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[OldJadedGamer]

You're funny, Sony can reestablish dominance if MS screws up, which very well could happen. Free online, blu-ray, and a year head start could seal Sony as the winner next gen. MS still has the pay for online perspective and with people becoming savvy they may start to see how much of a rip off live is. If Sony can manage to make their online more robust and include everything that MS has for free next gen I could easily see them overtaking MS on that alone. They got me this gen with it, who knows how many they can get next gen. Not to mention Sony still has way more first party devs then microsoft has. This is all speculation of course, but saying that Sony will never reestablish dominance is very ignorant. Same thing was said about Apple not even 14 years ago and now look where they are....

Apple still has a tiny market share... of personal computers. That is what people said 14 years ago and it still holds true.

You really think with Sony hurting they can afford to match MS online features for free next gen? XBL being the go-to for online play this gen shows paying isn't a barrier.

What you fail to think about is that MS has people locked into their gamertags now. Their cheevos and most important... their friends list online. That will be a hook to carry people over next gen. Next gen won't just be about games, it will be about services.

Sony had a fun ride at the top for two gens but there is way too much quality competition now. As for having more first party devs, sales show that they really don't matter as much as third party games.

 

[GopherD]

Also they need to hurry the fuck up with Music and Video unlimited. Especially Music unlimited now that they have so many artists under their wings and licensing problems are thus non existent.

Music unlimited on the vita is absolutely brilliant.

 

[jett]

So much doomspeak about Sony lately, but things are truly looking seriously grim for them. They don't have anything that's working out for them, besides their insurance branch(lololol). Kaz Hirai is not a visionary, I don't see him steering Sony to a brighter future.

 

[Jonnyram]

So much doomspeak about Sony lately, but things are truly looking seriously grim for them. They don't have anything that's working out for them, besides their insurance branch(lololol). Kaz Hirai is not a visionary, I don't see him steering Sony to a brighter future.

Kaz Hirai is not a visionary, but it's not a time for visionaries right now. They need to find stability before working on exciting new things. Most businesses are in the same state.

 

[njean777]

Apple still has a tiny market share... of personal computers. That is what people said 14 years ago and it still holds true.

You really think with Sony hurting they can afford to match MS online features for free next gen? XBL being the go-to for online play this gen shows paying isn't a barrier.

What you fail to think about is that MS has people locked into their gamertags now. Their cheevos and most important... their friends list online. That will be a hook to carry people over next gen. Next gen won't just be about games, it will be about services.

Sony had a fun ride at the top for two gens but there is way too much quality competition now. As for having more first party devs, sales show that they really don't matter as much as third party games.

Sony still has their gaming division, your point? It is profitable right now, unlike apple was at the time.

The average person does not care about achievements, only the hardcore do. Not once have I ever seen somebody care for achievements other then this forum and the journalists, all my regular friends and people I know could give a shit less (I am assuming the public feels the same, not stating it as fact). Your average consumer does care about money though. Now if Sony comes out first why couldn't they build a ps3 friend list the same way they did with the xbox, its no different. Sony has the services Xbox has, they have most of what xbox has sans twitter and zune which both are not important in the least bit. Also they are missing Cross game chat/invites. As for the friends Sony just needs to implement connect with Facebook when signing up for online and boom there is your friends list. Not very hard. People do it all the time with new social networks, why would it be so different for a gaming console?

And yes I do believe they will not charge for online next gen, if they do then it becomes a whole different story.

 

[evilromero]

It's funny because I think their branding and image is what really propelled them through their heyday in the 90s. It was the perfect blend of high tech sheen and functionality. But now it's like consumers have turned to companies that mask "techiness" in favor of lifestyle, something Sony has had difficult cultivating.

 

[alphaNoid]

Apple still has a tiny market share... of personal computers. That is what people said 14 years ago and it still holds true.

You really think with Sony hurting they can afford to match MS online features for free next gen? XBL being the go-to for online play this gen shows paying isn't a barrier.

