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NY outlaws most Airbnb listings, imposes steep fines on hosts
- Thread starter NYCmetsfan
- Start date
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We're seeing similar things happen in Seattle. People are watching their buildings/condos get bought, and rent increasing sometimes by 100-200% in the most extreme cases. There's no laws to prevent it, so property owners can do whatever they want so long as they give you sufficient notice.
The law is that you can't rent out your apartment for less than 30 days unless you're also going to be there. It has nothing to do with single family homes, those are covered under a different law. How is that blunt? If I want to rent out my place while I'm there then it's legal, if I want to rent it out while I'm out of town for the weekend then it's illegal. It's not complicated at all.
The issue is AirBNB allows people to put up illegal listings and every time the City and State tell them to stop AirBNB says go spit.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They do allow single rooms. As long as the owner is there
SciencePilot
Member
Yeah I hope they find some middle ground here. Airbnb offers a nice service. I stayed in an Airbnb once when I visited Paris and it was way better than a hotel. Hotels are really terrible. Hopefully they can find some compromise to fix the problems of Airbnb without outright banning it.
There is a middle ground, the City and State were more than willing to allow for a middle ground, the law was written with a middle ground in mind, the issue is AirBNB doesn't give a fuck about a middle ground.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
These are businesses so wouldn't you need some form of license to operate these anyway?
Also, AirBNB is great in that it has allowed many people to travel for cheap. Hotels are fucking expensive.
Also, AirBNB is great in that it has allowed many people to travel for cheap. Hotels are fucking expensive.
Middle ground loses them alot of money. Hence their 'we realize this is illegal but we won't help and we will keep making money off of the illegal hotels until they get shutdown' stance
Which is why the state is now doing this and the city upped the budget on it's illegal hotels taskforce last year.
AirBNB isn't some innocent actor in all of this.
hydrophilic attack
Member
That's what a compromise is. No one gets everything they want.
There's also a long history of landlords running illegal hotels in NYC, the laws were put in place to fight that history.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Let's be real - this got signed because the hotels didn't want to get Uber'd.
Uber was never an illegal taxi in NYC. They operated exactly as any other Black Card fleet in NYC, dispatch bases and all.
AirBnB flat out enabled breaking the law.
If that makes you feel better about it, then sure. You can ignore the fact that AirBNB has been blatantly breaking NY law for the better part of a decade and every time the City and State tried to make a compromise they got told to go fuck themselves by AirBNB.
AirBNB could have easily prevented this from happening by not allowing illegal rentals on their site. The law on this issue is clear and easily understood. It wouldn't have taken them much effort to abide by it.
Sure if you mean getting Uber'd is blatantly ignoring residential vs commerical zoning and helping people put illegal hotels in residential areas.
perfectchaos007
Member
I'm fine with Airbnb and Uber operating unregulated because it gives customers a choice. If you want a regulated but more expensive stay, there are "real" hotels you can stay at. But, if you want to take your chances and essentially pay to stay at some strangers crib, you should be allowed to make that choice at your own risk. Theres advantages to both and honestly even though I'm a cheapskate I probably would still pay more to stay at a trusted hotel. I have stayed at an airbnb though and fortunately had no issues on that occasion but I know its riskier and if something went wrong I may be SOL due to no regulation and Im okay with that.
Yeah. I know landlords doing the same, from their point of view, it makes little sense not to.
What about the people in the building that are being inconvenienced? Your argument makes 0 mention of them. Should they go fuck themselves?
That's good. The host and the interaction with your "built-in tour guide" is what makes the experience to me. It's so much more personal than a hotel. There's only been one place I stayed using AirBnB where it was obvious that the whole building was being rented out for tourists and that was my worst experience by far and now I ignore those types of listings. Everything else has been single rooms while sharing common spaces with the host or in a little bungalow or side house on the host's property with them being home.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Does this include if one owns (not rents) a condo that's part of a multi-condo building? Because that seems like something the condo association determines.
The difference between the two is that Uber lowers barrier to entry for entering the taxi market. AirBnB raises it for renters/homeowners.
No. Uber has net positive effects for consumers. AirBnB, negative ones.
And yes, home buyers are way more important than people visiting for a weekend.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
I agree with AirBnb's net negative effect. A better law would have limited the number of days per year that a room can be rented, which caps income (and thus property rental values) while allowing owners some freedom.
I am close with someone who makes a substantial income from Manhattan AirBnb'ing. At the outset, he structured his operations to abide by the 2010 law (he has at least one person on the lease who lives there permanently, which allows him to retain the flexibility of allowing <30 day stays). Personally, I agree with locals who don't like it.
The problem is that AirBnB is doing absolutely nothing about the users operating illegally, which they have full awareness of.
If they aren't going to take any steps in curbing illegal use, then I don't see the problem with shutting them down until they do.
And I say that as someone that has enjoyed using it when travelling
If they aren't going to take any steps in curbing illegal use, then I don't see the problem with shutting them down until they do.
And I say that as someone that has enjoyed using it when travelling
Airbnb is one of the direct reasons rent in my area of Brooklyn cracked 2k for a run down railroad 2 bedroom apartment, let alone a proper 1-2 bedroom place. During the summer tons of people would funnel in from other states to spent the summer months and happily drove up the costs of living. Hope they catch everyone one of them. If people are going to complain about hotel prices they're welcome to try and find an affordable place to live here year round and see how much they like it.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
It's lucrative because the formal hotel industry has failed to adapt and deliver a fairly valued product to its customers in spite of new market conditions. Lower prices or improve your product.
