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[Sandfox]

That's because when SE brought the DQ4 and 5 remakes over they did very little to advertise them and they sold poorly because of that. NoA did better marketing for 6 and 9.

Even then every DQ game published recently besides 9 sold pretty bad from what we've heard so it wasn't just SE doing something right while Nintendo did something right.

 

[foltzie1]

Explain NoA trying to open up to Smash community and encouraging the Splatoon community to grow into a competitive thing. They even used a quote from The Rapture, a competitive Smash player and now competitive Splatoon player and owner of Squidboards in one of their videos about the August update. Explain the Nintendo World Championships that JC said that it was a love letter to every Nintendo fan and they put all their effort into that.

Bill Trinen was even at a Smash tournament himself just a week ago during SGDQ. He and other Nintendo employees didn't do interviews but they were smashing away with everyone there. For all I know you might even see a Treehouse employee at a GDQ next year. I know someone there really wants to attend and even wants to learn to speed run ICO and other obscure games.

Currently NoA is localizing everything and expanding their localization team. They also want to be a part of the communities more. Before now, Nintendo was this super secret company (still largely are) but in the time span between then in now, much has changed and they're being more open and trying to reconnect with the gaming communities.

Nintendo (and NOA) may be getting better, but even now they are a black box and provide little direction on how things work or decisions made. The New 3DS wasn't released, there is still massive disparity in the Virtual Console releases and there is still a large number of localized titles not released.

Better? Yes. Beyond reproach? Absolutely not.

 

[Nanashrew]

Nintendo (and NOA) may be getting better, but even now they are a black box and provide little direction on how things work or decisions made. The New 3DS wasn't released, there is still massive disparity in the Virtual Console releases and there is still a large number of localized titles not released.

Better? Yes. Beyond reproach? Absolutely not.

I understand why the new 3DS wasn't brought over. It wouldn't sell. Look at Australia and EU right now and see how poorly New 3DS is selling compared to New 3DS XL. Small 3DS's are not wanted in the markets and the people who bought the small one are the smallest niche which is probably costing them money. That was a business decision and an understandable one that would have no reward, only debt.

Virtual Console, I agree with you.

 

[Effect]

They also didn't release Bravely Second, so it was pretty obviously just lip service.

When they made that comment after Bravely Default I didn't believe it for a second. This is pretty much why people are looking to Sony and/or Nintendo when it comes to Dragon Quest 11. I don't for a second believe that game is getting localized without either or both of those platform holders actually putting money down for the localization and publishing. Square Enix gives off the impression they would be happy to just have Japanese sales for that game. I'm also not all convinced that money didn't change hands between Sony and Square Enix to get Dragon Quest Heroes released outside of Japan. If it's not Final Fantasy I don't think Square Enix cares if it stays Japan only. Even then I think that only gets released outside of Japan now by them because that's likely where a significant part of sales for the series is but mainly they sink so much money and time into the games now they simply can't afford not to release them world wide.

 

[tbd]

Japanese only dubs sell significantly less and could have been Xenoblade's death bed had they opted for that.

And they're significantly cheaper + get released before the hype is 100 % dead. Not to mention that it will sell like shit anyway.

Then again, even with English dubs the gap between the date on which the Japanese version was released and our release is laughable. Localization should have begun sooner if that's the issue.

I'm completely spoiled by friends who already play it but even more by the internet, even though I even tend to avoid respective threads.

 

[Nanashrew]

And they're significantly cheaper + get released before the hype is 100 % dead. Not to mention that it will sell like shit anyway.

Then again, even with English dubs the gap between the date on which the Japanese version was released and our release is laughable. Localization should have begun sooner if that's the issue.

I'm completely spoiled by friends who already play it but even more by the internet, even though I even tend to avoid respective threads.

Xenoblade X was only released this year in April in Japan and has a December 4th release date for this year in the west though. That's not too long to be honest and that is the kind of game you would want for a holiday season.

 

[blanco21]

Even then every DQ game published recently besides 9 sold pretty bad from what we've heard so it wasn't just SE doing something right while Nintendo did something right.

i don't understand why the ds dq games did so poorly. dbz artist on the cover, most popular system, nice graphics/music....i guess kids hate jrpgs?

 

[Agent Unknown]

Admittedly, I've only read the quoted text, so maybe I'm not getting the full picture, but if I was a NA consumer, I wouldn't appreciate the tone of his language.

I get the point and understand that there are people out there who are just as he characterises, but there will be plenty more who are just gaming enthusiasts and who want to see the games they like brought to their market. That enthusiasm should be celebrated and, where ever possible, supported - not charicatured and mocked.

Those are the people who will buy your console for a specific franchise or game style and will then buy a load more games to fill in the gaps. They will explore your library and learn about your brand before communicating to others about it. They are your core audience and they will make sure your console survives through bad strategic decisions and lean sales periods.

