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NPD will no longer release monthly hardware/software unit sales
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
Reginald P. Linux
Banned
Pureauthor said:
You mean neogaf is their source for how well their games do? You don't think their publishers give them accurate sales number?
Shalashaska
Member
They said this last NPD day, but it was worded weirdly.Anerythristic said:
Pureauthor
Member
Reginald P. Linux said:
That has nothing to do with what I was responding to, just FYI.
You still haven't shown how having more information somehow hurts intelligent discourse, by the way.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Nirolak said:
monthly poster depicting office life and npd collector mug?
Pureauthor
Member
Etrian Odyssey 3 sold 500K and no one can say otherwise.
Petrae
Member
Unfortunate news, but not all that surprising when you consider that the NPD data comes at a high price for subscribers and by press getting results at the same time, it devalues the subscriptions. I can remember a time before NPD made some of the data available when some folks here would leak numbers, so I would assume that the data will be available at some point in time.
The timing of the announcement sure is lousy, though. While not 100% accurate, NPD data was the best snapshot of industry sales that we had and the numbers did generate some interesting conversations. Cutting off the data just prior to Q4-- and a predicted "comeback" for the industry after what's been perceived as a "correction" period-- could certainly be read by conspiracy theorists as evidence that there's no real turnaround coming. (Or, perhaps, there may be some concern that new motion control tech and games may not come anywhere near company projections.)
End of an era, I guess.
The timing of the announcement sure is lousy, though. While not 100% accurate, NPD data was the best snapshot of industry sales that we had and the numbers did generate some interesting conversations. Cutting off the data just prior to Q4-- and a predicted "comeback" for the industry after what's been perceived as a "correction" period-- could certainly be read by conspiracy theorists as evidence that there's no real turnaround coming. (Or, perhaps, there may be some concern that new motion control tech and games may not come anywhere near company projections.)
End of an era, I guess.
charlequin said:
I don't know the real answer, but perhaps it has to do with the fact that a game is considered "sold" by publishers when they sell to retail, but studio earnings on movies are based on a percentage of actual ticket sales by theatres. Theatres are obligated to share their box office info, but I doubt retail companies are obligated to share their videogame sell-through numbers. NPD has worked out agreements with a lot of retailers to get their sales info. No one else seems interested in bothering to do the same.
Pureauthor
Member
Gravijah said:
Etrian Odyssey 3 shipped 300K.
The game is so awesome it sold more than it shipped.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
sales age is retarded but this is a dick move. the sooner this industry crashes the better
Having spent a bunch of time in the market research industry, there are likely two reasons why NPD changed its reporting policy:
1) Sales were down (specifically renewals, as I imagine new business opportunities in this market are few and far between -- industry is shrinking not growing), and sales people were complaining that the non-renewals were occurring because customers could get the important stuff for free via PR/media. This is normal and happens all the time in subscription-based businesses, typically during recessions (like this one) where customers cut non-discretionary spending. If this were the reason, NPD might reverse course -- either a) when the economy turns up and there's more to be gained from teasing figures than hiding them, or b) when less freely available data does not lead to better renewals (quelling the "they're not buying because they can get it for free" sales rep argument). Neither could happen, and either could take years.
BUT, I don't think this is the reason, because *the biggest change is no more reporting of hardware data, and hardware data is already available to everybody through manufacturers' SEC filings*. Everybody gets the numbers, just delayed. Which leads me to believe the real reason is...
2) A big customer demanded it. Market research businesses tend to have highly concentrated sales, i.e. a few large customers buy a ton of licenses and can account for a disproportionate share of revenue. These businesses are usually the largest vendors who use their customer status to influence what the market researcher publishes, because the market research announcement themselves influence other people's decisions who don't necessarily subscribe to NPD data (specifically, retailers). The version of this reading would be "MS/Sony don't want people to know that Kinect/Move bombed." Everyone will find out eventually, but with a three-month delay until those companies do financial reports, giving plenty of time to message to nervous retailers.
[end of opinion]
1) Sales were down (specifically renewals, as I imagine new business opportunities in this market are few and far between -- industry is shrinking not growing), and sales people were complaining that the non-renewals were occurring because customers could get the important stuff for free via PR/media. This is normal and happens all the time in subscription-based businesses, typically during recessions (like this one) where customers cut non-discretionary spending. If this were the reason, NPD might reverse course -- either a) when the economy turns up and there's more to be gained from teasing figures than hiding them, or b) when less freely available data does not lead to better renewals (quelling the "they're not buying because they can get it for free" sales rep argument). Neither could happen, and either could take years.
