thelastword
Banned
It Just Works...…..
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NVIDIA's $1200 Flagship GPU vs 22 Year Old Game
- Thread starter thelastword
- Start date
It Just Works...…..
PhoenixTank
Member
Yeah, and running at 4K for more than half the video too. 22 year old game or not... we've known for a while now that just scaling resolution destroys RT performance. I don't see this as a fair assessment.
somerset
Member
Quote:
And no current GPU maker is promising butter smooth frame rates for 4K real-time raytracing.
Utter *dribble*. There are an infinite number of simple 3D scenarios that can trivially be ray traced in 'real time' on even old GPU hardware. Indeed Quake 2 is used by Nvidia precisely because it represents absolutely no current modern day game, and is hence doable.
Ray tracing is an utter sh-t method for any ambitious game - which is why even those CGI cartoons that reneder on massive render farms in *non-real-time* (actually many seconds -> hours per frame) only use ray tracing for special VFX in very limited circumstances (like a lot of obvious high visibility reflections).
*All* that matters to Nvidia is that Quake 2 is a 22 year old game, and hence has very very simple (actually far simpler than the SCG brush based Quake (1) ) geometry. It is an utter humiliation to be boasting about a top-of-the-line 1200 dollar card running a Quake 2 mod.
PS Turing has *zero* ray tacing 'units'- all calculations on Turing are done on exactly the same shader ALUs used for all shader operations- which is why it was trivial for nvidia to add ray extensions to Pascal. What Turing does have is ASIC circuits that better link geometry data variables to the shader machine code system, filling in the variables in the shader algorithm faster.
Ray tracing, as pushed by Nvidia, is a nonsense gimmick for the *very* hard-of-thinking. Ray based algorithms (like line of sight) have *always* existed in 3D games where useful. Speeding up ray calculations is good, but then speeding up any calculation is good.
And no current GPU maker is promising butter smooth frame rates for 4K real-time raytracing.
Utter *dribble*. There are an infinite number of simple 3D scenarios that can trivially be ray traced in 'real time' on even old GPU hardware. Indeed Quake 2 is used by Nvidia precisely because it represents absolutely no current modern day game, and is hence doable.
Ray tracing is an utter sh-t method for any ambitious game - which is why even those CGI cartoons that reneder on massive render farms in *non-real-time* (actually many seconds -> hours per frame) only use ray tracing for special VFX in very limited circumstances (like a lot of obvious high visibility reflections).
*All* that matters to Nvidia is that Quake 2 is a 22 year old game, and hence has very very simple (actually far simpler than the SCG brush based Quake (1) ) geometry. It is an utter humiliation to be boasting about a top-of-the-line 1200 dollar card running a Quake 2 mod.
PS Turing has *zero* ray tacing 'units'- all calculations on Turing are done on exactly the same shader ALUs used for all shader operations- which is why it was trivial for nvidia to add ray extensions to Pascal. What Turing does have is ASIC circuits that better link geometry data variables to the shader machine code system, filling in the variables in the shader algorithm faster.
Ray tracing, as pushed by Nvidia, is a nonsense gimmick for the *very* hard-of-thinking. Ray based algorithms (like line of sight) have *always* existed in 3D games where useful. Speeding up ray calculations is good, but then speeding up any calculation is good.
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TyphoonStruggle
Member
Self_Destructive
Member
And here we have a 22 year old game that no AMD gpu in existence can run 
JordanN
Banned
Source on this?
I've only seen this claim when talking about Pixar movies prior to the first Cars movie (2006).
But after Monster's University (2013), all Pixar movies are fully ray traced.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/14368528/monstersuseaurchin.1419979659.jpg)
Throwing shade: how Pixar changed the way light works for 'Monsters University'
Inside the studio's new Global Illumination system
www.theverge.com
Even Disney's own produced CG movies confirms this. They use the Hyperion Render which is a ray tracer.
Disney's Hyperion Renderer
The official site of Walt Disney Animation Studios.
www.disneyanimation.com
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ipukespiders
Member
What is with youtubers that make a point and then proceed to repeat it 10 times to pad out their videos? I only managed a couple of minutes of that drivel.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Need to hit that 10 minute mark because algorithms and shit.
pawel86ck
Banned
It looks to me like Joker wanted more views at all costs. Q2 RTX is based on old game but it's a remaster at this point, yet Joker talk like if it was still the same old code (even video title is suggesting that). On top of that he compared fully RT game to games with very limited RT usage
.
I think to all technology enthusiasts Q2 RTX remaster is extremely interesting, because seeing fully RT'ed game with around 20fps at 4K is impressive if you consider how bad RT used to run in the old days (1 frame per minute
). At 1440p results are better, around 45 fps, and fully playable (60fps) with GI set to one light bounce.
In battlefield 5 even GPU's without RT cores could run RT effects at 60fps even at 1080p, so people could even say RT cores are not needed, but here you can really see how important RT cores are. Pascal GPU's gets the same framerare (around 50fps) at 480p as 2080ti in 1440p, that's insane difference!
