eShop didn't exist on the Wii. There were no Wii games available to download, it was non-existent. However, it's now possible on Wii U but Xenoblade X is getting a retail release and they announced a limited edition as well.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NOA localizer insists Xenoblade too risky, defends Wii U naming
- Thread starter Agent Unknown
- Start date
eShop didn't exist on the Wii. There were no Wii games available to download, it was non-existent. However, it's now possible on Wii U but Xenoblade X is getting a retail release and they announced a limited edition as well.
R_thanatos
Member
The studio would have probably moved on something else .. that's the golden rule when it comes to projects like these.
But since monolith was under nintendo wing ( and still is ) it's quite probable that it would have kept his size and done a smaller project.
Now the opposite happenned and they recruted in order to make xeno X.
Again , nothing unusual here, this happens in most companies that are called "first/second party"
I must add that some projects are sometimes considered failures in japan but then became sucesses because it did well in europe or in the US ... so , for the sake of the greater picture , localising can sometimes help a franchise.
Sometimes, yeah =/
I wish more were better successes in the west, and I hope more companies can realize that we do want some of their games here like Dragon Quest. Though I guess I should be grateful for the moment with what we can get on systems these days. Makes me long for the PS2/Dreamcast/GC era with all those JRPGs and other cool Japanese games.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Videogames are not anime, thanks. There are very few games with Jp dubs released in US/Eu for very good reason. It's because it kills any chance of the game ever being huge. They were at least trying to make Xenoblade a success. I can't think of any no big JRPG series (or game in general, for that matter) that has stuck with JP dubs.
Final fantasy? Nope. Dragon Quest? Not that I'm aware of. Tales of... Mostly has English dubs. The ones that don't, like tales of hearts vita weren't expected to do very well regardless. Persona (At least 3/4) +SMT has English dubs. Fire emblem, yep, dubbed. Kingdom hearts? You guessed it!
If you think dubbing doesn't affect sales, please explain to me why all the big companies seem to be investing in something that is apparently pointless? Because I'm certain that a title only gets hte JP+subs option if its deliberately being sent to die/has very low expectations.
And just so you know, the EU version of xenoblade included Japanese dubbing/subbing anyway. It's still the English dub that became famous.
PooBone
Member
My two cents: If Nintendo ever wants to get their console out of this shithole mess of support they're in, they need to generatze BUZZ with games. You can't get people talking about your console if you don't put shit out, even if its a game you don't expect to sell like gangbusters. Drop the price on the Wii and release some goddamn software, instead of saying it's too risky. They tool a chance on the Wii U. That was pretty stupid and expensive in hindsight . Localizing a game theirr fans are passionate about won't cost you nearly as much as all the cash flushing they've done so far this gen.
This guy sounds like an asshole.
This guy sounds like an asshole.
shouamabane
Member
NX comes out next year.
Best Nintendo Fan Ever
Banned
Insulting the same group of people who they need to buy their NX doesn't seem like a good idea
AnkiRendan
Member
You are insane if you think that is true about DBZ's fan base.
The newest movie, which is a limited release that is dubbed is about to join the list of the top 10 highest grossing anime films. You look at that list and tell me how many out of that top 10 was subbed. Go on, tell me.
pretty much.
The New 3DS may have sold tepidly, but those faceplates are pure profit for those who are into that sort of thing.
Additionally, this is another situation where having region locking (TM Cheesemiester) bites them in the rear. Hardware is tied to a region once manufactured. So when Japan launched the New 3DS and the Americas needed to burn through their old 3DS stock, it may have been possible to better absorb the extra stock had it not been locked to a country.
zero shift
Banned
Outside of Muramasa, are there any sub localization success stories?
