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[ymoc]

reactors are pretty cool
i want one.

Where is that, Slovenia?

 

[ЯAW]

What this tells me is that clearly Solar/Wind /Hydro is the way to go. Negligible differences compared to Nuclear WITHOUT the insanely long-term risk that Nuclear poses to ourselves and our environment. Not to mention that the STAIN Chernobyl has put on the earth's face around the accident zone is not expressable with a human death / tw ratio. Same goes for Fukushima.

Agreed, except for Hydro. I'm assuming by hydro we mainly mean dams, and dams can have unwanted problems for the environment. Problems can be avoided with proper studies but I am pessimistic about China and India conducting proper studies when they build their dams.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6115/36.summary

 

[SpoonyBard]

does that make nuclear disaster acceptable?

What kind of question is stihs? In a way, yes, because it is counted in. You are much less likely to die due to nuclear disaster than getting cancer from diesel exhaust.

 

[TCRS]

So far the best storage technology seeme to be combining solar or wind with water energy. Basically you use energy from wind and solar to pump water upstream, and then using turbines to generate electricity as needed. Needles to say this is a pretty expensive solution.

Even today that is not sufficient. Renewable energy is causing havoc in Germany's grid and that of neighbouring countries due to it's natural volatility and lack of storage. Suddenly a strong gust of wind -> higher energy production -> no demand for it and no storage -> overburdens grid and gets pushed to neighbouring countries (especially Poland) -> overburdens their grid.

By 2020 the share of renewable energy production in Germany is predicted to be 146 TWh, currently there is enough storage for 0,04 TWh. The only viable solution is power to gas (storage capacity >200TWh) but that has an efficiency of ~20%... so much wastage but the producers will of course get paid for all of it (guaranteed renumeration for 20 years).

 

[robertsan21]

What this tells me is that clearly Solar/Wind /Hydro is the way to go. Negligible differences compared to Nuclear WITHOUT the insanely long-term risk that Nuclear poses to ourselves and our environment. Not to mention that the STAIN Chernobyl has put on the earth's face around the accident zone is not expressable with a human death / tw ratio. Same goes for Fukushima.

Hydro needs to go!
It kills everything that lives in the river, its not green energy.

 

[Irminsul]

By 2020 the share of renewable energy production in Germany is predicted to be 146 TWh, currently storage is enough for 0,04 TWh. The only viable solution is power to gas (storage capacity >200TWh) but that has an efficiency of ~20%... so much wastage but the producers will of course get paid for all of it (guaranteed renumeration for 20 years).

Do you mean a production of 146 TW or are you comparing the yearly production to the storage capacity? I mean, you usually don't store energy for a year or so.

 

[TCRS]

Do you mean a production of 146 TW or are you comparing the yearly production to the storage capacity? I mean, you usually don't store energy for a year or so.

146TWh/365 days = 0.4TWh. That's how much potential storage there should be for each day, but renewable energy production is of course not the same throughout the year. Especially in summer there is often a higher production during the day with little demand and that energy cannot be stored in large capacities.

 

[V_Arnold]

Agreed, except for Hydro. I'm assuming by hydro we mainly mean dams, and dams can have unwanted problems for the environment. Problems can be avoided with proper studies but I am pessimistic about China and India conducting proper studies when they build their dams.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6115/36.summary

Hydro needs to go!
It kills everything that lives in the river, its not green energy.

I am convinced then, let us cross hydro out. Solar+Wind, then.

Oh, and also, in the not so far future, we could operate tiny nuclear reactors in the space, once we solve the dilemma of storing and transporting power. Many of the dangers of radiation becomes less relevant when the operation is carried out in a huge distance from Eath's land/atmosphere.

 

[Purkake4]

Geothermal for lyfe.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Relevant:
http://jmkorhonen.net/2013/08/15/graph-of-the-week-what-happens-if-nuclear-waste-repository-leaks/

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Geothermal for lyfe.