BUT, I don't think this is the reason, because *the biggest change is no more reporting of hardware data, and hardware data is already available to everybody through manufacturers' SEC filings*. Everybody gets the numbers, just delayed. Which leads me to believe the real reason is...
2) A big customer demanded it. Market research businesses tend to have highly concentrated sales, i.e. a few large customers buy a ton of licenses and can account for a disproportionate share of revenue. These businesses are usually the largest vendors who use their customer status to influence what the market researcher publishes, because the market research announcement themselves influence other people's decisions who don't necessarily subscribe to NPD data (specifically, retailers). The version of this reading would be "MS/Sony don't want people to know that Kinect/Move bombed." Everyone will find out eventually, but with a three-month delay until those companies do financial reports, giving plenty of time to message to nervous retailers.
[end of opinion]
Baw. I liked NPD, t'was the most fun day of the month on GAF.
I don't have any emotional investment in them, but I like to see how good or bad certain games sell. I was looking forward to Other M and Dead Rising 2 numbers.
Oh well, I probably won't commit suicide because of this.
I don't have any emotional investment in them, but I like to see how good or bad certain games sell. I was looking forward to Other M and Dead Rising 2 numbers.
Oh well, I probably won't commit suicide because of this.
badcrumble
Member
I'll be very curious to see if and when (and where) information starts leaking.
SlipperySlope
Banned
I miss the full-spreadsheet days.
Neuromancer
Member
It's almost as though sales figures have no effect on the industry (what game series live or die, for example).VGChampion said:
I AM JOHN!
Banned
As much as I hate Sales-Age, anything that gives the Chartz what are related to VGs more power is my enemy.
The information is certianly useful and interesting, but the whole community that has sprung up around reading these numbers like tea leaves is, in my opinion, completely detrimental to the community and what enthusiast media should not be focused on as a whole.
It's also almost as if these numbers bear any relevance to only a scant few GAFers that happen to be investors or analysts, and these numbers serve no purpose to the general enthusiast audience than dick-waving and making stupid arguments based on nothing whatsoever.Neuromancer said:
The information is certianly useful and interesting, but the whole community that has sprung up around reading these numbers like tea leaves is, in my opinion, completely detrimental to the community and what enthusiast media should not be focused on as a whole.
SonOfABeep
Banned
Why don't they just release to the public data from last year this month.
Year old data has to be useless to publishers anyway.
Or 6 months ago. At least we'd have data, even if it isn't up to the minute data.
Year old data has to be useless to publishers anyway.
Or 6 months ago. At least we'd have data, even if it isn't up to the minute data.
Reginald P. Linux
Banned
Neuromancer said:
People in the industry will still have access to those numbers so they'll get the information they need. NPD numbers have nothing to do with anyone on this forum.
This is definitely giant suckage! I always looked and participated in the NPD threads, and it's interesting to see how each console is selling month to month. Without leaks we'll have to depend on the console manufacturers for data, and that's not something I'm all that interested in. I would pay $50 a year for a sub forum on GAF that let's you see the NPD's each month.
I mean at most I can understand being indifferent about this news if you don't care about sales numbers, but there is zero benefit to a forum user if they go away. Sales discussion has, for the most part, been completely relegated to sales threads.
Basically either you are happy to see a large resource of supplemental video game information go to satisfy an overblown minor annoyance you have with some posters, or you are happy to not have them because something reported in the numbers personally offends you.
Either way being specifically joyful about this just makes you a prick. Maybe people who express interest in game sales figures do so because they don't want to live in ignorance.
Basically either you are happy to see a large resource of supplemental video game information go to satisfy an overblown minor annoyance you have with some posters, or you are happy to not have them because something reported in the numbers personally offends you.
Either way being specifically joyful about this just makes you a prick. Maybe people who express interest in game sales figures do so because they don't want to live in ignorance.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
So are they still releasing a sales order? I don't even understand the PR.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
I can't wait for the first fake leak that GAF believes, it is going to be great. :lol
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Pureauthor said:
but making lucky guesses is so much more exciting!
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
the good news is that this means the end of arguments over what system is better or more popular.
CitizenCope
Member
I am sad. Was always entertaining.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Reginald P. Linux said:
Well they are handy in letting us know if we should get our hopes up for seeing sequels to a game we really enjoyed. Also, I can easily say the same thing about sports. That no one other than the athletes themselves and the people who own/manage professional teams should care about sports stats. Doesn't stop millions of people from caring.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Corto said:
I believe these are accurate - I have determined this via a complex system that takes into account sales data rumours, percentages released via PR, Amazon bestseller lists, what's sellin' down at my local game store, and which hardware all my mates are buying.
SlipperySlope
Banned
beelzebozo said:
This will only increase those arguments.... or were you being sarcastic?