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[Skinpop]

Yeah, this is getting scary.

If tons of radioactive water are leaking into the pacific daily, this is a much bigger issue that could have global ramifications. This shouldn't just be left up to Japan anymore.

How is nobody talking about this?

No, not really, levels are lower than 2011 and even though it's disastrous for local marine life it's not going to reach dangerous levels further than a few hundred miles away from the coast at worst. Thinking this could somehow become global and wash up dangerous radioactive waste on shores around the world is an uneducated irrational fear

Contamination of the groundwater could have dire consequences though, but I think the bigger issue is how poorly officials(government and tepco) have been handling the crisis. It's not very surprising though, the trust in politicians have steadily declined the past decade in japan. Over the last seven years they've swapped prime ministers the same number of times - that abundantly signals the lack of vitality in japanese politics.

Voter turnout is dropping below 60%, the lowest in almost ten years. OECD average is something like 70% again showing how the general population is losing faith in politics.

 

[abuC]

Turn down.

For what?

 

[acrid]

I remember reading somewhere that these particular plants were still operating under outdated pre-chernobyl safety regulations at the time of the accident, and that had they been brought up to standard the current crisis could have been avoided. Is that true?

As far as I know in the U.S, a lot of nukes that came online in the 70's and 80's were developed with 60's technology. As time has gone on, yes, a lot of the equipment reaches it's "end of life" manufacturer guarantee, such as relays, contact blocks, transmitters, etc., but they are replaced with engineering reviewed and approved like parts.

3 Mile Island was due to human error, not equipment failure or safety standards. The operators did not understand some of their instrumentation readings, nor did they heed the advice of the instrumentation techs. Due to that accident, there have been many studies and specialized training programs implemented as part of nuclear safety. INPO (http://www.inpo.info/AboutUs.htm) came about after 3 Mile and audit our plant 2-3 times a year as a result.

Chernobyl was absolute insanity. A lot of political pressure, ego, and greed caused that accident. There were some issues with construction of the plant and short cuts were taken. Again though, the actual disaster could have been prevented had the operators followed standard procedure instead of running a dangerous test. Many safety systems in Chernobyl were knowingly turned off to run the test. Various control room operators told their senior operators that what they were doing was extremely dangerous, but their superiors threatened them for bringing it up and would have them jailed if they attempted to stop the test. The key point to take away here is that safety systems were bypassed and moments later, due to human error, the reactor exploded. Many other plants were asked to run the test previously, but the plant owners refused due to safety concerns.

Again, I can't speak too much on Fukishima, as I don't know much about the construction nor do I know how many structures in Japan can withstand a 9.0 magnitude quake. I do know that as a result of Fukishima, US plants have implemented new safety and back up systems to keep cooling water flowing through the reactor and fuel pools in order to keep them cool in the event of a similar disaster.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The idea I heard a few weeks ago that they were thinking about was making an ice wall so it would freeze all the escaping water.

Yeah but where will the water go?

 

[lupinko]

Put Iwata in charge of Japan.

He'd run the country into the fucking ground but nobody would care because they'd be putting out FUCKING ADORABLE ANIME AND VIDEOGAMES DESU DESUUUUU.

Time for the hardest working man in show business to help out again.

http://youtu.be/L_a_rxUGlvU

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I remember reading somewhere that these particular plants were still operating under outdated pre-chernobyl safety regulations at the time of the accident, and that had they been brought up to standard the current crisis could have been avoided. Is that true?

The problem with Fukushima was that they put the back-up generator in it's own building, instead of in the much stronger containment chamber like every other nuke plant in the area. Sometimes it's really just that simple.

 

[Lamel]

Horrible.

But nuclear power is still safest technically.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Japan PM seeks overseas help on Fukushima leak

About fucking time. Never should have left them to handle this on their own. Not out of incompetence, but this is just far too serious an event with far too global ramifications for any one country to take on. Let's stem this shit before it gets worse.

 

[MrHicks]

Horrible.

But nuclear power is still safest technically.

lol
how is wind or water not safer?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

lol
how is wind or water not safer?

wind kills birds. Think of the birds!

 

[Ether_Snake]

lol
how is wind or water not safer?

Because he's bullshitting.

"Guns don't kill people" kind of thinking.

 

[s7evn]

Because he's bullshitting.

"Guns don't kill people" kind of thinking.

It's much more efficient though.

 

[Mako_Drug]

lol
how is wind or water not safer?

I doubt either of those are feasible alternatives for Japan.

 

[Ether_Snake]

It's much more efficient though.

It is holding the world in hostage. We can put an end to all other forms of energy production easily, with recovery occurring right away. The only reason we still have so much pollution is because of lobbies, not because of inefficiency of renewable energy, which would be much more advanced today if it wasn't for lobbies.

