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[Fenderputty]

There's a lot more nuance to a civil war than what a flag can symbolize. Everybody fought for their own reasons, and almost nobody even owned slaves. People were poor, and suits had arbitrary boundries tearing families and friends apart.

How do you get a bunch of people who don't own slaves to fight for a rich man's right to own slaves? It wasn't in their economic benefit to fight for the cause. This "nuance" couldn't have been a deeper seeded issue of racism could it?

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

The flag needs to be banned and anyone who gets butt hurt about it needs to be shut down and shamed.

 

[Lubricus]

I am Georgia born and raised and I can tell you that the confederate flag is a symbol of racism. Read about Georgia changing the state flag in 1956:

There is no written record of what was said on the House and Senate floors, when the 1956 flag bill was introduced and passed. Nor does Georgia provide for a statement of legislative intent when a bill is introduced. A subsequent research report, by the Georgia Senate, states that Support for the 1956 flag change can be broken down into two basic arguments: the change was made in preparation for the Civil War centennial, which was five years away; or that the change was made to commemorate and pay tribute to the Confederate veterans of the Civil War.[5] Years later, critics expressed belief that the flag was adopted as a symbol of racist protest, citing legislation passed in 1956 which included bills rejecting Brown v. Board of Education and comments by then-Governor Marvin Griffin that "The rest of the nation is looking to Georgia for the lead in segregation." [6][7] However, there is no reference in official 1956 documents, nor contemporary comments from legislative supporters, nor from the flags designer, John Sammons Bell, linking the flag to Brown v. Board of Education or a racist protest.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)
The state changed it in 2003 because of the offensive nature of the stars and bars.
All my life people in Georgia believed it as a symbol of racism

 

[Suikoguy]

The flag needs to be banned and anyone who gets butt hurt about it needs to be shut down and shamed.

I view it as:

You can fly the flag, but you need to fly the American flag next to it.

Flying the flag by itself is just poor taste.

 

[Trouble]

I view it as:

You can fly the flag, but you need to fly the American flag next to it.

Flying the flag by itself is just poor taste.

So it's cool to fly a swastika if I fly a German flag with it, by that logic.

 

[Fathead]

Because this is the United States, I support anyone who wants to fly that flag, as I support freedom of expression.


I also support the right of any sane person to tell the person flying that flag that they are a horrible, racist person and should be ashamed, as I support freedom of speech.

 

[Link]

Because this is the United States, I support anyone who wants to fly that flag, as I support freedom of expression.


I also support the right of any sane person to tell the person flying that flag that they are a horrible, racist person and should be ashamed, as I support freedom speech.

 

[Suikoguy]

So it's cool to fly a swastika if I fly a German flag with it, by that logic.

They are not really as comparable as people make them out to be. The entire country of Germany changed it's flag, there was no civil war within the country.

At this point, nobody is alive from that period of US history. It's family and local history at this point, not personal history. But at least when jointly used with the American flag, it looks as and you can make the argument that you are remembering it as a point in history, and not as a way it should be now. Especially if your family history is closely tied to that period. When I see the Confederate flag by itself, I see it as a "fuck you, we should have won that war".

On the other hand, I've yet to see them both flown together in person here in Florida, which is why I see the whole heritage argument as bullshit and that was my original intention of the argument which I did not make originally clear.

 

[Bregor]

Interesting, how were they just as restrictive?

Sorry I got to responding to this so late.

They were the first to institute widespread conscription, before the north did. They also censored the press, less severely but more widespread. And they brutally put down several unionist uprisings in portions of the South who were against secession.

As far as states rights go, it's worth pointing out that they were only for them when it meant defending slavery. They were against any potential interference in slavery in southern states, but they campaigned vigorously for Federal Fugitive Slave laws overriding northern states laws which were designed to assist runaway slaves.

 

[Trouble]

They are not really as comparable as people make them out to be. The entire country of Germany changed it's flag, there was no civil war within the country.

At this point, nobody is alive from that period of US history. It's family and local history at this point, not personal history. But at least when jointly used with the American flag, it looks as and you can make the argument that you are remembering it as a point in history, and not as a way it should be now. Especially if your family history is closely tied to that period. When I see the Confederate flag by itself, I see it as a "fuck you, we should have won that war".

On the other hand, I've yet to see them both flown together in person here in Florida, which is why I see the whole heritage argument as bullshit and that was my original intention of the argument which I did not make originally clear.

Literally everyone who flies the rebel flag in this day and age is sending that message, whether they intend to or not (hint: they pretty much all intend to). I don't see how flying it along with the American flag changes that at all.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Literally everyone who flies the rebel flag in this day and age is sending that message, whether they intend to or not (hint: they pretty much all intend to). I don't see how flying it along with the American flag changes that at all.

It doesn't. In fact, it's contradictory.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

It doesn't. In fact, it's contradictory.

Exactly. The flag is a symbol of their attempt at secession from the Union as well. Flying it with an American flag shows they have no idea what the fuck it's even suppose to represent other than "Muh history"

 

[makingmusic476]

To those who talk of connecting to their ancestors, I always want to ask, why specifically your Confederate ancestors? What about those that lived ten years earlier? Or ten years later? Those that survived the Depression? Or fought in either of the World Wars? Why are Yoi do attached to that specific period? I suspect the reasons aren't very good.

I used to be a "Southern pride!" sorta guy that'd wave my battle flag and delude myself into thinking the war was all about states' rights and tarrifs, but as I grew away from my subtly racist upbringing and began to understand the disgusting class system my ancestors were fighting to defend, I did everything I could to distance myself from that shit.

 

[makingmusic476]

Literally everyone who flies the rebel flag in this day and age is sending that message, whether they intend to or not (hint: they pretty much all intend to). I don't see how flying it along with the American flag changes that at all.

In some very rare instances I could see it as legitimate.

We have a few locations here in New Orleans that fly the flags of every nation that's ever controlled the city. France, Spain, US, CSA, and the Louisiana Republic (for the brief period it existed before joining the CSA).

Some even distinguish between the French monarchy and the Napoleonic flag.