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[PhoenixDark]

Yes. But there is nothing wrong with the church itself, only that pastor. And the pastor is retiring

But why would Obama continue to associate himself with a man like this, apparently for many years? Shouldn't he have distanced himself from this man and his hate speech? I certainly don't believe that Obama agrees with this guy on anything, but you must agree this isn't a good look.

 

[Tamanon]

But why would Obama continue to associate himself with a man like this, apparently for many years? Shouldn't he have distanced himself from this man and his hate speech? I certainly don't believe that Obama agrees with this guy on anything, but you must agree this isn't a good look.

How is he "associating" with him?

 

[Star Power]

But why would Obama continue to associate himself with a man like this, apparently for many years? Shouldn't he have distanced himself from this man and his hate speech? I certainly don't believe that Obama agrees with this guy on anything, but you must agree this isn't a good look.

I wouldn't call it "hate speech"- there is a lot of truth in what he says. I do agree that it is NAGL for Obama, because this guys views aren't very mainstream and Obama has to appeal to everyone in order to win the presidency.

How is he "associating" with him?

He is his pastor. How is that not associating with him?

 

[PhoenixDark]

How is he "associating" with him?

Oh I don't know, by attending his church services? Can you imagine the outrage there would be if a politician attended Jerry Falwell's church on a regular basis before his death?

 

[Atrus]

A member of a religious organization says something antagonistic.

Which part of this is new? Which part of this isn't tolerated by the people at large? Finally, why is this an exceptional case now when it's for Obama when such antagonism can be found entrenched in entire denominations?

It's not Christian if someone isn't condemning something. If all the good is attributed to God, and all the bad is not attributed to it, you inevitably find some excuse to displace that bad onto something other than God.

 

[Atrus]

Oh I don't know, by attending his church services? Can you imagine the outrage there would be if a politician attended Jerry Falwell's church on a regular basis before his death?

Where is the outrage when Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard, or Al Sharpton affiliates themselves closely with Presidents?

 

[Tamanon]

Oh I don't know, by attending his church services? Can you imagine the outrage there would be if a politician attended Jerry Falwell's church on a regular basis before his death?

So, Obama should give up his religious affiliation because somebody in the church espouses views that are not beneficial to him? I don't understand this argument.

Although I do think it's funny, the "vile, reprehensible" stuff is the same stuff that Giuliani mocked Ron Paul for mentioning during the debates, that we did have a hand in causing 9/11.

 

[bob_arctor]

Where is the outrage when Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard, or Al Sharpton affiliates themselves closely with Presidents?

Oh, I'm sure the hammer's gonna come down hard on McCain for his little snuggle with Tom Hagee. Any day now. *checks watch*

 

[Tamanon]

Oh, I'm sure the hammer's gonna come down hard on McCain for his little snuggle with Tom Hagee. Any day now. *checks watch*

It's just a really long windup.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So, Obama should give up his religious affiliation because somebody in the church espouses views that are not beneficial to him? I don't understand this argument.

Although I do think it's funny, the "vile, reprehensible" stuff is the same stuff that Giuliani mocked Ron Paul for mentioning during the debates, that we did have a hand in causing 9/11.

giving up religious affiliation =! attending a different church

Seems like a clear cut issue to me, but partisanship blinds. The dude has an extensive history of saying outrageously offensive things, and I'm just surprised a politician would continue to go to his services; an aide or someone had to have told Obama this would look bad in the public

 

[schuelma]

Oh, I'm sure the hammer's gonna come down hard on McCain for his little snuggle with Tom Hagee. Any day now. *checks watch*

Umm..he has taken heat for that, you know.

 

[bob_arctor]

Umm..he has taken heat for that, you know.

Really? Please, direct me to said heat. Maybe it will be the same level of heat Obama may receive.

 

[Tamanon]

giving up religious affiliation =! attending a different church

Seems like a clear cut issue to me, but partisanship blinds. The dude has an extensive history of saying outrageously offensive things, and I'm just surprised a politician would continue to go to his services; an aide or someone had to have told Obama this would look bad in the public

There was no other church for his denomination in the city.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

If Obama was in the Justice League, his name would be "Teflon" and everything would just slide right off him. I think he may even use Pam cooking spray as deodorant.

Reagan. Clinton. Obama. Believe. :lol

 

[harSon]

Umm..he has taken heat for that, you know.

I've seen it mentioned on CNN once by Jamal Simmons and discussed for roughly a minute on Real Time with Bill Maher.

 

[PhoenixDark]

There was no other church for his denomination in the city.

And that makes it fine and dandy correct? I'm not criticizing Obama's religion beliefs, and he has every right to go to whatever church he wants to. My point is simply that as an elected official he's got to know that everything he does will be magnified and critiqued, and with that in mind attending the services of a pastor like this is questionable for his public image

 

[Tamanon]

And that makes it fine and dandy correct? I'm not criticizing Obama's religion beliefs, and he has every right to go to whatever church he wants to. My point is simply that as an elected official he's got to know that everything he does will be magnified and critiqued, and with that in mind attending the services of a pastor like this is questionable for his public image

So, then what is better when judging a man? That he would compromise his personal religious beliefs for his own avarice and greed or that he would continue to follow his faith and then just deal with any issues that might arise?