Say who?
flaviusconstantius
Member
One thing being missed here is that Nintendo is a very conservative company. The idea that you spend money to make money, at least in the context of losing money to potentially make a profit at some future indeterminate point is very much a Western(and especially American) corporate mindset. Microsoft almost certainly would have localized Xenoblade, heck they funded Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia, etc and likely lost money(and expected to) on all of those, for the longshot of making the 360 relevent in Japan. And while they failed, one could argue that they still succeeded in inflicting enough chaos on the Japanese console market during the PS2-PS3 transition to help permanently cripple a large portion of the Japanese console RPG market. And to the extent that hurt Sony a whole lot more than them, I think one could argue that it was still worth it.
But Microsoft has still lost money, even if it managed to cost its competitors more which they could less afford to lose, and Microsoft and still losing money from the games division. MS can afford that sort of attritional warfare. Nintendo cannot. Nintendo has played its cards very conservatively, and as a result even during the worst periods in its history it managed to limit its losses. The WiiU is Nintendo's worse selling console showing a 90% decline from the Wii, the 3DS is showing a 67% decline from the DS, but Nintendo is returning to profitability. Did Nintendo's tactics perhaps prevent them from exploiting their Wii success as much as they might have? Sure. But they also prevented the failures which followed from crippling the company.
US firms by contrast are burdened by so much debt that a major failure can set off a chain reaction toppling the whole firm. And given saving rates in Japan, the long-term economic trajectory and the deflationary environment, borrowing is a really bad idea.
Nintendo is Nintendo, and that means conservative. What we heard in this interview is evidence of the attitude that has made Nintendo often frustrating but also ensured it is always there,
But Microsoft has still lost money, even if it managed to cost its competitors more which they could less afford to lose, and Microsoft and still losing money from the games division. MS can afford that sort of attritional warfare. Nintendo cannot. Nintendo has played its cards very conservatively, and as a result even during the worst periods in its history it managed to limit its losses. The WiiU is Nintendo's worse selling console showing a 90% decline from the Wii, the 3DS is showing a 67% decline from the DS, but Nintendo is returning to profitability. Did Nintendo's tactics perhaps prevent them from exploiting their Wii success as much as they might have? Sure. But they also prevented the failures which followed from crippling the company.
US firms by contrast are burdened by so much debt that a major failure can set off a chain reaction toppling the whole firm. And given saving rates in Japan, the long-term economic trajectory and the deflationary environment, borrowing is a really bad idea.
Nintendo is Nintendo, and that means conservative. What we heard in this interview is evidence of the attitude that has made Nintendo often frustrating but also ensured it is always there,
SerTapTap
Member
There's a cost to being conservative. There's a pretty major blowback to how Nintendo has handled the Wii U (especially in the west) and how Sony handled the Vita (especially in the west...sigh). You can't measure the effect of not localizing a title by saying "well it PROBABLY wouldn't recoup costs I guess", or even just by looking at sales figures for that one title alone. By missing out on the smaller stuff from, say, the Gamecube era, you've got a way less appealing console to non-core Nintendo fans. You've got massive negativity directed at the company.
Negativity is absolutely 100% something Nintendo needs to tackle with NX, in fact it should probably be the top priority. In individual parts they seem minor, but shit like lack of localizations, region locking, awkward-ass account systems, poor social features and hard to understand console focuses really add up and make a system very unattractive and very easy to get down on. There are STILL people freaking out about the Vita not coming out with a memory card included. You really have to consider stuff like this.
My only guess in that regard is it was somehow less obvious in the context of Japanese? Because I mean, it is ridiculously bad.
The Wii U name is stupid but it isn't to blame for the poor sales IMO. 3DS has done fine with a similar name. Wii U was simply a reality check for Nintendo. They got lucky with a gimmick with the Wii and even then that fad died off before the Wii U. Now they are back to where they were with the Gamecube and no name was going to save them from that.
As for NOA being scared to localize something that isn't shocking. They are beyond incompetent from top to bottom. They are doing a much, much better job in Europe. I mean NOA can't even release a Yoshi game anywhere near when the rest of the world get it. Not like that is some obscure Japanese game or something.
