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[ComputerNerd]

Slightly off topic... Is he still proposing to raise Capital Gains taxes to 30%, because if he is, I simply can't afford to vote for him.

Both Democrats will raise the capital gains tax. Not sure to what % though. They'll also raise the dividend tax, and the death tax.

All 3 of which will severely hurt me financially. And I'm middle class! If they really wanted to help the middle class, they'd let those taxes remain low.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Unity FTL???? This election is more than half a year away. It would be nice if you guys stopped clawing at each other's necks over this. As a Poli Sci major I can assure you that this will be but a footnote in a couple of weeks.

Stop letting the MSM dictate what you debate over and how you do so.

Then why didn't folks let Ron Paul off the hook? :\

The folks with the racists associates have been outed.

Obama should have known that associating with this dickhead was a bad idea.

As someone who had to attend a lot of church as a child, none of my priests or bishops preached a racist agenda. I mean "spoke the truth".

There's really no excuse for this. Not saying Obama's a bad guy, he just doesn't make the right decisions for the safety of his political career. :\

We're all screwed - it's going to be welfare state for the people, or welfare state for the corporations depending how the election goes. 2004 taught me my lesson. There's no such thing as democracy in America, just a horse and pony show then the Illuminati puts their candidate in the seat. :X

 

[quest]

Both Democrats will raise the capital gains tax. Not sure to what % though. They'll also raise the dividend tax, and the death tax.

All 3 of which will severely hurt me financially. And I'm middle class! If they really wanted to help the middle class, they'd let those taxes remain low.

Shhh you can't say that Obama's tax raises will only hurt the evil rich people. You are not middle class you must be one of those evil rich people who purchase stocks and save money. Damn you for using self control with your personal finances rich person.

 

[artredis1980]

Obama's good friend Marty Nesbitt cries during the Obama race speech

 

[XxenobladerxX]

Obama's good friend Marty Nesbitt cries during the Obama race speech

Pansy.

 

[effzee]

just listening to this speech right now...the way he defines the anger and resentment from the black perspective (or the minority perspective) and the way he highlights how even if the words do not come out right, the anger is real....

is very similar to a lot of problems the world is facing politically. especially the middle east where lost in the violence, the terrorism, and the killings are the root causes and problems.

and just like i hope obama addresses the race issues and the root causes and what unites and divides ppl i hope he approaches the foreign problems in a similar manner. of course all this assuming he becomes president and then does not act like every other president up to this point.

btw which comments of his rev. are being labeled racist? i only read his comments about 911 and how the actions of the united states in the past led up to those events. was something else brought up? because if those are the comments being discussed...i do not really see them as racist or even that out of line. most of the studies and reports commissioned on 911 point to the fact that previous mishaps in the middle east led to these problems.

 

[Stinkles]

Solomon Makes a Difficult Decision

Everyone in Israel was easily impressed because it was bastard hot and lousy with sandflies and disease.

* * *.

fixed

 

[ComputerNerd]

Shhh you can't say that Obama's tax raises will only hurt the evil rich people. You are not middle class you must be one of those evil rich people who purchase stocks and save money. Damn you for using self control with your personal finances rich person.

LOL. Good one.

But yeah, I do aspire to someday be rich. Or at least live comfortably. I can't do that with the money I'm making. So I gotta control my spending, and invest it. So far I've put away $25K. I'm 27.

Both of my parents are middle class.

The only way I'll be able to break the barrier, and retire comfortably (my goal is to have about a million dollars put away, while owning a house), is to have those taxes remain low.

 

[artredis1980]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

 

[sprsk]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

We all know he's a muslim anyway.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

Is that what they're saying?

I would hope the message would be "find another jump up, sit down church" really. :\

 

[Juice]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

I think the message is to disown the pastor.

 

[Triumph]

"So today at 11 am, a Presidential candidate spoke about race to Americans as if we were adults."

Oh Jon Stewart, you card you.

 

[acklame]

fantastic speech that's full of substance and courage!

