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[LordKano]

You're holding the Joy-con too in the middle. Grab it a bit lower.

That's not it either. Look ;

The IR pointer is below the right joycon, so you have to take it in the left hand in order to point it toward the TV. That way, the stick will be above the buttons. Now, think about where the L/R and bumpers buttons would be ? You need them to play Wii games, but you cannot reach them.

That's only part of the problem. With that setup, you also would have on the left joycon (now in your right hand) the split d-pad would be above the stick. How would you emulate the 1-2 buttons that way ? They are mandatory with a lot of games.

 

[EDarkness]

That's not it either. Look ;


The IR pointer is below the right joycon, so you have to take it in the left hand in order to point it toward the TV. That way, the stick will be above the buttons. Now, think about where the L/R and bumpers buttons would be ? You need them to play Wii games, but you cannot reach them.

That's only part of the problem. With that setup, you also would have on the left joycon (now in your right hand) the split d-pad would be above the stick. How would you emulate the 1-2 buttons that way ? They are mandatory with a lot of games.

The 1 and 2 buttons were used in Wii games, but they were hardly ever used as "twitch", "fast", "repeating action" buttons unless the remote was used sideways. Since they were hard to access being at the bottom of the remote. This would be true for the buttons here. The main issue is that the A and B buttons (which were used heavily) don't have any analogs on the joycon. That could be a problem, though the trigger button on the side could be used as a B button equivalent.

 

[Metal B]

[Wrong thread]

 

[KingSnake]

That's not it either. Look ;


The IR pointer is below the right joycon, so you have to take it in the left hand in order to point it toward the TV. That way, the stick will be above the buttons. Now, think about where the L/R and bumpers buttons would be ? You need them to play Wii games, but you cannot reach them.

That's only part of the problem. With that setup, you also would have on the left joycon (now in your right hand) the split d-pad would be above the stick. How would you emulate the 1-2 buttons that way ? They are mandatory with a lot of games.

Why would you have to take it in your left hand?

You take it in you right hand upside-down and use just the face buttons and the clickable stick. That's it. What else do you need?

 

[LordKano]

Why would you have to take it in your left hand?

You take it in you right hand upside-down and use just the face buttons and the clickable stick. That's it. What else do you need?

You're not supposed to hold it that way. Look at that pic from the patent that clearly show it :

It wouldn't be comfortable to use at all, and wouldn't suit your hand. It wouldn't be a good way to play wii games.

 

[KingSnake]

You're not supposed to hold it that way. Look at that pic from the patent that clearly show it :


It wouldn't be comfortable to use at all, and wouldn't suit your hand. It wouldn't be a good way to play wii games.

That's not for IR, it's for motion controls. That's still a right hand.

This is IR:

but with the hand gripping the joycon a bit upper

 

[Pachimari]

KingSnake gets it. And because we have to hold it upside down there won't be any shoulder buttons. And the face buttons will be at the bottom.

 

[KingSnake]

KingSnake gets it. And because we have to hold it upside down there won't be any shoulder buttons. And the face buttons will be at the bottom.

Exactly. And everything is within the reach of the thumb.

 

[Pachimari]

Exactly. And everything is within the reach of the thumb.

But you can't use any of the buttons when you hold it upside down.

 

[LordKano]

That's not for IR, it's for motion controls. That's still a right hand.

This is IR:



but with the hand gripping the joycon a bit upper

Oh, you meant upside down that way. Mh, I guess that could technically work, even if it would be really weird to hold an already small joycon at half its size. I still think they will release proper joycon for the Wii virtual console.

EDIT : No, wait, that's still not possible. Assuming that's the wiimote here (because you're supposed to hold the wiimote on the right hand), how would you emulate the A button ? On the ABXY layout here ? But then it would be near impossible to correctly use the A+B combo, which is used in a lot of games, while holding this thing.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I want this thing now

 

[Skittzo0413]

But you can't use any of the buttons when you hold it upside down.