Here here. This is especially relevant to Japan with all its natural hot springs all over the place. Just ready for the tapping. This is the direction Japan shouldve went.

 

[ymoc]

Here here. This is especially relevant to Japan with all its natural hot springs all over the place. Just ready for the tapping. This is the direction Japan shouldve went.

Exactly! It just boggles my mind how much energy is lying under the very feet of so many Japanese and they don't do anything serious about it. At all.
If my house was anywhere near that kind of geothermal potential, I would've invested in a god damn geothermal power plant and become the local energy overlord muahahahahaha.
But seriosly, beyond the initial investment, that's basically free energy, providing your house with heating and electricity. The Japanese government should invest heavily into geothermal industry and start transforming the country. Hell, they should tax TEPCO for causing the biggest shitfest in the history of Japan and use that money to push for the geothermal future, killing two birds with one stone (eliminate the electric companies monopoly, which is just disgusting to put it mildly, and start a green revolution).

 

[LaserBuddha]

Here here. This is especially relevant to Japan with all its natural hot springs all over the place. Just ready for the tapping. This is the direction Japan shouldve went.

This is more important IMO:

 

[MesserWolf]

Fukushima worker accidentally switches off cooling pumps; backup kicks in

Source

You know, if it weren't so serious, this would be pretty funny.

Dear god ..... they are actually transforming the Simpson in a documentary.

How could it be designed to be accidentally turned off in the first place ? bah .... at least they "tested" the backup system now.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

This is more important IMO:

With Geo thermal you can enjoy both without losing snow monkies.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Dear god ..... they are actually transforming the Simpson in a documentary.

How could it be designed to be accidentally turned off in the first place ? bah .... at least they "tested" the backup system now.

Yeah it's pretty bad. Life imitating art at its worst. This is what you get when you sub contract your staff 2 to 3 shell companies down the line. We've got mostly day laborers doing mid to high level engineering for around 100 bucks a day no health benefits. It's bad.

 

[Kinitari]

I am convinced then, let us cross hydro out. Solar+Wind, then.

Oh, and also, in the not so far future, we could operate tiny nuclear reactors in the space, once we solve the dilemma of storing and transporting power. Many of the dangers of radiation becomes less relevant when the operation is carried out in a huge distance from Eath's land/atmosphere.

Or we could just use better nuclear power plants that can't melt down. Considering the record of Nuclear is already really good - a handful of incidences that have killed substantially less than any other power source - it should already be in peoples minds as the safest source of energy we currently have. With later generations, it becomes impossible for nuclear plants to melt down, thus eliminating that small chance for issue.

 

[Purkake4]

The Salon has a nice summary of the last month at Fukushima:

Sept. 19: 80 gallons of water leaked from fire-fighting pipe damaged during debris removal operations.
Sept. 26: A fence set up to contain radioactive sediment from spilling into the sea was found to have a hole in it.
Sept. 27: After months spent repairing it, a water-treatment machine failed. It was found to be clogged by a piece of rubber that was mistakenly left inside it.
Oct. 2: Workers pumped too much radioactive water into a storage tank, causing it to overflow and spill 110 gallons of radioactive water into the sea.
Oct. 9: Six workers were accidentally doused with highly radioactive water after removing the wrong pipe from equipment.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Yeah the workers getting splashed with contaminated water was a big one this week. Apparently they built a row of tanks on a slope and placed a level gauge in the highest tank. Well if you've completed elementary you'd know that the highest one will fill up slower than the one on the bottom. So they basically made a mistake that shouldn't have been made at such a level as nuclear plant engineering. I'm glad these guys aren't running the international space station.

 

[MesserWolf]

The Salon has a nice summary of the last month at Fukushima:

unbelievable .........

 

[xenist]

Yeah the workers getting splashed with contaminated water was a big one this week. Apparently they built a row of tanks on a slope and placed a level gauge in the highest tank. Well if you've completed elementary you'd know that the highest one will fill up slower than the one on the bottom. So they basically made a mistake that shouldn't have been made at such a level as nuclear plant engineering. I'm glad these guys aren't running the international space station.