NOA would do well to take a leaf out of NOE's book when it comes to looking after your customers. Not that they're perfect, but I seldom find myself feeling poorly served by them and while their communication tends to stay strictly on point, at least it doesn't resort to the patronising missives that seem to always be readily available from some NOA rep.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And it's very interesting hearing what a NOE fan thinks of this as a contrast. The tone and the attitude leaves a bad taste in your mouth no matter what side of the pond you're on. I've said it before other times and in other threads, I've never seen a game company with an attitude as antagonistic and dirisive towards its fans as
post N64 era NOA. The whole branch needs a shakeup (Bill Trinen for NOA president, pls).

 

[akachan ningen]

So why not localize some of them with subtitles only and just sell them digitally? Is it still too risky?

 

[Vena]

So why not localize some of them with subtitles only and just sell them digitally? Is it still too risky?

In 2012 the Wii had a nonexistent online presence.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Not localising something with english/native languages is a automatic death sentence. They at least wanted to try and make rhythm heaven and xenoblade a success, which is why it was dubbed.

If xenoblade had no english dub, you're automatically relegating it to the small Japanophile audience, which despite what you think, is absolutely not a vast majority.

In this day and age? I don't buy this at all and think it's surprising some people in the thread keep pushing this. Look at how successful Dragonball Z is, a HUGE subset of the NA fan base has been watching it in nothing but the Japanese voice cast + subtitles for over 15 years now, that's a lot of money. I even watch my TOHO Godzilla library and Gamera movies subbed whenever I can, hearing an imported property in its native language greatly enhances the flavor of the presentation and also fosters interest in the culture.

A game like Xenoblade is not going to be passed over by a huge number of the people it's targeted to if it retains Japanese voices as long as it's subtitled. And for those who are either outside the game's base or on the fringes, putting a simple LABEL on the back to the effect of "Please note this game's story sequences features Japanese voices actors with a choice of English or Spanish subtitles" would easily solve this.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

I think, made the point that NOA's localization record was particularly terrible during the Wii era. That says a lot because they were tremendously successful at that time and could have afforded to expand the Wii's library. It's hard to believe that localizing Xenoblade for the extremely popular Wii was a much more intolerable risk than bringing Baten Kaitos to American Gamecubes. Nobody's life was at stake. IMO, they simply lost interest in catering to certain gamers because those people were now a much smaller proportion of Nintendo's newly "expanded" audience. It's not that Xenoblade was too risky; rather, NOA thought it wasn't worth the risk. There's a difference.

Yep. You're not the only one believing this. After the massive success of games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Wii Play, Nintendo concentrated more and more their efforts on the "expanded" audience as you're saying, blue ocean strategy/casual audience in other words, and set their direction mostly toward this audience. Core orientated games, altough important, were no longer a priority. It wasn't important for them, if a game like Wii Sports Resort was selling millions and selling the blue ocean idea they were promoting, to publish a game like Xenoblade (or any niche core game thereof).

It seems like NOA bought the blue ocean strategy more than NCL and NoE, were keener to promote it and unwilling to support anything contrasting it unless it was a big Nintendo IP. That's why the contrast in comparison to NoE's localization efforts.

 

[Smushroomed]

Couldn't have said it better myself. And it's very interesting hearing what a NOE fan think of this as a contrast. The tone and the attitude leaves a bad taste in your mouth no matter what side of the pond you're on. I've said it before other times and in other threads, I've never seen a game company with an attitude as antagonistic and dirisive towards its fans as
post N64 era NOA. The whole branch needs a shakeup (Bill Trinen for NOA president, pls).

The American market is extremely fickle. You can't think of x game in a vacuum, in which video game purchases are only video game purchases. As Americans we are bombarded by different ways to spend our money, be it movies, video games, clothing, cable tv, just like any other 1st world market. Translated JRPGS are similar to subtitled foreign films. They are niche titles that do not appeal to the cod/madden crowd and are therfore a bigger risk.

It was easy for NOE to translate xenoblade into english, because most euro countries have English as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th language, therefore a bigger market. Americans primary speak English with their home language if they are immigrants. NOA had a greater risk of failure translated a jrpg, a genre which is not in high demand. I'm sure the only success from operation waterfall or whatever was xenolade and last story, etc lost money

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Nintendo will probably release Xenoblade on the eshop or something because I just paid quite a bit for a copy.

 

[H.Protagonist]

So why not localize some of them with subtitles only and just sell them digitally? Is it still too risky?

Because it has even less of a chance of even meeting modest sales numbers. So, yes. Not meeting expectations = risky.

The cost cutting measures of 1) removing voices (no fan is happy with content cut), 2) not dubbing, 3) forgoing physical, etc. are not generally equal or greater to what companies need to justify a project. Additionally, some of these options are often not even possible sometimes, such a using the Japanese voices overseas due to licensing.

As I've mentioned before on that topic:

You say that Japanese-only is fine for you, but a publisher loses a significant chunk of sales if there is not an English dub. Is it worth it for the company to release a game with so much of their potential audience written off? Not usually. There are exceptions, of course (companies with smaller expectations for one), but it can have a huge impact on your sales/audience reached. If a company were aiming for a dual release (digi and physical) then a dub is almost always needed because it's difficult to get store placement otherwise.

And, as others have said, the voices are not often even licensable for an NA/EU release.

Please see Tom's posts for more info.

You would also still need to assign numerous personal/time to a project that isn't going bring anything in and precludes them from working on more profitable projects. It just isn't feasible for some companies.

