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[BlueTsunami]

I don't think anything we're experiencing now is effected in any way by "slowness." All of this is happening incredibly fast. Things like this normally take many months or even years.

Instant gratification generation. We've been spoiled by commercialess Netflix and being able to watch The Wire in its entirety without having to wait between seasons.

 

[KHarvey16]

You can argue that the sanctions have been put in place in the interest of US national security, so this could definitely be considered treason.

Yeah I think we should separate use of the word treason into a colloquial definition of general betrayal and the legal definition (at least in the US). It would be hard to characterize it as legally treason here given the narrow definition but it might qualify as espionage or something similar. As far as the colloquial usage I think it's pretty clearly a betrayal, and that's sort of the form most people are using it in I think.

Instant gratification generation. We've been spoiled by commercialess Netflix and being able to watch The Wire in its entirety without having to wait between seasons.

Yeah, I've seen in the past when we go like 12 hours without breaking news and the "oh well guess that's over" sort of sentiments pop up.

 

[Saint Gregory]

This administration already reminds me so much of the W. Bush administration but somehow even more corrupt which didn't seem possible. I remember Bush's treasury secretary wrote a book about his time in office at the beginning of the administration and said that the very first cabinet meeting that they had was primarily about strategizing an invasion of Iraq. It couldn't be more clear what the Trump administrations primary motivation is right now in regards to Russia but the Republicans in congress and Trump's support in the country will continue to pretend not to see it because they think that they're all in on the con somehow.

 

[theWB27]

I don't think anything we're experiencing now is effected in any way by "slowness." All of this is happening incredibly fast. Things like this normally take many months or even years.

I can dig that. But with people like McConnel and Comey not playing ball and trying to get to the bottom of this it's going slower than if they were all on board.

Instant gratification generation. We've been spoiled by commercialess Netflix and being able to watch The Wire in its entirety without having to wait between seasons.

Has nothing to do with instant gratification. It has to do with seeing those who have power to investigate being wholly reluctant to do so.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Certainly more evidence than would be required to give credence to "aliens are visiting us" stories you've espoused so many times before.

Ether indeed!

 

[KHarvey16]

I can dig that. But with people like McConnel and Comey not playing ball and trying to get to the bottom of this it's going slower than if they were all on board.

I'm not so sure if that's true or not. Resistance to continuing an investigation, real or perceived, might be encouraging these leaks, leading to things appearing to move quicker. It's hard to say.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Has nothing to do with instant gratification. It has to do with seeing those who have power to investigate being wholly reluctant to do so.

I'd say its a mixture of both. There's a process in place, and yes the Right seems reluctant, if not flat out refusing to keep the ball rolling but all eyes (press and citizens) are on the administration and the investigating bodies.

The concern here and why theres a pushback towards people who want results now is due to the resultant defeatism. As if things are hopeless due to Trump still being in place. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[theWB27]

I'm not so sure if that's true or not. Resistance to continuing an investigation, real or perceived, might be encouraging these leaks, leading to things appearing to move quicker. It's hard to say.

If there's resistance from those in power things are going to go slower.
Counterpoint is seeing how the GOP pushed thru their candidates because they hold the power despite resistance from the Dems. There wouldn't be a need for leaks pushing this forward if they were all game.

I'd say its a mixture of both. There's a process in place, and yes the Right seems reluctant, if not flat out refusing to keep the ball rolling but all eyes (press and citizens) are on the administration and the investigating bodies.

The concern here and why theres a pushback towards people who want results now is due to the resultant defeatism. As if things are hopeless due to Trump still being in place. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

It's not. It is going slower because of the reluctance of the GOP. They are VERY slowly taking some action.

I'm very patient. I just hope it doesn't stall.

 

[KHarvey16]

If there's resistance from those in power things are going to go slower.
Counterpoint is seeing how the GOP pushed thru their candidates because they hold the power despite resistance from the Dems. There wouldn't be a need for leaks pushing this forward if they were all game.

The question is are the leaks pushing things forward faster than if there wasn't resistance to encourage leaks.

 

[Stinkles]

The question is are the leaks pushing things forward faster than if there wasn't resistance to encourage leaks.

I firmly believe the leaks are part of the investigation. CIA technique to shake things they already have - to see what else falls out - who panics and who do they contact.


There is no inner circle leaker - and they each suspect the other.

 

[theWB27]

The question is are the leaks pushing things forward faster than if there wasn't resistance to encourage leaks.

Yea I got nothing there.

 

[Stinkles]

The main reason I think the investigation has some genuinely juicy stuff is that Russia is defaulting back to mild belligerence. They know they shot their load too soon. Underestimated how ham handed and narcissistic Trump would be and how incompetent and venal his crew is.

 

[BronsonLee]

The main reason I think the investigation has some genuinely juicy stuff is that Russia is defaulting back to mild belligerence. They know they shot their load too soon. Underestimated how ham handed and narcissistic Trump would be and how incompetent and venal his crew is.

