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[harSon]

This sir is a pure lie.



Things like this is what makes Farrakhan a horrible person.

I never said he wasn't a delusional idiot, simply that he's basically a cookie cutter congregation leader.

 

[JB1981]

church basically sounds like a marxist front group.

 

[APF]

Hitler was a vegetarian and he liked puppies too who doesn't like puppies a monster that's who

 

[CoolTrick]

So, I'm just wondering, is the Obama fan's defense on this "Despite him sitting in this church for over 20 years and voluntarily choosing to do so, he holds not iota of any of the ideals of his pastor."?

Because while I frankly don't believe Obama really does, what in the world does this say about his judgement? Twenty YEARS of listening to this. Why doesn't he do more to seperate himself from these comments, and repeatedly pound it over and over again? Why was Mitt Romney crucified for being a Mormon, but not Obama, for directly having a bigot pastor for over 20 years?

Since I'll probably now be called a racist and accusing Obama of being a bigot due to people not even reading, again, let me say I don't really think Obama agrees at all. But that doesn't excuse him for not doing more against this.

Twenty. Years.

 

[v1cious]

So, I'm just wondering, is the Obama fan's defense on this "Despite him sitting in this church for over 20 years and voluntarily choosing to do so, he holds not iota of any of the ideals of his pastor."?

Because while I frankly don't believe Obama really does, what in the world does this say about his judgement? Twenty YEARS of listening to this. Why doesn't he do more to seperate himself from these comments, and repeatedly pound it over and over again? Why was Mitt Romney crucified for being a Mormon, but not Obama, for directly having a bigot pastor for over 20 years?

Since I'll probably now be called a racist and accusing Obama of being a bigot due to people not even reading, again, let me say I don't really think Obama agrees at all. But that doesn't excuse him for not doing more against this.

Twenty. Years.

this is not new information, he denounced this guy a long ass time ago. what are people not getting here?

 

[Guileless]

:lol Mandark, you have elevated internet condescension to an art form. The console warz factions should be bidding for your services.

 

[CoolTrick]

this is not new information, he denounced this guy a long ass time ago. what are people not getting here?

Twenty Years.

"Oh, yeah, I don't agree."

Nope, sorry. I'm sorry that you Obama fans won't hold a presidential candidate to a higher standard than just needing THAT.

 

[APF]

v1cious: I thought he just said he disagreed with him?

 

[AmishNazi]

If he hadn't said "God Damn America" 80% of gaf would of agreed with the pastors views.

 

[CoolTrick]

If he hadn't said "God Damn America" 80% of gaf would of agreed with the pastors views.

You're right, as opposed to 90%.

 

[AmishNazi]

It just a funny double standard on GAF. These types of things get said all the time about muslims and no one bats a eye and the few that do get ridiculed to no end. So it's ok to point out a country's faults as long as it's not America?

I've heard a lot of this rhetoric before. The America is reaping what it has sown from it's foreign policy has come out of black mouths, white mouths and highly educated political pundits.

Replace the third strike, drugs and building bigger prisons with abortions, turning our backs on god, and sexual freedoms and it sounds like any other baptist preacher. It's not like he's calling for the eradication of an entire religion in a country based on religious freedom. I take that he's saying that we shouldn't say god bless America when it hardly follows god's rules.

Still trying to figure out how this makes him a bigot though.

 

[electricpirate]

Ehh, I disagree quite a bit with the rabbi converting me in regards to many things. He's said things that I found offensive, but there's more to religion than the leader your most associated with. A congregation is a community, and that community is obviously important to him.

What Obama does need to do is remove this guy from his largely ceremonail role in the campaign. Even any kind of official connection is a bad idea.

 

[harSon]

It just a funny double standard on GAF. These types of things get said all the time about muslims and no one bats a eye and the few that do get ridiculed to no end. So it's ok to point out a country's faults as long as it's not America?

I've heard a lot of this rhetoric before. The America is reaping what it has sown from it's foreign policy has come out of black mouths, white mouths and highly educated political pundits.

Replace the third strike, drugs and building bigger prisons with abortions, turning our backs on god, and sexual freedoms and it sounds like any other baptist preacher. It's not like he's calling for the eradication of an entire religion in a country based on religious freedom. I take that he's saying that we shouldn't say god bless America when it hardly follows god's rules.

Still trying to figure out how this makes him a bigot though.

His comments on drugs and prisons are actually spot on.

 

[AmishNazi]

His comments on drugs and prisons are actually spot on.

Definitely not what Jesus would do.

