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[ShockingAlberto]

'Might'? I could have told you that from the get-go.

(Not to mention LoS isn't even very good anyway. OoE is the better game!)

Yyyyeah. That's one of the problems with LoS's sales, really. If it were a great game, you could pull back a bit of marketing and let word of mouth spread.

But the game was polarizing and even the people who loved it never really went "YOU MUST RUN OUT AND BUY THIS."

 

[MikeE21286]

those Wii Party numbers have to be soul crushing for Nintendo.....not sure how Ifeel about Donkey Kong's chances given the current Wii software climate

 

[les papillons sexuels]

How is it again that it's Kotick's fault that people didn't enjoy a well-reviewed, well-advertised game like DJ Hero 2 or Blur?

With Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero sure, I understand the scorn, but it's not like the man has the universal touch of death.

well it's fault for DJ hero because he's pumping the market to the point of saturation where people are no longer interested in the next version of x/y/z hero.

Blur was a game that just wasn't given enough attention, the game was good, but nothing about it really interested people into purchasing it. Kart racing with real cars? it just sounds like a bad idea.

 

[jamesinclair]

those Wii Party numbers have to be soul crushing for Nintendo.....not sure how Ifeel about Donkey Kong's chances given the current Wii software climate

They would have been better off calling it Mario Party 9 I think.

8 still sells really well, and its like 4 years old.


Any way we can figure out PS2 numbers? We have everything else.....Perhaps total hardware revenue and subtract the revenue from each platform?



And yes, Kotick is the touch of death. Surely Im not the only one boycotting Activision due to him?

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

So guys Wii or 360 on top this holiday?

PS3 because of GT5.

Spoiler

Worldwide

 

[jamesinclair]

But yeah, CoD will be run into the ground. The first few I liked, but those were spaced out more. The reason Mario lasted 25 years is because the main-line games are spread out. The 3D ones are several years apart, and the 2D ones had like a 15 (!) year gap between entries at one point. Outside of things like Mario Party, even the spinoffs aren't released yearly.

Nintendo did a good amount of milking but stopped it before it was too late. In 8 years we had:

SMB
SMB2
SMB2.5 (lost levels/kori panic depending on market)
SMB3
SMW
SMW2:Yoshi
SMLand

And stuff like Super Mario RPG, Mario Paint, Mario is Lost, etc etc.

But once SM64 hit, they figured out it was best to hold on before the next one.

And Mario Party was a eyarly release for 8 years as well!

 

[Kusagari]

Now that I think about it, I really don't know how much they tend to sell in their first month in the US, just the lifetime sales. Any hard numbers for US Sales, looking in the past NPD topic I see nothing.

I mean, 500k copies sold in NA would be worse then what Air Ride did, it got 750k in NA sales.

I know for a fact that Superstar Ultra never made the top 10 NPD but easily crossed a million. Kirby games are all slow burns. Epic Yarn is fine and will easily cross 500k lifetime.

 

[Busaiku]

Nintendo did a good amount of milking but stopped it before it was too late. In 8 years we had:

SMB
SMB2
SMB2.5 (lost levels/kori panic depending on market)
SMB3
SMW
SMW2:Yoshi
SMLand

And stuff like Super Mario RPG, Mario Paint, Mario is Lost, etc etc.

But once SM64 hit, they figured out it was best to hold on before the next one.

And Mario Party was a eyarly release for 8 years as well!

They've definitely gone back to that. Even worse actually.

In 6 years we've had:
New Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2

And even more spinoffs/remakes.

 

[professor_t]

Where do I sign?

The petition simply assumes that all sentient beings are supportive. You're in.

 

[SlipperySlope]

They've definitely gone back to that. Even worse actually.

In 6 years we've had:
New Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2

And even more spinoffs/remakes.

You do realize that the "2D" versions are completely different games, right? It's a completely different genre.

 

[HK-47]

They've definitely gone back to that. Even worse actually.

In 6 years we've had:
New Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2

And even more spinoffs/remakes.

2D and 3D Mario have different appeals though, as proven by their vastly different sales.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Nintendo did a good amount of milking but stopped it before it was too late. In 8 years we had:

SMB
SMB2
SMB2.5 (lost levels/kori panic depending on market)
SMB3
SMW
SMW2:Yoshi
SMLand

And stuff like Super Mario RPG, Mario Paint, Mario is Lost, etc etc.

But once SM64 hit, they figured out it was best to hold on before the next one.

And Mario Party was a eyarly release for 8 years as well!