 

[Sandfox]

In this day and age? I don't buy this at all and think it's surprising some people in the thread keep pushing this. Look at how successful Dragonball Z is, a HUGE subset of the NA fan base has been watching it in nothing but the Japanese voice cast + subtitles for over 15 years now, that's a lot of money. I even watch my TOHO Godzilla library and Gamera movies subbed whenever I can, hearing an imported property in its native language greatly enhances the flavor of the presentation and also fosters interest in the culture.

A game like Xenoblade is not going to be passed over by a huge number of the people it's targeted to if it retains Japanese voices as long as it's subtitled. And for those who are either outside the game's base or on the fringes, putting a simple LABEL on the back to the effect of "Please note this game's story sequences features Japanese voices actors with a choice of English or Spanish subtitles" would easily solve this.

I'm pretty sure that is completely false.

Also, the community of people watching subbed toku in the west, much less pay for it, is smaller than you seem to think so I don't get that comparison

 

[Agent Unknown]

the guy gives it as straight as possible and you're still in denial? hey, remember when Nintendo went hard with DQ9 in the West and barely broke a million? well, they do. and that didn't even have voice!

Hey look, it's jooey. DQ 9 MADE A PROFIT IN THE WEST AND WAS A SUCCESSFUL DS TITLE IN NA AND EU. In denial? Maybe you're just deliberately ignorant? Seriously, do some objective research before you spout off your usual thread trolling drive-by crank shtick.

Edit:

1.02 million total for U.S. And EU as of Jan 2011, yeah that was surely a total profit failure and not worth localizing in the give-it-straight-universe:

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/01/27/heres-how-much-dragon-quest-ix-sold-overseas

Edit:

5.3 million worldwide as of March 2011:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dragon-quest-ix-sales-top-53-million/1100-6304548/

 

[Nanashrew]

Hey look, it's jooey. DQ 9 MADE A PROFIT IN THE WEST AND WAS A SUCCESSFUL DS TITLE. Seriously, do some research before you spout off your usual thread trolling drive-by crank shtick.

Square Enix don't care though, I guess. Your narrative of antagonism from localization is tiresome. There were even some who work in localization in this very thread who understood what Pranger said and that they too have and will have to make these kinds of decisions all the time throughout their career. They have to calculate risk and sometimes big games and small games are not worth it because of the very different markets making them high risk. Not many even have the luxury to have a branch take the hit on really large localization or even willing too. You have this narrative in your head that Pranger was mean, when he only spoke the truth that every localizer or employee has said in whatever company you look up too.

Do you truly honestly think they don't want to localize the games you enjoy? Do you really believe that they don't want your money or that they don't want you as a customer or a fan? They all do.

Also, are you even paying attention to current NoA and what all they have been doing to try to reconnect with fans and gaming communities? Have you noticed that they have been localizing nearly everything coming out for their systems currently? There is probably the tiniest handful of games that probably never made it to the west this generation compared to any generation before it.

 

[TFRazorsaw]

Nintendo (and NOA) may be getting better, but even now they are a black box and provide little direction on how things work or decisions made. The New 3DS wasn't released, there is still massive disparity in the Virtual Console releases and there is still a large number of localized titles not released.

Better? Yes. Beyond reproach? Absolutely not.

3DS sales: /are tepid in the US with the release of the 3DS, don't take off until the release of the XL
Nintendo: Well then, I guess it makes most sense to focus on the N3DS XL in the US.
Fans: NO U GAIS IT WILL TOTALLY SELL WELL REALLY

 

[Agent Unknown]

Present day doesn't matter.

Only 2012!

"B-b-but 2012 and you guys are ignoring present day!!" Sorry, but do you have any idea how obtuse and weak this ad nauseum repeated strawman of yours sounds? Right, obviously that was 2012 and their localization practices have gotten better since then and apparently he wasn't there at the time which is the entire point of why it's not smart of him as a company rep to troll fans three years after the fact and act like he thinks it was a good move to turn their nose at NA fans and drag their heels on Xenoblade when we now know it's a successful enough brand to be on N3DS, Smash and a Wii U fall AAA title. Nobody is saying they haven't made some improvements localization choice wise, the problem is that it's disappointing and downright surprising someone like Pranger whose entire job revolves around localization duties would have such an insulting tone and attitude. Hopefully he is in the minority at NOA but for now, this doesn't seem to bode well for how NOA will handle fanbase needs for NX. I'm a budding JRPG fan and I will tell you right now that I will get a PS4 and DQ 11 if SE and NOA resist bringing over either the 3DS or NX version.

 

[Best Nintendo Fan Ever]

This guy and everyone at NOA seem to live in their own little bubble.

Yeah let's blame the fans.

They deserve the amount of sales they've gotten. What a waste.

 

[KiTA]

1.02 million total for U.S. And EU as of Jan 2011, yeah that was surely a total profit failure and not worth localizing in the give-it-straight-universe:

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/01/27/heres-how-much-dragon-quest-ix-sold-overseas

The problem is -- with all the overhead Square Enix US brings to the table, would 1.02 million units be profitable for them?