 

[harSon]

Definitely not what Jesus would do.

I was watching a documentary a week or so ago on the building of massive prisons. They're basically being built in rural towns to compensate for dried up oil reserves. And those cities have 90+ % conviction rates, most of which are Blacks, to fill these prisons. Pretty disgusting stuff.

 

[AmishNazi]

They tried to reopen a prison in my city and were basically denied by the state. We used to house most of the felons from Dayton, Toledo, and Lima. Pretty much the I-75 drug corridor on your way from Detroit from Florida. We had a lot of Detroit natives in our prison too.

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=50237

There's a lot of racial tension in my city right now too. Recently we had a drug raid go very very bad. A mother was shot and killed while holding her baby and the baby was hit also. Could possibly be riots soon and the whole area is freaking out.

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=50512

Idiocracy and blatant racism from members of my community that post there. Sad. Mom deserved to die and cops are not at fault because she might of been in a drug house. Even though from everything I've heard from my connects nothing went on in that house.

http://www.limaohio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=150563
http://www.limaohio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=146297

We're also the city that stole almost a half million dollars of a man's life savings over a few grams of marijuana.

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=47047

http://www.limaohio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=134419

 

[ComputerNerd]

Although Obama probably doesn't share all the views of his pastor, if I were him, I'd have switched churches long ago.

I couldn't bring myself to listen to crap like that for a few hours a week. Something's strange when you're willing to listen to hate speech a few hours a week, and never think to change churches.

 

[harSon]

Although Obama probably doesn't share all the views of his pastor, if I were him, I'd have switched churches long ago.

I couldn't bring myself to listen to crap like that for a few hours a week. Something's strange when you're willing to listen to hate speech a few hours a week, and never think to change churches.

It's really not that bad :lol

 

[effzee]

Twenty Years.

"Oh, yeah, I don't agree."

Nope, sorry. I'm sorry that you Obama fans won't hold a presidential candidate to a higher standard than just needing THAT.

you think for 20 yrs the Pastor said the same thing over and over?

and what exactly did he say that was so wrong? that 911 was not a random event and that a lot of what has happened in history led up to it? that the US's foreign policy in the Middle East and Asia has caused a lot of what we see today?

 

[AmishNazi]

Although Obama probably doesn't share all the views of his pastor, if I were him, I'd have switched churches long ago.

I couldn't bring myself to listen to crap like that for a few hours a week. Something's strange when you're willing to listen to hate speech a few hours a week, and never think to change churches.

How is it "hate speech"? Keep seeing it thrown around but no one is willing to answer it.

 

[Branduil]

This needs to be said more, dammit, MOAR. Well, maybe not the part about NY and the Pentagon, that is uncalled for and unrelated, but pointing out the hypocrisy of our attitudes towards other countries (especially their nuclear policies) when we nuked hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians cause Truman didn't wanna drag out the war... this has always, always rubbed me the wrong way, and it's nice to see it brought into the conversation every once in a while.

The problem is, this guy is saying things that I think are valid opinions... and then he drags 9/11 into it. And as far as I can tell from that article, Obama disagrees with his views on 9/11, so I'm not sure how this is a megaton.

Yes it's so horrible we nuked them instead of going into a land war with potentially millions of casualties on both sides.

 

[harSon]

The most controversial statement in that video was the "US OF KKK & A" bit. And while certainly ignorant, it sure as hell is not a hate speech :lol

 

[Atrus]

Yes it's so horrible we nuked them instead of going into a land war with potentially millions of casualties on both sides.

Dropping 2 atomic bombs onto the civilian populace of a nation which has depleted it's military and strategic resources was unnecessary. The bombs were nothing but the flexing of military power that could have been easily replaced with offshore bombardment or air strikes onto strategic targets.

It would have taken longer, but it would have at least saved the civilian populace the fallout from atomic weaponry.

 

[mckmas8808]

I was watching a documentary a week or so ago on the building of massive prisons. They're basically being built in rural towns to compensate for dried up oil reserves. And those cities have 90+ % conviction rates, most of which are Blacks, to fill these prisons. Pretty disgusting stuff.

People have to commit crimes in order for them to need to build more. Us blacks need to stop committing so many crimes.

 

[Branduil]

Dropping 2 atomic bombs onto the civilian populace of a nation which has depleted it's military and strategic resources was unnecessary. The bombs were nothing but the flexing of military power that could have been easily replaced with offshore bombardment or air strikes onto strategic targets.

It would have taken longer, but it would have at least saved the civilian populace the fallout from atomic weaponry.