And still. AirBnb ... Great for travelers, horrible for locals.
By breaking laws to do it. How nice to be able to ignore laws to tap into a new market .
It costs a lot of money to operate a properly insured and licensed hotel or livery service. DIY Services like Airbnb and Über are great for the consumer because of it, however they are also unfair to actual legit businesses that have to pay more taxes, fees, and insurance. Eventually, all this will catch up to them. We can't have "nice things" forever. Once the corporations discover they can make more money using these services it's all over. Eventually the tax law catches up. You can't and shouldn't expect to run a business based on what's basically a regulation loophole.
And I notice, like other posters, you make no mention of the effects on local residents.
People trying to buy homes are consumers too.
No consumers are hurt by Uber because there's only one market being affected.
Transportation is also not a limited resource like housing is, which is even more reason why the Uber comparison doesn't work.
Of course it's bad for local residents!! I wasn't trying to imply it wasn't. I was basically saying it's bad for local businesses also.
All of my friends laugh at me when I tell them Über isn't safe and is bad for the local economy.
ClosingADoor
Member
You have things to protect yourself against this with home owners associations and such that can ban it in the building. But there are also a lot of places without those where you still have neighbors, so how to deal with that then. The problem is there is no central place to manage this stuff. If you don't have a home owners association, the owner of the home won't do anything and the government can't find them for lack of proof, but you still have problems, what to do. Airbnb won't do anything, you can't even contact them for things like this!
If there are reasonable laws and Airbnb does not help to enforce those (which I think is their responsibility, because they offer people this platform where they don't look after local regulations and don't cooperate with local government to do so) then you need to go after Airbnb and in extension also the people who have good intentions and do not cause trouble. That is on Airbnb, not the government at that point. They can't just allow this to continue.
If they would just follow the local regulation and make sure the people putting up their homes for rental are actually living there and renting out a few weeks a year, this all wouldn't be a problem. But their profits will plummet.
Uber over here uses regular taxi's now. They banned Uberpop, but kept UberX. Pretty good service and you just get a taxi picking you up through the app and charging through there. I don't see much problem with that. The Uberpop stuff with just letting anyone drive without a taxi license is problematic I think.
It's bad for "businesses". It's very good for workers able to get jobs that they previously did not have access to.
Let's hope you never have to stay anywhere and cannot afford the jacked up hotel prices... AirBnB has its issues, but it has been a net positive. Instead you want more regulation and entrenched and corrupt industries from moving forward. I guarantee you it is less about affordable housing in New York and more about the hotel industry used to charging tourists and visitors a shit ton of money for a few nights. Just crazy.
Had to stay 3 days in whistler a few months ago. Found an actual house for maybe 1/4th the cost of a hotel room/suite with more rooms, bathrooms, etc. I would use AirBnB before anything else nowadays. Check and see what is there.
If you ignore the effects on the local residents then it's a net positive.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
60 days a year is not reasonable. And who says it is bad for local residents? Airbnb guests are vetted much better than hotel guests. It is a system based on ratings that polices itself in some way, like Uber.
It is great for local businesses because it brings tourism to areas that might not otherwise have it.
It is great for people because it allows them an opportunity to supplement their income, legally, income which they pay taxes on.
It is great for people because it allows those to travel that might not otherwise have a budget to do so.
I am talking about the intended scenario for Airbnb, people renting out a room in a house/apt that they are living in. Not those that rent out whole buildings en masse and treat it like a hotel service.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This kinda stuff is what they sell airbnb as and I'd great. They're not a 10 billion dollar company with just these listings and try know that.
I'd welcome these kind of things. I have friends over at my places all the time. Font have a problem with someone monetizing that if their home.
This is great. ABB had been making most of its money from operating illegally (look it up) but act like they're geniuses beating out the stagnant hotel industry because they are in silicon valley and have vc backing.
The reality is there just weren't enough regulators or framework to shut down their illegal operators.
The reality is there just weren't enough regulators or framework to shut down their illegal operators.
Nah. You haven't experience the wrath of a high income property owner I'm guessing.
They can be quite persuasive to city halls.
Boogie9IGN
Member
While I understand the need to do this, I can definitely say the AirBnB my gf and I stayed at during our week in NYC this summer was a large part of why we loved the city so much (some high-rise studio in Wall St). Anything remotely resembling the $200ish a night we paid for it would have been at least double from what we searched, and that would've just killed our budget.
Though again, as a Bay Area resident, I understand and support the need to do stuff like this
Though again, as a Bay Area resident, I understand and support the need to do stuff like this
Escape Goat
Member
That just makes Airbnb smart.
Interesting, Adam Ruins Everything had a week or two ago an episode about housing and AirBnB renting was part of the episode regarding illegal "hotel" chains and other criminal activity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eTLdQ1cQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eTLdQ1cQc
SuperBanana
Banned
Me and my friends went to NYC and got an amazing airbnb in East Village for about $1000 cheaper than even a basic 3 star hotel. That's a shame it was banned.
Jesus, how many friends?
Monocle
Member
Fight this with accuracy?
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