What you fail to think about is that MS has people locked into their gamertags now. Their cheevos and most important... their friends list online. That will be a hook to carry people over next gen. Next gen won't just be about games, it will be about services.

Sony had a fun ride at the top for two gens but there is way too much quality competition now. As for having more first party devs, sales show that they really don't matter as much as third party games.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Plus there is this odd illusion where people think that Sony is supporting PSN in its current state for free or something. With great infrastructure and software comes great cost, and continued support costs. When we are discussing a company who is in the fight for its life, its not smart business to dig yourself in the hole and give your goods away for free. Sony cannot afford to play the Free game against MS any longer. They need that Live-like income. PSN+ was a start, but I suspect they'll do whatever they can with the PS4 and PSN to make money from the service.

Sony see's the $250 million MS makes a year with just Live subscriptions and wants a piece of that pie. People, don't kid yourself and pretend Sony is your friend and is offering the service because they love your business. They are offering it for free as a marketable item against MS and also because the service in itself isn't as robust and mature as Live is, making it really not worth paying for. And Sony knows it. But this is just a clear example of Sony decisions gone wrong. Spend tens of millions building PSN, then continue bleeding money from the service. Not healthy.

Sony would do anything possible to get away with charging for PSN online play, people need to understand that. The question is, can they continue to grown the service and be in the red going forward? What is Sony going to do going forward to fix their business model for the PS4?

Business as usual isn't going to cut it.

It's funny because I think their branding and image is what really propelled them through their heyday in the 90s. It was the perfect blend of high tech sheen and functionality. But now it's like consumers have turned to companies that mask "techiness" in favor of lifestyle, something Sony has had difficult cultivating.

I think its pretty obvious that Sony is "Old Business". They ran themselves into the dirt by being reactive, not proactive and by using tired business practices in a faster paced, more competitive market.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

Where else would they go? Atleast currently, no one in Japan buys 360's (or atleast very few), Nintendo ususally does not gain these types of games very often, which I suspect has something to do with the audience but I could be wrong, and most Japanese developers tend to shy away from PC development, atleast in west.

Currently NIS for instance only releases games on Playstation, I don't see where else they would go because if they had a strong enough audience elsewhere they would probably develop multiplatform wouldent they?

If say, next generation Sony were to exit gaming and they pull the plug on the Vita, with the PS4 either dying an early death or ending up never getting to store shelves in the first place, I think the third party developers would take the most logical action of moving as quickly as possible to migrate their games and audiences to another company's hardware.

I guess there's the possibility that the vast majority of their audience are insane Sony fanatics and the only real reason why they ever cared these games in the first place is because they're "Sony games", and they'd simply ditch the developers (if not gaming altogether) if they can't play on a Sony system, but I have my doubts about that.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Sony is saying that gaming will have ~1 billion in profit for what we think will be the PS4's first full year on the market(April14-Mar15). Either they are going to charge for online or they are going to have high margin hardware that will either not compete on price or not compete on volume.

There isn't room for loss leading hardware and free online in that kind of profit projection. Those are the kinds of numbers early in a console cycle that come from a company looking purely at profit and not at market share. Sony isn't going to be dominating anything with the PS4.

And it's exactly what they need to do, get their own house in order and make a profit while ignoring their place in the market, basically a Gamecube type situation.

 

[njean777]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Plus there is this odd illusion where people think that Sony is supporting PSN in its current state for free or something. With great infrastructure and software comes great cost, and continued support costs. When we are discussing a company who is in the fight for its life, its not smart business to dig yourself in the hole and give your goods away for free. Sony cannot afford to play the Free game against MS any longer. They need that Live-like income. PSN+ was a start, but I suspect they'll do whatever they can with the PS4 and PSN to make money from the service.

Sony see's the $250 million MS makes a year with just Live subscriptions and wants a piece of that pie. People, don't kid yourself and pretend Sony is your friend and is offering the service because they love your business. They are offering it for free as a marketable item against MS and also because the service in itself isn't as robust and mature as Live is, making it really not worth paying for. And Sony knows it. But this is just a clear example of Sony decisions gone wrong. Spend tens of millions building PSN, then continue bleeding money from the service. Not healthy.