I wouldn't count SMB2 as two different titles. One's a sequel to Super Mario Brothers, the other is a totally different game. And the US didn't get SMB 2 until All-Stars came out.

I'd also scratch Yoshi's Island from the list. It's more of a Yoshi game than a Mario game.

So it's more like 5 games in 8 years, spread across three different systems.

 

[GC|Simon]

As much as I (and maybe many of you) LOVE Nintendo for focusing on core games this year (Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid, Epic Mickey, Kirby, Goldeneye, Donkey Kong, Sin & Punishment, Monster Hunter, No More Heroes 2....etc), this is simply not what the Wii's audience care about and it is the reason why the system drops so much in sale this year.

Of course you can say the Wii's sale has peaked so it's natural to drop. But I also think the Wii lacks a Wii Fit or Wii Sports kind of game to spark interest and the 'wow factor' in the mass market.

Say what you want about Wii sucks or Wii has no hardcore games. When Nintendo focuses on core games (and they did a phenomenon job this year on that), sale drop is what they get. Maybe the vitality sensor WAS the right answer after all. It has that 'wow factor' if done correctly.

Yeah, Wii Sleep will be sooooooo exiting. People will recognize that Wii Sleep is as much fun as Wii Sports and it will sell shitloads.

Honestly: I don't think that the Vitality Sensor will be a huge hit like Wii Sports or Wii Fit.

@ Kirby sales: 100k are not as bad as I thought. Kirby never was a big hit. It will continue to sell in the upcoming months and I guess it will reach at least 1 million worldwide. And then you cannot consider it as a fail. Then Nintendo made money with it.

@ general sales: Many bombs, the industry is in real trouble.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Nintendo did a good amount of milking but stopped it before it was too late. In 8 years we had:

SMB
SMB2
SMB2.5 (lost levels/kori panic depending on market)
SMB3
SMW
SMW2:Yoshi
SMLand

And stuff like Super Mario RPG, Mario Paint, Mario is Lost, etc etc.

And Mario Party was a eyarly release for 8 years as well!

The term 'milking' is thrown around a lot when discussing sales but it is never really quantified or discussed any further.

As far as im concerned a company 'milking' a franchise is one just trying to maximise the amount of money they can make from a franchise. This is not a bad thing and it does not have to lead to a decline in popularity.

I think there is good and bad milking of franchises. Tony Hawk is an example of the bad type of milking. The focus on quality completely went out the window and there was little innovation with the series. So basically you end up with lots of poor quality games that barely improve on each other.

This leads to consumers tiring of the franchise for a number of reasons.

-The franchise becomes stale and offers no new reasons for consumers to jump in.

-The games are consistently of low quality which turns people off future installments

-There are more games being produced then what the consumers want.

Making the games cost a whole lot extra probably didn't help either.

The above example of mario is not bad milking IMO. Firstly the quality of games you listed is absolutely incredible. If anything the quality of games was going up not down.

This flow of quality games is what has given mario its reputation and is the reason why it continues to sell so well today.

The games also showed some innovation. SMB, SMB3, SMW, yoshis island etc these are all very different games and are good for different reasons.

The other games like mario paint, mario RPG, mario party etc are in completely different genres.

There is nothing wrong with making quite a few games like that so long as there is something to differntiate them and as long as they are good.

Also you have to be careful to ensure your games are actually still in demand and not to oversaturate the market. Mario games continue to sell quite well and i see no signs of the franchise becoming stale.

But once SM64 hit, they figured out it was best to hold on before the next one.

IMO this was a poor decision. I think nintendo would have been much better off had they continued to make 2D mario games alongside the 3D ones.

It's impossible to say now especially since NSMBWii/DS were so popular but thats what i think.

Also it's not as if they stopped using the mario name. They still made a lot of games with mario in the title (mario golf/tennis/party) they just made fewer mainline games.

I much prefer the approach they are taking now. They have released two 3D and one 2D mario this gen and all have sold quite well because they are quality games. Also the 2 games tend to have a different appeal which means they aren't burning out consumers.

 

[NeonZ]

As much as I (and maybe many of you) LOVE Nintendo for focusing on core games this year (Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid, Epic Mickey, Kirby, Goldeneye, Donkey Kong, Sin & Punishment, Monster Hunter, No More Heroes 2....etc), this is simply not what the Wii's audience care about and it is the reason why the system drops so much in sale this year.

NSMB and MKWii were system sellers in the past, and those are about as core as Kirby and Donkey Kong. They're also releasing Wii party too. They aren't forgetting their casual audience. If you look at the early Wii games, you'll find a similar balance.

