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NPD Sales Results for March 2015 [Up1: Nintendo numbers, PS4 placing]

Off course there should be a sequel.

Agreed. If Sony is off course from their current smart business decision making track record, then there should be a sequel.

However, if they stay on course, they can find better uses for these development assets.

The Order still has legs on Gaf. We should have a TOP 10 on GAF every month for the most mentioned game in all the threads.

Driveclub, The Order, Vanquish, The Wonderful 101... I don't know if I want to live in a world where your idea happens.
 

Rolf NB

Member
It's clear as day with the way PS fans defend Knack, TO, Driveclub, PSASBR etc. Cannot accept these are mediocre experiences and threads upon threads are created defending these POS and I honestly don't see that with Nintendo or XB1 fans, or at least as much. And I say that as a PS fan for 18 years. The funny thing is there is no need to defend bad games because Sony make and support more than enough quality games like TLOU, BB, Journey, ICO, TLOU, Flower, Sound Shapes etc.
I don't think anyone particularly likes defending games, but if you're talking about overhyping of exclusives? There's been a fair share of that on non-Sony platforms all the same. It's just that it doesn't usually lead to those smear vs defense threads. When complete gutter trash like Deadly Premonition releases exclusively on Xbox, you don't see Sony fans swooping in trying to control the consensus perception. Other people lead those discussions in entirely differrent ways.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
I don't think anyone particularly likes defending games, but if you're talking about overhyping of exclusives? There's been a fair share of that on non-Sony platforms all the same. It's just that it doesn't usually lead to those smear vs defense threads. When complete gutter trash like Deadly Premonition releases exclusively on Xbox, you don't see Sony fans swooping in trying to control the consensus perception. Other people lead those discussions in entirely differrent ways.

I have noticed that here.
 
Why? People want to push the narrative that its some misunderstood gem, because you know Sony doesn't fund mediocre games, It's either critical and commerical darling like BB and TLOU and everyones happy or everyone doesn't understand how awesome the game is and critics are terrible. The Order didn't bomb because its a waste of money it bombed because dudebros don't get its complexity and depth...
Dude, come on man. That can't be the narrative you've come up with for majority of users who played the game. Isn't it more just give them a second chance because you could "potentially" make an awesome game in the universe? I mean, most people just want a Gears clone I think, I've not seen many defenders of the game other than "it's not the worse thing I've played" or "It's a great rental". No one is pushing some agenda of people not understanding it's greatness lol.
 
Isn't the Order just under a million? It sold nowhere near as much as they would have liked but lets not make it seem like it sold 150K in total. I they make a sequel, the franchise has a ton of potential.
 
It's clear as day with the way PS fans defend Knack, TO, Driveclub, PSASBR etc. Cannot accept these are mediocre experiences and threads upon threads are created defending these POS and I honestly don't see that with Nintendo or XB1 fans, or at least as much. And I say that as a PS fan for 18 years. The funny thing is there is no need to defend bad games because Sony make and support more than enough quality games like TLOU, BB, Journey, ICO, TLOU, Flower, Sound Shapes etc.
But Dc isn't mediocre or bad. And the heavily majority of Knack defenders just said it's not as bad as critics say. Again, had The Order or Knack release at more budget prices, I feel strongly it's reception would be less critical.

And fans of EVERY system does this, dunno why you single out PS fans. Fans since the original PS absolutely dogged PS all stars and Lair lol. It's fitting too, because there really isn't a "face" to PS games so there's fans of all different types of genres. MS is definitely geared towards a specific market with there biggest franchise.
 

Alrus

Member
I don't think anyone particularly likes defending games, but if you're talking about overhyping of exclusives? There's been a fair share of that on non-Sony platforms all the same. It's just that it doesn't usually lead to those smear vs defense threads. When complete gutter trash like Deadly Premonition releases exclusively on Xbox, you don't see Sony fans swooping in trying to control the consensus perception. Other people lead those discussions in entirely differrent ways.

I really doubt that this forum was bombarded with damage control threads about DP before it released like what happened when TO did.

