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NWR: Wii U's Compared to GameCube, Wii (Spoiler: It's ugly)
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
evilromero
Member
Nintendo's not in the business to please the few.[HP];109135953 said:
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
If we're going by anecdotes, there are also many many gaffers in Nintendo threads (part of those 6 million diehards) that have vocally expressed their desire to never invest early in another Nintendo console, if they dropped the WiiU right now. You absolutely can not take the support of your core for granted, or you end up with stupid quotes from Mattrick who assumed the "core gamers will buy both anyway". Things don't always go your way. It also extends past gamers, and sends a message to third party devs, if they drop support. Making a game for your system takes time. These devs need to know you'll always still by your hardware, so they can develop and release games on your platform. Dropping the WiiU will cause whatever little support Nintendo has from third parties like Ubisoft to completely evaporate.
In what sense is almost double the sales 'not that big'? It's massive. There is also nothing to suggest that the WiiU will sell just shy of 20 million units in the rest of it's life when it has only sold a fraction of that so far.
The Wii U is doing poorly but saying that Bayonetta 2 or X won't release in the US is crazy talk IMO. Those are games with significantly large budgets, they need releases outside of Japan in order to be financially successful.
tilinelson2
Banned
I love how every topic that mention Wii U or Vita sales end flooded with people arguing how awesome the games of these systems are despite the sales...
Nintendo has a big problem in their hands. They have to do something to avoid Wii U losing everything they have won with Wii and even more, but there is no easy answer. The only thing they can't keep doing is to keep this conservative approach that is not working.
Nintendo has a big problem in their hands. They have to do something to avoid Wii U losing everything they have won with Wii and even more, but there is no easy answer. The only thing they can't keep doing is to keep this conservative approach that is not working.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Hell, at this point it might be lucky to hit 10 million.
Captain Europe
Member
I don't think it's that, I think it's about the graphics/power, that has been an issue from the very beginning with the Wii U. The majority of gamers have become graphic whores. As for third party, I am utterly baffled as to why that's such a huge issue, you can get third party games on three other platforms. Turn it the other way around, and Microsoft/Sony have a rather weak first party output compared to Nintendo, but it's all about the third parties for some reason.
theprodigy
Member
....let's not get too crazy now
Freezie KO
Banned
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
This, I also didn't consider. And this is such a depressing fact. Why aren't the core owners buying anything? I know people will say it's the soft library, but even though the titles are few in number, the quality is very high. I would expect diehard fans to at least buy these big titles =/
Killing_Joke
Member
They'll probably keep it around for another year or 2 tops until they have something new. It's going to be a long, long, LONG couple of years for Nintendo.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Is that crazy though? The sales dropped off a cliff and the system will likely be replaced by the end of 2016, do you really think it can double its LTD in two years? Sure it's possible, but I don't see it selling anymore than 13 million maximum.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's about variety. A majority of people don't want to own 3 consoles, so they are going to buy the one that covers the most bases. Everyone has this notion that Xbox360 is the CoD/Halo/Gears box but there were tons of 360 owners that didn't even touch those games. Why? Because maybe theyw ere Madden fans? Or Forza fans? or liked some of the more "indie" stuff like Minecraft or Meat Boy. Halo might be MS' biggest IP, but if you absolutely hate Halo and the rest of MS' first party offerings, there was potentially plenty for you to play to make the 360 a worthy purchase. Be realistic, if someone is not a diehard Mario/Zelda fan, is there honestly any reason for them to buy a Wii U? Is there anything there for them? Would you recommend one to a friend or family member who hated Mario Kart and Mario platformers? Therein lies Nintendo's problem. They continue to preach to an ever shrinking choir. If Nintendo is going to figure a way out of this they need to figure out how to appeal to people who don't care about their established first party games (they did this with Wii Sports, hence the sales phenomenon).
neurosisxeno
Member
Because they aren't made of money and their money is better invested on 3DS titles which are actually very good?
theprodigy
Member
Another 3-3.5 million this year (sales surely must go up slightly at least), 1.5-2 million the year after, then whatever scraps after that leads to 12-13 million.
family_guy
Member
PS3 and 360 are still doing pretty well in hardware sales and still are supported so power isn't everything. Wii U doesn't fulfill a mass market need. Want a powerful console? Go PS4? Want an inexpensive console with a large library of cheap games that is also a great media device? Get a PS3. What's the Wii U's selling point?
neurosisxeno
Member
That is a major problem for Nintendo. They have no third party support so if you don't like Mario and Zelda there is nothing for you. Yes there are alternatives like W101 and Pikmin, but those titles are pretty niche. What about people who like Forza\GT? Or Sports games? Or story-driven games like TLoU and Heavy Rain? Let's not even look at the games, what about people who want a single media device in their living rooms, to play DVD's, Blu-Ray's, Netflix, and some games here and there? The Wii U has very little to offer them compared to the PS3/4 and Xbox One.
evilromero
Member
Entirely subjective of course. For me the system lacks variety and games with depth. 3D World felt so basic and superficial. It was loaded with lots of attractive colorful doodads but at the end of the journey I didn't feel like going back and playing anymore. It just didn't offer a substantial experience for me. Again, that's me. And I'm a Wii U owner. Based on my experience I wouldn't recommend it.
