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NYT: Flynn received proposal on how to lift Russia sanctions week before resignation

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C

chadskin

Member
A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia.

Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul D. Manafort.
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But the proposal contains more than just a peace plan. Andrii V. Artemenko, the Ukrainian lawmaker, who sees himself as a Trump-style leader of a future Ukraine, claims to have evidence — “names of companies, wire transfers” — showing corruption by the Ukrainian president, Petro O. Poroshenko, that could help oust him. And Mr. Artemenko said he had received encouragement for his plans from top aides to Mr. Putin.

“A lot of people will call me a Russian agent, a U.S. agent, a C.I.A. agent,” Mr. Artemenko said. “But how can you find a good solution between our countries if we do not talk?”

Mr. Cohen and Mr. Sater said they had not spoken to Mr. Trump about the proposal, and have no experience in foreign policy. Mr. Cohen is one of several Trump associates under scrutiny in an F.B.I. counterintelligence examination of links with Russia, according to law enforcement officials; he has denied any illicit connections.

The two others involved in the effort have somewhat questionable pasts: Mr. Sater, 50, a Russian-American, pleaded guilty to a role in a stock manipulation scheme decades ago that involved the Mafia. Mr. Artemenko spent two and a half years in jail in Kiev in the early 2000s on embezzlement charges, later dropped, which he said had been politically motivated.

While it is unclear if the White House will take the proposal seriously, the diplomatic freelancing has infuriated Ukrainian officials. Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Valeriy Chaly, said Mr. Artemenko “is not entitled to present any alternative peace plans on behalf of Ukraine to any foreign government, including the U.S. administration.”
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https://nytimes.com/2017/02/19/us/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-russia.html
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
So the proposal was to cause a coup in Ukraine? I'm sure Congress will investigate this illegal proposal at length
lol

Edit: Actually, yeah this is pretty awful. That's some extreme violation of international norms and US foreign policy just to funnel some money back to Russia.
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
Guys guys guys, we're all forgetting this has to be because of CROOKED HILLARY and her emails and mess that Barack Obama left us.

That's basically the only sentence a Trump supporter needs to hear for this to become a complete non issue.
 
S

Slime

Banned
Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul D. Manafort.
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hahahahaha

Mr. Cohen and Mr. Sater said they had not spoken to Mr. Trump about the proposal, and have no experience in foreign policy.
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Oh fuck off.

Trump knows all about this and the tape is real.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
m_shortpants said:
Guys guys guys, we're all forgetting this has to be because of CROOKED HILLARY and her emails and mess that Barack Obama left us.

That's basically the only sentence a Trump supporter needs to hear for this to become a complete non issue.
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can we stop mentioning hillary every time a trump corruption thread pops up? it's been done so many times already and it's getting kinda old.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Overthrowing the government of Ukraine to help Russia sure seems like a horrible fucking plan that should lead to us having no allies ever again while sending Ukrainians into pain and suffering.

The only positive would be view to the castration of McCain, Graham, and Rubio.
 
K

kmax

Member
What has Russia done to warrant such a lenient treatment? Hey, didn't they just hack the election and undermine the whole American democratic system?

It's baffeling. Trump ought to be impeached asap.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Those same morons who invent idiotic pizza shop conspiracies will look at this sort of thing and scream "NO EVIDENCE, MEANS NOTHING". If they don't just claim this must be fake because reasons.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
I realized, if true, this is an extremely impressive leak. It busts in on major inner circle stuff versus just high-level administration stuff we've seen before.

Wheeljack539 said:
Would it be likely that this is what the Senate discussed the other day?
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Possible. This is a high enough tier of awful that it could cause members of both parties to walk out stone faced. The President's inner circle floated a plan to spark a coup in Ukraine with the eventual goal being to lift sanctions on Russia? Holy fuck.
kmax said:
What has Russia done to warrant such a lenient treatment?
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We all know the answer to this already...
 
S

Steel

Banned
Yes, I totally believe that Trump's lawyer went directly to Flynn with that proposal and never mentioned it to Trump.

Totally believe it. afalkfjdal;
 
O

obijkenobi

Member
aspiegamer said:
I realized, if true, this is an extremely impressive leak. It busts in on major inner circle stuff versus just high-level administration stuff we've seen before.

Possible. This is a high enough tier of awful that it could cause members of both parties to walk out stone faced. The President's inner circle floated a plan to spark a coup in Ukraine with the eventual goal being to lift sanctions on Russia? Holy fuck.We all know the answer to this already...
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Despite all the leaks, this is the first one that has literally stunned me as I read the article.
 