But honestly I don't think discussions about the merits of the game have any place in a sales thread. The game sold like crap for its budget, as much as anyone thinks the team "deserves" another chance, it would not be a very good business decision. I think W101 and Bayo 2 were great games and would have amazing sequels but that's certainly never happening our I'd say Nintendo has gone bonkers

I don't see what the uncharted comparisons have to do with anything either, ND had a rather successful track record, they were owned by Sony and Sony needed to create strong first party franchises because the ps3 was struggling and 3rd party sales were often better on the 360. This is absolutely not the case anymore.
 

Felessan

Member
Uncharted was launched in november 2007 and in january 2009 was at 534k sold in US according to NPD.
Not "bombed heavily", but not so good either.
I was talking about first month of sales, where sales were no good by any standards. Just to show that exaggeration and propagation of initial results and current "situation" to the future is a completely wrong approach.

purchase validation
Obviously it's opposite, as the most vocal part here is to "hate" Order.
People like to ride "hate trains" as much as they like tide "hype trains" with exactly the same behavior - they completely blow things out of proportion and then eventually crash into the wall of reality.

Although The Orders second month is one of the worst drops I've seen in a while.
Even though US drop for Order is really bad, it's not quite a good idea to simply compare MoM drops. As the point when game came out during the month has too strong impact.
For example - the same Order, UK sales. It's actual drop MoM is roughly 63% (or 70% if we flat out +112% spike). But.
If game would came out 1 week later (i.e. only 1 tracking week in Feb) - MoM drop would be mere 7%.And if the game would came out 1 week earlier (i.e. 3 weeks of tracking) - MoM drop would rise to 74%, or, without spike, to 82%

Almost any game that came out in the first week of the month will have MoM drop in at least high 80%, except probably some games with extremely strong legs. Just because sales curve are very skewed.
 

Endo Punk

Member
Isn't the Order just under a million? It sold nowhere near as much as they would have liked but lets not make it seem like it sold 150K in total. I they make a sequel, the franchise has a ton of potential.

Potential should be the tagline to The Order because that's all I ever hear with the IP. Such a meaningless term that can be abused again and again. Hey if they fail to deliver next time it doesn't matter because the lore and setting still has POTENTIAL.
 
I really doubt that this forum was bombarded with damage control threads about DP before it released like what happened when TO did.

But honestly I don't think discussions about the merits of the game have any place in a sales thread. The game sold like crap for its budget, as much as anyone thinks the team "deserves" either chance, it would not be a very good business decision.

I don't see what the uncharted comparisons have to do with anything either, ND had a rather successful track record, they were owned by Sony and Sony needed to create strong first party franchises because the ps3 was struggling and 3rd party sales were often better on the 360. This is absolutely not the case anymore.

I agree with this entirely. In a sales thread like this one, one should be able to separate talk about what sequel a person wants to happen (based on a variety of reasons) and what sequels will and should happen based on sales data and business decisions.

For the Order, the game failed both critically and commercially. Should Sony greenlight a sequel? No. I say that as someone who enjoyed the game to a degree. It simply doesn't make any sense from an IP and sales perspective.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
I agree with this entirely. In a sales thread like this one, one should be able to separate talk about what sequel a person wants to happen (based on a variety of reasons) and what sequels will and should happen based on sales data and business decisions.

For the Order, the game failed both critically and commercially. Should Sony greenlight a sequel? No. I say that as someone who enjoyed the game to a degree. It simply doesn't make any sense from an IP and sales perspective.

its kind of weird that the two graphical powerhouses on ps4 right now are order and dc. I personally plan on picking up dc later not order (maybe a rental) ... kind of sucks in that sense

(my personal opinion is dc is underrrated in its current state ... order is meh)

dc we already know the future as a service model which is fine imo if they keep adding good content the work into that engine keeps getting leveraged in the long term and dc may end up being one of those slow burn games (especially with the ps+ boost whenever that happens).

order I think the things worth salvaging are the engine and the setting essentially (rest can be clumped into okay/good/bad). The engine is def something else for what its managing compared to the rest of ps4 games out right now. Heck imo it looks better than games like uc4 currently which are a year off. But then rad is not first party so dunno whats going to happen with that.

