thermal constraints it would have.
Which then leads to the last statement, "The NX is cheaper than expected."
If the NX is cheaper than expected, probably this would be relative to the Wii U for pricing. Instead of expecting $300 to $350. It could be $180 to $250 because we have to factor in that it's suppose to be a hybrid going off the rumours and not a portable.
So then, if it is suppose to be cheap. Can we really expect something with a mobile/tablet SoC that has to run at 2W to 5W in portable mode to match the power of an Xbox one in "docked mode" when we don't know how feasible it is for it to have a cooling system if it has to increase its Wattage to match the Xbox one in power? Again, we lack information on the size of the handheld so that is one major issue. It would help to explain a lot just like the Wii U's 3 stacked DVD cases size.
Also, we can't expect some external GPU to be in the dock, we already went over that it would increase the cost. We can think that it could be possible to release it separately but, we can't be so sure that the ROI would be great for Nintendo if not many people buy that peripheral and devs are having to make two different version of the same game where the one that I assume requires more work with the external GPU has a niche userbase compared to the rest.
I guess that's all I wanted to go over. It's best taking time with these things not rushing everything in one afternoon because we don't have all the information so it's better to wait for if anything new pops up until the reveal.
Schnozberry
Member
I would trust NateDrake over Digitimes. They print shit for clicks on the regular.
http://www.cultofmac.com/168965/digitimes-we-know-we-get-apple-rumors-wrong-and-well-try-to-be-better-from-now-on/
NoPiece
Member
I agree it won't happen, but not sure price is the main issue (battery, heat, etc..). Xbox One S is $299 - you can drop the 500GB HD, the blu ray drive, and the controller, and cut RAM in half. You need to add a screen and a battery, but could still hit $250.
Hey, it's totally possible that NX is in complete development hell but somehow corrected itself over the past few weeks and moved schedules up by 3 months after making a last-minute spec change. Totally believable.
Chris Ticehurst
Member
I know this sounds crazy but are people just interested in the tech specs and not worried about the ability to market and sell products?
Well, this thread is kinda about a tech spec so...
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
That's a really good point, and perhaps you're right. Hopefully its closer to Xbox One in power than Wii U, ultimately. Though I still think it will fall a bit short.
I think Microsoft tends to 'subsidize' their hardware costs more aggressively than Nintendo, however.
Then again, maybe Nintendo really did get some sort of amazing deal from Nvidia which would allow them to offer a compelling device at a very low cost.
Skittzo0413
Member
Just want to quote this post because it's a very succint and accurate summary of the speculation in this thread. Thanks for the great write up!
Thanks, but we don't have enough information to conclude anything. If this thing was just a portable then we could declare "Damn, it's a really powerful portable." and end it there.
Since it's been stated that it's a hybrid, it just brought on a whole lot of things to speculate with very little information to go off of.
Skittzo0413
Member
If we had enough concrete information to conclude anything it wouldn't really be speculation anymore, right?
We shouldn't really judge this device as a hybrid or a portable until we know what it's being officially touted as. As of now we have a very powerful portable with the power of some multiple of Wii U's duct taped together and the potential for it to display on a TV, possibly with further upgrades, possibly without.
Yes.
Schnozberry
Member
It'll be significantly better than Wii U. At least twice as powerful and probably more. Mobile Chipsets introduced in 2014 (Snapdragon 810) already have GPUs that double the Wii U's raw performance numbers at the same clock speed, while drawing a fraction of the power.
Rumors from Semiaccurate indicate Nintendo was able to score a pretty favorable deal with Nvidia. If that's true, I don't think it will be difficult to hit their price point, provided they don't have expensive proprietary tech that drives up costs.
I think the 'around Xbox One power' is a bit of a misnomer. I wouldn't call 500 GFLOPS "around" Xbox One power, assuming that's what it'll be.
James Scott
Banned
People say 2x Wii U, is that enough for 720p games like MK8 to run at 1080? Or are there other factors at play?
I also wonder if things like Vulkan vs DX10 (OpenGL equivalent) will have a notable boost over Wii U.
Seconded.
(I am currently working on a VR game and let me tell you, turning resolution down for performance purposes when running debug does not look good at all. 540p would absolutely not work.)
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sure what other factors are relevant (maybe bandwidth or something, really just making stuff up), but a jump from 720p to 1080p is 2.25x more pixels.
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