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[AniHawk]

It started when I wouldn't let him pick Donatello

good man

 

[ShockingAlberto]

good man

But Donatello does machines.

 

[outlawedprod]

I think a lot of good points were raised about Bayonetta's sales not performing to some people's expectations. One angle I don't think anyone commented on is proper naming for your target audience.

"God of War"
"Devil May Cry"
"Bayonetta"

Which one of these three sounds lacking in "cool" factor? I think the USA demographic that buys this type of game desires a more visceral or badass image. Bayonetta beyond some of the imagery clearly does not ooze the same oomph as some of the more premiere titles people are comparing numbers against. Bayonetta seemed more otaku than visceral to me at least. This article http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/01/bayonetta-style/ makes some good points to consider. Image is everything when it comes to marketing. I think Darksiders outperformed Bayonetta out of the gate because it is more marketable to the buying demographic of these types of games. Perhaps the biggest problem was to compare this game to Devil May Cry. I wonder if it would have been better to try and appeal to different demographics instead of just the typical action gamer. I know a few JRPG fans who aren't big on action games who bought this on launch and it surprised me they were interested in it.

 

[sonicmj1]

I'm kinda sad that Bayonetta wasn't successful, but if I had to guess why, it's pretty much the concept. You'd just have to look at how many times Bayonetta shows up in the "character designs that annoy you" thread to have some idea. I also recall the equally anecdotal evidence that Kintaro had in the official thread when most of the preorders at his Gamestop were canceled by people coming in and seeing the advertisement Sega bought for the stores. Even if I like the look of the game, I can't deny that it inspires strong negative reactions from others.

It's not that Sega didn't try to market Bayonetta. It's just that the game's aesthetic turns a lot of people away from a game that I suspect they'd otherwise enjoy. Perhaps it never could have been a breakout success in North America.

 

[donny2112]

I've really found some deja vu in this thread reading about Bayonetta's performance. It's also been a nice change of pace from the usual Wii third-party performance discussions. :lol

 

[NeoUltima]

...

The word you are looking for is psychographic, not demographic.

Quite frankly, with Bayonetta there was almost nothing they could do to make it a smashing success. Most people knew this right off the bat when the game was first shown.
TBH, I'm surprised Sega greenlit it. I know I wouldn't have.

/wateriswet

 

[ZealousD]

"God of War"
"Devil May Cry"
"Bayonetta"

Which one of these three sounds lacking in "cool" factor?

 

[AniHawk]

But Donatello does machines.

hot

 

[BishopLamont]

DMC pic

Haha. Perfect.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

So 8 games published by Nintendo are in the op 20. Nintendo is by far the most successful software company in terms of sales and profi margins off those sales (Zelda and Galaxy are still $50) this gen. I don't know it's true but I've read that Nintendo makes more in profits than the next top 5 publishers combined and judging by how many multi million sellers they have this gen I wouldn't doubt it.

This got me thinking why publishers are not making more Nintendo type games. The reason I think Nintendo is so successful software wise (aside from making quality software) is that they have no direct competition. Nintendo is the only major publisher making the type of games that were popular in the 80s and early 90s (ya know light hearted, inclusive games that didn't take itself too seriously and you can play with your whole family).

Publishers are churning out one dark, gritty, bloody, vulgar, violent game after another. Earth to publishers: not every gamer is a teenage male who likes to play a violent badass! Why do they continue to compete for dollars from a smaller demographic? And factor in their huge budgets for these games it is even more of a reason to stop trying to ape Hollywood and try to compete with Nintendo. A game like New Super Mario Bros. Wii's budget (which will likely go on to sell at least 20 million which is 1 billion dollars in revenue) had to be a mere fraction of a game like Haze, Prototype, MSG 4, Dante's Inferno etc.

If I were the head of say EA I would put my top dev team to make a new IP - a platformer perhaps - that is very fun, light hearted, and inclusive. I would bet it would turn more profits than Dante's Inferno.

Seriously, publishers should take a close look on why Nintendo is so successful software wise and it is not just because they make high quality games it is also because of the TYPE of games.