Yeah, they kinda killed the whole 'wink wink, nudge nudge, lol' thing real fast

I figured either the GOP or Russia would overdo it right out of the gate, but not both

 

[commedieu]

.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The main reason I think the investigation has some genuinely juicy stuff is that Russia is defaulting back to mild belligerence. They know they shot their load too soon. Underestimated how ham handed and narcissistic Trump would be and how incompetent and venal his crew is.

Can't wait for the definitive account of whats transpiring behind close doors at this very moment.

 

[theWB27]

Can't wait for the definitive account of whats transpiring behind close doors at this very moment.

Think it's purely money?

 

[KHarvey16]

I firmly believe the leaks are part of the investigation. CIA technique to shake things they already have - to see what else falls out - who panics and who do they contact.


There is no inner circle leaker - and they each suspect the other.

Sounds plausible enough. And ultimately I think the effect of these leaks is the same even if they aren't being directed for that purpose. I'm sure there's plenty of chatter these days.

Can't wait for the definitive account of whats transpiring behind close doors at this very moment.

Would be one hell of a read.

 

[Stinkles]

Think it's purely money?

No. It's the actual state of the union. Even the billionaires don't want to actually USE their KochBunkers. So money is involved but in a rare moment of forward thinking clarity.

 

[thepotatoman]

This administration already reminds me so much of the W. Bush administration but somehow even more corrupt which didn't seem possible. I remember Bush's treasury secretary wrote a book about his time in office at the beginning of the administration and said that the very first cabinet meeting that they had was primarily about strategizing an invasion of Iraq. It couldn't be more clear what the Trump administrations primary motivation is right now in regards to Russia but the Republicans in congress and Trump's support in the country will continue to pretend not to see it because they think that they're all in on the con somehow.

I remember when Bush creating that Energy Task Force filled with oil executives being a big scandal. Now we have an oil executive as the secretary of state.

 

[Steel]

I remember when Bush creating that Energy Task Force filled with oil executives being a big scandal. Now we have an oil executive as the secretary of state.

And he's one of the sanest people in the cabinet. Scary times.

 

[theWB27]

No. It's the actual state of the union. Even the billionaires don't want to actually USE their KochBunkers. So money is involved but in a rare moment of forward thinking clarity.

Yea that sounds a bit worse.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Can the GOP just impeach Trump already?

The GOP are too cowardly to do so & are too stupid to not do so.

 

[mo60]

So a Ukrainian lawmaker sends a to Mr Flynn that involves overthrowing a democratically elected government to elect another russian friendly government in Ukraine in order to make it easier for the US to lift sanctions. I'm not that shocked about this.

 

[GaimeGuy]

So, Trump's personal attorney went to his National Security Advisor with a proposal to overthrow the ukranian government and lift Russian sanctions as a matter of US policy.

Without Trump's knowledge.

Riiiiiiight

 

[Freshmaker]

Lol why are you guys so mad about Russia interfering in US's election? Finally they get a taste of their own medicine. A silver lining is now the US will never influence another nation's election ever again.

Spoiler

/s

It's just not the same unless Trump gets harassed by dildo helicopters while he's out campaigning.

 

[Electric Eye]

So, Trump's personal attorney went to his National Security Advisor with a proposal to overthrow the ukranian government and lift Russian sanctions as a matter of US policy.

Without Trump's knowledge.

Riiiiiiight

It's possible. One of the main objectives of those surrounding a president is to shield them from wrong doing. Bush had plenty of fall guys and you can bet Trump dose too. If anyone gets busted it won't be Trump but at least the knowledge of what is going on is known and that puts the brakes on it. Trump and Putin will both be pissed.

 

[sc0la]

Yeah I think we should separate use of the word treason into a colloquial definition of general betrayal and the legal definition (at least in the US). It would be hard to characterize it as legally treason here given the narrow definition but it might qualify as espionage or something similar. As far as the colloquial usage I think it's pretty clearly a betrayal, and that's sort of the form most people are using it in I think.

Yeah, I've seen in the past when we go like 12 hours without breaking news and the "oh well guess that's over" sort of sentiments pop up.

What about "treasonous" lower case "t"? Like a seal is not an amphibian, but it is amphibious.

 

[GAF A60-Rim A]

Not sure where's the best place to discuss this but some people I'm following on Twitter have been doing some investigating into the aforementioned Trump lawyer Michael Cohen's international travel, which was alluded to in the Steele Dossier (having allegedly traveled to Prague in August).

Although he initially denied it (saying he was in New York at the time), Louise Mensch and some others on Twitter have pieced together that he flew from New York (where he appeared on a CNN show on the 17th) on his plane (N555LR) to Nassau, Bahamas on the 19th.


Some evidence:

Initial denial:

Geo-tagged twitter timeline (reverse chronological):

N555LR flight history (see entries #5-6):

Not sure if already posted, sorry. More from Louise and her peeps here:
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/833507691318362112 &
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/833517614920036352


Maybe someone smarter than me can work out whether there'd have been some way to get from Bahamas to Europe during this period. Or maybe Russian oligarchs met Cohen there, like that guy flying that M-KATE plane?