A

ayeorkean

Member
Ithil said:
Those same morons who invent idiotic pizza shop conspiracies will look at this sort of thing and scream "NO EVIDENCE, MEANS NOTHING". If they don't just claim this must be fake because reasons.
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Bruh, deep state, Soros, NSA/CIA, are the REAL story.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
1030929.gif
 
P

Prof. Bathtub

Member
Lol why are you guys so mad about Russia interfering in US's election? Finally they get a taste of their own medicine. A silver lining is now the US will never influence another nation's election ever again.
/s
 
R

rjinaz

Member
smurfx said:
can we stop mentioning hillary every time a trump corruption thread pops up? it's been done so many times already and it's getting kinda old.
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Maybe it will stop happening once the president of the United States and Republican leadership stops doing it.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
There is nothing inherently wrong with exploring sanction relief; it will eventually become an avenue to pursue were the two nations to improve their current standing. The insinuation, however, that sanctions being removed to be an order from the Kremlin itself is - in my opinion - without much merit. I can accept that Russian players are trying to influence Trump aides, but that is to be expected within the diplomatic world; people use leverage and favours.

The issue here is whether or not these Trump aides are being coerced into accepting demands from Moscow. That is a huge stretch to which there has been no evidence, despite all the leaks and IC looking into it for almost a year.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
There is nothing inherently wrong with exploring sanction relief; it will eventually become an avenue to pursue were the two nations to improve their current standing. The insinuation, however, that sanctions being removed to be an order from the Kremlin itself is - in my opinion - without much merit. I can accept that Russian players are trying to influence Trump aides, but that is to be expected within the diplomatic world; people use leverage and favours.

The issue here is whether or not these Trump aides are being coerced into accepting demands from Moscow. That is a huge stretch to which there has been no evidence, despite all the leaks and IC looking into it for almost a year.
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Are you ignoring the trying to overthrow the Ukranian government part?
 
F

Future

Member
smurfx said:
can we stop mentioning hillary every time a trump corruption thread pops up? it's been done so many times already and it's getting kinda old.
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Trump mentioned Hillary again a few days ago during his press conference. It's still relevant and on topic because he keeps using her as a distraction
 
S

Scirrocco

Member
Okay, I'm confused. This seems extremely serious, but the article has quotes from the people involved which seems to say their talking openly about it. I just woke up, so maybe my brains still fuzzy, but that doesn't seem to make sense if their proposing a coup.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Meus Renaissance said:
There is nothing inherently wrong with exploring sanction relief; it will eventually become an avenue to pursue were the two nations to improve their current standing. The insinuation, however, that sanctions being removed to be an order from the Kremlin itself is - in my opinion - without much merit. I can accept that Russian players are trying to influence Trump aides, but that is to be expected within the diplomatic world; people use leverage and favours.

The issue here is whether or not these Trump aides are being coerced into accepting demands from Moscow. That is a huge stretch to which there has been no evidence, despite all the leaks and IC looking into it for almost a year.
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Did you happen to read a completely different story about rational actors making reasonable arguments about sanctions? Because that's not the story in the op AT ALL.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Hillary mentions and butheremails.jpg will die when Trump stops talking about her and people who used that mantra confess to their sins. He's the one that keeps re-litigating the election.
Meus Renaissance said:
The issue here is whether or not these Trump aides are being coerced into accepting demands from Moscow. That is a huge stretch to which there has been no evidence, despite all the leaks and IC looking into it for almost a year.
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Whether or not they were coerced is irrelevant, actually! The fact that this got proposed and floated around is damning enough. People are just making an... educated guess... based on available information. But it doesn't matter if Canada demanded it, or if Cohen wrote this up himself late one night before delivering it. It's horrible.

Seriously, "proposed a coup to lessen sanctions" vs "proposed a coup to less sanctions because Russia might have asked for it" is comical to lower the shock value of.
 
I

IC5

Member
sunshine and gasoline said:
It is extremely difficult to believe that Trump wouldn't know anything about this. He might not know the specifics, I don't see him giving a damn about the details of the plans, but he certainly is aware of what his people are doing.
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Yep. And even claiming to not know, means you dont have control. Not having control, at the least, has been grounds for resignations and firings for leaders, in the past.
 
E

Electric Eye

Banned
Trump wants to build so bad in Russia and holy shit at the proposal it's both a way for Trump to get deals in Moscow and destabilize Ukraine by supporting a pro-Russian opposition party. No wonder the the fighting intesified.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
theWB27 said:
Destroyed evidence won't look good if they're actually serious about this. The optimist in me believes there are GOP members who don't want the power they hold to be messed with in the next elections.
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i want to believe some of the gop senators are smarter than their idiot members in the house and realize they need to start doing something now to keep their seats.
 
S

Steel

Banned
BlastProcessing said:
I'm sure they will get right on that...

JVU12zU.jpg
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Thing is, if they destroy evidence, and the FBI has copies of some of the destroyed evidence, everyone will know that they're trying hard to cover shit up. Destroying evidence in itself will be a smoking gun, in this case.
 
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