 

[avatar299]

You're spouting bullshit that's so patently stupid that it's offensive to sapient beings, so I'm calling you out. It doesn't take a fucking genius to see the lack of reasoning going on here on your part. Seriously it's like Hillary's supporters are willing to sacrifice half their IQ for their candidate.

How rude. Would your messiah approve of this?

just listening to this speech right now...the way he defines the anger and resentment from the black perspective (or the minority perspective) and the way he highlights how even if the words do not come out right, the anger is real....

is very similar to a lot of problems the world is facing politically. especially the middle east where lost in the violence, the terrorism, and the killings are the root causes and problems.

and just like i hope obama addresses the race issues and the root causes and what unites and divides ppl i hope he approaches the foreign problems in a similar manner. of course all this assuming he becomes president and then does not act like every other president up to this point.

Just how exactly is the executive in chief going to solve these social problems. More affirmative action, more speeches.

Barack Obama didn't say anything new. He just said what everyone wanted to hear

btw which comments of his rev. are being labeled racist? i only read his comments about 911 and how the actions of the united states in the past led up to those events. was something else brought up? because if those are the comments being discussed...i do not really see them as racist or even that out of line. most of the studies and reports commissioned on 911 point to the fact that previous mishaps in the middle east led to these problems.

White people are the solve reason for every problem in the world.
White people only see African women as something to fuck
White people created AIDS just to kill minorities

I don't know, but to me all of the above is racist.

You might not like me playing "the victim card", but there was another huge point to your posts that is evidently very important to you in some way, that you're now trying to push aside. I'm talking about the hostility and tension in these threads. I can tell it's important to you amidst your comments directed at me personally, and from some posts you've continued to make in this thread.

What I'm saying is, I think it's great that you think the tension here should be reduced, that the rabidness needs to be toned down.

But attacking me is so not going to do anything to solve THAT problem, because these threads are inflammatory and rabid even when I'm NOT posting much or often.

You may have an argument, but honestly you have no credibility. People see you, PD and APF as just joke characters now, even if you have a valid point.

What I'm saying is don't bother becuase you have lost.

 

[Innotech]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

I find it highly stupid that right wing and left wing are used as separate terms when they all are basically the same.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Awesome speech. I feel that people who think he should have 'disowned' his pastor aren't being realistic about the often imperfect relationships that people can have in real life. People are people, I guess. Too bad this controversy potentially threatens not only Obama's chances, but also the Democratic party's chances come election time due to this childish infighting and division. I'll be mighty pissed if McCain gets the job. (I voted for Obama in the AZ primary.)

 

[CoolTrick]

People see you, PD and APF as just joke characters now, even if you have a valid point.

Maybe, but PD and APF have been some of the only posters here who are willing to reasonably discuss things.

If that brands us as joke characters, because we don't support Obama (and, really, it IS the reason, because that's how everyone treats Hillary supporters here), then I'm happy to be one.

 

[ComputerNerd]

I find it highly hypocritical that Right wing christian conservatives are telling Obama to disown the church as in disown his faith in Christianity.

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Black people can hold any political office. They can do whatever they want. We have a black man that is a legitimate contender for the white house. The former mayor of LA was black. The governor of New York is black... and blind. Black Americans have grown huge fortunes (Oprah, and the founder of BET are both billionaires). The Secretary of State is a black woman. The previous secretary of state was black. Both appointed by Bush. Several Senators are black. There are no more ceilings. What Obama's pastor is saying is just wrong.

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

 

[avatar299]

Maybe, but PD and APF have been some of the only posters here who are willing to reasonably discuss things.

If that brands us as joke characters, because we don't support Obama (and, really, it IS the reason, because that's how everyone treats Hillary supporters here), then I'm happy to be one.

Hey it could be worse.