 

[HotHamBoy]

can we stop mentioning hillary every time a trump corruption thread pops up? it's been done so many times already and it's getting kinda old.

But how would my dad form an argument?

 

[chadskin]

Cohen told the Times he delivered the proposal to Flynn but told the Post he did not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0b264-f6eb-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html

 

[GAF A60-Rim A]

Cohen told the Times he delivered the letter to Flynn but told the Post he did not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0b264-f6eb-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html

Slip up, obfuscation, or gaslighting? Take your pick.

 

[ugaboga232]

Cohen told the Times he delivered the proposal to Flynn but told the Post he did not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0b264-f6eb-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html

Why did he even confirm this in the first place? Same with Sater.

 

[GAF A60-Rim A]

Why did he even confirm this in the first place? Same with Sater.

Once the story broke and Cohen and Sater know the truth must be out there, and when reached for comment, they kinda have to confirm it and play it down as best they can.

Any other move is far more suspicious.

 

[chadskin]

Trump's lawyer has told 4 different stories about the Russia-Ukraine 'peace plan' debacle

Cohen shifted his story again on Monday, telling Business Insider in a series of text messages that he denies "even knowing what the plan is." But he said in a later message that he met with Artemenko in New York for "under 10 minutes" to discuss a proposal that Artemenko said "was acknowledged by Russian authorities that would create world peace."

"My response was, 'Who doesn't want world peace?'" Cohen said.

One of the Times reporters who broke the peace-plan story, Scott Shane, pointed Business Insider to a statement the newspaper's deputy managing editor gave on Sunday: "Mr. Cohen told The Times in no uncertain terms that he delivered the Ukraine proposal to Michael Flynn's office at the White House. Mr. Sater told the Times that Mr. Cohen had told him the same thing."

Cohen then appeared to alter his story again, telling NBC News that even if he had taken an envelope with a peace plan to the White House, "So what? What's wrong with that?"

Incredible.

 

[mnz]

That sounds like the worst lawyer you could have.

 

[fredrancour]

that sounds like a guy with no prior experience or training handling media attention suddenly floundering in the public eye.

 

[RustyNails]

He's worse than a trapped mouse.

 

[Brinbe]

And no one was surprised (at least those paying attention)

 

[ivajz]

Him or Roger Stone will probably be the first to flip.

 

[sc0la]

That sounds like the worst lawyer you could have.

Did he study Maritime Law?

 

[Hubbl3]

Did he study Maritime Law?

Doubtful because the real money is in Bird Law.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Cohen told the Times he delivered the proposal to Flynn but told the Post he did not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b0b264-f6eb-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html

"My response was, 'Who doesn't want world peace?'" Cohen said.​

You know what they say about the road to hell...

"Change your fake story or lose my number," Cohen said. "I have no time for Trump haters."​

...paved with good inten-wait, why is Cohen talking like a 16 year old?

 

[Euphoria14]

Sean Hannity doing damage control. Keeps saying "unnamed sources" as if that's an argument against, yet him and his overlord cite anonymous sources all the time.

Using other articles from various publications that turn out to not be 100% accurate to paint this as an unlikely story.

So funny considering he uses Brietbart as a source of news.

 

[BlueTsunami]

"My response was, 'Who doesn't want world peace?'" Cohen said.​

You know what they say about the road to hell...

"Change your fake story or lose my number," Cohen said. "I have no time for Trump haters."​

...paved with good inten-wait, why is Cohen talking like a 16 year old?

Grown man with a career using 'hater' in response to an article is embarrassing. Another example of Trump dragging down this country.

 

[Electric Eye]

Someone is in BIG trouble.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/world/europe/andrii-artemenko-ukraine-russia.html?_r=0

Prosecutors in Ukraine are investigating whether a member of Parliament committed treason by working with two associates of President Trump’s to promote a plan for settling Ukraine’s conflicts with Russia.

The suggestion that Crimea be handed over to Russia legally, even for a limited time, particularly outraged Crimean Tatars, the ethnic group in Ukraine whose members consider the peninsula their historic homeland.

Refat Chubarov, a Tatar member of Parliament, wrote on Facebook that Mr. Artemenko should be stripped of his parliamentary immunity and arrested.

“Given the continued Russian occupation of Crimea,” he wrote, “which is characterized by the total suppression of the rights and freedoms of the Crimea Tatar people; violent kidnappings and killings of peaceful citizens; arrests of Crimean Tatar citizens and attacks on their homes and families; as well as the persecution of journalists, the actions of Andrii Artemenko are unequivocally qualified as treason.”

 

[m_shortpants]

can we stop mentioning hillary every time a trump corruption thread pops up? it's been done so many times already and it's getting kinda old.

Has nothing to do with Hillary, it has to do with his supporters, the rights, and the entire GOP being so flippantly hypocritical.

 

[Username1198]

At this point, trump could be caught on camera blowing putin and the GOP would praise it.

"I give the best blowjobs, tremendous blow jobs, the best!"

*GOP claps maniacally