 

[xenist]

No, not really, levels are lower than 2011 and even though it's disastrous for local marine life it's not going to reach dangerous levels further than a few hundred miles away from the coast at worst. Thinking this could somehow become global and wash up dangerous radioactive waste on shores around the world is an uneducated irrational fear

Phew. Just a few hundred miles?

 

[Lamel]

lol
how is wind or water not safer?

Hydro has had more accidents/fatalities than Nuclear. Think dam collapse.

I should have also specified that I meant out of efficient and major sources.

There have been three major accidents in nuclear plants in history, 3 mile island, chernobyl, and fukushima.

Because he's bullshitting.

"Guns don't kill people" kind of thinking.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Safety-and-Security/Safety-of-Plants/Safety-of-Nuclear-Power-Reactors/#.UlJYU4bqSVo

Lol "guns don't kill people" logic? I'm not even bothering with this shitty comparison.

 

[youngplaya21]

Phew. Just a few hundred miles?

I'll take that over the post saying it'll be hitting California coasts soon

 

[goomba]

Hydro has had more accidents/fatalities than Nuclear. Think dam collapse.

I should have also specified that I meant out of efficient and major sources.

There have been three major accidents in nuclear plants in history, 3 mile island, chernobyl, and fukushima.



http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Safety-and-Security/Safety-of-Plants/Safety-of-Nuclear-Power-Reactors/#.UlJYU4bqSVo

hydro accidents can't make an area uninhabitable for hundreds of years nor damage dna for generations .

 

[No Love]

Hydro has had more accidents/fatalities than Nuclear. Think dam collapse.

I should have also specified that I meant out of efficient and major sources.

There have been three major accidents in nuclear plants in history, 3 mile island, chernobyl, and fukushima.



http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Safety-and-Security/Safety-of-Plants/Safety-of-Nuclear-Power-Reactors/#.UlJYU4bqSVo

And those were all caused by dumbasses being cheap and ignoring safety regulations. It's not that nuclear is unsafe... it's that we need to make sure that ignorant/stupid humans don't screw shit up or be allowed to be cheap/careless when it comes to nuclear safety.

 

[Lamel]

hydro accidents can't make an area uninhabitable for hundreds of years nor damage dna for generations .

True.

Nuclear accidents are still rarer, and the security measures taken are extreme. Accidents will occur nonetheless.

Statistically speaking is all I am saying.

 

[border]

I have a friend that pretty much believes whatever YouTube videos she watches. She thinks at all her friends on the West Coast will pretty much be dead in a couple years due to spreading radiation. She now refuses to eat fish of any kind.

Is there anything I can do to convince her that the problems are pretty much localized? Is it a good idea to avoid fish for the foreseeable future?

 

[2MF]

I wonder if I should stop buying tea from Japan...

 

[SpoonyBard]

I have a friend that pretty much believes whatever YouTube videos she watches. She thinks at all her friends on the West Coast will pretty much be dead in a couple years due to spreading radiation. She now refuses to eat fish of any kind.

Is there anything I can do to convince her that the problems are pretty much localized? Is it a good idea to avoid fish for the foreseeable future?

Tell her that she probably gets more radiation from the nuclear tests that were conducted in Nevada desert. Maybe she'll move to east coast.

 

[mjontrix]

Put Iwata in charge of Japan.

He'd run the country into the fucking ground but nobody would care because they'd be putting out FUCKING ADORABLE ANIME AND VIDEOGAMES DESU DESUUUUU.

 

[dokish]

Earth Radiation Council needs to be formed. Total transparceny, globally enforced, no one can handle any nuclear plants without them seeing/accessing to everything.

When is this going to happen?

Mass Effect 4.

 

[iamaustrian]

It doesn't matter that nuclear power is "safe" and "clean".
The unsolved problem are the hundrets of thousands tons of radioactive waste each year.
putting extremly dangerous stuff which radiats for 100.000 years into mountains or abandoned tunnels is certainly not a good or/and future proof idea (see germany and france). Those "sealed" deposits will start to leak someday. some of them already did after
a couple of years.

and don't get me started on the dozens of russian and east-europe plants and their waste management(i.e.:dumping into the ocean, lakes whatever).

extreme example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay

According to a report by the Washington, D.C.-based Worldwatch Institute on nuclear waste, Karachay is the most polluted spot on Earth.[2] The lake accumulated some 4.44 exabecquerels (EBq) of radioactivity,[3] including 3.6 EBq of caesium-137 and 0.74 EBq of strontium-90.[1] For comparison, the Chernobyl disaster released from 5 to 12 EBq of radioactivity, but this radiation is not concentrated in one location.

The radiation level in the region near where radioactive effluent is discharged into the lake was 600 röntgens per hour (approximately 6 Sv/h) in 1990, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Natural Resources Defense Council,[4][5] sufficient to give a lethal dose to a human within an hour.