 

[Nanashrew]

"B-b-but 2012 and you guys are ignoring present day!!" Sorry, but do you have any idea how obtuse and weak this ad nauseum repeated strawman of yours sounds? Right, obviously that was 2012 and their localization practices have gotten better since than and apparently he wasn't there at the time which is the entire point of why it's not smart of him as a company rep to troll fans three years after the fact and act like he thinks it was a good move to turn their nose at NA fans and drag their heels on Xenoblade when we now know it's a successful enough brand to be on N3DS, Smash and a Wii U fall AAA title. Nobody is saying they haven't made some improvements localization choice wise, the problem is that someone like Pranger whose entire job revolves around localization duties would have such an insulting tone and attitude. Hopefully he is in the minority at NOA but for now, this doesn't seem to bode well for how NOA will handle fanbase needs for NX. I'm a budding JRPG fan and I will tell you right now that I will get the PS4 and DQ 11 if SE and NOA resist bringing over either the 3DS or NX version.

Congrats on ignoring the market then! That DQ 5.3 million worldwide figure out does Ni no Kuni and Xenoblade combined! You don't get why anyone would consider a console JRPG a risk at all!

 

[Plinko]

Nintendo will probably release Xenoblade on the eshop or something because I just paid quite a bit for a copy.

They already did in Europe, no?

 

[Agent Unknown]

Congrats on ignoring the market then! That DQ 5.3 million worldwide figure out does Ni no Kuni and Xenoblade combined! You don't get why anyone would consider a console JRPG a risk at all!

Please stop trying to splice up and downplay the main points and customer related benefits of localization with these tiresome arbitrary "example X vs example Y" devil's advocate narratives. If we're going to play that game, was Ni No Kuni a waste of time for Sony's western branches? And if you don't think it was a waste, then what's your point here other than defending NOA's past practices and rationalizations? If SCEA decides to help localize DQ 11 (based on DQ Heroes they surely will) and NOA doesn't, will that be a waste of time for SCEA when that spurs RPG fans to buy a PS4? Was DQ 8 a waste of time for both SCEA and SCEE's fan bases when that sold below a million in the west? No, because despite that, it surely still made a profit and helped foster the image at the time that the PS2 was THE go-to system for JRPGs in the early 2000s which either way you cut it was a win for Sony and their customers as a whole.

As has been said many times by others like Shocking Alberto, risk taking and being willing to take the occasional hit on non AAA sales number games is how you cultivate a fanbase which customers like us appreciate and those costs are recouped by other titles if necessary.

Is NOA getting better? Yes. But they have a LOT of work to do attitude and approach wise if Mr, Pranger's tone and toxically stubborn opinion on Xenoblade is a reflection of the overall culture there.

 

[Sandfox]

Please stop trying to splice up and downplay the main points and benefits of localization with these tiresome arbitrary "example X vs example Y" devil's advocate narratives. If we're going to play that game, was Ni No Kunk a waste of time for Sony's western branches? If you don't think it was a waste, then what's your point here other than defending NOA's past practices? If SCEA decides to help localize DQ 11 (based on DQ Heroes they surely will) and NOA doesn't, will that be a waste of time for SCEA when that spurs RPG fans to buy a PS4? Was DQ 8 a waste of time for both SCEA and SCEE's fan bases when that sold below a million in the west? No, because despite that, it surely still made a profit and helped foster the image at the time that the PS2 was THE go-to system for JRPGs in the early 2000s which either way you cut it was a win for Sony and their customers as a whole.

As has been said many times by others like Shocking Alberto, risk taking and being willing to take the occasional hit on non AAA sales number games is how you cultivate a fanbase which feels appreciate and those costs are recouped by other titles if necessary.

Why are you comparing a huge franchise like DQ to a new IP that is probably a bigger localization project? Also, I don't understand the point of bringing up the PS2 when JRPGs actually did better back then.
I'm glad Xenoblade came over, but I can understand why Pranger said that this type of game doesn't pull in sales to justify the costs. All he said is that some people don't understand that fanbases for certain games/genres are too small for them to bring projects over and people are acting like he spit in their faces.

 

[Agent Unknown]

'Just look at these people' is not how a modern game company should be viewing any segment of an eager and loyal fanbase.

Why are you comparing a huge franchise like DQ to a new IP that is probably a bigger localization project? Also, I don't understand the point of bringing up the PS2 when JRPGs actually did better back then.
I'm glad Xenoblade came over, but I can understand why Pranger said that this type of game doesn't pull in sales to justify the costs. All he said is that some people don't understand that fanbases for certain games/genres are too small for them to bring projects over and people are acting like he spit in their faces.

It's already been broken down in detail here repeatedly as to why Xenoblade was a TERRIBLE example for him to use. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

 

[Sandfox]

Again, Xenoblade was a TERRIBLE example for him to use. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

How was it a terrible example? Nintendo is making moves to try and push the series, but that doesn't mean the game was any less of a financial risk.

 

[Diffense]

Anything you spend money on up front and hope to make a profit on after sales is a financial risk. Please stop saying that Xenoblade was a financial risk therefore it shouldn't have been localized. Say that NOA wasn't willing to take the risk. That puts the blame where it belongs.