They are bundling it tho .so in that sense it seems on par with what they did for heavenly sword. Think thats the most apt comparision

EDIT : btw was hs a similar jump visually for ps3 as order is for ps4?
 
its kind of weird that the two graphical powerhouses on ps4 right now are order and dc. I personally plan on picking up dc later not order (maybe a rental) ... kind of sucks in that sense

(my personal opinion is dc is underrrated in its current state ... order is meh)

dc we already know the future as a service model which is fine imo if they keep adding good content the work into that engine keeps getting leveraged in the long term and may be one of those slow burn games .

order I think the things worth salvaging are the engine and the setting essentially (rest can be clumped into okay/good/bad). The engine is def something else for what its managing compared to the rest of ps4 games out right now. Heck imo it looks better than games like uc4 currently which are a year off. But then rad is not first party so dunno whats going to happen with that.

I think there's a huge difference between the Order and Driveclub as a IP, especially in regards to talks about potential sequels.

Driveclub's critical reception may not have been great but it's reception by the fanbase was much better then the reception of the Order by its fanbase. Even among people who enjoyed the game, the Order is widely regarded as a deeply flawed game. That same can't be said for DC.

Even more so, the things that DC was criticized for critically have been alleviated in part by patches and content updates. The Order really doesn't enjoy this benefit. Critically, outside it's graphical framework, the game is at best considered serviceable and at worst, an affront to game design. Short of a major rework on pretty much major portions of the game, critical reception to the title won't change.

I think those are just a few reasons that separate DC from Order, especially in terms of sequel talk and IP building. Driveclub actually has potential to expand because the base is there and the base is fantastic.

Edit: I know it's not clear, but I'm actually agreeing with you in parts. No idea how I forgot to make the clearer. =/
 

RexNovis

Banned
Agreed. If Sony is off course from their current smart business decision making track record, then there should be a sequel.

However, if they stay on course, they can find better uses for these development assets

As much as I would like to see a followup to 1886 I can see why it might not happen. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the sales make it a hard sell. I do think there are reasons that Sony might greenlight it but those are a longshot. That said I certainly assume the engine and the tech RAD created wont go to waste and is utilized in some fashion be it in a sequel or in some other IP. So many are so quick to dismiss the game that they don't see just how impressive the engine they created is. I really want to see it put to good use.


Potential should be the tagline to The Order because that's all I ever hear with the IP. Such a meaningless term that can be abused again and again. Hey if they fail to deliver next time it doesn't matter because the lore and setting still has POTENTIAL.

What is your issue dude? Lets recap the dialogue you have created in this thread so far:

You: Sony shouldn't create new IPs that I don't like because they wont be succesful and Sony will fail.

My Response: WTF this makes no sense. Creating new IPs is a risk but much prefereable to farming out sequels one after the other because sometimes that risk pays off

You: Yea but the Order failed so bad RAD should shut down and Sony should be ashamed of themselves

My Response: While it was dissapointing from a commercial and critical standpoint the tech behind the game was impressive and some actually enjoyed setting, story and lore. I personally would like to see a sequel but I know its not guaranteed I do however think its not that farfetched because (list of reasons) At the very least I hope their tech is utilized going forward as it would be a shame to waste one of the most impressive engines I've ever seen and it would be a shame to see the studio behind it shut down.

You: Sony fanboys are so ridiculous. They have to defend every failure and act as if its some lost gem. LOL "potential" what a load of bullshit.


Most of the people talking about the game are saying it was disappointing but showed some promise be it from a technical or story standpoint. Some disagree about the likelihood of a sequel/followup to the game based on sales or other factors. You however are acting like there is nothing redeemable about a game you probably haven't even played and insist on telling anyone who has the nerve to disagree with you how wrong they are. So who exactly is being unreasonable here the people saying "yea it was disappointing but I'd like to see more" or the person screaming bloody murder over and over about how horrible a game is and saying everyone else has an agenda for claiming the game has any merit whatsoever?
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Now that it seems like the topic has died down a little... any thoughts on the return of Adventure Time & Guitar Hero to Wii U?