The first time there was a sales misstep with the Wii, acknowledged by Nintendo itself, was when they left the end of the year just to Animal Crossing and Wii Music and had nothing else to show.

But I also think the Wii lacks a Wii Fit or Wii Sports kind of game to spark interest and the 'wow factor' in the mass market

I don't disagree about this point, of course it lacks a new title that would leave a big impression in the mass market, but you're assuming that they could just make a successful new game idea just because they need it. If they had one, their big "Wii" line title for this year wouldn't be "Wii Party". Just releasing a Wii Sports 3 or Wii Fit 3 wouldn't do much at this point, considering how even the second versions failed to add much to the Wii's monthly sales.

 

[Nirolak]

2D and 3D Mario have different appeals though, as proven by their vastly different sales.

Yeah, if Activision was putting out Call of Duty RPGs, Call of Duty TPSs, and Call of Duty RTSs, but wasn't doing any of them yearly, I don't think there would be nearly as much concern about burnout despite having far more titles per year.

 

[AniHawk]

why, what's activision doing with burnout

 

[Nirolak]

why, what's activision doing with burnout

They're turning it into a Call of Duty FPS.

 

[AniHawk]

They're turning it into a Call of Duty FPS.

but i still drive a car?

 

[mrklaw]

lots of pages, but has there been any discussion on reasons for the relatively poor performance of PS3 hardware?

 

[Mariah Carey]

Nintendo's portion of the blame comes from their bizarre hesitance to push WM+ and their general easing-off of making more motion-heavy games. This despite the fact that WM+ was a pre-emptive strike against competitive motion controllers in the first place. A 2D sidescroller revival is great but that's not what Nintendo promised us when they unveiled Wii.

And of course the other part of the blame goes to third parties fighting nail and tooth against the threat of a first-party ruled industry.

 

[Rhindle]

lots of pages, but has there been any discussion on reasons for the relatively poor performance of PS3 hardware?

What poor performance? The PS3 number is actually surprisingly high. They almost kept pace with 360 sales despite everything the 360 has going for it at the moment.

 

[Nirolak]

but i still drive a car?

No, you are the car.

The car has arms and shoots in first person.

 

[NemesisPrime]

What poor performance? The PS3 number is actually surprisingly high. They almost kept pace with 360 sales despite everything the 360 has going for it at the moment.

Hu?

 

[Ashes]

No, you are the car.

The car has arms and shoots in first person.

If I'm the car, who gets the girl?

 

[AdventureRacing]

What poor performance? The PS3 number is actually surprisingly high. They almost kept pace with 360 sales despite everything the 360 has going for it at the moment.

*Move and Kinect are the most important things being released by MS and Sony this year. Move is out, kinect isn't. The gap is only going to get bigger for the rest of the year.

*Obviously US only, i know how big GT5 will be in Europe

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Wow that's some pretty nasty sales all round.

 

[Rhindle]

*Move and Kinect are the most important things being released by MS and Sony this year. Move is out, kinect isn't. The gap is only going to get bigger for the rest of the year.

*Obviously US only, i know how big GT5 will be in Europe

Move might have been a factor - but if it was, I would have expected to see more of an effect around launch in September. And yet PS3 weekly sales are up (slightly) over September, whereas all other consoles are down significantly.

I suppose people might have been delaying 360 purchases in anticipation of the Kinect bundles.

 

[V_Arnold]

Move might have been a factor - but if it was, I would have expected to see more of an effect around launch in September. And yet PS3 weekly sales are up (slightly) over September, whereas all other consoles are down significantly.

I suppose people might have been delaying 360 purchases in anticipation of the Kinect bundles.

Oh my god, do not tell me that you are bending over to use the sept->oct transition JUST because it favors the PS3 only. YOY comparisons makes sense, Month-to-month in a well-known sept->oct transition: not so much.

 

[ymmv]

I'm getting the impression the games industry is heading for a crash. The number of big budget games that immediately tank at retail is just huge. If you're game belongs to a dead genre (platformer, JRPG, RTS, racing, music, skating), don't bother releasing it. If your game isn't absolutely, truly AAA+, don't bother. When highly advertised big budget games like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow and Enslaved bomb horribly, what does that mean for games with even less awareness? To most publishers the only way out is is to spend even more money on a new action game so they can attain AAA+++ status, but that is just gambling with more money and the table and higher risks, because when those mega expensive games bomb it's really over and out...