Sony would do anything possible to get away with charging for PSN online play, people need to understand that. The question is, can they continue to grown the service and be in the red going forward? What is Sony going to do going forward to fix their business model for the PS4?

Business as usual isn't going to cut it.

If what you say is true then I will go pc, where online is free, I do care about one thing next gen and that is which consoles online service will be free. Its principle for me not to pay for something that is free elsewhere and is considerably better also. Everybody else can pay for it and be suckered for 60$ whether you think it is a good deal or not is not the question. You are paying for something that should be free, and is, everywhere else but the xbox. (old argument I know, but I still live by it.)

Also I know it is not Sony's goodwill to not charge for online, but if they want to stay in good terms with the consumers (the most important people) then they wont charge for it and eat the cost. They are in a very delicate situation here, either lose customers for charging for online play, or dont, and keep those customers.

 

[Pistolero]

Apple still has a tiny market share... of personal computers. That is what people said 14 years ago and it still holds true.

You really think with Sony hurting they can afford to match MS online features for free next gen? XBL being the go-to for online play this gen shows paying isn't a barrier.

What you fail to think about is that MS has people locked into their gamertags now. Their cheevos and most important... their friends list online. That will be a hook to carry people over next gen. Next gen won't just be about games, it will be about services.

Sony had a fun ride at the top for two gens but there is way too much quality competition now. As for having more first party devs, sales show that they really don't matter as much as third party games.

It's foolish for Sony to pursue regaining market share. Its mediocre financial situation will drive them to concentrate on profitability. The group has to fight its way back into the green zone, and as such, its strategy should be more modest but much more focused. Launch a reasonably powerful device, with a greater focus on providing great development tools and suitable network related services; strike with a packed initial line up and hope for te best!

 

[ReaperXL7]

If say, next generation Sony were to exit gaming and they pull the plug on the Vita, with the PS4 either dying an early death or ending up never getting to store shelves in the first place, I think the third party developers would take the most logical action of moving as quickly as possible to migrate their games and audiences to another company's hardware.

I guess there's the possibility that the vast majority of their audience are insane Sony fanatics and the only real reason why they ever cared these games in the first place is because they're "Sony games", and they'd simply ditch the developers (if not gaming altogether) if they can't play on a Sony system, but I have my doubts about that.

Ok thats a fair, and logical point. Now what about the developers who make those types of games that Sony helps with funding, games that MS, or Nintendo don't find marketable, or in demand from their audience?

When Sony goes after making, or helping to make games like Heavy Rain, Flower, or a Team Ico game for instance they show a willingness to take risks that I don't think most other publishers would. Who knows though, maybe next gen MS will go after those types of games, but until I see it, I somwhat doubt it.

 

[GopherD]

You really think with Sony hurting they can afford to match MS online features for free next gen? XBL being the go-to for online play this gen shows paying isn't a barrier.

What you fail to think about is that MS has people locked into their gamertags now. Their cheevos and most important... their friends list online. That will be a hook to carry people over next gen. Next gen won't just be about games, it will be about services.

- Sony have the exact same achievement structure in place.

- The majority of services MS provide are US centric with a minority being offered elsewhere. Unless they change contractually, or charge more per month, this will be the same next gen.

- The vita's online offering equals or surpasses XBL in features and is offered for free. The whole vita structure is profitable, so why would this not translate to ps4? It maintains ahuge point of difference if MS charges for online next gen.

- Development costs mean far less 3rd party exclusive content, especially now Nintendo are joining the HD party. The weakest link in game first parties remains MS. While that hasn't been a factor for the Sony/MS fight this gen, when you include Nintendo and a similar services set between all 3, things change.

Be well assured that ms has a tough time ahead as well.