I remember either Aqua/Harker talking about how third party Wii U software sales were enough to keep those who were already around (JD, Skylanders, Lego, Disney), but not enough to get any others to the platform.

Seemingly, we've got a licensed game to test the waters of Wii U again (with a small lapse in 2014), and Guitar Hero Live (the actual bigger one) giving the Wii U a try. Do you think that means software sales on Wii U, despite really disappointing hardware sales as usual, are looking a bit less dead? Wondering exactly what may have triggered some of these developments.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
I think there's a huge difference between the Order and Driveclub as a IP, especially in regards to talks about potential sequels.

Driveclub's critical reception may not have been great but it's reception by the fanbase was much better then the reception of the Order by its fanbase. Even among people who enjoyed the game, the Order is widely regarded as a deeply flawed game. That same can't be said for DC.

Even more so, the things that DC was criticized for critically have been alleviated in part by patches and content updates. The Order really doesn't enjoy this benefit. Critically, outside it's graphical framework, the game is at best considered serviceable and at worst, an affront to game design. Short of a major rework on pretty much major portions of the game, critical reception to the title won't change.

I think those are just a few reasons that separate DC from Order, especially in terms of sequel talk and IP building. Driveclub actually has potential to expand because the base is there and the base is fantastic.

Edit: I know it's not clear, but I'm actually agreeing with you in parts. No idea how I forgot to make the clearer. =/

no I agree with you. non open world Racing games and linear story driven tpses are two genres I like. And I wanted both to be good especially the order as it was the game I was looking forward to for the first part of this year (not a souls kind of person) . But yeah that game needs a lot of work. My post was more about its a shame that engine may go to waste. Seems like a stellar engine and does seem to have potential for gameplay mechnaics too (havent played it but read whatever little gunplay it does have is solid mechanically)

where these numbers came from?

the person I quoted, no idea where he got it from. The 231 we had for npd was from insiders.
 

hawk2025

Member
I feel like Endo Punk is fighting a battle entirely in his mind.

This is a completely normal and common reaction to fairly divisive, usually short, low-reception/sales games. There are dozens of LTTP Ryse threads, hundreds of pages on debates of how under/over/whateverrated it is. This happens to every single divisive game, from all parts of the spectrum. We still discuss God Hand in the same way. We still discuss Deadly Premonition, Driveclub, and many, many more. This whole discussion is tantamount to the pregnant couple that "sure is seeing a lot of pregnancy articles lately in newspapers!" just because they just so happen to be paying more attention to them.

Check your confirmation bias at the door.

With respect to sales -- it seems clear that The Order is a sales failure. That much, given what I would expect the budget to be, is a fairly straightforward, uncontroversial statement.
The discussion that's falling to the wayside, though, is how, conditional on the money spent so far and the technology developed a sequel or a brand new IP with similar tech by the same dev should be greenlit or not. Basing that decision strictly on the reception and sales of the first game completely ignores the relevant cost analysis that goes into a decision like this, and we are getting lost on the ridiculousness of discussing the perception of "defense forces" for different games, rather on focusing on what's actually relevant information for this point.
 

RexNovis

Banned
The discussion that's falling to the wayside, though, is how, conditional on the money spent so far and the technology developed a sequel or a brand new IP with similar tech by the same dev should be greenlit or not. Basing that decision strictly on the reception and sales of the first game completely ignores the relevant cost analysis that goes into a decision like this, and we are getting lost on the ridiculousness of discussing the perception of "defense forces" for different games, rather on focusing on what's actually relevant information for this point.

Yes exactly. While sales certainly make the prospect of a sequel less likely there are other factors to be considered when determining the likelihood of a sequel. RAD has created some valuable tech with Sony's funding incurring sunk costs for Sony. Sony could very well deem a followup is merited for a possible ROI or they could decide to get their money's worth out fo the engine in some other fashion either way it's not a "omg guys the game sold so bad RAD is going to shut down" situation. There are very real reasons why Sony could consider a sequel or at the very least continue working with RAD and their proprietary engine.