I guran-fucking-tee when we hit the general McCain supporters will be considered old racist republicans

 

[artredis1980]

A husband who loves his wife sometimes does not leave his wife if she had an affair and wants to heal the wounds
A wife who loves her husband sometimes does not leave her husband if had an affair and wants to heal the wounds
A mother does not disown her son if he has done something criminal and wants to heal his wounds
a father does not disown his daughter if she has done something immoral and wants to heal her wounds


If all the above have the ability to heal thier loved ones, why cannot the people in the United States , Christians, everyone understand that Obama does not want to leave his pastor who made him stronger in faith, who married him and baptized his children and instead wants to heal the wounds that made the Pastor speak that way


If we talk the way his opponents are talking then they would tell the husband , you support your wifes affair, the wife that you like ur husband having an affair!? You would tell the mother that you support your sons crime because you are on his side? You would tell the father you are immoral if you are supporting your daughter??

 

[avatar299]

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

That is an interesting statement. Did Martin Luther King really think he could eradicate racism.. becuase that seems to be the thought process people have of him now.

I think MLK would be estactic about America in 2008.....but every black person around him would tell him he is wrong.

 

[sprsk]

Perhaps you guys can move the pity party somewhere else?

 

[XxenobladerxX]

America has no right to tell Obama to disown his pastor.

 

[Uncooked]

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Black people can hold any political office. They can do whatever they want. We have a black man that is a legitimate contender for the white house. The former mayor of LA was black. The governor of New York is black... and blind. Black Americans have grown huge fortunes (Oprah, and the founder of BET are both billionaires). The Secretary of State is a black woman. The previous secretary of state was black. Both appointed by Bush. Several Senators are black. There are no more ceilings. What Obama's pastor is saying is just wrong.

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

I would say there is still quite a bit to do before his dream is reached.

 

[CoolTrick]

New Public Polling Policy Pennsylvania poll in the aftermath of the firestorm.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_031708.pdf


Obama has a healthy 35 point margin on the black vote.

 

[numble]

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Black people can hold any political office. They can do whatever they want. We have a black man that is a legitimate contender for the white house. The former mayor of LA was black. The governor of New York is black... and blind. Black Americans have grown huge fortunes (Oprah, and the founder of BET are both billionaires). The Secretary of State is a black woman. The previous secretary of state was black. Both appointed by Bush. Several Senators are black. There are no more ceilings. What Obama's pastor is saying is just wrong.

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

Name these several senators. Statistically, (no ceilings and all) there should be around 12, just like there should be 50 woman in the Senate.

 

[Innotech]

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Black people can hold any political office. They can do whatever they want. We have a black man that is a legitimate contender for the white house. The former mayor of LA was black. The governor of New York is black... and blind. Black Americans have grown huge fortunes (Oprah, and the founder of BET are both billionaires). The Secretary of State is a black woman. The previous secretary of state was black. Both appointed by Bush. Several Senators are black. There are no more ceilings. What Obama's pastor is saying is just wrong.

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

EXACTLY.

 

[Juice]

America has no right to tell Obama to disown his pastor.

Americans have that right, though. It's outrageous, but they have the right to.

 

[avatar299]

Name these several senators. Statistically, (no ceilings and all) there should be around 12, just like there should be 50 woman in the Senate.

Over 50 black people have served in United States congress. Only 5 (or 3 of you don't count the reconstruction years) have served in the Senate. I would say thats not as bad as you make it.

 

[methane47]

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Black people can hold any political office. They can do whatever they want. We have a black man that is a legitimate contender for the white house. The former mayor of LA was black. The governor of New York is black... and blind. Black Americans have grown huge fortunes (Oprah, and the founder of BET are both billionaires). The Secretary of State is a black woman. The previous secretary of state was black. Both appointed by Bush. Several Senators are black. There are no more ceilings. What Obama's pastor is saying is just wrong.

We are living in King's dream. People just need to open their eyes and realize it.

You dont know what you're talking about.... You see things from one perspective and you hold that as truth.... you're somewhat right.. but more wrong...

 

[ComputerNerd]

Name these several senators. Statistically, (no ceilings and all) there should be around 12, just like there should be 50 woman in the Senate.