 

[Nanashrew]

Please stop trying to splice up and downplay the main points and customer related benefits of localization with these tiresome arbitrary "example X vs example Y" devil's advocate narratives. If we're going to play that game, was Ni No Kuni a waste of time for Sony's western branches? And if you don't think it was a waste, then what's your point here other than defending NOA's past practices? If SCEA decides to help localize DQ 11 (based on DQ Heroes they surely will) and NOA doesn't, will that be a waste of time for SCEA when that spurs RPG fans to buy a PS4? Was DQ 8 a waste of time for both SCEA and SCEE's fan bases when that sold below a million in the west? No, because despite that, it surely still made a profit and helped foster the image at the time that the PS2 was THE go-to system for JRPGs in the early 2000s which either way you cut it was a win for Sony and their customers as a whole.

As has been said many times by others like Shocking Alberto, risk taking and being willing to take the occasional hit on non AAA sales number games is how you cultivate a fanbase which feels appreciate and those costs are recouped by other titles if necessary.

Is NOA getting better? Yes. But they have a LOT of work to do attitude and approach wise if Mr, Pranger's tone and toxically stubborn opinion on Xenoblade is a reflection of the overall culture there.

I heard nothing wrong in Pranger's tone, you've been called out on this who knows how many times. I listened to the podcast already and heard nothing wrong. You even tried to say that he was dumping on smash fans but he was not. You keep trying to spin this that he is in the wrong for a business decision he wasn't around for since he wasn't working their yet. In hindsight the game sold well now, but it could have very well been a risk AT THAT TIME. JRPGs did well on consoles in the past but not anymore. they all moved to handhelds. Get your head into that time and notice the market shifting heavily to handhelds and noticing a huge drop off in people purchasing console JRPGs and drop off of publishers and devs on consoles altogether.

Nothing said was anything at all antagonistic, wrong or toxic but you seem to think it is. You seem to think you're right but only in hindsight that something went well when MOST of the time it does not. Petitions rarely work and more often if a company caters to those demands that thing bombs huge because there wasn't enough people.

What if Xenoblade failed? What if it bombed hard after its localization like most petitions do. Why did we not get a lot of console games in the west? Because sometimes it's not worth the risk and losing tons and tons amounts of money. Look at the previous generation and how many studios went under. Look at the problems that generation had, look at the problems that still persist in this generation, look at the market and why things are considered a gigantic risk for some and why they would even think about not localizing something.

Toxic though? No, that's the current instability of this industry and trying to understand the risks and the very different regional markets.

I understand the point of being willing to take a risk for the sake of growing an install base, I agreed with Shocking Alberto's points on growing one and I understand the logic. But you can't seem to understand why it was even considered a risk and call it toxic.

Simple fact of the matter is Xenoblade was a financial risk and there is no erasing that. It was a AAA JRPG in a time where that was dying off outside a tiny few publishers like Square Enix.

What if the next Dragon Quest never comes to the west? What if the 3DS continues to outsell the console versions by a huge margin? Why is Dragon Quest multiplatform now when it has never been before? The market has changed a great deal and there are many more risks involved more than ever. You seem to be ignoring that by going on this crusade when every company is having the same problems and have said the same exact things that Pranger has time and time again.


Also...

JRPG era through the 90's and early 2000's? Try the anime domination era where anime was at the height of popularity and JRPGs were natural extensions of that. People who liked anime often gravitated to them and people who like JRPGs would gravitate to anime. there was a symbiotic relationship going on that no longer really exists in the west so the sales we saw no longer exist on consoles in today's market. They'd be lucky to even hit 500k these days let alone 1 million. Completely different market than anything we have at all. Period.

Anything you spend money on up front and hope to make a profit on after sales is a financial risk. Please stop saying that Xenoblade was a financial risk therefore it shouldn't have been localized. Say that NOA wasn't willing to take the risk. That puts the blame where it belongs.

No one at all is saying it shouldn't have been localized but it was a financial risk.

 

[Sandfox]

Anything you spend money on up front and hope to make a profit on after sales is a financial risk. Please stop saying that Xenoblade is a financial risk therefore it shouldn't have been localized. Say that NOA wasn't willing to take the risk. That puts the blame where it belongs.

Its a good thing I never said that. All I said is that I understand why Pranger said it. Its pretty clear that NoA thought the game was too risky to bring over, but decided to go through Gamestop after changing their minds for obvious reasons.

 

[Agent Unknown]

How was it a terrible example? Nintendo is making moves to try and push the series, but that doesn't mean the game was any less of a financial risk.

It doesn't matter if NOA felt it was a risk THEN, it's obvious NOW it was shortsighted of them from a business perspective to resist bringing it over, especially when they were swimming in Wii money that would have absorbed any loss or risk to begin with. N3DS port, additional Smash character branding and boatloads of Shulk Amiibo sales, and a high profile sequel say Hello. "Yeah, b-but NOA thought it was risky in 2012 so it makes sense in hindsight!" Honestly, what's your point? Are you OK with less localizations? Of course you're not but whatever, go ahead and keep providing a tenuous narrative and a safety net for NOA's mistakes if you must.