I'm not a business analyst, so I won't get into reasons why the Wii U is doing poorly sales-wise, and I don't much care; I enjoy the console, I'll continue to enjoy it and I know that Nintendo -- a creator of things I enjoy -- isn't even close to being in real financial trouble. So the bad sales and (creepily virulent) negative image don't affect me as a consumer. Moreover, though I'm a follower of the company, I don't mind admitting Nintendo's shortcomings.
But I have to know: by what metric does the console have "no games?" Do you folks mean, "it has no games compared to consoles that have been out for eight years? You surely don't mean it has no games in comparison to the lineups of the Wii U's current-gen contemporaries, right? I would hope you mean "it has no games that appeal to me." If so, it would make a lot more sense to say that.
I mean, fuck's sake, I sometimes wonder exactly how many games is enough games for GAF.
But I have to know: by what metric does the console have "no games?" Do you folks mean, "it has no games compared to consoles that have been out for eight years? You surely don't mean it has no games in comparison to the lineups of the Wii U's current-gen contemporaries, right? I would hope you mean "it has no games that appeal to me." If so, it would make a lot more sense to say that.
I mean, fuck's sake, I sometimes wonder exactly how many games is enough games for GAF.
outunderthestars
Banned
It really is a major problem for them. There are very few people for whom a WiiU could work as their only gaming system. I don't see that changing any time soon though.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I honestly expect 1-2 million this year and 500k-1 million next year. Unless they reveal something massive I see the Wii U continuing its downward spiral.
outunderthestars
Banned
Personally I so disliked using the hardware, and the gamepad even more so, that I ended up returning my WiiU. It is simply too clunky and combersome. Every time I would sit down to play I ended up playing a different system.
This is insightful and I agree completely. Sports games are incredibly important for western mass appeal and Nintendo offers nothing here that doesn't appeal to you if you don't already like Mario. I grew up with Mario around, so I like him, but it's not a stretch to see why someone could care less about that IP. Nintendo even has extremely sour relations with the only company allowed to make sports games which is not helping the situation at all.
I think EA's monopoly on important sports IPs could be killing off its competitors slowly but surely(like Sega), and it's not very good for the industry as a whole (when judged by what I care about: the variety of games available to a player).
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Well I have a similar opinion of the gamepad, which is also why I can't seem to get into handheld gaming no matter how hard I try. But I was simply going to remedy that by buying a pro controller on day 1, when I get my Wii U. Is that no doable for every title?
theprodigy
Member
This seems unfounded, it's "only" down about 25% right now in Japan (should get canceled out later with MK8/SSB4) and flat in the US (and even up YoY in France *gasp*).
I love my WiiU, my library is made of 6 absolute AAA games (which I don't think will be matched for at least 2 years on the One/Ps4), I love old Nintendo do games in the VC and the gamepad is comfortable to use.
Other than that, the Os is simple and functional and everything just works.
The problem is with the main stream gamers not recognizing Nintendo as a competent console for 3rd party titles. I don't think it needs them to survive, but most do. Unfortunately, it's a pretty much irreversible trend.
There could be good 3rd party titles, it's not only a problem of weaker than average hardware. It's the lack of marketing, the lack of online focus, Nintendo just doesn't seem to care anymore. They know people buy it only for the 1st party titles and they just gave it up.
Unfortunately Nintendo games just don't hold that magical place in their hearts anymore. I mean cmon, we have two of the best Mario games ever, one of the best Donkey Kong games ever, one of the best Zelda games ever all available right now for the system... If that doesn't make a difference, what else will?
If Nintendo do can pull 5 or 6 extra AAA titles in 2015, then they might have a chance to turn this around. But that would mean having Zelda, Animal Crossing, FZero, Pokémon, maybe another Mario, besides Mario Kart and Smash, all ready in the next 18 months.
I don't think it's doable.
Other than that, the Os is simple and functional and everything just works.
The problem is with the main stream gamers not recognizing Nintendo as a competent console for 3rd party titles. I don't think it needs them to survive, but most do. Unfortunately, it's a pretty much irreversible trend.
There could be good 3rd party titles, it's not only a problem of weaker than average hardware. It's the lack of marketing, the lack of online focus, Nintendo just doesn't seem to care anymore. They know people buy it only for the 1st party titles and they just gave it up.