This isn't the same thing as hanging out with a bud, or owning a business venture, this is faith.

 

[levious]

do any of you actually go to church? There's a lot more to your affiliation than just one pastor. Some people feel a great connection with the congregation as a whole.

 

[Gaborn]

Because it is one of the only black focused liberal churches in south side Chicago. The church even supports gay marriage, there aren't many churches supporting that these days

It's a shame the Senator is only willing to give gays psuedo marriage rights then.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So, then what is better when judging a man? That he would compromise his personal religious beliefs for his own avarice and greed or that he would continue to follow his faith and then just deal with any issues that might arise?

This isn't the same thing as hanging out with a bud, or owning a business venture, this is faith.

But the problem is that his pastor has nothing to do with said faith. I'm not demanding he give up his faith and opinions - I'm merely suggesting that perhaps a change of churches would be good, considering his pastor such a fool.

But what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander here clearly, so I'm not going to waste time arguing over the obvious.

 

[harSon]

But the problem is that his pastor has nothing to do with said faith. I'm not demanding he give up his faith and opinions - I'm merely suggesting that perhaps a change of churches would be good, considering his pastor such a fool.

But what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander here clearly, so I'm not going to waste time arguing over the obvious.

The pastor retired....

 

[Tamanon]

But the problem is that his pastor has nothing to do with said faith. I'm not demanding he give up his faith and opinions - I'm merely suggesting that perhaps a change of churches would be good, considering his pastor such a fool.

But what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander here clearly, so I'm not going to waste time arguing over the obvious.

You either don't understand churches or you're choosing not to and using this as a petty political point. You're doing her proud!

 

[bob_arctor]

I've seen it mentioned on CNN once by Jamal Simmons and discussed for roughly a minute on Real Time with Bill Maher.

Wow. That's a regular inferno. Still, this just confirms that Obama is the new McCain.

 

[Atrus]

But the problem is that his pastor has nothing to do with said faith. I'm not demanding he give up his faith and opinions - I'm merely suggesting that perhaps a change of churches would be good, considering his pastor such a fool.

But what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander here clearly, so I'm not going to waste time arguing over the obvious.

Should there be no Catholic politicians then? Given the Churches stance against homosexuality.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You either don't understand churches or you're choosing not to and using this as a petty political point. You're doing her proud!

I attended church for more than 17 years, and we actually switched churches twice based on disagreements with the congregation.

The fact that he is retiring is beyond irrelevant - Obama attended the church for more than a decade correct, and this guy IS the pastor of the congregation correct? The double standards created here are mind blowing

 

[levious]

I attended church for more than 17 years, and we actually switched churches twice based on disagreements with the congregation.

so you had problems with the congregation as a whole? Sounds a bit different.

 

[harSon]

I attended church for more than 17 years, and we actually switched churches twice based on disagreements with the congregation.

The fact that he is retiring is beyond irrelevant - Obama attended the church for more than a decade correct, and this guy IS the pastor of the congregation correct? The double standards created here are mind blowing

This guy WAS the pastor of the congregation. And since running for the Democratic nomination he has distanced himself from Jeremiah Wright and made it clear that he disagrees greatly with alot of stuff the man has said.

 

[GG-Duo]

Anyone claiming to be a Christian while blissfully declaring God's damnation on anything is as far removed from Christianity as could ever be possible. That's all I'll say.

I think it depends if he acknowledges the redemption part of Christianity in his sermons. Both the "America F Yeah!" and "We Burn in Hell" is kind of missing key parts of Christian theology.

 

[PhoenixDark]

so you had problems with the congregation as a whole? Sounds a bit different.

Both disputes were over doctrinal issues, one of which concerned the path the pastor felt the church needed to go down. If I attended a church where a pastor was constantly making offensive statements I'd leave. Obviously people have their right to disagree with me, and likewise

 

[AmishNazi]

Who was the judge in the video of the church Borat attended? I can't remember for the life of me now, but that was more outrageous. Now if Obama had said this shit himself yeah it'd be bad, but merely attending church where this guy preached is eh.

 

[harSon]

Both disputes were over doctrinal issues, one of which concerned the path the pastor felt the church needed to go down. If I attended a church where a pastor was constantly making offensive statements I'd leave. Obviously people have their right to disagree with me, and likewise

But if we disagree it's a double standard.

 

[Guileless]

Based on the prior warnings here that we are in the incipient stages of a theocracy, I'm surprised at the benefit of the doubt being given to Sen. Obama here. Hard to keep politics and religion separate if you think God damns the country you aspire to lead as a political entity. If McCain went to a church for 20 years and donated significant amounts of money to it, wrote a book about what an inspiration the pastor had been to him personally, and the pastor said 'God damn America' for its tolerance of gays or what have you, it's good to know we would have the same pragmatic approach as long as the pastor retired a few months beforehand.