Why not? They have a closer relative placement to the analog stick than the +, -, 1 and 2 buttons on the Wiimote had to the A button.

Oh, you meant upside down that way. Mh, I guess that could technically work, even if it would be really weird to hold an already small joycon at half its size. I still think they will release proper joycon for the Wii virtual console.

EDIT : No, wait, that's still not possible. Assuming that's the wiimote here (because you're supposed to hold the wiimote on the right hand), how would you emulate the A button ? On the ABXY layout here ? But then it would be near impossible to correctly use the A+B combo, which is used in a lot of games, while holding this thing.

The analog click could be the A button, but you're right that the B trigger wouldn't exist there. I'm not sure how that would work for Wii VC.

 

[Cuningas de Häme]

You have still the side buttons if you turn it upside down. And the analog is usable as a trigger. If that's how it works, it is pretty damn neat design.

 

[Vic]

They have the joycon grip controller, though. I expect them to include only that in the base package, since it is a controller. Will personally get the pro controller, but I don't think they will drive the price up by adding a pro controller in the package.

I'm not sure anymore since it has a battery, therefore it's more expensive than excepted.

 

[JStein0222]

I'm not sure anymore since it has a battery, therefore it's more expensive than excepted.

When you google Nintendo Switch, the grip is present in almost all of the promotional materials while the Pro Controller is absent. The grip will definitely be included with the console. There is no way Nintendo's main interaction with the Switch in Console mode will be with split controllers, they won't ask consumers to do that, plus I would be worried about the battery of the joy-con WITHOUT the grip.

Edit: Ugh, now I'm doubting myself. I guess you don't NEED the grip. It just seems like an unnecessary risk.

 

[Metal B]

Random thought:

If you can play Local-Multiplayer with multiple Switches, like the NBA game in the trailer. Can we also play Local-Multiplayer, while the Switch is docked? The Splatoon segment of the official trailer kind of already showed that. This would actually be really cool, if some games have personalize systems, like Smash's Costume-Moves or Splatoon's outfits. Simply carry your Switch to a friend or a tournament and simply put it on a dock-station. You could even save replays or get other bonuses.

Tournament organizers would have it much easier, since everybody would bring there own systems and only need a few as last-minute replacements. Technically you not even need TVs. So you could just start a tournament anywhere. Would be extra funny, if Nintendo would introduce Fighting-Stick Joycons. Something like this:

 

[GameplayWhore]

You have still the side buttons if you turn it upside down. And the analog is usable as a trigger. If that's how it works, it is pretty damn neat design.

If you have the joycon turned around so that it's still upright but the IR pointer is pointing towards the screen, then the only buttons clickable by parts of your hand other than your thumb would be:

* The R button or ZR trigger, but they're at the bottom of the joycon now -- you'd have to click them with the base of your hand, where it meets the wrist, or maybe your pinky.

* The mini-L and mini-R shoulder buttons, but they're on the RIGHT side of the joycon now, so you'd have to press them with the inner portion of one of your knuckles.

While there are plenty of buttons to emulate a Wii Remote, there just doesn't seem to be anything within reach of your fingers that can easily simulate the B trigger in a way where it can be pressed while your thumb is busy on the buttons normally required for the thumb (dpad, which the stick would emulate, and the face buttons). The only buttons available that you could map to the Wii Remote B button such that your thumbs wouldn't need to move would be the mini-L and mini-R on the left joycon, accessible to the minor fingers of your left hand. I think that would technically work, but it's so different from the Wii way that I don't know Nintendo would ever set things up like that.

Edit: If I was misreading your use of "upside down", and you meant that the analog was literally pointing at the floor... that would make it a really cool trigger, actually, but we'd definitely be at a loss for buttons.

 

[sanstesy]

The upside-down IR pointer is way too cumbersome to ever be a replacement for Wii remote pointer functionality. Only feature I'm not hot on.