Some people say we are 20 years away before RT will be used at 4K in new games, but I say it will be 5 years at max. Very soon Nv will probably double RT (cores) performance on their 3080 series, and their next generations should improve RT performance even more.
.I think to all technology enthusiasts Q2 RTX remaster is extremely interesting, because seeing fully RT'ed game with around 20fps at 4K is impressive if you consider how bad RT used to run in the old days (1 frame per minute
). At 1440p results are better, around 45 fps, and fully playable (60fps) with GI set to one light bounce.In battlefield 5 even GPU's without RT cores could run RT effects at 60fps even at 1080p, so people could even say RT cores are not needed, but here you can really see how important RT cores are. Pascal GPU's gets the same framerare (around 50fps) at 480p as 2080ti in 1440p, that's insane difference!
Some people say we are 20 years away before RT will be used at 4K in new games, but I say it will be 5 years at max. Very soon Nv will probably double RT (cores) performance on their 3080 series, and their next generations should improve RT performance even more.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
You DO know that this isn’t the same ray tracing that’s on everything else out atm right? That the shot you will get in PS5/Xbox Next are NOTHING compared to this?
This is full real time ray tracing on reflection, GI, Lighting, bounce, the whole deal. It’s never been done before in real time, and most likely won’t be done again for a very long time on this scale.
What you’re seeing is actually damn impressive. Just a few short years ago, ray tracing was still that future dream that would be a 1fps if you’re lucky wish. It wasn’t something you had in real-time.
The sort of stuff you see in metro or the new wolf or game X on PS5 (that will barely even have ray tracing but whatever), it’s nothing compared to what technically going on here.
Also, from what I saw, he’s running it at 4k with resolution scaling at 1/1 and everything on high.......,,. What the hell do you expect to happen? Of course it’s going to run like arse? Truth be told, you can’t run every game out there at a locked 60fps ultra detail at 4k with no drops...
This is full real time ray tracing on reflection, GI, Lighting, bounce, the whole deal. It’s never been done before in real time, and most likely won’t be done again for a very long time on this scale.
What you’re seeing is actually damn impressive. Just a few short years ago, ray tracing was still that future dream that would be a 1fps if you’re lucky wish. It wasn’t something you had in real-time.
The sort of stuff you see in metro or the new wolf or game X on PS5 (that will barely even have ray tracing but whatever), it’s nothing compared to what technically going on here.
Also, from what I saw, he’s running it at 4k with resolution scaling at 1/1 and everything on high.......,,. What the hell do you expect to happen? Of course it’s going to run like arse? Truth be told, you can’t run every game out there at a locked 60fps ultra detail at 4k with no drops...
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Also, just as an aside, myself and a few others worked on all the assets in this video... MANY years ago. They were never intended to be used with a PBR workflow.
And that's why I've started remastering Quake 2, myself. All models, all textures. The right way.
And that's why I've started remastering Quake 2, myself. All models, all textures. The right way.
Hellgardia
Member
Not defending nVidia in any shape or form but if he expected 120 locked fps from a fully ray-traced game running @4k, he has little understanding of what he is seeing.
Ulysses 31
Member
Getting around 30 fps with 2 2080TIs at 4K. >.>
thelastword
Banned
$2400.....? Chump change, you need to go Quad SLI for that 4k 60fps glory...……$4800.00....
metareferential
Member
And awful thread.
What's with these threads lately? "fine wine" and this.
Pre-emptive damage control for when AMD gpus fail to deliver yet again?
Or is it a personal crusade?
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
Downvote the dude. It was just bullshit and close to nothing tech.
This guy is way more nice
Here's more professional video
This guy is way more nice
Ulysses 31
Member
You want the most fps on PC, you gotta be willing to pay up.
Few years ago you could only dream about running such demo in real time for 1200$
Unknown Soldier
Member
YouTube implemented new monetization rules which effectively have a minimum video length of 10 minutes if you want to be able to monetize your content. Thanks, Google!
You must not be familiar with thelastword
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Stuart360
Member
stranno
Member
Well, Crysis still can achieve that cinematic experience without RT. Just launch the Ascension level in Very High settings and enjoy (oc CPU is the main limiting factor there).
IIRC Sega Rally Revo was also a resources eater, i never managed to run it perfectly stable in PC.
IIRC Sega Rally Revo was also a resources eater, i never managed to run it perfectly stable in PC.
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TheAdmiester
Member
Okay then, what's the performance of AMD's flagship card on the same game?
I have nothing against AMD, I'm just using thelastword's own flawed logic
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Insane Metal
Member
And some people are expecting full RT experience on consoles... lol
alabtrosMyster
Banned
The guy in the video is definitely a try hard. However, it's a fair assessment of how the raytracing performance impact gaming, and why most people probably don't use (or care for it) once they saw what it does to performance - people who buy these cards either have a 4k monitor, a high refresh rate monitor or a 4h + high refresh rate monitor... let me assure you they want to use the graphics card to fill the monitor with frames at a decent pace, more than a couple of shiny objects/reflections/etc. that ray-tracing can bring them. At this point it would be nice to have on the next Civilization game, and other turn based games, that's all.
pawel86ck
Banned
I have never read comments like that. Personally I expect developers on PS5 will use RT there and there but not everywhere, and they dont even need to run games at 4K and 60fps, but for example 1440-1800p 30fps (picture quality like that still looks amazing to me on HDTV).