 

[njean777]

Ok thats a fair, and logical point. Now what about the developers who make those types of games that Sony helps with funding, games that MS, or Nintendo don't find marketable, or in demand from their audience?

When Sony goes after making, or helping to make games like Heavy, or Flower they show a willingness to take risks that I don't think most other publishers would. Who knows though, maybe next gen MS will go after those types of games, but until I see it, I somwhat doubt it.

Severely doubt that, MS only cares about one thing, and that is profits. They dont care about the experimental games at all, this gen showed that. If anything those developers will all probably go with steam. Just look at the problems with both Sony and MS's online services. Jonathan Blow outlined it very well why both console manufactures are behind the times.

 

[StevieP]

Severely doubt that, MS only cares about one thing, and that is profits. They dont care about the experimental games at all, this gen showed that. If anything those developers will all probably go with steam. Just look at the problems with both Sony and MS's online services. Jonathan Blow outlined it very well why both console manufactures are behind the times.

All 3 companies only care about profits. Those "experimental games" you speak of are made to make money. If they don't, good management will think twice about greenlighting in future.

Those unique experiences are available on all 3 platforms in all different shapes and sizes, both with hardware and software.

 

[mclaren777]

Want a strategy? Jettison the TV division.

I sure hope this doesn't happen.

 

[Valnen]

Sony used to mean quality when I was a wee lad.

Kaz, you've got your work cut out for you.

Sony still builds a ton of quality products. Their higher end headphones are some of the best I've ever used. Loved the hell out of my MDR 7506's before someone stepped on them...

 

[njean777]

All 3 companies only care about profits. Those "experimental games" you speak of are made to make money. If they don't, good management will think twice about greenlighting in future.

Those unique experiences are available on all 3 platforms in all different shapes and sizes, both with hardware and software.

Yeah but Sony is the only one to fund major games leaning towards those experiences. That is the difference. MS doesn't. So case and point if MS wont help then Steam is the most likely place they will go as pc gamers give everything a chance plus the developer does not have to pay for cert on steam.

 

[StevieP]

Yeah but Sony is the only one to fund major games leaning towards those experiences. That is the difference. MS doesn't. So case and point if MS wont help then Steam is the most likely place they will go as pc gamers give everything a chance.

All 3 companies have funded plenty of unique experiences this gen. Some good, some bad. But they're out there.

 

[njean777]

All 3 companies have funded plenty of unique experiences this gen. Some good, some bad. But they're out there.

NAme one that comes to the budget of Heavy Rain, or The Last Guardian. These are two very different games that will never be on any other console. That is not the story for MS. Most of their games end up on PC eventually, and usually better also. Come to think of it the only games not on pc that I know of on XBLA/Xbox are Gears, Halo 3 and after, and Shadow Complex. That is all I can think of and all those games are not very experimental. Fez is rumored to come to pc so I wouldn't count that one yet.

Nintendo I can give you that, but Nintendo is always the odd one out. I still support them, but not MS.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

What does Sony mean to you now? Cause I think they're still a damn good quality brand, albeit less popular.

The Sony Vaio Laptops are the most exclusive PC laptops you can get. But even they have an entire shitty low end plastic section to fight HP, Dell and all those assholes. And those bad cheap models? thats usually those that ends up in stores.
Vaio engineers are great at making small but powerful laptops with discrete graphics. I believe Sonys were the first with island style keyboards that Apple switched too later. I also think Sony was one of the first with graphic switching.


Those products aint perfect but they should be doing way better. If the selection was better picked, I think the brand would be worth more. For some reason every Vaio still ships with shitty bloatware which is annoying.



Sony still got some of the worlds best designers, and they still make some good advertisement, but shit is clear. They need to focus and pick their targets.

 

[Averon]

I sure hope this doesn't happen.

If they don't get that division under control soon, they will have no choice but to.

 

[lucius]

So how long until I can buy a Vita on clearence for 50 bucks?