Now that it seems like the topic has died down a little... any thoughts on the return of Adventure Time & Guitar Hero to Wii U?

I remember either Aqua/Harker talking about how third party Wii U software sales were enough to keep those who were already around (JD, Skylanders, Lego, Disney), but not enough to get any others to the platform.

Seemingly, we've got a licensed game to test the waters of Wii U again (with a small lapse in 2014), and Guitar Hero Live (the actual bigger one) giving the Wii U a try. If rumors about Black Ops 3 actually returning to Wii U (I'm not holding my breath though), there may be that. Do you think that means software sales on Wii U, despite really disappointing hardware sales as usual, are looking a bit less dead? Wondering exactly what may have triggered some of these developments.

Where did you hear that? Third party support outside of the family franchises already on the WiiU is basically a myth. I wouldn't count on GH especially since the WiiU uses a proprietary tech for wireless devices and as such would require development of WiiU specific hardware. But then again I suppose Wii accessories would be compatible so I don't know. I really wouldn't put my money on it though. The chances of any more third party franchises making their way to WiiU are slim to none.
 
I feel like Endo Punk is fighting a battle entirely in his mind.

This is a completely normal and common reaction to fairly divisive, usually short, low-reception/sales games. There are dozens of LTTP Ryse threads, hundreds of pages on debates of how under/over/whateverrated it is. This happens to every single divisive game, from all parts of the spectrum. We still discuss God Hand in the same way. We still discuss Deadly Premonition, Driveclub, and many, many more. Thes whole discussion is tantamount to the pregnant couple that "sure is seeing a lot of pregnancy articles lately in newspapers!" just because they just so happen to be paying more attention to them.

Check your confirmation bias at the door.

With respect to sales -- it seems clear that The Order is a sales failure. That much, given what I would expect the budget to be, is a fairly straightforward, uncontroversial statement.
The discussion that's falling to the wayside, though, is how, conditional on the money spent so far and the technology developed a sequel or a brand new IP with similar tech by the same dev should be greenlit or not. Basing that decision strictly on the reception and sales of the first game completely ignores the relevant cost analysis that goes into a decision like this, and we are getting lost on the ridiculousness of discussing the perception of "defense forces" for different games, rather on focusing on what's actually relevant information for this point.

That's because he is.
 
The Order discussion never dies, just like Destiny OTs

anyway, I wonder if I can get this....any update on Fire Emblem?
or given what John Harker said earlier, how much Xenoblade did elsewhere
 
Its when the ps community on gaf come together to make a terrible game seem great when it really comes off as fanboyish. Like any bad game you want I honestly don't care. But to expect bad games critically and commercially to get more funding is being selfish and not looking at the big picture. People asking for TO2 might as well be asking for Sony to leave the console space by the end of the gen. When you fail so bad like RAD, like Evolution. You don't deserve to continue the IP.

I'm not sure where you get that Evolution failed, the game sold better than Forza Horizon at launch and with all the retail sales and bundles the game has definitely passed 1 million WW = Not a failure. Just because it had a bad launch doesn't make the game and features a failure.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Where did you hear that? Third party support outside of the family franchises already on the WiiU is basically a myth. I wouldn't count on GH especially since the WiiU uses a proprietary tech for wireless devices and as such would require development of WiiU specific hardware. But then again I suppose Wii accessories would be compatible so I don't know. I really wouldn't put my money on it though. The chances of any more third party franchises making their way to WiiU are slim to none.

I'm removing the rumor, since I think it'll just throw off the conversation (I don't think it's happening).