I suspect the games industry is ready for major cut backs: too many games, too many studios, not enough sales, huge losses ... I don't think there's even one games publisher in the black. All of them are losing money. The only good news to report is when they're losing less money compared to the year before, but they're still hemorrhaging money.

This can't go on.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Move might have been a factor - but if it was, I would have expected to see more of an effect around launch in September.

Not really my point. You implied that everything was in the 360's favour. I am saying that with move already out and kinect still to come this isn't the case.

And yet PS3 weekly sales are up (slightly) over September, whereas all other consoles are down significantly.

I thought PS3 sales were down weekly compared to last month? The 360 was always going to struggle to keep up the pace from last month.

Regardless i don't see how that changes what i said.

I suppose people might have been delaying 360 purchases in anticipation of the Kinect bundles.

I don't think people are delaying their purchases for kinect. I just think that kinect is going to move quite a bit of HW. Even if kinect doesn't take off i think the massive advertising campaign and increased awareness of the 360 will lead to increased sales.

Edit:

I'm getting the impression the games industry is heading for a crash. The number of big budget games that immediately tank at retail is just huge. If you're game belongs to a dead genre (platformer, JRPG, RTS, racing, music, skating), don't bother releasing it. If your game isn't absolutely, truly AAA+, don't bother. When highly advertised big budget games like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow and Enslaved bomb horribly, what does that mean for games with even less awareness? To most publishers the only way out is is to spend even more money on a new action game so they can attain AAA+++ status, but that is just gambling with more money and the table and higher risks, because when those mega expensive games bomb it's really over and out...

I suspect the games industry is ready for major cut backs: too many games, too many studios, not enough sales, huge losses ... I don't think there's even one games publisher in the black. All of them are losing money. The only good news to report is when they're losing less money compared to the year before, but they're still hemorrhaging money.

This can't go on.

Have things suddenly got worse without me noticing? Things have been bad for a couple of years why has the doom and gloom gotten so bad in this thread?

I don't think there's even one games publisher in the black.

This is beyond hyperbole this is just plain incorrect and anyone who has even a passing interest in sales age would know this.

If you're game belongs to a dead genre (platformer, JRPG, RTS, racing, music, skating), don't bother releasing it.

:lol

 

[szaromir]

:lol

What's so funny? The genre is dead. DEAD. 20M of NSMB DS DEAD (and countlessother examples).

 

[Thrakier]

So, how much 360 point cards got sold?

 

[Jocchan]

Have things suddenly got worse without me noticing? Things have been bad for a couple of years why has the doom and gloom gotten so bad in this thread?

Because more people are starting to notice the trend.

 

[V_Arnold]

I'm getting the impression the games industry is heading for a crash. The number of big budget games that immediately tank at retail is just huge. If you're game belongs to a dead genre (platformer, JRPG, RTS, racing, music, skating), don't bother releasing it. If your game isn't absolutely, truly AAA+, don't bother. When highly advertised big budget games like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow and Enslaved bomb horribly, what does that mean for games with even less awareness? To most publishers the only way out is is to spend even more money on a new action game so they can attain AAA+++ status, but that is just gambling with more money and the table and higher risks, because when those mega expensive games bomb it's really over and out...

I suspect the games industry is ready for major cut backs: too many games, too many studios, not enough sales, huge losses ... I don't think there's even one games publisher in the black. All of them are losing money. The only good news to report is when they're losing less money compared to the year before, but they're still hemorrhaging money.

This can't go on.

This industry would "Crash" in the moment Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo decides it is time to move on to a next leap, to set up a new generation with 1080p standards, and EVEN more graphical power to tap into. But luckily for (almost) everyone, this wont happen in the next few years. Developing games will not cost more and more this gen anymore, and most studios have already been estabilished their engines and figured out years ago what and how to do. DLC's are additional revenue streams, more "explotiable" than anytime before, so the only cost that will NOT go away is the marketing cost.

But it will increasingly more worth it as more and more consoles are sold.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Because more people are starting to notice the trend.

Indeed. Things are getting very nasty, and I think the only reason everyone has been so quiet about it is that the entire fucking industry is the metaphorical frog in slowly heating water...

 

[Pureauthor]

I've been saying that sooner or later something has to give from as long as two and half years ago.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

What's so funny? The genre is dead. DEAD. 20M of NSMB DS DEAD (and countlessother examples).

It pretty much is commercially dead, though. Mario is a powerful brand, not only in the world of platformers, but other than that, the genre isn't really hot right now. The distant second would probably be Ratchet and Clank which is a) a platformer/shooter hybrid and b) not selling anywhere near the Mario levels.