Well, if you're going statistically, black people don't make up 12% of every state. Some states have a very large black population, some have very few.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

New Public Polling Policy Pennsylvania poll in the aftermath of the firestorm.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_031708.pdf


Obama has a healthy 35 point margin on the black vote.

Which really doesn't matter as the black vote is only 12% of the combined US population. It's a case of the deck being stacked against you. Assuming the full 12% voted, that would require a huge percentage of the remaining 88% of voters not vote against your candidate.

Really, I think this is the Obama campaign's farewell. Sort of how Bush got idiots to put him back in office with the Osama boogeyman under the bed in 2004, when the exact same shit that's going on today - was going on then!

I really believe it will come down to simple shit like that.

'04 was the Turrist boogeyman election.
'08 is down to the old woman or the old man, because of the population disparity and Obama's pastor alienating a lot of voters for him. :\

But it doesn't matter - the unseen hand will ensure the Mayan calendar is correct and in four years we're all living in the streets eating our neighbors. :O

 

[Unison]

Both Democrats will raise the capital gains tax. Not sure to what % though. They'll also raise the dividend tax, and the death tax.

All 3 of which will severely hurt me financially. And I'm middle class! If they really wanted to help the middle class, they'd let those taxes remain low.

Terrible. Anyone who has any net worth at all has to be afraid of an Obama presidency.

I think I had seen Hillary say she only wanted to raise capital gains taxes moderately, to 20% or so. Obama, I am fairly certain said 30%, though I was hoping he had somehow come back to planet Earth since.

Essentially doubling the taxes that investors pay will pretty quickly bring the economy to a standstill. I know a lot of people don't understand financial matters, but this is a total dealbreaker for me w/r/t Obama.

I don't see why it's not more of an issue, especially given the likelihood that either Democratic candidate would likely be able to push any such cockamamie tax plan through, because they'd be working with a Democratic house.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

To me, race and gender are not all that important when compared to war, the economy, and education. We know that women and minorities have been shitted on, but things are significantly better than they were in the past. Perfect equality is a farce and people that are chasing such a thing are in for a world of disappointment.

 

[Dali]

Obama's good friend Marty Nesbitt cries during the Obama race speech

You taking notes Hill dawg? Get your supporters to cry for you.

We're not saying disown his church. We're saying disown his pastor. Obama not only didn't do that, he defended him. The reality is there really isn't any more white-on-black racism anymore, outside of certain individuals, which is a factor in any race.

Ignoring some of the other things you said which are debatable I think Obama is to be respected for not totally abandoning his pastor - the man who converted him and Baptized his children, the man who has helped and inspired him - of so many years just because it may have been politically safe. Shows he values and respects his long standing ties and relationships and won't be influenced by what's politically popular.

If explaining where Wright is coming from is defending him then so be it. There is a huge difference between understanding why someone behaves the way they do and endorsing that behaviour. I totally understand why McCain would be quicker to say "gook" than your average American. Does that mean I agree with him saying it?

 

[Innotech]

Well, if you're going statistically, black people don't make up 12% of every state. Some states have a very large black population, some have very few.

Louisiana is 32.5%
Second highest in the nation.

 

[ComputerNerd]

That is an interesting statement. Did Martin Luther King really think he could eradicate racism.. becuase that seems to be the thought process people have of him now.

I think MLK would be estactic about America in 2008.....but every black person around him would tell him he is wrong.

I don't think he thought we could eradicate racism. That's impossible. There will always be someone, somewhere, who won't like you because of your race.

I agree that he'd be ecstatic about America in 2008.

 

[Innotech]

To me, race and gender are not all that important when compared to war, the economy, and education. We know that women and minorities have been shitted on, but things are significantly better than they were in the past. Perfect equality is a farce and people that are chasing such a thing are in for a world of disappointment.

Ive been basically saying this the whole time and being called a crazy idiot for it.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Ive been basically saying this the whole time and being called a crazy idiot for it.

