SuperBanana
Banned
There were 5 of us staying for a 8 days. We would have needed at least 2 rooms had we stayed at a hotel.
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NY outlaws most Airbnb listings, imposes steep fines on hosts
- Thread starter NYCmetsfan
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There were 5 of us staying for a 8 days. We would have needed at least 2 rooms had we stayed at a hotel.
They should, but they won't. So naturally the hammer comes down. I have no sympathy for them, they had all this time to sort their shit out and they refused.
Damn.
I'm sure there are people who really needed Airbnb listings to make ends meet in this city (I personally know one or two) and I'm sorry that their residential costs will be even more onerous because the city and state just can't make good policy on this.
But I'm still in favor. I mean, Airbnb in New York City has been a vehicle for a lot of blatant abuse like: affordable housing lottery winners posting Airbnb offers for $500 a night. Airbnb is by no means the cause of New York City's housing woes, but it did exacerbate the problem: people who rented out their apartments for at least three months out of the year might have taken as much as 10 percent of rental units out of the market according to a not-for-profit report. Skeevy owners and even realty companies have been using Airbnb to basically run de facto hotels that cost as much as the real thing, taking housing opportunities away from residents.
And it isn't like Airbnb played nice with New York City or State, either. The state attorney general had to fight for months to get data from Airbnb to see who was violating housing laws in 2014. What did they think was going to happen?
But I'm still in favor. I mean, Airbnb in New York City has been a vehicle for a lot of blatant abuse like: affordable housing lottery winners posting Airbnb offers for $500 a night. Airbnb is by no means the cause of New York City's housing woes, but it did exacerbate the problem: people who rented out their apartments for at least three months out of the year might have taken as much as 10 percent of rental units out of the market according to a not-for-profit report. Skeevy owners and even realty companies have been using Airbnb to basically run de facto hotels that cost as much as the real thing, taking housing opportunities away from residents.
And it isn't like Airbnb played nice with New York City or State, either. The state attorney general had to fight for months to get data from Airbnb to see who was violating housing laws in 2014. What did they think was going to happen?
eyeball_kid
Member
Great news. I hope they do this in Los Angeles as well. In housing-scarce markets, cities should be prioritizing and protecting access for residents of those cities, not tourists.
Because Maybe I can rent an apartment in this godforsaken city for what it's actually worth.
High housing prices can have more than one cause. Although yes, tackling the other causes first would have made Airbnb less of a problem, they're still contributing and easier to deal with. Residents who want to "preserve historic neighborhoods" are the big problem as we know, but those folks vote, unfortunately.
The previous (and still existing law) made it illegal. If you don't like the law, change the law.
My awesome Airbnb experiences have been those where the host was present.
My shitty Airbnb experiences have been where the host was not present, multiple rooms were rented out to separate people and we were told to go in a side door so building management wouldn't be made aware we were staying there.
SKETCH AS HELL.
You don't always have to stay at a W.
It's pretty fair. It's been like that for awhile. If you're there, cool.
If Airbnb actually worked with cities, landlords and HOAs from the start to prevent illegal and prohibited uses (such as rent controlled tenants profiting by charging market rate for a rent controlled place) it would have a much different image than it does today.
When Airbnb works as intended it's great. You meet a local and get a cheap place to stay.
When Airbnb is just an investor flipping rooms, it feels like you've been scammed.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
In the town I was working in today probably half the houses and well over half the condos within two streets of the west end of town are AirBnBs. Basically all of the apartments are, too. It's disgusting.
elrechazado
Banned
Got to protect big hotel.
Pandora012
Member
I know people complain about expensive hotels in NYC, but it seems like people are only looking in Manhattan. I mean try an outer borough, or even stay in New Jersey. Depending on where you are you can get to Manhattan in about 20 min.
Is that really what you took away from this?...
The cabs are terrible in Albany
How can they tell which places have the host living there?
elrechazado
Banned
Yes? The primary beneficiary is the hotel industry's now government enforced monopoly on temporary lodging.did you really think that housing will become more affordable?
The government already had an enforced zoning monopoly, prohibiting such activities if the location was not zoned for such activity. The people renting them out illegally were already doing it illegally. This law just makes it illegal to act as an intermediary for illegal activity.
The hotel industry having a monopoly on being hotels is an oxymoron. This is not like an enforced taxi medallion monopoly, these people are not restricted from opening a hotel if they want to engage in hotel activity. It isn't like medallions where they restrict the total number, and it isn't the case of a single hotel company monopolizing the market.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Those zoning laws are the past and crowd-shared lodging is the future. Standing in the way of the future is stupid.
andythinkpad
Member
I hope Airbnb burn another 100 million to fight NYS in court.
And loses.
And loses.
elrechazado
Banned
I'm not sure how restating a tautology contradicts anything I said.
Considering that your entire point was a tautology?
Hotels having a government mandated hotel monopoly?
I don't get your point. Yes, companies in the hotel industry are competing in the hotel industry.
The Airbnb people were running hotels as well. They just weren't legally run.
Because the argument was that banning an already illegal practice is protecting 'big hotels'
i dont call people running illegal hotels in the hotel business.
Anymore you dont call meth labs being a part of the phara industry.
Please re-read. I clearly explained how oxymoronic it is to claim an industry has a monopoly on its own activity. This is like saying a law prohibiting gas stations in residentially zoned land (and preventing GasBuddy from advertising such illegal gas stations) is giving gas stations a government-enforced monopoly on gas stations.
elrechazado
Banned
No, the point was that enforcement of the original ban is what is defacto benefiting large hotel chains, which is the argument I was making. Saying hotels still get to be hotels in the hotel business is completely irrelevant to that point.