No way. A first year student in a third rate engineering school wouldn't have made such a mistake. The details HAVE to be wrong.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Here's link and a diagram showing what happened. I'm afraid this really did happen.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.jp/2013/10/pictorial-elementary-mistake-in-water.html?m=1

 

[BocoDragon]

The Salon has a nice summary of the last month at Fukushima:

Sept. 19: 80 gallons of water leaked from fire-fighting pipe damaged during debris removal operations.
Sept. 26: A fence set up to contain radioactive sediment from spilling into the sea was found to have a hole in it.
Sept. 27: After months spent repairing it, a water-treatment machine failed. It was found to be clogged by a piece of rubber that was mistakenly left inside it.
Oct. 2: Workers pumped too much radioactive water into a storage tank, causing it to overflow and spill 110 gallons of radioactive water into the sea.
Oct. 9: Six workers were accidentally doused with highly radioactive water after removing the wrong pipe from equipment.

*Benny Hill music*

 

[MesserWolf]

Yeah the workers getting splashed with contaminated water was a big one this week. Apparently they built a row of tanks on a slope and placed a level gauge in the highest tank. Well if you've completed elementary you'd know that the highest one will fill up slower than the one on the bottom. So they basically made a mistake that shouldn't have been made at such a level as nuclear plant engineering. I'm glad these guys aren't running the international space station.

you are saying that they have only one level gauge and not one per each tank ? honestly I do not believe it.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

You can't make this stuff up. I know it's hard to believe but this is the quality of work being carried out at the disaster site.

 

[Kreunt]

I hate the way they list the volumes of water leaked, its entirely meaningless without any information on what the water contained and in what concentrations.

Where is that, Slovenia?

No idea, It's just a little research/isotope production reactor though, some universities have them.

 

[linsivvi]

For those too lazy to click on Fuji's link.

Unbelievable.

 

[MesserWolf]

For those too lazy to click on Fuji's link.

Unbelievable.

are we sure it is accurate ? what is the source aside the blog ?

 

[linsivvi]

are we sure it is accurate ? what is the source aside the blog ?

Japanese newspaper.

http://mainichi.jp/select/news/20131004k0000m040119000c.html

 

[ЯAW]

are we sure it is accurate ? what is the source aside the blog ?

Seems like Mainichi's source comes directly from TEPCO. TEPCO officials are admiting their error in installing the tank.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

For those too lazy to click on Fuji's link.

Unbelievable.

Thanks for linking the image. I am doing this from my phone so it's a little bit of a pain to link images.

This may be from a blog but it's legit info translated to English by the blogger with the article taken from the Mainichi Shinbun.

 

[Shouta]

Dear god. How stupid can these people be. -_- That has to be the most ridiculous oversight ever.

 

[Insane Metal]

Shit

 

[DrM]

Seems like Mainichi's source comes directly from TEPCO. TEPCO officials are admiting their error in installing the tank.

Looks like surveyors made some big mistakes.

No idea, It's just a little research/isotope production reactor though, some universities have them.

This one is in Slovenia, it is small research reactor near Ljubljana. We have our own nuclear plant in Krško.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

What this tells me is that clearly Solar/Wind /Hydro is the way to go. Negligible differences compared to Nuclear WITHOUT the insanely long-term risk that Nuclear poses to ourselves and our environment. Not to mention that the STAIN Chernobyl has put on the earth's face around the accident zone is not expressable with a human death / tw ratio. Same goes for Fukushima.

Maybe someday solar and wind will be capable of providing sufficient energy, but right now they can't.

The problem with both of those is that they need to be backed up by something capable of providing a base load, generally a coal plant. And since you can't simply turn coal plants on and off, they have to run all the time. The result of this is that "wind power" is essentially "expensive coal", and has minimal-at-best environmental and health benefits.