Just my 2 cents.

I have to disagree with this because that's not what they do. I don't want ALL Nintendo Styled games. I have no problem with the Darksiders, COD MW2, ME2, ect of the world. The problem is the stubbornness of publishers in regards to we have to have a sequel out every fucking year.

Look at COD 4. Remember how that game was selling. Why did Activision have to put out WaW so soon. Once a game code is written, pressing discs is chump change. It could have been all profit for what 3+ years?

MW2 Just sold close to 6 million copies of a game in a month. 2 months later, what do we see? Activision confirms another Call of Duty game coming out this fall. Looks like another hardcore title that could have sold for years and years put out to pasture.

This industry wants evergreen titles so damn bad, but few developers (Nintendo, Blizzard, Valve, Bungie) have the knowhow, sense, and nuts to do what they have to.

 

[mugurumakensei]

What I still don't get is that people still talk about "dissapointing"..or "bomba"..regarding the sales of Bayonetta, when the company that published the game, was quite happy reporting sales/shipping/whatever 1.1 million copies as of a few weeks ago.

Yeah, maybe is not what YOU expected..and maybe YOU are dissapointed with the sales, but the ones that actually were behind the game seem more than satisfied at the moment.

Unless I'm missing something, if so can anyone point me to the statement of Sega talking about Bayonetta bombing and dissapointing at retail? Does anyone have a quote of Kamiya dissapointed at it too?

You do realize the period for that ended before Bayonetta was released in N.A. and Europe (the period ended Dec. 31 09). So, you're basically claiming that Sega was happy with no sales at all to consumers in N.A. and Europe. You're basically saying Sega would be satisified with Bayonetta sales regardless of what they would turn out to be just because they convinced retailers to stock 1.1 million units total across three territories.

 

[cantona222]

NSMB Wii is doing great. It surpassed the sales of MW2 on the PS3 for sure.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

good man

Well I haven't finished the story yet.

So anyway I pick Donatello and he picks Raphael. Well, you know how Raphael has that weird spinning head dive thing? Kamiya just keeps jumping around and doing that move. When I tell him to knock it off, he justifies himself by saying "it looks cool and it's fun and that's all that matters". Well, that's when I showed him the sales for all of Clover's and Platinum's games, and that's when the bawling started.

Turns out Mikami told him Clover was closed because of a Dare gone wrong. All this time he had thought his games were kick-ass big sellers. Well, after watching this grown man with a froo-froo hairdo weep for about two hours, I sent him on the train home.

Again, I hope you're all happy.

 

[Road]

Ack! Wrong thread.

Sorry.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Here's a thought SEGA, market games people give a fuck about(VF)

Hey didn't VF5 did ~50k it's first month and the 360 port perform worse?
isn't VF5R even losing favor in Japanese arcades?

 

[Monocle]

Really disappointed about Bayonetta here. I think it's a safe bet that if Sega's ad campaign had 1) made more of the fact that Hideki Kamiya, director of Devil May Cry, created the game, and 2) focused on Bayonetta's insane boss encounters and wild combat (quad wielding shotguns, throwing cars, summoning skyscraper-size Infernal Demons, etc.) rather than the character herself, Bayonetta would have sold a good deal better than it did. I long suspected the game's bizarre art style would turn people off.

nope.

I'm glad the sale number speaks for itself. Bayonetta is not what we want for the future of action games.

EDIT:

What we want is
1. The true successor of NGB. NG2 is pretty close, had Tecmo not rush the game, it would've been close to perfect
2. The true successor of DMC1

You spelled "I" wrong.

 

[Vizion28]

I have to disagree with this because that's not what they do. I don't want ALL Nintendo Styled games. I have no problem with the Darksiders, COD MW2, ME2, ect of the world. The problem is the stubbornness of publishers in regards to we have to have a sequel out every fucking year.

Look at COD 4. Remember how that game was selling. Why did Activision have to put out WaW so soon. Once a game code is written, pressing discs is chump change. It could have been all profit for what 3+ years?