As for NOA being scared to localize something that isn't shocking. They are beyond incompetent from top to bottom. They are doing a much, much better job in Europe. I mean NOA can't even release a Yoshi game anywhere near when the rest of the world get it. Not like that is some obscure Japanese game or something.
We're talking about localization here, not the creation costs of the game. The game was made to be profitable in Japan, and then it was localized. Localization costs have nothing to do with anything but the amount of text/voice.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Lol that comparison to Captain Rainbow is a complete straw man.
Yes, some people wanted that game to be localised. Why not? It's a fun game.
But I doubt there was a single person who thought the decision to leave that
Japan only was unreasonable. Captain Rainbow was unarguably one of the
biggest flops Nintendo has ever released (selling in total less than 10 000
copies from what I remember).
Xenoblade may not have had "AAA sales potential", but it's certainly no Conception II
either. The fact that the game that XB is most often compared to is FFXII should tell you
something.
From what I see it was just a case of NoA losing interest in releasing anything that
wasn't likely to generate the kind of massive profits they had become used to during
the DS/Wii years. That and taking their customers for granted - something NoE
can't afford to do.
Yes, some people wanted that game to be localised. Why not? It's a fun game.
But I doubt there was a single person who thought the decision to leave that
Japan only was unreasonable. Captain Rainbow was unarguably one of the
biggest flops Nintendo has ever released (selling in total less than 10 000
copies from what I remember).
Xenoblade may not have had "AAA sales potential", but it's certainly no Conception II
either. The fact that the game that XB is most often compared to is FFXII should tell you
something.
From what I see it was just a case of NoA losing interest in releasing anything that
wasn't likely to generate the kind of massive profits they had become used to during
the DS/Wii years. That and taking their customers for granted - something NoE
can't afford to do.
Sumio Mondo
Member
^Word. I sure hope that Nintendo Japan realise this and change it up with their next console. "Wii 2" was all they needed.
3DS hasn't done nearly as well as DS did. It absolutely did bomb at the start of its lifetime due to the confusing name. People thought 3DS was just an upgrade, not a whole new handheld, at the time. It wasn't until like a year or two into its life cycle that the sales bumped up to doing well. With regards to Wii U, by the time consumers realised it was the "next console" from Nintendo and not just an upgrade, people stopped caring since PS4 and Xbox One were coming. The Wii U branding was hazardous and anyone who thinks it wasn't is just wrong, sorry.
3DS hasn't done nearly as well as DS did. It absolutely did bomb at the start of its lifetime due to the confusing name. People thought 3DS was just an upgrade, not a whole new handheld, at the time. It wasn't until like a year or two into its life cycle that the sales bumped up to doing well. With regards to Wii U, by the time consumers realised it was the "next console" from Nintendo and not just an upgrade, people stopped caring since PS4 and Xbox One were coming. The Wii U branding was hazardous and anyone who thinks it wasn't is just wrong, sorry.
He's not in charge of these decisions and nothing he says in the podcast implies otherwise.
This thread should not have been made: there was already a thread for his appearance in the podcast, his position at nintendo is insignificant, and this gives a false impression for bandwagoners to jump on.
We give people shit for not reading the source material so many times yet this entire thread is a monument to it.
hydragonwarrior
Member
I get his argument, but Nintendo should start being more transparent on the metrics they use to gauge populariy of Japanese titles. That way less argument on the N-fan front, or if anything it may kickstart more advertisement for it.
Still, it bothers me that they saw no potential in Xenoblade (franchise wise) that would have been worth the risk vs fucking Nintendoland.
But i suppose they're one for one. Splatoon paid off while W101 tanked horrendously.
Still, it bothers me that they saw no potential in Xenoblade (franchise wise) that would have been worth the risk vs fucking Nintendoland.
But i suppose they're one for one. Splatoon paid off while W101 tanked horrendously.
They considered it too expensive to localize compared to NintendoLand which was quick and not as expensive. It's been mentioned in the podcast and on here.
He doesn't make the decisions personally but he's explaining how decisions are made by NOA...