I don't think you understand what the Japanese mindset towards surrender was.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Didn't you guys know that the government created crack and AIDS and put them into black communities to kill them? If not maybe you should attend this man's sermons.

This man married Obama and his wife. Would any of you allow this man to marry you and your spouse?

 

[harSon]

People have to commit crimes in order for them to need to build more. Us blacks need to stop committing so many crimes.

Do some research buddy.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think you understand what the Japanese mindset towards surrender was.

I don't understand how you think it was a good idea. You are the main reason why people overseas hate us Americans.

'F' it lets just bomb and kill 10,000s of innocent people in order to save 1,000,000 US military lives.

The way I look at it, if you signed up to be in the military it should be you the one dying. Not innocent people from other nations. They should have land war it up.

 

[mckmas8808]

Do some research buddy.

I'm curious. What are you getting at? Because I've heard plenty of black people being pissed off about the growing rate of prisons being built. Hell I hate the high number of prisons being built.

But I have a feeling I hate it for another reason. What's your reason?

 

[Branduil]

I don't understand how you think it was a good idea. You are the main reason why people overseas hate us Americans.

'F' it lets just bomb and kill 10,000s of innocent people in order to save 1,000,000 US military lives.

The way I look at it, if you signed up to be in the military it should be you the one dying. Not innocent people from other nations. They should have land war it up.

Because of idiots who don't understand basic military tactics?

“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.”

 

[harSon]

Didn't you guys know that the government created crack and AIDS and put them into black communities to kill them? If not maybe you should attend this man's sermons.

This man married Obama and his wife. Would any of you allow this man to marry you and your spouse?

We didn't create it but we sure as hell funded it (Contras for example?). And drugs were not initially seen as a problem until drugs and the violence it brought started to seep into non-minority areas. Which is basically how most things tend to work in this country (Diseases and Gang violence included).

 

[harSon]

I'm curious. What are you getting at? Because I've heard plenty of black people being pissed off about the growing rate of prisons being built. Hell I hate the high number of prisons being built.

But I have a feeling I hate it for another reason. What's your reason?

The fact that these prisons are being built for profit and slave labor in cities with dried up oil reserves. These areas are known to target minorities and have ridiculous conviction rates that are often well over 90%. The fact that are broken prison system no longer seeks to rehabilitate inmates but instead over crowd them for reasons listed above. Taking non-violent criminals and cultivating them into violent people because of our incompetent drug laws and co-ed prisons (Sending Violent and Non-Violent criminals to the same prison).

 

[The Lamonster]

I knew this thread would be ugly.

 

[CoolTrick]

Ugh, so of course, the thread will get derailed into the raving lunatic's actual arguments instead of Obama's link with this guy.

Wasn't I chastised by Amir0x for going slightly off topic in one of these threads? The Debate Thread, wasn't it?

 

[mckmas8808]

Because of idiots who don't understand basic military tactics?

But what if we do what General Patton says, but kill 200,000 innocent people in the process?

 

[Tamanon]

Ugh, so of course, the thread will get derailed into the raving lunatic's actual arguments instead of Obama's link with this guy.

Wasn't I chastised by Amir0x for going slightly off topic in one of these threads? The Debate Thread, wasn't it?

What more is there to discuss about Obama's involvement? It's his preacher, he's already said he doesn't agree with his terms.

 

[AmishNazi]

But what if we do what General Patton says, but kill 200,000 innocent people in the process?

I'm pretty sure Patton "other guy" was referring to soldiers.

 

[Branduil]

But what if we do what General Patton says, but kill 200,000 innocent people in the process?

What if we don't do it and a million civilians die, as well as hundreds of thousands more soldiers?

 

[mckmas8808]

The fact that these prisons are being built for profit and slave labor in cities with dried up oil reserves. These areas are known to target minorities and have ridiculous conviction rates that are often well over 90%. The fact that are broken prison system no longer seeks to rehabilitate inmates but instead over crowd them for reasons listed above. Taking non-violent criminals and cultivating them into violent people because of our incompetent drug laws and co-ed prisons (Sending Violent and Non-Violent criminals to the same prison).

Okay. You and me are on the same page. I didn't think about it from that angle. If what you said is true, then that would help explain why blacks go to jail at higher rates and for longer sentences than whites even when they commit the same crime.

Tis sad. :*(

 

[Cooter]

Check my history, I've supported Obama throughout but this makes him look very bad. I don't believe he believes this garbage but it doesn't make sense that he would take his family to go see this guy.