 

[Okami Haundo]

If you have the joycon turned around so that it's still upright but the IR pointer is pointing towards the screen, then the only buttons clickable by parts of your hand other than your thumb would be:

* The R button or ZR trigger, but they're at the bottom of the joycon now -- you'd have to click them with the base of your hand, where it meets the wrist, or maybe your pinky.

* The mini-L and mini-R shoulder buttons, but they're on the RIGHT side of the joycon now, so you'd have to press them with the inner portion of one of your knuckles.

While there are plenty of buttons to emulate a Wii Remote, there just doesn't seem to be anything within reach of your fingers that can easily simulate the B trigger in a way where it can be pressed while your thumb is busy on the buttons normally required for the thumb (dpad, which the stick would emulate, and the face buttons). The only buttons available that you could map to the Wii Remote B button such that your thumbs wouldn't need to move would be the mini-L and mini-R on the left joycon, accessible to the minor fingers of your left hand. I think that would technically work, but it's so different from the Wii way that I don't know Nintendo would ever set things up like that.

Edit: If I was misreading your use of "upside down", and you meant that the analog was literally pointing at the floor... that would make it a really cool trigger, actually, but we'd definitely be at a loss for buttons.

It amazes me just how in-depth some people are going to describe the lack of the "B" trigger button. That's literally the only thing missing here besides a more comfortable placement for the buttons/analog stick on the joycon-R. It certainly isn't physically impossible to provide the correct amount of inputs via the joycons, it just wouldn't be comfortable at all.

My bet is that the Switch will have a "Wii" style joycon that you can buy for Wii Virtual Console games, as well as support for Wii-remotes. For the latter, I don't expect the support to be openly advertised. It would have to be there solely for Wii/Wii-U owners as a secondary option. No way in hell that Nintendo recommends going to buy new Wii controllers in 2017 for the Switch.

 

[GameplayWhore]

It amazes me just how in-depth some people are going to describe the lack of the "B" trigger button. That's literally the only thing missing here besides a more comfortable placement for the buttons/analog stick on the joycon-R. It certainly isn't physically impossible to provide the correct amount of inputs via the joycons, it just wouldn't be comfortable at all.

Hah! That's just how some fans like to waste their time. I'm between games right now, so I might as well pointlessly speculate and make svg mockups. To wit,

Frankly, I'm surprised that I'm in a long-term, committed relationship with a fruitful job and a house and car and stuff. You'd think my various obsessions would have made for an early end.

My bet is that the Switch will have a "Wii" style joycon that you can buy for Wii Virtual Console games, as well as support for Wii-remotes. For the latter, I don't expect the support to be openly advertised. It would have to be there solely for Wii/Wii-U owners as a secondary option. No way in hell that Nintendo recommends going to buy new Wii controllers in 2017 for the Switch.

I could see that, but for some reason I feel like Nintendo might not have a Wii VC option, at least not for a while after release. A recent video posted of the X1 running Dolphin showed it working GameCube game with relative ease but really sputtering on Wii games. While it's not the same hardware, and while Nintendo can probably tweak their emulators closer to the metal, I feel it's portentious enough to ruminate on. On top of that, if the Switch is pretty darn successful, the Wii is still big enough in the memory of some subset of the greater market that they might get away with upscaled or expanded ports of more popular Wii titles, much as they're doing with Wii U games, albeit for a nearly diametrically opposite reason.

 

[Cuningas de Häme]

Edit: If I was misreading your use of "upside down", and you meant that the analog was literally pointing at the floor... that would make it a really cool trigger, actually, but we'd definitely be at a loss for buttons.

Yeah, I meant this

One need to remember that the left 'Con has more buttons than Nunchuk. So Wii BC should be doable that way.

A and B on the right one, all the rest on the left...

But nah, I don't think it works like that, now that I'm looking the patent picture. Analog is in the middle, it would be tricky to use it.

And I the patent said that the IR could be used to read person's pulse. So it is most likely for that and not for Wii-esque control method.

Would be more likely to have a different controller for that kind of gaming.

 

[Terrell]

Guys, guys... you're over-complicating the IR issue.