 

[Psychotext]

I thought PS3 sales were down weekly compared to last month? The 360 was always going to struggle to keep up the pace from last month.

Compared On Weekly Sales

VS 10/2009:
360 : +30.2%
PS3 : -22.0%
NDS : -25.3%
WII : -54.3%
PSP : -57.0%

VS 09/2010
WII : +14.2%
NDS : +6.1%
PS3 : +0.2%
PSP : -12.1%
360 : -16.1%

The PS3 is certainly not the only console up over September.

 

[Freezie KO]

It pretty much is commercially dead, though. Mario is a powerful brand, not only in the world of platformers, but other than that, the genre isn't really hot right now. The distant second would probably be Ratchet and Clank which is a) a platformer/shooter hybrid and b) not selling anywhere near the Mario levels.

Kirby just did 100k this month and is on its way to a 500k LTD in NA alone. Donkey Kong Country is Nintendo's big holiday game. Somehow, Sega is still making Sonic games, both 3D and 2D.

Then there are niche games coming out like N+, Meat Boy, Braid, Lost in Shadow, etc. Platformers aren't not the only genre on the block like the NES days, but it's doing pretty well. Much better than last gen.

 

[teruterubozu]

How is it again that it's Kotick's fault that people didn't enjoy a well-reviewed, well-advertised game like DJ Hero 2 or Blur?

With Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero sure, I understand the scorn, but it's not like the man has the universal touch of death.

Possibly the "unless it's COD/WOW, I'm not buying Activision" sentiment is beginning to stick? I mean, people still bought Madden during EA's evil-lord empire days.

 

[Jocchan]

Possibly the "unless it's COD/WOW, I'm not buying Activision" sentiment is beginning to stick? I mean, people still bought Madden during EA's evil-lord empire days.

wat

 

[Rad-]

Kirby just did 100k this month and is on its way to a 500k LTD in NA alone. Donkey Kong Country is Nintendo's big holiday game. Somehow, Sega is still making Sonic games, both 3D and 2D.

Then there are niche games coming out like N+, Meat Boy, Braid, Lost in Shadow, etc. Platformers aren't not the only genre on the block like the NES days, but it's doing pretty well. Much better than last gen.

The discussion should be "Are 3D platformers dead?". 2D platformers are well alive.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Kirby just did 100k this month and is on its way to a 500k LTD in NA alone. Donkey Kong Country is Nintendo's big holiday game. Somehow, Sega is still making Sonic games, both 3D and 2D.

Then there are niche games coming out like N+, Meat Boy, Braid, Lost in Shadow, etc. Platformers aren't not the only genre on the block like the NES days, but it's doing pretty well. Much better than last gen.

None of those are really big, though, although Donkey Kong might make it (and that's another well known Nintendo brand). I definitely wouldn't agree about it doing better, let alone much better, than last gen. In fact, Mario aside, I would say it's doing significantly worse.

 

[teruterubozu]

wat

wat?

 

[Jocchan]

wat?

Was there anyone really saying "unless it's COD/WOW, I'm not buying Activision" anywhere?

 

[szaromir]

It pretty much is commercially dead, though. Mario is a powerful brand, not only in the world of platformers, but other than that, the genre isn't really hot right now. The distant second would probably be Ratchet and Clank which is a) a platformer/shooter hybrid and b) not selling anywhere near the Mario levels.

Sonic is still the second bniggest brand in the genre.
One recent very successful example would be Trials HD which reached 1.2M a couple of months ago and still going strong. The genre isn't dead, people still enjoy hopping on platforms, you have to know how to reach them. FPS genre also has many bombs as well and no one calls it dead.

 

[Freezie KO]

None of those are really big, though, although Donkey Kong might make it (and that's another well known Nintendo brand). I definitely wouldn't agree about it doing better, let alone much better, than last gen. In fact, Mario aside, I would say it's doing significantly worse.

Very little in video games is "big" unless it has a well-known brand behind it. I think this shows a good range of multi-million selling (NSMB, Mario Galaxy), million selling (DKC, Kirby, Sonic), and niche (everything else). Sounds like a good mix. Anyway, this is just to say that it's not "dead."

 

[teruterubozu]

Was there anyone really saying "unless it's COD/WOW, I'm not buying Activision" anywhere?

Do you visit these forums on a regular basis?

 

[Freezie KO]

Do you visit these forums on a regular basis?

Anyone that actually affects sales charts or larger consumer patterns?