Twenty years? Really Barack?

 

[harSon]

Ugh, so of course, the thread will get derailed into the raving lunatic's actual arguments instead of Obama's link with this guy.

Wasn't I chastised by Amir0x for going slightly off topic in one of these threads? The Debate Thread, wasn't it?

Discussing the guys views is on topic.

 

[AmishNazi]

Ugh, so of course, the thread will get derailed into the raving lunatic's actual arguments instead of Obama's link with this guy.

Wasn't I chastised by Amir0x for going slightly off topic in one of these threads? The Debate Thread, wasn't it?

You were the one that called the preacher a bigot. We're merely pointing out that really these discussions have been around for a long time and aren't really that bigoted.

 

[mckmas8808]

What if we don't do it and a million civilians die, as well as hundreds of thousands more soldiers?

So why exactly shouldn't more countries have these death saving nuceualr weapons? Hell if thats the case Iran should have them too. To take their viewpoint and combine it with your post they could save a million lives by nuking us (which would scare us from going to war with them). That's if we start to fight them first.


But to answer your question. How and why would have one million civilians die in a normal war?

 

[whytemyke]

great. this is what obama needs fresh off the heels of the ferraro stuff.

 

[CoolTrick]

You were the one that called the preacher a bigot. We're merely pointing out that really these discussions have been around for a long time and aren't really that bigoted.

Excuse you, but when I look at his comments about Jewish people and about race, YES, I think he's a bigot.

 

[Atrus]

I don't think you understand what the Japanese mindset towards surrender was.

I do. However, you don't realize that the immediate impact of the atomic bombs was by and large no different than the continuing firebombing of Japanese cities by more conventional methods.

In testimonies from survivors, nobody even realized that it was a new weapon and it was initially treated as another firebombing strike. What was different however was that this was not only the first occasion an atomic device was used, but also the first occasion it was used on a civilian populace. The effect of atomic fallout wasn't even tested at that time since the atom bomb was newly developed, and was only made known after the Japanese victims were documented.

The war would have been won just as easily without having to bloody the hands with this senseless atrocity, and US military commanders rejected the notion that the atom bomb was required. Part of the hesitation on the Japanese was that they wanted their over-glorified emperor sitting on the throne and the US counter-response to that was to keep leveling cities until unconditional surrender was achieved.

This myth that the Japanese are all die-hard suicidal people is a false one. No civilization has ever had all its members drink the kool-aid, Bushido code or no. So long as you keep on killing the head of any country, you'll find someone willing to surrender to keep both the power and their life. This wasn't even needed in Japan since the government switched from Koiso to the pro-surrender coalition of Kantaro Suzuki back in April of that year, months before the atom bombs were dropped.

 

[Jtrizzy]

My guess is that Barack got in with this guy early in his political career in order to gain credibility with the black community in Chicago, and now it's coming back to bite him in the ass.

I also don't get the argument that "he's just his preacher". He married Michelle and Barack.

 

[CoolTrick]

Exactly, JTrizzy.

I mean, what the fuck? Barack sat in that church for 20 years listening to spiritual advice from this guy?

How the fuck is THAT judgement, nevermind on Day 1?

 

[mckmas8808]

I do. However, you don't realize that the immediate impact of the atomic bombs was by and large no different than the continuing firebombing of Japanese cities by more conventional methods.

In testimonies from survivors, nobody even realized that it was a new weapon and it was initially treated as another firebombing strike. What was different however was that this was not only the first occasion an atomic device was used, but also the first occasion it was used on a civilian populace. The effect of atomic fallout wasn't even tested at that time since the atom bomb was newly developed, and was only made known after the Japanese victims were documented.

The war would have been won just as easily without having to bloody the hands with this senseless atrocity, and US military commanders rejected the notion that the atom bomb was required. Part of the hesitation on the Japanese was that they wanted their over-glorified emperor sitting on the throne and the US counter-response to that was to keep leveling cities until unconditional surrender was achieved.

This myth that the Japanese are all die-hard suicidal people is a false one. No civilization has ever had all its members drink the kool-aid, Bushido code or no. So long as you keep on killing the head of any country, you'll find someone willing to surrender to keep both the power and their life. This wasn't even needed in Japan since the government switched from Koiso to the pro-surrender coalition of Kantaro Suzuki back in April of that year, months before the atom bombs were dropped.

Thanks man. And this is what I don't understand. Why is it that when America does something it's ALWAYS for the better good, but when other countries do it it's wrong?

 

[sprsk]

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