There's more than right side up and upside down as options.

Turn it sideways, with the outside edge facing up, IR towards the screen, thumb rested on top. The round edges still rest comfortably against your palm, your pinky and ring finger having access to one shoulder button and your pointer finger having access to the other. The only thing you end up missing is the D-Pad, which was rarely used in pointer-based games.

Problem solved.

 

[Pachimari]

Guys, guys... you're over-complicating the IR issue.

There's more than right side up and upside down as options.

Turn it sideways, with the outside edge facing up, IR towards the screen, thumb rested on top. The round edges still rest comfortably against your palm, your pinky and ring finger having access to one shoulder button and your pointer finger having access to the other. The only thing you end up missing is the D-Pad, which was rarely used in pointer-based games.

Problem solved.

But why would you hold it sideways?

 

[Terrell]

But why would you hold it sideways?

Sorry, should have said "turn it 45 degrees from a face up position".

People are arguing that there's no possible way to achieve both optimal comfort and button access. This resolves both, aside from the D-Pad access as I mentioned.

 

[MoonFrog]

I'm confused about this whole problem . Is the debate whether JoyCons can replicate Wiimotes? Does it seem the can't?

What's this 45 degree idea? I'm visualizing it as back to palm, analogue stick jutting out from palm for thumb access...but wouldn't thumb need to be on the shoulder button? Or could pointer finger handle that? If you flipped it around, successive fingers could get the "inside" buttons instead, but then nothing could get the outside ones? Hmmm... was thinking perhaps inside ones replace 1+2 and the outside ones serve as B. Clicking stick could be A? But I don't think this can work....

And I am confused what is even the issue at stake.

 

[xochipiltontli]

Yeah, they should have released the Switch instead of the famicom. Hire me Nintendo I can use the future to power the past.

Yeah! Except that's not what I said. Portable tech was stronger than the Wii in 2012 to a similar extent that portable tech is stronger than the Wii U now, and it's not like the concept of a console utilizing a tablet was an unforeseeable idea (see: Wii U), nor was the idea of merging Nintendo's development teams onto one single platform. Commenting on how Nintendo's vision for the system may be a bit late is a relevant thing to question in a thread focused on the system. It'll be interesting to see how things play out (and I really hope it works out for Nintendo).

As for the IR pointer and Wiimote replication, I can't see a scenario where it'd actually be practical, and I'm kind of confused as to why it's even there. Assuming each joy-con had its own gyro, is it possible that they could replace the pointer using the left joy-con's motion controls? I'm not familiar with Dolphin, so I'm not sure if it's even feasible to use an alternative hardware solution for IR pointing emulation.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Guys, guys... you're over-complicating the IR issue.

There's more than right side up and upside down as options.

Turn it sideways, with the outside edge facing up, IR towards the screen, thumb rested on top. The round edges still rest comfortably against your palm, your pinky and ring finger having access to one shoulder button and your pointer finger having access to the other. The only thing you end up missing is the D-Pad, which was rarely used in pointer-based games.

Problem solved.

I think the patent talked about an attachment in which you place the joycon, so presumably that will have all of the Wiimote buttons and ergonomics. I think anything else (specifically to replicate Wiimote functionality) won't really work with just the standard joycon R.

 

[Vic]

When you google Nintendo Switch, the grip is present in almost all of the promotional materials while the Pro Controller is absent. The grip will definitely be included with the console. There is no way Nintendo's main interaction with the Switch in Console mode will be with split controllers, they won't ask consumers to do that, plus I would be worried about the battery of the joy-con WITHOUT the grip.

Edit: Ugh, now I'm doubting myself. I guess you don't NEED the grip. It just seems like an unnecessary risk.

Seems that there's no battery in the grip after all. This video explains it well: https://youtu.be/vImxcwEXE6o?t=15m

 

[Branduil]

All this debate about using the IR as a Wii remote substitute proves is that it's way too complicated and cumbersome to actually work like that. It will be a substitute for the touchscreen when the system is docked and that's it.