:lol come one people. We know you true believers don't care but this will look terrible to swing voters who will decide the election. The most evil Rovean genius couldn't make this up.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I think its great this guy is being provocative. There's some element of harsh truth to his views, although of course -- no country's sins excuse the mass murder of its innocent civilians. But thats not what he's saying. You should be able to say what this pastor is saying, without having a member of your congregation (that happens to be running to be a Presidential candidate) having to make excuses for you to some Jewish group. The guy is a completely fucking seperate entity with his own mind. Why should Obama have to answer for him? And secondly, why shouldn't these opinions be aired?

 

[Star Power]

Based on the prior warnings here that we are in the incipient stages of a theocracy, I'm surprised at the benefit of the doubt being given to Sen. Obama here. Hard to keep politics and religion separate if you think God damns the country you aspire to lead as a political entity. If McCain went to a church for 20 years and donated significant amounts of money to it, wrote a book about what an inspiration the pastor had been to him personally, and the pastor said 'God damn America' for its tolerance of gays or what have you, it's good to know we would have the same pragmatic approach as long as the pastor retired a few months beforehand.

:lol come one people. We know you true believers don't care but this will look terrible to swing voters who will decide the election. The most evil Rovean genius couldn't make this up.

Did you even read what he said? Have you even read this thread?

 

[levious]

Did you even read what he said? Have you even read this thread?

that part of Guileless' post was a hypothetical.

 

[Star Power]

that part of Guileless' post was a hypothetical.

Yeah I just re-read it. My bad.

 

[typhonsentra]

It's his biggest weakness. This guy could potentially cost him the election in November.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Based on the prior warnings here that we are in the incipient stages of a theocracy, I'm surprised at the benefit of the doubt being given to Sen. Obama here. Hard to keep politics and religion separate if you think God damns the country you aspire to lead as a political entity. If McCain went to a church for 20 years and donated significant amounts of money to it, wrote a book about what an inspiration the pastor had been to him personally, and the pastor said 'God damn America' for its tolerance of gays or what have you, it's good to know we would have the same pragmatic approach as long as the pastor retired a few months beforehand.

:lol come one people. We know you true believers don't care but this will look terrible to swing voters who will decide the election. The most evil Rovean genius couldn't make this up.

Exactly. This benefit of the doubt wouldn't (and has not) been given to a conservative politician sitting up in outrageous anti gay/abortion sermons. McCain may be attending sermons of the equally outrageous Hagee, but considering the majority of the electorate is white I'd imagine Obama's connect to this particular pastor will have a more negative effect.

 

[Star Power]

Exactly. This benefit of the doubt wouldn't (and has not) been given to a conservative politician sitting up in outrageous anti gay/abortion sermons. McCain may be attending sermons of the equally outrageous Hagee, but considering the majority of the electorate is white I'd imagine Obama's connect to this particular pastor will have a more negative effect.

I agree with you that this will have a mor enegative effect, but I don't think the comparison to Hagee and Pat Roberson and other fundamentalists is a good one.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

That pastor is such an idiot. He really needs to shut up.

What was the best quote of 2007? President of Iran when he said at Columbia University

"In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who has told you that we have it.":lol

 

[Seth C]

I think it depends if he acknowledges the redemption part of Christianity in his sermons. Both the "America F Yeah!" and "We Burn in Hell" is kind of missing key parts of Christian theology.

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

I think the Bible is fairly clear in warning about the dangers of taking God's judgment in to your own hands. I can only imagine how much more so when you presume to know the will of God and speak damnation for him.

 

[CHYME]

Both disputes were over doctrinal issues, one of which concerned the path the pastor felt the church needed to go down. If I attended a church where a pastor was constantly making offensive statements I'd leave.

Besides "God damn America," what was so offensive about what he said?

 

[PhoenixDark]

I agree with you that this will have a mor enegative effect, but I don't think the comparison to Hagee and Pat Roberson and other fundamentalists is a good one.

I'll agree with you. At least Obama's pastor isn't trying to influence the country's laws and take away people's rights.

 

[lopaz]

Luke 6:37

I think the Bible is fairly clear in warning about the dangers of taking God's judgment in to your own hands. .

Like it's clear on anything

 

[Dahellisdat]

ugh....these campaigns are starting to be full of SHIT.

*edit*
...have been riddled with shit throughout

 

[Guileless]

Besides "God damn America," what was so offensive about what he said?

:lol good one.

 

[grandjedi6]

Great, so the 10,000 people who go to Obama's church should all be held accountable for that one pastor too. Awesome logic guys

 

[v1cious]

didn't we already know all this? Fox news reported it months ago. also he said this stuff years ago and Obama already denounced it, unlike the Geraldine Ferraro situation.

 

[Mandark]

What the pastor was really trying to say.

 

[Karma Kramer]

This fucking race needs to end soon... or we are going to be looking right into the devils eyes again for at least another 4 years.

Spoiler

this is an exaggeration, mccain obviously isn't the devil... but it sounds cool if I phrase it like that