MW2 Just sold close to 6 million copies of a game in a month. 2 months later, what do we see? Activision confirms another Call of Duty game coming out this fall. Looks like another hardcore title that could have sold for years and years put out to pasture.

This industry wants evergreen titles so damn bad, but few developers (Nintendo, Blizzard, Valve, Bungie) have the knowhow, sense, and nuts to do what they have to.

That's not what they do? Are you implying 3rd parties are not competent enough to make Nintendo styled games?

I'm not saying that's all what they should make but they diversify more because he shoot/beat 'em up I'm a badass type games seem to be oversaturated whilere there are relatively few Nintendo type gmes. Aside from making top noch games how else Nintendo is destroying the competition software sales wise? Galaxy sold almost as much as Halo 3 yet third parties continue to put out numberous games of the same type but not 1 game like Galaxy. NSMB Wii probably cost peanuts to make and it is likely to go on to sell at least 20 million.

Nintendo is in a very fortunate time right now where they have no direct competition and because of that their software stands out from the rest. People have no where else to go for these types of experiences and that is why Nintendo is so effective at moving their hardware with software. I guarantee you if Nintendo made the type of games like Uncharted, Halo, Left 4 Dead etc. the Wii wouldn't have sold half as much even with motion controls.

Quite honestly I think 3rd parties are dumb business wise. But I think Microsoft has caught on and are going to try to emulate Nintendo with Natal. We'll see how that turns out.

I agree that third parties releasing annual sequels is bad - it's bad for consumers and a bad reflection on the industry. But that is the only way third parties know how to make money in the industry. Nintendo on the other hand usually makes one game per franchise for each generation (that's why the announcement of Galaxy 2 was a complete shocker).

 

[Canova]

Really disappointed about Bayonetta here. I think it's a safe bet that if Sega's ad campaign had 1) made more of the fact that Hideki Kamiya, director of Devil May Cry, created the game, and 2) focused on Bayonetta's insane boss encounters and wild combat (quad wielding shotguns, throwing cars, summoning skyscraper-size Infernal Demons, etc.) rather than the character herself, Bayonetta would have sold a good deal better than it did. I long suspected the game's bizarre art style would turn people off.


You spelled "I" wrong.

nope I'm not alone, it's clear that the majority of DMC, NG fanbase (2+ million strong, based on the average sale number of DMC, DMC3, DMC4, NG, NG2) would not touch Bayonetta

 

[Starchasing]

Quite honestly I think 3rd parties are dumb business wise. .

No its not that... its that they just dont have the skills to do so

 

[dsister44]

That's not what they do? Are you implying 3rd parties are not competent enough to make Nintendo styled games?

I'm not saying that's all what they should make but they diversify more because he shoot/beat 'em up I'm a dubebro whose shit is fucked up type games seem to be oversaturated whilere there are relatively few Nintendo type gmes. Aside from making top noch games how else Nintendo is destroying the competition software sales wise? Galaxy sold almost as much as Halo 3 yet third parties continue to put out numberous games of the same type but not 1 game like Galaxy. NSMB Wii probably cost peanuts to make and it is likely to go on to sell at least 20 million.

Nintendo is in a very fortunate time right now where they have no direct competition and because of that their software stands out from the rest. People have no where else to go for these types of experiences and that is why Nintendo is so effective at moving their hardware with software. I guarantee you if Nintendo made the type of games like Uncharted, Halo, Left 4 Dead etc. the Wii wouldn't have sold half as much even with motion controls.

Quite honestly I think 3rd parties are dumb business wise. But I think Microsoft has caught on and are going to try to emulate Nintendo with Natal. We'll see how that turns out.

I agree that third parties releasing annual sequels is bad - it's bad for consumers and a bad reflection on the industry. But that is the only way third parties know how to make money in the industry. Nintendo on the other hand usually makes one game per franchise for each generation (that's why the announcement of Galaxy 2 was a complete shocker).