Unfortunately Nintendo games just don't hold that magical place in their hearts anymore. I mean cmon, we have two of the best Mario games ever, one of the best Donkey Kong games ever, one of the best Zelda games ever all available right now for the system... If that doesn't make a difference, what else will?
If Nintendo do can pull 5 or 6 extra AAA titles in 2015, then they might have a chance to turn this around. But that would mean having Zelda, Animal Crossing, FZero, Pokémon, maybe another Mario, besides Mario Kart and Smash, all ready in the next 18 months.
I don't think it's doable.
I really wonder what Nintendo is going to do now. Do they even still have clout in the console marketplace? Its been almost a decade since they released a non-wii system. Regardless, I'm curious as to whether Nintendo's next system will even have early adopters. The Wii U conversation is more toxic than any console dialogue I've ever seen. I can't imagine someone dropping cash for another Nintendo machine at launch, especially if they drop Wii U support early.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Sales so far this year are moderately higher than last years. In NA at least. I expect this year to be WiiU's high.
The Mario Kart bundle is infinitely more appealing than anything else they've had, so with that they should be able to match last year at least. Smash will generate some interest and at least mean some advertising for it over the holidays as well.
Next year it could completely collapse though, Zelda or no Zelda.
They salvaged the GC with price-cuts, they don't have that wiggle room with Wii U as it would generate more losses. I imagine they are sitting on quite a lot of stock.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I thought they were up in March only?
theprodigy
Member
Wii U January-March 2013: 191k
Wii U January-March 2014: 201k
It's up, barely ("moderately" is a bit of a stretch).
Man it's really sad to see their current situation
good that I'm not Iwata
Depressing numbers for Wii U indeed... And doesn't seem Nintendo is doing anything drastic to change things up for the console other than release Mario Kart 8. That game will create a decent momentum for the console, that's for sure, but if Nintendo keeps doing it's thing of release 1 worthy retail game every 4 months then it's gonna kill all that momentum they got with MK8 that not even Smash is gonna recover considering it's released until Winter or early 2015... Either way, at least I'm enjoying Wii U so much and I play it every single day.
blast processed
Member
I've had my WiiU since launch, have 14 games for the system and enjoy them all. Websites need to stop posting click bait articles like this, it doesn't help the cause, especially a Nintendo fan site.
Sales dropped off a cliff? They were already pretty damn low. It will be up YoY this year. I bet on it. 13 million is probably about where I'd put it too unless Smash, Kart and Sonic really take off. 15 Million seems to be the highest. All still disasterous numbers, mind you.
I thought it was going to be something like 15m vs 6m lol
electroshockwave
Member
If you consider that January 2013 was lowered because of all the holiday refunds then I think they've sold even less in the first quarter than last year.
theprodigy
Member
yeah that's NPD data, and actually I think 2013 is 14 weeks while 2014 is 13 weeks, so weekly averages:
2013: 191k/14=13.64k/week
2014: 201k/13=15.46k/week
even then, that's only a 13.33% increase in the weekly average
edit: actually the post above makes a decent point, even a relatively negligible amount of December 2012 returns (~10k?) makes these figures worse
Aquamarine
Member
We're already seeing indications of YoY gains in NPD sales:
Jan. 2013
57K (11K per week)
Feb. 2013
66K (17K per week)
Mar. 2013
68K (14K per week)
Jan. 2014
49K (12K per week)
Feb. 2014
82K (21K per week)
Mar. 2014
70K (14K per week)
It's not much, but we have yet to have a month where we see a YoY decline when you adjust for weekly sales.
This is a strong indication that we'll see YoY gains throughout the year, especially with Mario Kart 8 elevating the platform in May / June.
I will, it does not follow their five year cycle.
Interesting, thanks. It's hard to say this is a positive trend, if anything Wii U sales can be categorized as remarkably, consistently terrible.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I think it's more shocking because the Gamecube barely sold over 20 million, and was even considered a failure by Nintendo's standards (despite how awesome people thought it was). So to see another console of theirs selling only a fraction of their last failure is pretty damning.
They won't.
I won't be surprised when the QoL platform turns out to be the Wii U hardware minus the GamePad though. And that's next year.
That's how they will artificially try and extend the life and salvage the R&D costs. Same as they repackaged the GC with the Wii. Trying to widen their appeal and keeping games as a part of it, just not the focus.
evilromero
Member
The system will hardly survive year two, let alone five.
It's quite the testament that Nintendo couldn't even capture half of the momentum from the Wii's success. And to everyone blaming mainstream gamers for Nintendo's misfortune- come on. There is no cause. It's a business. And the Wii U is clearly their most expensive failure to date.
Yes.
I remember when Iwata made clear during the financial result briefing that they will push WiiU more, and some Gaffers called that crazy.
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