 

[Diffense]

Well if you're agreeing with Pranger I don't know how that doesn't imply that NOA made the right decision by not localizing Xenoblade.
How can you agree with his reasons and not endorse the decision resulting from that reasoning? I don't follow.

 

[Nanashrew]

It doesn't matter if NOA felt it was a risk THEN, it's obvious NOW it was shortsighted of them business perspective to resist bringing it over, especially when they were swimming in Wii money that would have absorbed any loss or risk to begin with. N3DS port, additional Smash character branding and boatloads of Shulk Amiibo sales, and a high profile sequel say Hello. "Yeah, b-but NOA thought it was risky in 2012 so it makes sense in hindsight!" Honestly, what's your point? Are you OK with less localizations? Of course you're not but whatever, go ahead and keep providing a tenuous narrative and a safety net for NOA's mistakes if you must.

We don't know if they're rolling in money from that though. We just know it was a success and for all we know it could have been enough to just barely break even. I agree that at that time it was flawed logic and could have been pushed but I also try to understand the market at that time and why everything was happening to console JRPGs. Everyone was pulling out then. No one is okay with less localizations.

 

[Nanashrew]

Well if you're agreeing with Pranger I don't know how that doesn't imply that NOA made the right decision by not localizing Xenoblade.
How can you agree with his reasons and not endorse the decision resulting from that reasoning? I don't follow.

Cause I can understand the reasoning, find its flaws and not call them toxic for an understandable thought process during a time when JRPG makers were pulling out and moving to handhelds and phones for better success because the market for console JRPGs were drying up in the west?

EDIT: I mean, I did want it localized and happy it was. It's currently one of my top favorite games, I wouldn't want it to stay in Japan but I understand where he is coming from. But I also understand why that thought process can be flawed.

 

[Agent Unknown]

I heard nothing wrong in Pranger's tone, you've been called out on this who knows how many times.

You're right, it makes perfect sense for someone who represents his company using a school yard level "dumb guy" tone of voice in an argument as to what is or isn't a wise choice localization wise.

What if Xenoblade failed? What if it bombed hard after its localization like most petitions do.

But it didn't bomb. Who cares about "what if" at this point? As a customer spending hundreds of dollars on their systems and games, I don't care about "what ifs."

I understand the point of being willing to take a risk for the sake of growing an install base, I agreed with Shocking Alberto's points on growing one and I understand the logic.

Great, glad to hear you agree and I can stop replying to you on this now. I don't care about "what ifs" and I don't care if NOA felt it was a risk back then because it's obvious now that they shouldn't have. It's not my job to feel sorry for NOA as a business or worry about risk from their side. As part of a global company with a LOT OF MONEY it's THEIR JOB to take risks and cater to all segments of their fanbase like Sony and MS usually do and as a forward-thinking, competent business they should be more than happy and more than a little willing to take risks now and then. We buy their systems, we pay their bills and help keep them alive, get it?

They had boatloads of Wii money at the time to absorb any potential loss the game might have incurred. Even after NOE stepped up to the plate and localized it they STILL had to be dragged kicking and screaming into bringing it to NA. Xenoblade is now an established, valuable brand, NOA way overthought the risk on it. They were wrong and Pranger is wrong to apparently think they were right, end of story.

 

[zero shift]

People say hindsight is 20/20 but I call bullshit on that. Pretty much every single game on Operation Rainfall sold very well. Xenoblade sold well, The Last Story was Xseed's best selling game...ever. The only game that MIGHT have bombed was Pandora's Tower as I am not aware of its numbers.

During the time of these games release Wii owners were starving for quality titles and would have ate nearly anything Nintendo would have fed them. It was incredibly shortsighted of them to not consider spending the money to localize these games. Its one thing if only Xenoblade met expectations while the others bombed, but if two games far surpassed expectations (the other one is unknown) then it is safe to say that Nintendo unequivocally fucked up and quite frankly they deserved to be scowled in turn.

 

[Nanashrew]

You're right, it makes perfect sense for someone who represents his company using a school yard level "dumb guy" tone of voice in an argument as to what is or isn't a wise choice localization wise.



But it didn't bomb. Who cares about "what if" at this point? As a customer spending hundreds of dollars on their systems and games, I don't care about "what ifs."



Great, glad to hear you agree and I can stop replying to you on this now. I don't care about "what ifs" and I don't care if NOA felt it was a risk back then because it's obvious now that they shouldn't have. It's not my job to feel sorry for NOA as a business or worry about risk. As part of a global company with a LOT OF MONEY it's THEIR JOB to cater to all segments of their fanbase like Sony and MS usually do and as a forward-thinking, competent business they should be more than happy and more than a little willing to take risks now and then. We buy their systems, we pay their bills and help keep them alive, get it?

Xenoblade is now an established, valuable brand, NOA way overthought the risk on it, they were wrong, end of story.

Oh I agree, but I don't go about calling them toxic on this. Yeah it was flawed and overthought but if you're going around calling them toxic on this, I hope you're calling every company toxic about having to do the same thing all the time under your nose the moment you think to even go to Xseed to beg them to localize something like I often see from so many people around the net and here.