Starting in the 1960s, the lake began to dry out; its area dropped from 0.5 km2 in 1951[1] to 0.15 km2 by the end of 1993.[6] In 1968, following a drought in the region, the wind carried 185 PBq (5 MCi) of radioactive dust away from the dried area of the lake, irradiating half a million people.[3]

Between 1978 and 1986 the lake was filled with almost 10,000 hollow concrete blocks to prevent sediments from shifting.

with concrete filled up Lake Karachy

Google Maps link (a spooky image)

 

[SpoonyBard]

It doesn't matter that nuclear power is "safe" and "clean".]

What matters is that the alternatives are much worse.

edit: okay, let's say most of the alternatives. Water and natural gas may be about as good as nuclear, even if they produce more deaths per TWh due to accidents.

 

[Irminsul]

Fukushima worker accidentally switches off cooling pumps; backup kicks in

The operator of Japan’s crippled Fukushima nuclear plant said on Monday that pumps used to inject water to cool damaged reactors were hit by a power failure, but a backup system kicked in immediately.

The Nuclear Regulation Authority said a worker conducting system inspections mistakenly pushed a button turning off power to some of the systems in the four reactor buildings at the Fukushima plant.

Source

You know, if it weren't so serious, this would be pretty funny.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

As far as I know in the U.S, a lot of nukes that came online in the 70's and 80's were developed with 60's technology. As time has gone on, yes, a lot of the equipment reaches it's "end of life" manufacturer guarantee, such as relays, contact blocks, transmitters, etc., but they are replaced with engineering reviewed and approved like parts.

3 Mile Island was due to human error, not equipment failure or safety standards. The operators did not understand some of their instrumentation readings, nor did they heed the advice of the instrumentation techs. Due to that accident, there have been many studies and specialized training programs implemented as part of nuclear safety. INPO (http://www.inpo.info/AboutUs.htm) came about after 3 Mile and audit our plant 2-3 times a year as a result.

Chernobyl was absolute insanity. A lot of political pressure, ego, and greed caused that accident. There were some issues with construction of the plant and short cuts were taken. Again though, the actual disaster could have been prevented had the operators followed standard procedure instead of running a dangerous test. Many safety systems in Chernobyl were knowingly turned off to run the test. Various control room operators told their senior operators that what they were doing was extremely dangerous, but their superiors threatened them for bringing it up and would have them jailed if they attempted to stop the test. The key point to take away here is that safety systems were bypassed and moments later, due to human error, the reactor exploded. Many other plants were asked to run the test previously, but the plant owners refused due to safety concerns.

Again, I can't speak too much on Fukishima, as I don't know much about the construction nor do I know how many structures in Japan can withstand a 9.0 magnitude quake. I do know that as a result of Fukishima, US plants have implemented new safety and back up systems to keep cooling water flowing through the reactor and fuel pools in order to keep them cool in the event of a similar disaster.

The problem with Fukushima was that they put the back-up generator in it's own building, instead of in the much stronger containment chamber like every other nuke plant in the area. Sometimes it's really just that simple.

Thanks for the detailed answers!

 

[xenist]

Fukushima worker accidentally switches off cooling pumps; backup kicks in

Source

You know, if it weren't so serious, this would be pretty funny.

You know what they say, Tragedy + Time = Comedy.

 

[jimi_dini]

What matters is that the alternatives are much worse.

So the waste of those "alternatives" needs to be stored even more than just thousands of years?

 

[SpoonyBard]

So the waste of those "alternatives" needs to be stored even more than just thousands of years?

For example CO2, expect it isn't stored properly. Climate change may kill millions of people...

 

[V_Arnold]

What matters is that the alternatives are much worse.

edit: okay, let's say most of the alternatives. Water and natural gas may be about as good as nuclear, even if they produce more deaths per TWh due to accidents.

There is death, and there is long-lasting environmental damage that not only results in direct deaths, it can also lead to decreased life expetancy, increased potential for cancer and many other potentially lethal repercussions.

For example CO2, expect it isn't stored properly. Climate change may kill millions of people...

You need to have a special worldview to compare CO2 to nuclear waste and radiation. WTB Trees that eat the latter for breakfast.

 

[jimi_dini]

For example CO2, expect it isn't stored properly.

What?
You know about photosynthesis?
Too much CO2 is problematic, CO2 itself isn't problematic. It's even needed by plants. And every human being produces CO2 as well by exhaling.

Nuclear waste on the other hand... I don't know anyone or anything that needs nuclear waste.

Climate change may kill millions of people...

Fukushima may also kill millions of people as well in the long term. Of course some of those will be cancer related. And who knows why those people got cancer, right?

 

[Jin_7]

What matters is that the alternatives are much worse.