Real Wiimote emulation will require an alternative joycon.

 

[Lutherian]

All this debate about using the IR as a Wii remote substitute proves is that it's way too complicated and cumbersome to actually work like that. It will be a substitute for the touchscreen when the system is docked and that's it.

Real Wiimote emulation will require an alternative joycon.

Or just Wiimotes. I mean, Nintendo just need to keep selling Wiimotes and Nunchuk and... that's it.

 

[Peltz]

Again, that's not the point. The numbers of button is not the problem, it's about how they're placed.

If there is an IR pointer on the bottom, it's probably going to be held "dart" style like this:

Not laser pointer style like this:

If this is correct, I think it's a bad move, honestly. The Wii remote design is so well-thought out in my humble opinion.

We really need to wait and see how these things are supposed to work.

 

[Pachimari]

Sorry, should have said "turn it 45 degrees from a face up position".

People are arguing that there's no possible way to achieve both optimal comfort and button access. This resolves both, aside from the D-Pad access as I mentioned.

But we are talking about holding it as a Wiimote, not like a traditional controller. In order to point at the screen and swing around your arms.

All this debate about using the IR as a Wii remote substitute proves is that it's way too complicated and cumbersome to actually work like that. It will be a substitute for the touchscreen when the system is docked and that's it.

Real Wiimote emulation will require an alternative joycon.

I'm not even sure it'll function as a touchscreen emulator. I think it'll only be used to scan your vein and pulse to log you into the system and store.

 

[Skittzo0413]

All this debate about using the IR as a Wii remote substitute proves is that it's way too complicated and cumbersome to actually work like that. It will be a substitute for the touchscreen when the system is docked and that's it.

Real Wiimote emulation will require an alternative joycon.

Yeah the patent application mostly talks about using the IR for gesture recognition and hand vein-scanning identification. I'd imagine they'll release an attachment or alternative joycon for Wii compatibility.

 

[KingSnake]

I really hope that Switch gets the a port of the PS4 version of DQXI, because it looks so damn good.

Also, I wonder if it will get the new Dynasty Warriors game.

 

[Branduil]

I really hope that Switch gets the a port of the PS4 version of DQXI, because it looks so damn good.

Also, I wonder if it will get the new Dynasty Warriors game.

I can't see how it would be anything but the PS4 version. The Switch should be more than capable, and it can't really do the split 3D/2D of the 3DS version.

 

[BMOFTW]

With all the leaks and patents recently, have we have any clue or a clear idea if the Switch will have any kind of Dolby or DTS support?.Or are we going to be limited to LPCM again like the Wii U?

 

[RootCause]

Any rumors on VC tittles working on switch?

 

[Pachimari]

I really don't think the IR is gonna replicate Wii controls anymore. I think it'll only be used for scanning your vein and pulse.

 

[KingSnake]

With all the leaks and patents recently, have we have any clue or a clear idea if the Switch will have any kind of Dolby or DTS support?.Or are we going to be limited to LPCM again like the Wii U?

No mention at all in the recent patents.

Any rumors on VC tittles working on switch?

Gamecube VC at launch.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I really don't think the IR is gonna replicate Wii controls anymore. I think it'll only be used for scanning your vein and pulse.

Yeah same here

 

[RobFox64tm]

With all the leaks and patents recently, have we have any clue or a clear idea if the Switch will have any kind of Dolby or DTS support?.Or are we going to be limited to LPCM again like the Wii U?

Why would you want those compressed formats over the lossless quality of multi channel LPCM?

If it's a matter of wanting a fiber optic connector, the patents show the dock has a power output, HDMI, and three "terminal outputs" I believe is what they were called, and it's assumed those are USB ports.

 

[Platy]

Wait the IR thing is on the BACK of the controller ?

Yeah, the Wii U basically had a Wii inside it just like the Wii had a Gamecube inside it, so it played those games via BC rather than emulation.