And the effects of Chernobyl are rather overplayed. Relatively few people died, the Exclusion Zone has become a tourist hot-spot as of late, and is inhabited by both wildlife and humans; compare this to our ongoing use of fossil fuels, which will have global impacts that will be felt for generations.

And as I mentioned before, a nuke plant put up today would be virtually immune to catastrophic meltdowns. Both Fukushima and Chernobyl used outdated designs, and only failed because of stupid mistakes that couldn't occur in a modern plant.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Japanese PM eats seafood caught off Fukushima

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ese-PM-eats-seafood-caught-off-Fukushima.html

Sayonara, Abe-san.

 

[saunderez]

Japanese PM eats seafood caught off Fukushima

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ese-PM-eats-seafood-caught-off-Fukushima.html

Sayonara, Abe-san.

As if they didn't wave a geiger counter over that before they let anyone eat it.

 

[Dice]

What if that is just an obscure sort of seppuku.

 

[HovaHovito]

I feel like they've got the three stooges heading the clean up efforts
Blunder after blunder

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Japanese PM eats seafood caught off Fukushima

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ese-PM-eats-seafood-caught-off-Fukushima.html

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02709/shinzo_2709291b.jpg

Sayonara, Abe-san.

On the bright side, they didn't have to cook it as it was already boiled when they caught it.

 

[saunderez]

On the bright side, they didn't have to cook it as it was already boiled when they caught it.

Blinky looks delicious!

 

[jimi_dini]

Cross post into this one. I think this thread is more recent.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/18/national/water-radiation-soars-at-fukushima-no-1/

Water radiation soars at Fukushima No. 1

Radiation levels in groundwater under Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant are soaring, Tepco said Friday after taking samples from an observation well.

Tepco said 400,000 becquerels per liter of beta ray-emitting substances such as strontium were detected in water sampled Thursday from the well located some 15 meters from a storage tank that leaked about 300 tons of highly radioactive water in August.

The level of becquerels, a record high for water in that well, was up 6,500-fold from the 61 becquerels found Wednesday.

But that plan appears in jeopardy because the sharp increase in the levels of radioactive materials in the observation well suggest the radioactive groundwater is spreading.

By law, water containing beta particle-emitting substances exceeding certain levels cannot be released into the sea. The upper limit is set at 30 becquerels per liter for strontium-90 and 60 becquerels for cesium-134.

Tepco also said water collected Thursday from a drainage ditch near the leaky tank contained 34,000 becquerels of beta particle-emitting substances per liter, compared with 2,300 becquerels the day before

Officials said Thursday they will solicit proposals from both domestic and overseas nuclear experts and firms on how best to scrap the ruined reactors at Fukushima No. 1.

The International Research Institute for Nuclear Decommissioning will publicly seek ideas as early as this month, an institute official said

They are NOW doing this? Holy fuck. Could someone please get rid of these clowns?


And additionally:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24606357

The clean-up of the exclusion zone around the crippled plant was initially due to be completed by next March.

...

The government's latest prediction is that residents will be able to return home by 2017.

...

Ministry officials cited several reasons for the delay, including a lack of space for the waste from the decontamination work.

No shit sherlock.

On Sunday, the rainwater run-off - which becomes contaminated when it hits polluted surfaces areas - overflowed concrete barriers surrounding a group of tanks, reports citing the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) say.

Tepco says that in one area, readings of Strontium-90 were at 70 times the legal limit for safe disposal.

"Our pumps could not keep up with the rainwater. As a result, it flowed over some containment areas," Tepco spokesman, Yoshikazu Nagai, told Reuters news agency.

More rains are expected in Japan, with meteorologists forecasting a typhoon to make landfall this week.

smfh

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

TEPCO is brazenly skirting their responsibility for cleanup compensation for the surrounding area of their failed power plant in Fukushima. The article sounds like it's TEPCOs decision if they should be funding cleanup or not and how much. This is the wrong attitude for the company to have.