Oh yeah, there's no protecting 'big hotels' here. Those establishments were not hurting for clients because of Airbnb.
Anyway, I'm sorry that people are paying more for their potential trip to New York. But there's a housing shortage and converting existing apartments to hotels isn't the solution.
You think these laws only exist because of airbnb? You believe that shady landlords haven't tried to make illegal hotels out of residents before Airbnb?
How naive.
elrechazado
Banned
No, many zoning and licensing schemes are deeply influenced by close ties to industries or insider groups that directly benefit. This seems incredibly obvious, so I'm not sure what you are attempting to argue.
You think that enforcement of these laws is only altruistic and in this or other cases is for the general welfare?
How naive.
So zoning laws to stop makeshift and unregulated hotels in residential areas is because of lobbying from 'big hotels'?
laughable. And now we are beyond naive, we have hit conspiracy theory mode.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Yes.
Yes. Have you ever compared what an apartment costs per month to what a much smaller nearby hotel room costs per night?
If you buy apartments in places with lots of incoming travelers, you can easily make many times market-rent a month per apartment.
Without all the hangups that come from long term tenants: constant maintenance and tenant laws.
D.Lo
Member
Airbnb was supposed to be a way to help pay off your holiday house, effectively a timesharing type situation. That's how it presents itself.
But I've stayed in them all over the world now, and 99% are professional landlords. I really like using airbnb, as you get to be in a real apartment like a local, but they are definitely skirting the law and bad for locals.
But I've stayed in them all over the world now, and 99% are professional landlords. I really like using airbnb, as you get to be in a real apartment like a local, but they are definitely skirting the law and bad for locals.
RageWaffles
Member
Yeah. Uber and Lyft aren't allowed to operate outside of the NYC area. Here in Buffalo, Uber will occasionally hold promos to gain public support—like delivering free ice cream or free copies of video games—but that's all they are allowed to do.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
There's a lot of BS that comes with short term rentals. It's not the easiest money, but it is very profitable if managed competently.
The law mandating that the host be present for sub-30 day stays makes sense. I don't think AirBnb has a leg to stand on if they're going to fight that. The service is just too negative an experience for non-participating locals.
Hotel rooms randomly embedded in non-commercial residential space is unfair to everyone else in the vicinity.
The law mandating that the host be present for sub-30 day stays makes sense. I don't think AirBnb has a leg to stand on if they're going to fight that. The service is just too negative an experience for non-participating locals.
Hotel rooms randomly embedded in non-commercial residential space is unfair to everyone else in the vicinity.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Maintainence and cleaning would be more expensive in the case of temporary lodgers I would think.
More cleanup, less legally mandated fixes.
Not fixing X won't mean lawsuits because some places make the landlord legally responsible. You just get a bad rating.
With the much faster renevue intake vs actual rentals. You can see why so many landlords would jump at the chance.
The only thing is to not get caught.
AirBnB spends more lobbying against these types of rules than the hotel industry spends lobbying for these rules:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/airbnb-san-francisco-proposition-f_us_56366676e4b0c66bae5cc3b6
GameAddict411
Member
There is a difference between a person who wants to make a buck or two on an empty room in his or her house from time to time, but whole new corporations cropping to take advantage of this, and basically start renting units for cheap but charge hotel level of prices without the regulation or taxes that real hotels have to go through. It's not only unfair for legitimate hotels, it actually people affects housing availability in the city.
I think Airbnb is a great idea, but there should be regulations that would prevent this sort of abuse.
I think Airbnb is a great idea, but there should be regulations that would prevent this sort of abuse.
I've posted about Airbnb before where I feel as though I made a point of looking at this from the tourist and local (participant and non-participant) perspectives.
That said, I have a negative opinion of hotels as being overpriced and bundling things I don't need in a place to stay. As much as I agree that Airbnb acting in bad faith regarding local laws is a real problem, hotels pretending like they can just keep phoning it in despite changing consumer preferences is similarly short-sighted.
That said, I have a negative opinion of hotels as being overpriced and bundling things I don't need in a place to stay. As much as I agree that Airbnb acting in bad faith regarding local laws is a real problem, hotels pretending like they can just keep phoning it in despite changing consumer preferences is similarly short-sighted.
andythinkpad
Member
First of all, this is America, the business always have large influence compare to other countries.
Secondly, why shouldn't the hotels have more influence than airbnb? They are the law abiding local business that pay proper commercial taxes and dues.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking. Hotels have to deal with regulations, vacancies, taxes, and everything else that comes with doing things legally. Unlike taxi companies, hotels do seem to be sufficiently self-policed by a user-driven feedback system (Yelp, TripAdvisor, etc).
Given the same pricing, I'd rather take an Uber than a tradition cab. That's 10 out of 10 times. Other than savings, I'm not sure the same can be said for AirBnb vs. a properly managed hotel. I think I'd prefer the consistency of a professionally designed and executed user experience over the hit or miss nature of a "sharing economy" living space.
I was opining on the phenomenon in the thread. But to answer your second question incumbent power and money isn't a position of moral strength.
No, but the argument that AirBNB is helping to contribute to rising rent for people living in cities is.
andythinkpad
Member
Did another argue in the moral angle? The legally operated hotels and motels have legal strength not moral strength.
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