Closer
Member
You want the most fps on PC, you gotta be willing to pay up.
Oof.
We still dreaming about running acceptably. We are just getting there, but this card is not worth this much.
lukilladog
Member
If what somerset says is true, RT performance improvements will be linked to shader performance improvements, so we can start to forget about getting "free" RT effects, at least on modern shader intensive games.
As for this being "impressive", technically it´s impressive, graphically not so much to be honest, raster graphics have reached a point where most players wont see anything special here and some console players might be secretly laughing at this display of the PC power.
SirKicksalot
Member
IT'S STILL NEW TO ME DAMMIT
thelastword
Banned
Yet, I used no logic in this thread and never posted my thoughts on it, but somehow my logic is flawed....I guess you see ghosts often.....Speaking of things not seen...…….
No one said they expect a full RT experience on consoles....Nvidia came along and said some hybrid solution was RT. One tech writer "Tom's hardware" said, just buy it...…..NO matter the cost......In essence...... "can you go on about your life having never experienced raytracing?"...….
The issue this video highlights is this; What's the point of going through this Quake 2 game with raytracing as if anybody is going to sallivate to play a 22 year old game at 1080p that looks this dated, just because it has raytracing.....Does raytracing make this game more beautiful or a looker? No......It's also preposterous that in order to play a dated looking game like Quake with RT, you need as a minimum, a $1200.00 card, OC'd too, to play this at 1080p 60fps.....That's what ridiculous......
I will tell you something...I will not play Battlefield, Shadow of The Tomb Raider or Metro at lower resolutions, framerate and settings, just to enable raytracing......And of course these are modern good looking games without RT anyway...….So, NO, there's no way, I'm playing Quake 2 in 2019 which looks severely dated at 1080p? with or without RT..... and the asking price for this marvel of Quake 2 RT at 1080p is a whopping $1200.00? The fact that people defend this means, that NVIDIA is within their right to keep on asking more from gamers.....$4800.00 to play Quake 2 at 4k 60fps, lets justify this...….Offering a 1080ti called the RTX 2080 with 3Gb's less Vram at a higher markup, just in the name of raytracing, lets justify this......How many RT games are there? Hybrid even....almost a year in, that they have to resort to a demo of a 22 year old game.....
No one cares about that, if I am to play Quake 2 again, I want to play such an old game at 4k: 120-144hz, RT does nothing to make this old game transformative visually, certainly not to play it at 1080p at a $1200 markup...Not even the modern looking games with RT on is transformative against the normal look of said games in anyway tangible or significant.....What's the point then, to use this as marketing? If a 2080ti is struggling, the 2080 plays this at what, the 2070? the 2060? and all these cards had bigger markups in the name of RT......It's simple, if it's not ready for the market, don't try to sell it as the holy grail...…..
I still have no trust in Nvidia when it comes to new technologies and advancements in graphics.....NV's solutions are always resource hogs to suction "easily duped persons" to keep on piling that cash....Soon they will say the 2080ti is garbage and you need a 3080ti Super to run Quake 2 at 4k 60fps at a very low price of $5000...…..Do you know "how many supercomputers it took to do this eons of years ago" and people fall for it, hook line sinker....
Raytracing will come to all classes of GPU's soon enough, but it won't be as resource intensive as NVidia's way…..Other Manufacturers have put much more effort into RT than NV, they just felt it needed more time in the oven to make it viable to all classes......You can raytrace Pong if you want to, it will not give me the incentive to play.......Now, that Crytek Demo, give me a game based on these visuals and I'm willing to play at 1080p 30fps, but there's no way I'm playing Quake 2 at 1080p RT or NOT in 2019.....
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
i disagree
pawel86ck
Banned
For me personally Q2 is one of the greatest fps games and since 1999 (I had my first PC back then) I like to replay it from time to time. It's refreshing to see one of my favorite games in a new light, and 1080p 60fps is enough for me on HDTV (and 1080p 60fps can be achieved on RTX 2070, and especially if you set GI to medium settings instead of high.
There are even walkthroughs on YT already, so people are playing it.
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TheAdmiester
Member
Ain't that the truth
thelastword
Banned
Well clearly, because I gave no thoughts and opinion on the video till that last post...…..So how can you talk about logic, when no analysis or opinion was expressed? See how that works......
In any case, the point is simple....We need RT on modern games and we need RT that does not break the bank and break perf as much.......No one is willing to sacrifice rez and perf in modern titles for RT, farless for old games.....This is no resurgence of Quake 2, we need a new Quake btw...….I loved Quake 4......Bring on Quake 5 with raytracing, but.. who am I kidding, people will still rather play at high rez and super high fps...…...
TyphoonStruggle
Member
I think the period key on your keyboard is broken.
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