 

[Sandfox]

It doesn't matter if NOA felt it was a risk THEN, it's obvious NOW it was shortsighted of them business perspective to resist bringing it over, especially when they were swimming in Wii money that would have absorbed any loss or risk to begin with. N3DS port, additional Smash character branding and boatloads of Shulk Amiibo sales, and a high profile sequel say Hello. "Yeah, b-but NOA thought it was risky in 2012 so it makes sense in hindsight!" Honestly, what's your point? Are you OK with less localizations? Of course you're not but whatever, go ahead and keep providing a tenuous narrative and a safety net for NOA's mistakes if you must.

I'm glad the series came over, but If anything you seem to think the Xenoblade franchise is more successful than it actually is.

Well if you're agreeing with Pranger I don't know how that doesn't imply that NOA made the right decision by not localizing Xenoblade.
How can you agree with his reasons and not endorse the decision resulting from that reasoning? I don't follow.

I don't have to agree with someone to understand where they are coming from.

People say hindsight is 20/20 but I call bullshit on that. Pretty much every single game on Operation Rainfall sold very well. Xenoblade sold well, The Last Story was Xseed's best selling game...ever. The only game that MIGHT have bombed was Pandora's Tower as I am not aware of its numbers.

During the time of these games release Wii owners were starving for quality titles and would have ate nearly anything Nintendo would have fed them. It was incredibly shortsighted of them to not consider spending the money to localize these games. Its one thing if only Xenoblade met expectations while the others bombed, but if two games far surpassed expectations (the other one is unknown) then it is safe to say that Nintendo unequivocally fucked up and quite frankly they deserved to be scowled in turn.

While I think Xenoblade would've put up nice enough numbers for a jrpg due to word of mouth, I think Operation Rainfall deserves credit from bringing attention to the games.

 

[Diffense]

Cause I can understand the reasoning, find its flaws and not call them toxic for an understandable thought process during a time when JRPG makers were pulling out and moving to handhelds and phones for better success because the market for console JRPGs were drying up in the west?

EDIT: I mean, I did want it localized and happy it was. It's currently one of my top favorite games, I wouldn't want it to stay in Japan but I understand where he is coming from. But I also understand why that thought process can be flawed.

I don't have to agree with someone to understand where they are coming from.

OK, well my position is very simple in comparison.

Nintendo is not just selling games so when they refuse to bring their own games to their own platforms (during a drought) they're shooting lasers of contempt at their own customers. Pranger's statement during the podcast (as quoted in the OP) and the tone of it simply anunciated what was previously demonstrated.

I don't agree with NOA's actions or with Pranger's justification of them.

 

[Hero]

Here's the thing, Nintendo during the Wii years was at the top of the mountain profiting hand over fist and their existence was solely to create and publish video games. For them to not release their own games internationally is a complete failure to act as a global entity. Again I am not saying there is no risk or opportunity cost for games like Xenoblade but when you don't bring those games out it devalues your own platform and makes it less appealing to groups of people who know you won't support it fully and this effect can be seen with the Wii U. Nintendo doesn't have the luxury of having big third party games to help keep momentum going like the other systems so it hurts them even more than the other companies.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Here's the thing, Nintendo during the Wii years was at the top of the mountain profiting hand over fist and they existence was solely to create and publish video games. For them to not release their own games internatiknally is a complete failure to act as a global entity. Again I am not saying there is no risk or opportunity cost for games like Xenoblade but when you don't bring those games out it devalues your own platform and makes it less appealing to groups of people who know you won't support it fully and this effect can be seen with the Wii U. Nintendo doesn't have the luxury of having big third party games to help keep momentum going like the other systems so it hurts them even more than the other companies.

Well said.

 

[Nanashrew]

OK, well my position is very simple in comparison.

Nintendo is not just selling games so when they refuse to bring their own games to their own platforms (during a drought) they're shooting lasers of contempt at their own customers. Pranger's statement during the podcast (as quoted in the OP) and the tone of it simply anunciated what was previously demonstrated.

I don't agree with NOA's actions or with Pranger's justification of them.

I don't agree with the drought either and I agree with you on some level. Summer droughts are not good. I don't know what their reasoning is but I'm sure they could figure out a better way to distribute games through the year instead of bunching them all up at the beginning and end of the year. I don't think summer droughts are a laser of contempt though just a dumb decision that can hopefully be changed eventually.

Don't get me wrong though, I've been trying to paint vivid pictures of how different the market has changed and whole heartily understand why it was seen as a risk. Lots of localization companies have to think about these decisions every day, but yes, the justification for it was flawed and overthought but they seem to see that now too.

I'm hoping Xenoblade X does well, it's even bigger, it's gigantic actually, and I would like for it to succeed so the series can continue (also to see more mechs and hopefully reach space one day). Nintendo feels a little different than Wii, Gamecube or other past eras with how much they're localizing these days, even odd titles that you would think would have remained in Japan and doing surprisingly well. It's different and a good change I would like for them to continue.

I have my qualms with past Nintendo's localization efforts but I'm currently liking some of this new Nintendo and want them to continue to change in a good way like we're seeing. No point in really shouting at Pranger for something that happened years ago when he wasn't even part of the company then.