While I believe the cleanup procedures that are being carried out by the government is laughably amateurish and often do more to concentrate the pollution than remove it , TEPCO is being given way too much say in all this. They shouldn't be calling the shots here. They should be bleeding money till many years after the fact.

Here's a link to the Japan Times article. It's so sickening what they are getting away with.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/29/national/tepco-refuses-to-fund-outside-cleanup/

 

[Gallbaro]

The Olympics are going to be Rad.

 

[Archer]

The Olympics are going to be Rad.

nice

 

[Purkake4]

TEPCO is brazenly skirting their responsibility for cleanup compensation for the surrounding area of their failed power plant in Fukushima. The article sounds like it's TEPCOs decision if they should be funding cleanup or not and how much. This is the wrong attitude for the company to have.

While I believe the cleanup procedures that are being carried out by the government is laughably amateurish and often do more to concentrate the pollution than remove it , TEPCO is being given way too much say in all this. They shouldn't be calling the shots here. They should be bleeding money till many years after the fact.

Here's a link to the Japan Times article. It's so sickening what they are getting away with.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/29/national/tepco-refuses-to-fund-outside-cleanup/

Is there an actual reason why the government hasn't taken over from the quite obviously incompetent TEPCO like years ago? Oh and what happened to the international assistance?

 

[Valkerionseven]

Its pretty disturbing how little coverage this is getting in the media in Japan. Mass media anyway. There were reports of the leaks and cracks but there was so little info given in the basic morning news reports over like 5mins max, compared to the fucking 45mins they give to covering baseball each morning...

& I realize Abe tries to be mr. likeable and all, but he needs to crack some heads with this one.

 

[BocoDragon]

Its pretty disturbing how little coverage this is getting in the media in Japan. Mass media anyway. There were reports of the leaks and cracks but there was so little info given in the basic morning news reports over like 5mins max, compared to the fucking 45mins they give to covering baseball each morning...

& I realize Abe tries to be mr. likeable and all, but he needs to crack some heads with this one.

I've been telling people, if you want to forget about Fukushima, go to Japan.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Is there an actual reason why the government hasn't taken over from the quite obviously incompetent TEPCO like years ago? Oh and what happened to the international assistance?

As far as I can tell the government is supporting this behavior by allowing TEPCO to exist as a corporation that is still trying to run in the black... although officially they'll say otherwise. The government wants to look proactive by telling TEPCO to clean up its act but when it comes to actually enforcing it...er, well that's why we are still no better off than we were in March 2011 when this all started. TEPCO is one of those too big to fail mega corporations. While it would be in the country's and world's best interest to just let the company die and get some real serious work in there, there's no serious effort in government to do otherwise.

 

[jimi_dini]

Guys, I hope this is a fake or something

http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/news/146-mjt

EDIT: see next page

NEWS FLASH - URGENT - December 28, 2013 11:00 PM EST -- (TRN http://www.TurnerRadioNetwork.com ) -- Persons residing on the west coast of North America should IMMEDIATELY begin preparing for another possible onslaught of dangerous atmospheric radiation from the Fukushima nuclear disaster site in Japan. The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) says radioactive steam has suddenly begun emanating from previously exploded nuclear reactor building #3 at the Fukuishima disaster site in Japan.

On December 28, 2013, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) admitted steam was seen billowing out of reactor building #3, saying the steam appeared to be coming from what's left of the fifth floor of the mostly-destroyed building. It is widely known that persons cannot get inside Reactor Building #3 because it is severely damaged and highly radioactive, so TEPCO cannot state for certain what is happening in that building or why. TEPCO admits they do not know why this steam is being generated, but matter-of-factly revealed today (December 28) the steam was first spotted on December 19 for a short period of time, then again on December 24 and again on December 25.

A few days old, I couldn't find a thread about it.

Someone with the ability to read Japanese, please take a look at this:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu-news/2013/1233248_5304.html