 

[darkwing]

So how long until I can buy a Vita on clearence for 50 bucks?

based on the number of doomed threads, not long now

 

[DCharlie]

based on the number of doomed threads, not long now

based on the number of doomed threads, i should have a whole batch of $20 3DSs to sit along side my "free with cornflakes" PS3 whilst i play nothing but Wii games as it revolutionizes the way we play!

GAFs record on predicting the future, take on a whole, is largely shite.

 

[encephalon]

I'm pretty sure the consoles are sold at a loss to make the platform more attractive to consumers, who will then buy games which Sony makes money via licensing fees.

 

[njean777]

based on the number of doomed threads, i should have a whole batch of $20 3DSs to sit along side my "free with cornflakes" PS3 whilst i play nothing but Wii games as it revolutionizes the way we play!

GAFs record on predicting the future, take on a whole, is largely shite.

Yes sir it is, but it will continue to happen.

 

[Projectjustice]

Apple makes a product and its the best? Last I checked, Iphone has been playing catchup with android phone hardware and features for over 3 years now. Let me know when a 4G Iphone drops.

 

[DCharlie]

Yes sir it is, but it will continue to happen.

Your prediction here is the only one cast in iron!

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I've always avoided sony due to their 'look at this awesome proprietary format' shit they love to do.

Only thing I've ever owned from them was a bravia TV. almost 6 years old and still runs great. Are they still good at TVs? Can't think of anything else Sony I'd be happy owning.

Apple makes a product and its the best? Last I checked, Iphone has been playing catchup with android phone hardware and features for over 3 years now. Let me know when a 4G Iphone drops.

that's.... arguable at best.

 

[njean777]

Your prediction here is the only one cast in iron!

Shit, I am wrong all the time .

For all I know sony could go out of business next gen, I would be sad, but it could happen. I just do not foresee it happening just yet.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Come to think of it the only games not on pc that I know of on XBLA/Xbox are Gears, Halo 3 and after, and Shadow Complex.

LOL, funny stuff. I don't get why you are even arguing if you are this ignorant.

 

[encephalon]

Coming from a DELL, I decided to buy a Sony VAIO, one of the few (can't think of any others at the moment) non gaming Sony products I own. Supposedly for roughly the same price as it cost to build the DELL. The difference in quality is clear and the screen looks better than my cheap Samsung HDTV (I do not know much my TV actually costs, because it was given to me instead of a TV that I had paid for, which SEARS couldn't provide for me).

Assuming for a moment that Sony's products are built well for a higher price, then maybe part of Sony's problem is that people buy electronics like they wear clothes. Why spend more money on a product if it's not a status symbol? "Apple" is a designer label. "Sony" isn't anymore (although I do have a coworker who has inflated ideas of Sony quality).

 

[King Boo]

if i read between the lines correctly, it also means nintendo is doomed

 

[Mario007]

Music unlimited on the vita is absolutely brilliant.

i meant extending it to different countries and the same goes for video unlimited

 

[ReaperXL7]

I've always avoided sony due to their 'look at this awesome proprietary format' shit they love to do.

Only thing I've ever owned from them was a bravia TV. almost 6 years old and still runs great. Are they still good at TVs? Can't think of anything else Sony I'd be happy owning.



that's.... arguable at best.

Lets not pretend that Sony is the only hardware manufacturer with a hard on for proprietary Peripherals.

 

[encephalon]

i meant extending it to different countries and the same goes for video unlimited

You can buy Japanese music outside of Japan via Sony's music service?

 

[frAntic_Frog]

Why spend more money on a product if it's not a status symbol? "Apple" is a designer label. .

apple is considered "status symbol" now? welll gee williker Thank you Gen X and Gen Y yuppie consumers! thanks for having such priorities on straight that a "smartphone" that you spend $1500 over a 2 year contract outweighs the myriad of concerns facing our country! perhaps the chinese companies that pocketed your money will one day use that very same money to finance your US government issued foodstamps and welfare checks!


God Bless the US-of-A!

 

[njean777]

LOL, funny stuff. I don't get why you are even arguing if you are this ignorant.