They certainly have the right to call you a "crazy idiot", but I believe they're wrong. Race and gender are both sticky subjects and if you say anything the least bit negative toward them then the knee jerk reactions start to come out in droves.

 

[Tamanon]

Ive been basically saying this the whole time and being called a crazy idiot for it.

Don't get it twisted, you didn't say there was more important stuff originally, you said racism isn't an issue to anybody because there are black celebrities doing well

 

[Innotech]

Don't get it twisted, you didn't say there was more important stuff originally, you said racism isn't an issue to anybody because there are black celebrities doing well

perhaps I should have elaborated then because the whole point of what I was trying to say was that racism is a tiny issue that shouldnt really be a factor compared to more important matters like the ones he mentioned. Instead of bitching about things no human can really change about themselves how about solving some of the nations core problems?

 

[Tamanon]

perhaps I should have elaborated then because the whole point of what I was trying to say was that racism is a tiny issue that shouldnt really be a factor compared to more important matters like the ones he mentioned. Instead of bitching about things no human can really change about themselves how about solving some of the nations core problems?

Well, that attitude might've at least cut down on the people laughing in your face. But to be fair, none of these issues no one human can really change. Discussion is the method to help combat racism.

 

[harSon]

Maybe, but PD and APF have been some of the only posters here who are willing to reasonably discuss things.

If that brands us as joke characters, because we don't support Obama (and, really, it IS the reason, because that's how everyone treats Hillary supporters here), then I'm happy to be one.

So basically the only rational thinkers on this board are those who agree with you? Makes sense.

 

[Innotech]

Well, that attitude might've at least cut down on the people laughing in your face. But to be fair, none of these issues no one human can really change. Discussion is the method to help combat racism.

If I really gave a fuck about people laughing in my face in this thread or anywhere on Gaf I wouldnt post anything.

 

[Tamanon]

If I really gave a fuck about people laughing in my face in this thread or anywhere on Gaf I wouldnt post anything.

The only reason I even mentioned that was because you just said you were called a "crazy idiot". Maybe now you'll understand where people were coming from.

"Hey you guys are doing great, you've got P Diddy!"

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Well, that attitude might've at least cut down on the people laughing in your face. But to be fair, none of these issues no one human can really change. Discussion is the method to help combat racism.

Discussion also has the potential to promote racism or to further polarize the races as well. And that's my point, really. Racism, ageism, sexism, etc. are all going to exist. They will exist now, they existed in the past, they will undoubtedly exist in the future. We can work to combat these problems, but they'll never be fully rectified. So discussing these things is great and all, but I really do think they should take a backseat to the other things I listed.

 

[Innotech]

The only reason I even mentioned that was because you just said you were called a "crazy idiot". Maybe now you'll understand where people were coming from.

"Hey you guys are doing great, you've got P Diddy!"

except by celebrities I also assumed you guys understood people like Oprah and Montel and various famous black people in everything from movies to music to tv shows and book authors. Not to mention high profile jobs held by black people. The black community in general is well represented in america. It is by the very virtue of all these people being successful and impacting american society that is the reason why I said we are past the slavery and racism issues. If those were still dominant issues you wouldnt see such widespread black American success.

 

[Tamanon]

Discussion also has the potential to promote racism or to further polarize the races as well. And that's my point, really. Racism, ageism, sexism, etc. are all going to exist. They will exist now, they existed in the past, they will undoubtedly exist in the future. We can work to combat these problems, but they'll never be fully rectified. So discussing these things is great and all, but I really do think they should take a backseat to the other things I listed.

To be fair, we're only in the discussion phase for handling any issue, since it's the primary and the candidates have no real power anyways yet.

Plus, Obama didn't even really want to give this speech, it was kinda forced on him by ABCNews

 

[siamesedreamer]

Slightly off topic... Is he still proposing to raise Capital Gains taxes to 30%, because if he is, I simply can't afford to vote for him.

Last I heard it was somewhere between 24-28%.

What was it under Clinton?