So wind and solar power are worse?
We should just think of better applications for renewables instead of producing more and more nuclear waste and polluting ourselves.

 

[Mr Swine]

So wind and solar power are worse?
We should just think of better applications for renewables instead of producing more and more nuclear waste and polluting ourselves.

Doesn't solar and wind power only work on some countries that are windy/sunny? Also how much space/area is needed to power a whole country?

 

[diamount]

I doubt either of those are feasible alternatives for Japan.

They're an island nation. How isn't it feasible?

 

[SpoonyBard]

So wind and solar power are worse?
We should just think of better applications for renewables instead of producing more and more nuclear waste and polluting ourselves.

Quick answer, sorry, busy.

Water - it would be brilliant, but requires huge dams in most places, and many people are against that. And big dam + earthquake is generally a bad combo.

Wind - in small scale, okay, but expensive. In large scale, would require huge reserves of back-up power plants and load following power plants (usually fossil energy). And large scale wind energy farming can cause unforeseen changes in weather patterns.

Solar - potentially much better than wind, but has some of the same problems - no much control of when power is produced. Maybe in the future it will be more viable.

Nuclear waste is really not a huge problem in comparison to all that waste that is pumped directly to the atmosphere via fossil fuel plants.

 

[Kreunt]

Yeah but where will the water go?

The idea is you freeze the ground in a ring around the facility, so that the ground water (which naturally slowly seeps out into the ocean) never actually passes through the affected area picking up radioactive particles on the way.

 

[Skinpop]

Phew. Just a few hundred miles?

I've read it's safe(in terms of radiation levels) to eat fish caught 100 miles off the coast of fukushima. A "few" hundred miles would be worst case scenario if it escalated.
It's a huge area, but nowhere near global.

 

[Purkake4]

Japan PM seeks overseas help on Fukushima leak

Good, fucking fix it, no more feet dragging.

 

[paperboywriter]

I'm in Seoul right now and was planning a short trip to Tokyo, is that even safe at this point?

 

[Irminsul]

I'm in Seoul right now and was planning a short trip to Tokyo, is that even safe at this point?

Yes it is. You can look up independent radioactivity measurements of Japan on Safecast.org. As you see, there is heightened radioactivity around Fukushima, but Tokyo is a good deal away from that.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Hydro has had more accidents/fatalities than Nuclear. Think dam collapse.

I should have also specified that I meant out of efficient and major sources.

There have been three major accidents in nuclear plants in history, 3 mile island, chernobyl, and fukushima.

Actually, based on the 7-point International Nuclear Event Scale, there have only been two "Major" accidents (Fukushima and Chernobyl). Three Mile Island is only a 5 (Accident With Wider Consequences); there are at least four other accidents that fall under this category. The Kyshtym disaster in the 50's is actually considered worse than Three Mile Island and is the only 6 (Serious Accident) on the INE scale.

 

[zma1013]

Fukushima worker accidentally switches off cooling pumps; backup kicks in

Source

You know, if it weren't so serious, this would be pretty funny.

"The Nuclear Regulation Authority said a worker conducting system inspections mistakenly pushed a button turning off power to some of the systems..."

You know, you'd think it wouldn't be this easy to do something like turn off a bunch of important systems like this by accident. All I'm imagining is that this dude flipped a light switch and turned everything off.

 

[xenist]

I've read it's safe(in terms of radiation levels) to eat fish caught 100 miles off the coast of fukushima. A "few" hundred miles would be worst case scenario if it escalated.
It's a huge area, but nowhere near global.

Thank god then that fish do not move about in the ocean and that currents do not exist.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Is there anywhere we can track the progress of them removing the spent fuel rods from that damaged pool?

Seems like they have to manually remove about 1,300 of these, and if something goes wrong, it's game over.

 

[DC R1D3R]

Yo guys, this is seriously deep and fucked up at the same time. I guess it's because Japan's so far away (or I'm just very slow) but it was only the other day "only eat seafood" dinged in my head!

Japan has always been known for healthy, seafood eating, long living people. Now what?

Thanks Fukushima.

 

[Skinpop]

Thank god then that fish do not move about in the ocean and that currents do not exist.

When cesium is taken up by the body it's stored in the flesh, by the time a fish has swam across the ocean most of the cesium will have been exuded and only a small fraction will remain. Even so, the levels are still not that high to begin with. People really seem to underestimate how much these substances are diluted when they enter the sea.

 

[Skinpop]

Yo guys, this is seriously deep and fucked up at the same time. I guess it's because Japan's so far away (or I'm just very slow) but it was only the other day "only eat seafood" dinged in my head!

Japan has always been known for healthy, seafood eating, long living people. Now what?

Thanks Fukushima.

Easy, they just don't eat fish from the fukushima region.