Love how you excluded the pc bit, also keywords my good sir: THAT I KNOW OF. Glad you missed that (I bolded it so you could see this time). Instead of just saying that, you could have proved me wrong with other titles. But I guess that is just a bit to hard for you.

 

[DCharlie]

apple is considered "status symbol" now? welll gee williker Thank you Gen X and Gen Y yuppie consumers! thanks for having such priorities on straight that a "smartphone" that you spend $1500 over a 2 year contract outweighs the myriad of concerns facing our country! perhaps the chinese companies that pocketed your money will one day use that very same money to finance your US government issued foodstamps and welfare checks!


God Bless the US-of-A!

EVERYONE is guilty - first hand experience in Japan : clothes made in Japan are 10 times the cost of those made in China. All i hear from Japanese people is bitching about how the Japanese clothes prices are unrealistic.... meanwhile bitching about China and their products whilst holding their price up as a benchmark!

It's drives me mad. You want Japanese quality and onshore workforces making goods but you want chinese prices? I've a fucking diagram i need to show you.

People have expectations on costs - WE ARE ALL GUILTY.

 

[RukusProvider]

Love how you excluded the pc bit, also keywords my good sir: THAT I KNOW OF. Glad you missed that (I bolded it so you could see this time). Instead of just saying that, you could have proved me wrong with other titles. But I guess that is just a bit to hard for you.

Most people like to avoid the list wars circle jerk but have at it.

 

[Laguna X]

I hope Kaz can turn things around for Sony. I've bought two of their products this year (Vita and NEX C3) and really enjoy both devices immensely.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Love how you excluded the pc bit, also keywords my good sir: THAT I KNOW OF. Glad you missed that (I bolded it so you could see this time). Instead of just saying that, you could have proved me wrong with other titles. But I guess that is just a bit to hard for you.

I didn't exclude the PC bit(reread my post) and I'm not going to make a list for you. If you don't know of any 360 exclusive games, seems odd to make statements about the library being worse than another console.

I've never been to Australia or know of any restaurants there, so I won't go into a thread about restaurants and tell people how shitty the restaurants in Australia are. There's a lesson to be learned there.

 

[njean777]

Most people like to avoid the list wars circle jerk but have at it.

I can see that, I don't need a whole list just some other examples. The only thing he/she had to do was list a few. Instead he calls me ignorant after misreading my statement.

I didn't exclude the PC bit(reread my post) and I'm not going to make a list for you. If you don't know of any 360 exclusive games, seems odd to make statements about the library being worse than another console.

I've never been to Australia or know of any restaurants there, so I won't go into a thread about restaurants and tell people how shitty the restaurants in Australia are. There's a lesson to be learned there.

Wait where did I say it was worse? I just said they don't have as many experimental games, I never said the library of the Xbox did not have quality games...The only better line I included was for pc and that is talking from a graphics standpoint not gameplay.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I wish I could say I disagree with the majority of the article.

 

[Always-honest]

If anything they need to quit like 5 of their jobs and focus on a couple.

Exactly. Their last keynote made me shiver.
Ridiculous.

 

[speculawyer]

They just need a second job.

 

[Team Filler]

Kaz needs to pull some iron-fisted Yamauchi shit and fire every single person in that company that continues to remain uncooperative until all that's left are people eager to put them back into the black and keep it that way.

 

[HylianTom]

Sony needs to go all-in with their next console. Crazy-high, cutting-edge, well-optimized, uber-powerful hardware sold at a very affordable, mass-market price.

Going with modest hardware isn't going to distinguish themselves from Microsoft one bit. Hell, do they really want to risk a more modest step in power, thus being perceived as "slumming" it with the likes of Nintendo? C'mon!

Indeed, Sony's gotta go specs-crazy, as there is no other viable option that would capture the hearts and minds of the hardcore. It would be a case of Sony being true to itself. I, for one, would be proud of them.

 

[speculawyer]

All of Sony's phones are better than iPhones.

Sony makes phones?