However, if the Switch can emulate Gamecube games then it's very, very likely that it can also emulate Wii games. So I'd expect Wii VC games.

Also the wii inside the wiiu has the gamecube inside it, which is why you can still use nintendon't on vwii

 

[BMOFTW]

Why would you want those compressed formats over the lossless quality of multi channel LPCM?

If it's a matter of wanting a fiber optic connector, the patents show the dock has a power output, HDMI, and three "terminal outputs" I believe is what they were called, and it's assumed those are USB ports.

I ask because the portable nature of the console and the option to have multiple docks in different TVs. I think is hard to always find a LPCM ready receiver or have one with each TV, but I think most people have older HTS systems with Dolby and DTS making it easier to always have Sorround sound of some kindin any TV You're playing

 

[RootCause]

No mention at all in the recent patents.



Gamecube VC at launch.

That's pretty good. is it safe to expect the current vc system/tittles to be available for the switch? Even DS, and N64?

 

[Neoxon]

Random thought:

If you can play Local-Multiplayer with multiple Switches, like the NBA game in the trailer. Can we also play Local-Multiplayer, while the Switch is docked? The Splatoon segment of the official trailer kind of already showed that. This would actually be really cool, if some games have personalize systems, like Smash's Costume-Moves or Splatoon's outfits. Simply carry your Switch to a friend or a tournament and simply put it on a dock-station. You could even save replays or get other bonuses.

Tournament organizers would have it much easier, since everybody would bring there own systems and only need a few as last-minute replacements. Technically you not even need TVs. So you could just start a tournament anywhere. Would be extra funny, if Nintendo would introduce Fighting-Stick Joycons. Something like this:

Cool idea, but I would probably have the Switch itself be proper up perpendicular to the stick. Not to mention that it should probably stick with Sanwa parts rather than what you have.

As for the game example, MvCI would probably be a better reference point since it at least has a ghost of a chance of being on the Switch (as mentioned before, Sony has SFV on lock-down).

 

[LordKano]

The Switch seems to be already in a better shape on the JRPG side, since it will have Dragon Quest XI, Xenoblade 3, Pokémon Stars, Xenoblade X, and possibly Dark Souls 3.

That's a good step from the Wii U who had Xenoblade X and Tokyo Mirage Sessions lol.

 

[EDarkness]

The Switch seems to be already in a better shape on the JRPG side, since it will have Dragon Quest XI, Xenoblade 3, Pokémon Stars, Xenoblade X, and possibly Dark Souls 3.

That's a good step from the Wii U who had Xenoblade X and Tokyo Mirage Sessions lol.

Definitely. I'm looking forward to seeing what other JP studios are bringing in the way of RPGs. I hope we end up getting a ton of them on the system.

 

[Vena]

That's a good step from the Wii U who had Xenoblade X and Tokyo Mirage Sessions lol.

Best jRPGs of the generation? >.>

 

[Skittzo0413]

The Switch seems to be already in a better shape on the JRPG side, since it will have Dragon Quest XI, Xenoblade 3, Pokémon Stars, Xenoblade X, and possibly Dark Souls 3.

That's a good step from the Wii U who had Xenoblade X and Tokyo Mirage Sessions lol.

DQXI and BotW is essentially enough to carry me through the entirety of 2017... Pokemon Stars and any sort of Dark Souls is just gravy at that point.

I'm wondering why they didn't really mention the Switch version of DQXI at the event though (it was mentioned briefly as "still coming"). I wonder if it will be featured heavily at the January event.

 

[EDarkness]

DQXI and BotW is essentially enough to carry me through the entirety of 2017... Pokemon Stars and any sort of Dark Souls is just gravy at that point.

I'm wondering why they didn't really mention the Switch version of DQXI at the event though (it was mentioned briefly as "still coming"). I wonder if it will be featured heavily at the January event.

I'm guessing that's the case. I wouldn't even be surprised if we see that version in action, too. No way Nintendo isn't going to be pimping that game hard.