 

[Agent Unknown]

I'm glad the series came over, but If anything you seem to think the Xenoblade franchise is more successful than it actually is.

No, where have I acted like it was was a blockbuster sales wise? As I have said repeatedly, what counts is that it was successful enough to spawn a flagship port for N3DS, become a big part of the Smash brand and Amiibo line and spawned a AAA sequel for the Wii U's Fall lineup. Gee, assuming he's working on it, I sure hope it does well enough sales wise just so Mr. Pranger's personal sensibilities and time spent as a localization employee for a "fanboy sequel" don't feel wasted!

 

[Agent Unknown]

I have my qualms with past Nintendo's localization efforts but I'm currently liking some of this new Nintendo and want them to continue to change in a good way like we're seeing. No point in really shouting at Pranger for something that happened years ago when he wasn't even part of the company then.

It doesn't matter if he wasn't part of the company then, by personally choosing to criticize/downplay the decision three years later and slight fans over it he was opening himself up to criticism, how many times does this need to be said? The attitude he displayed in the podcast is NOT acceptable as someone representing a global company with global customers who expect a wide range of content. He's a localizer for crying out loud, it's his JOB, he should be HAPPY fans were vocal about Xenoblade as that helped pave the way for X to be brought over which gives the Treehouse even more important work to do. Or is that a problem for him?

A localization employee, someone who gets paid to localize games for a living complaining about the fact fans are vocal about wanting games localized. I mean really. It's a flat out bizarre and inappropriate attitude for someone from his line of work.

 

[Nanashrew]

It doesn't matter if he wasn't part of the company then, by personally choosing to criticize/downplay the decision three years later and slight fans over it he was opening himself up to criticism, how many times does this need to be said? The attitude he displayed in the podcast is NOT acceptable as someone representing a global company with global customers who expect a wide range of content. He's a localizer for crying out loud, it's his JOB, he should be HAPPY fans were vocal about Xenoblade as that helped pave the way for X to be brought over which gives the Treehouse even more important work to do. Or is that a problem for him?

A localization employee, someone who gets paid to localize games for a living complaining about the fact fans are vocal about wanting games localized. I mean really. It's a flat out bizarre and inappropriate attitude for someone from his line of work.

Fine, while it seemed to ruffle your feathers, he's still correct. Maybe it shouldn't have been said, or said differently, but his point is still the truth as harsh as it was, that we are a minority of people wanting certain things localized and we'll more often never meet the demand a company needs to gain profit or just break even. Very rarely does that sort of thing succeed.

He is happy it came out, I imagine all the staff are. But why do you think it's a problem for him? You can ask him on Twitter if you want. He's a very approachable guy and always interested in having conversations about anything with anyone.

 

[R_thanatos]

What if Xenoblade failed? What if it bombed hard after its localization like most petitions do. Why did we not get a lot of console games in the west? Because sometimes it's not worth the risk and losing tons and tons amounts of money. Look at the previous generation and how many studios went under. Look at the problems that generation had, look at the problems that still persist in this generation, look at the market and why things are considered a gigantic risk for some and why they would even think about not localizing something.

SO what ? even if it did bomb, it would have helped them build a library of titles and gain a better picture toward their customers. They have a freaking console, put your games on it.

They had the sale momentum AND the market share to take this risk , and they didn't take it. They could have said " we're dedicated to bring new experiences to the wii users " and exited wth glory because it could have consolidated heir foothold for LATER.
But they , even in such situation didn't do that. And the result was painfully obvious when they were looking for buyers when the wii U arrived.

At this point their only risk was to lose the chance to gain even more followers and to introduce even more IP to the public in your portfolio. WHAT A RISK /s

In a strong position, they didn't want to invest in new IPs for later ...now that their position became weak, they need new IPs and most of them didn't do great except splattoon. If they used that time to introduce new things to their audience, things would have been much more easier for them. ( but hey it was a risk /s )

 

[sui generis]

It was totally worth it. Now did they market it right? Or release it right? No... Probably it would have been better to release with the wii u.
Probably should have just called the wii u the wii HD. Then had that tablet be more useful.

 

[Nanashrew]

SO what ? even if it did bomb, it would have helped them build a library of titles and gain a better picture toward their customers. They have a freaking console, put your games on it.

They had the sale momentum AND the market share to take this risk , and they didn't take it. They could have said " we're deicated to bring new experiences to the wii users " and exited wth glory because t could have consolidated heir foothold for LATER.
But they , even in such situation didn't do that. And the result was painfully obvious when they were looking for buyers when the wii U arrived.

At this point their only risk was to lose the chance to gain even more followers and to introduce even more IP to the public in your portfolio. WHAT A RISK /s

I don't disagree? I've already stated it was an overthought decision and don't agree with the justification for not being localized despite understanding the risks of the market. People kept saying it wouldn't have been a risk at all but it would have and I don't disagree on the points. Though I do question, had Xenoblade failed, would we even be getting the sequel or would Monolith Soft have moved onto something else after deeming it a failure.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Lol how much does it cost to release a game on eshop? You have got to be kidding me.