I wonder if anyone if you actually bothered to listened to the podcast because many of your points are brought up by this guy in the exact same podcast!!! He fully says that the Wii U's name was a factor in its poor sales and the lack of clarity definitely hurt. Hell, I completely disagree with the tittle as he does not do either of those things. Oh, the OP certainly took phrases out of context to make sure this guy seemed like this evil duchebag you all secretly want NoA to be, but surprisingly, context actually matters here.
He doesn't say Xenoblade is too risky. He's says that that venture ultimately won't meet expectations for Nintendo to consider it a success. Notice how that doesn't mean Nintendo won't profit from it NOR that it is too risky to make. He is saying that certain games won't make realistic expectations so not everything gets brought over. Funnily enough, he says he's glad NoE brought it over. Again, context completely changes things.
Dont get me wrong. I am a huge Nintendo fan but i will never forget when Mario Kart 7 launched and Reggie showed up in a store event to race against people in the public AND HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO CONTROL THE GAME.
Of course the game industry is all about business but when you put people that only take decisions based on market speculation things suck bad. The executives from NOA are clueless about gaming and that's a key factor for their decline in the recent moments.
Of course the game industry is all about business but when you put people that only take decisions based on market speculation things suck bad. The executives from NOA are clueless about gaming and that's a key factor for their decline in the recent moments.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Western localization should be figured into any modern console game's budget from the drop. Especially given the state of the Japanese console industry, and the healthy western sales of games like Bravely Default, Fire Emblem. MonHun, and Persona 4.
The company most enamored with region locking being the most hesitant to bring games over just exacerbates the situation.
The company most enamored with region locking being the most hesitant to bring games over just exacerbates the situation.
HE'S NOT!!! He is a guy given his opinion on why some things happening. The guy wasn't even around when Xenoblade was even being considered for localization! Actually, forget that! #FE, W101, Bayonetta 2, Tomadachi Life, Devil's Third, Braverly Default, and Braverly Second are all examples that NoA is taking more risk. Why do we pretend that Xenoblade Chrinicles is the last game ever made? It's been years. Things changed!
I absolutely love how the NOA localizer insists on Xenoblade being too risky to basically sub in between 1 and 3 language and maybe dub it in English and NoE is like no biggie we'll dub everything and translate in 5 language.
And when the localization is all done and NoA only has to bugtest the EU version, make conversion and remove 2 language or something it's STILL so risky they have to make a deal with Gamestop to even consider releasing it.
Did NoA get a transfer from the one of the EU subsidy from circa 95 or something?
And when the localization is all done and NoA only has to bugtest the EU version, make conversion and remove 2 language or something it's STILL so risky they have to make a deal with Gamestop to even consider releasing it.
Did NoA get a transfer from the one of the EU subsidy from circa 95 or something?
Yeah, they still considered it risky. Because it was. But in the end it did decent. He said he's glad NoE bit the bullet so other people outside Japan could play it.
Correct, at least you got that, but many others in this Thread decide to throw shit at that Guy instead.
I still can't get over how my Co-Worker thought it was just a controller addon to the Wii.......that right there coming from a guy who owns every Nintendo console was when I knew they had lost a decent amount of even their core base. How could you fuck up marketing that bad!
I really want to buy a WiiU for Xenoblade but with how much that's already on the table for me to play the next few years....it really doesn't bother me that I may miss out. Just like how I initially missed out on Halo 4, Forza Horizon when I switched from 360 to PS3 years ago. (They released a MCC so I got to experience it anyways.)
I really want to buy a WiiU for Xenoblade but with how much that's already on the table for me to play the next few years....it really doesn't bother me that I may miss out. Just like how I initially missed out on Halo 4, Forza Horizon when I switched from 360 to PS3 years ago. (They released a MCC so I got to experience it anyways.)