What do you mean I wouldn't count on Guitar Hero? Guitar Hero Live is releasing for Wii U, that's a fact unless Activision changes their mind. Activision announced it when announcing the title and it was surprising. Keep in mind 3rd party support for Wii U has only been dwindling from its already paltry #s since launch, and in 2014 it was literally Lego + Just Dance + Skylanders + Disney Infinity + random Watch Dogs (oh and Sonic Boom lol, ok + Pacman + Little Orbit... but still small) iirc. I seriously think that was it in terms of third party retail games.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
we must never forget the order. those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. it's a warning from history.

febuary 20th shall always be the order remembrance day. we cannot let future generations fall into the same cycle of empty hope and unceasing despair.
 
that battle of endor punk :)

A battle till Death! Not sure why he has so much issue understanding games that get a mixed reception critically also have mixed opinions in the real world lol. Happens with every game not just the order. People still enjoy games that get mixed to poor critical receptions. This also goes for movies, music......
 
X2VPwjn.gif
Tight gif.
Best game I've played in years. Literally.


I enjoyed The Order, but it's cost per hour of enjoyment/interest is a joke in comparison to BB
 

Alrus

Member
I'm not sure where you get that Evolution failed, the game sold better than Forza Horizon at launch and with all the retail sales and bundles the game has definitely passed 1 million WW = Not a failure. Just because it had a bad launch doesn't make the game and features a failure.

1 million WW for a high budget game in the current market isn't really a success.
 

RexNovis

Banned
I'm removing the rumor, since I think it'll just throw off the conversation (I don't think it's happening).

What do you mean I wouldn't count on Guitar Hero? Guitar Hero Live is releasing for Wii U, that's a fact unless Activision changes their mind. Activision announced it when announcing the title and it was surprising. Keep in mind 3rd party support for Wii U has only been dwindling from its already paltry #s since launch, and in 2014 it was literally Lego + Just Dance + Skylanders + Disney Infinity + random Watch Dogs (oh and Sonic Boom lol, ok + Pacman + Little Orbit... but still small) iirc. I seriously think that was it in terms of third party retail games.

What?!? This is the first I have heard of it coming to WiiU. Frankly that's shocking. Cheers for the correction I had no idea.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
Potential should be the tagline to The Order because that's all I ever hear with the IP. Such a meaningless term that can be abused again and again. Hey if they fail to deliver next time it doesn't matter because the lore and setting still has POTENTIAL.

What is it exactly that you're arguing?
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
What?!? This is the first I have heard of it coming to WiiU. Frankly that's shocking. Cheers for the correction I had no idea.

Yup. That's why I'm having a slight bit of hope after seeing Advenure Time also return to Wii U. GH Live is the main one though, so that's nice =). Honestly knowing most of my friends who have a Wii U, they're actually exactly the type who played Guitar Hero, especially back in the PS2/Wii days. I think it has a chance to do well enough to stay on Wii U in the future.
 
Then you can't say for sure the game was not a failure. I really doubt a high end racer made by a UK studio over a few years was cheap to make.

I didn't say it was or wasn't just stating we cannot say. You however said it is not a success in todays climate, the burden of proof is on you. I don't think DC had a big budget and Evolution is not a big studio.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
Then you can't say for sure the game was not a failure. I really doubt a high end racer made by a UK studio over a few years was cheap to make.

The game is probably at most a 20M budget game. I could be way off. I haven't read data on the cost of modern AAA games these days. Just going by last gen.
 
Then you can't say for sure the game was not a failure. I really doubt a high end racer made by a UK studio over a few years was cheap to make.

Well.. I guess, sure? I'm not sure what your getting at. 1 million sales usually is an indication that the game sold decent and was probably not a failure unless it was mismanaged. Could it happen here? Sure.

But I don't think it did. And I don't think it's unreasonable for me to think that a game that sold a million was somewhat of a success. Otherwise I might as well pack it up, every other million seller is a failure too.
 

hawk2025

Member
The only indication we have of Driveclub's success, relative to its budget, is that the developer suffered downsizing six months after its release.

That doesn't bode well for that calculation -- although I hope I'm very wrong.
 

FATALITY

Banned
lol i just finished the order 5 min ago.
yeah i just need to stop listen popular opinion.

i bought wolfenstein the new order and the evil within day one because that.
never again
 
The only indication we have of Driveclub's success, relative to its budget, is that the developer suffered downsizing six months after its release.

That doesn't bode well for that calculation -- although I hope I'm very wrong.

That is very common in gaming though even after successfull games launch.
 
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