Fixed

also people shouldn't relate budget to quality. NSMBWii took a full team 2 1/2 years to make, i could see the budget being comparable to galaxy 2 (althoughof course there is no way to check)

however I think you are dead on yearly sequels. Nintendo can make their brands last and I thik a large part of that is that mostly iterations are spread. I know that personally I would find metroid, pikmin, console zelda titles a lot less special if they released every 12-18 months

 

[Arpharmd B]

The whole point of Bayonetta is that Kamiya does what he wants. If money was the key motivation for the game then they would have created some Dante/Ninja/God of War main character, sent it to focus groups, and all this nonsense, released Devil May God Gaiden DudeBro 2 and sold billions.

Kamiya didn't want that. He wanted to make Bayonetta. He had the vision and he made it. He doesn't give a fuck what you want. This is his baby, and she is virgin pure, and those of us who have had time with her can tell ya ain't nothing like popping her cherry.

Platinum is probably more than happy with the games performance. I really doubt they were looking to ship 3 million copies of the game. The fact they shipped 1 mil and will probably sell through it, on a niche game that was never compromised or fucked with in the name of ungodly focus groups or main stream appeal bullshit is a miracle.

 

[Toy Soldier]

The whole point of Bayonetta is that Kamiya does what he wants. If money was the key motivation for the game then they would have created some Dante/Ninja/God of War main character, sent it to focus groups, and all this nonsense, released Devil May God Gaiden DudeBro 2 and sold billions.

Kamiya didn't want that. He wanted to make Bayonetta. He had the vision and he made it. He doesn't give a fuck what you want. This is his baby, and she is virgin pure, and those of us who have had time with her can tell ya ain't nothing like popping her cherry.

Platinum is probably more than happy with the games performance. I really doubt they were looking to ship 3 million copies of the game. The fact they shipped 1 mil and will probably sell through it, on a niche game that was never compromised or fucked with in the name of ungodly focus groups or main stream appeal bullshit is a miracle.

That's a good way to look at it, and I hope you're right. Nothing will ever take away how satisfied I am with the game, but like many of you guys, I do hate to think that a) a sequel would be less likely or b) Kamiya / Platinum were left unsatisfied with their reward for such a beautiful work of art.

I'd like to hope you're right that everyone is left satisfied across the board.

 

[CadetMahoney]

i see "dudebro" being the in thing nowadays.

don't taze me bro/

 

[Mardak]

Was there a lot of ads for Just Dance that I am not aware of? How did the casuals know about this game?

Apparently there were ads from before, but a good bet nowadays would be word of mouth. It's mainly a party game, so people will bring it out in gatherings and those visitors will pick it up after enjoying it.

Just check out the youtube videos, and you'll see that they're mostly videos of several people/guests all having fun. It's still amazon's #1 selling Wii game even after they increased the price from $30 to $37.

But now with all this Just Dance talk in the NPD, I might just pick it up when it drops back to $30. Especially after watching 3 little pigs do Hot and Cold. :lol

 

[jabipun]

Let's just say that the PS2 and PSP debuts were MUCH smaller than the Wii debut.


I would be cautious about putting too much stock into an early statement by the company. It is entirely possible that Sega is very happy with the 1.1 million shipment figure - end of story.

But it is also possible that they were happy because that was the initial shipment, and they were hoping that the game would be able to build on that initial shipment in order to get to 1.5 million or some other such number. So they may have looked at it as a nice first shipment, but not necessarily a nice final total. There's no way to know at this point. It seems as though the game did receive a fairly hefty marketing budget.

But based on the shipment figure, the game was on sale pretty much the whole month, and at the end of January, there was likely still nearly half a million units sitting in the retail channel.

Other than the general point that Bayonetta (in terms of it's quality) deserved to sell much much much more x10's than what it did.

Consider:

Japan - total combined sales 275,000
US (first month) - 200,000?
Europe - ? Lets assume it matches US - 200,000
Other - pulling figures out of my ass now but let's say 50,000

You're looking at a little over 700,000 worldwide thus far.

And Bayonetta is a great game, it'll have word of mouth. LTD life time may just hit one million. It'll be an ugly and slow million, but it will get there.

 

[dolemite]

BlazBlue Calamity Trigger is reported at 350k in North America by the end of January 2010.
mcv go to page 8.