Agent Unknown
Member
No kidding? That's the entire point. As I and others here have pointed out, if a company has to endlessly debate the burden of paying for VAs then at some point the company needs to think outside the box a bit and consider simply doing subtitled cut scenes. JRPG customers being able to purchase and actually play the game they want in more than one region should take priority over the cliche'd obsessive worrying over having VAs in cut scenes every single time. Obviously the VA work on Xenoblade is iconic and it's great we got it but most fans would still have gladly purchased the game if there was a label on the back stating "Cut scenes feature Japanese voice actors with a choice of English or Spanish subtitles." Not saying this should be the norm mind you but it should at least be something companies consider more in certain situations.
Linkstrikesback
Member
It is literally not an option. Every company is aware not dubbing your game is sending it to die. It's just you who doesn't seem to get it. There isn't some massive army of people willing to throw money at jp only games. Because, guess what, if there was, it would happen way more offen. There's a damn good reason not a single big jrpg company has even considered it. Hence, what I meant by not like anime. Dubbing doesn't do much for most anime sales (and they're so low anyway) because the ONLY people seeking anything but the most core stuff out are a small very dedicated niche. The realm between the two is orders of magnitude different. Selling thousands of an anime dvd in a region is considered pretty good but damn laughable for a videogame.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Because they already said they would talk about it at e3? What's the point of them saying anything about it if they didn't intend to release it that same year? Companies don't talk about new systems at e3 with the intent to sit on the hype for over a year before release. Most of the time when we get a system announcement at e3, it has been released that same year, usually before the holidays.
Azure Dream
Member
I'm so sick of the idea that releasing a product 4 years after the last one is somehow an "insult" to people, like they're expected to ride out a bad decision for... 6? 8 years? What will make you happy? The OG Xbox was dropped after just a few years, and Microsoft did alright with the 360.
Lord Azrael
Member
Not that I don't agree that the NX will be coming in 2016, but the Wii U did exactly what you are describing...
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Do only subtitles if you have to, since you believe the audience for an amazing jrpg is soooo niche. This guy can go fuck himself trying to make people seem stupid for asking for good games, considering half the reason a market isn't right for a localization is because it takes them an inordinate amount of years to do it, when systems are damn near dead by the time it happens. The other reason is lack of marketing and confidence to push it right, even if it came in a timely fashion. At the end of the day, some money =/= no money, but to big companies, they don't stop to pick up money on the ground.
Agent Unknown
Member
To someone like you in the context of merely trying to win your obstinate contrarian stance here it's not. You don't even know the proper use of the term "literally." You act like I'm the only one here who thinks this is a reasonable option even though both I and others have detailed points as to why it's reasonable. You can keep spinning your wheels, subtitles in story scenes are not the other worldly, off putting concept you make them out to be. I'm done replying to you on this. XSeed still would have sold every copy of Xenoblade if the story scenes were subbed.
Agent Unknown
Member
Couldn't agree more.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
I'd have to disagree.
Oh wow.
Well, there it is
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Well, I had posted before about it in this thread, and on the subject of just subtitling in other localization threads, but a publisher loses a significant chunk of the audience (and therefore sales) if there isn't an English dub. It can also affect your ability to get placement in stores. There are exceptions, of course, but as I said before, cost cutting measures of like removing voices, not dubbing, or forgoing physical, are not generally equal or greater to what companies need to justify a project. And what's a success for XSEED is not necessarily going to be a success for other companies.
Y'know maybe this whole situation could be solved if companies didn't go to overhyped, expensive AAA actors. Lord knows no one ever needs to hear Troy Baker ever again.
Hey, remember how most of FFXII's VAs were non-union theater people? And they were all pretty well liked? Unless the SAG-AFTRA has some iron grip on Nintendo they should do that.
Hey, remember how most of FFXII's VAs were non-union theater people? And they were all pretty well liked? Unless the SAG-AFTRA has some iron grip on Nintendo they should do that.
M1ch04c4n0
Banned
Well, that happened with the Wii, and the GameCube, and the N64.
NX "console" is not coming next year. The "handheld", maybe (successor to the 3DS), if that hybrid conspiracy theory is right.