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[Guileless]

"Basically said anything and caused an uproar?" He said the US government invented AIDS and purposely introduced it into inner cities to kill blacks. He said that in a sermon from the pulpit, and Sen. Obama takes his kids there to listen to it.

On one side of the spectrum, you have tough but fair criticism and a demand for America to live up to its ideals. This method was very effective during the Civil Rights era. On the other side, you have paranoid conspiracies that set back the cause of racial reconciliation and encourage separatism in the same way that white supremacy does.

 

[Kitschkraft]

No, I'm just trying to figure out why you think anyone should so damned special to be able to be excused for saying stupid shit. If Pat Robertson or whoever was out there saying that stuff then he would also be a damn idiot (not that he hasn't already said ignorant shit)

All I'm saying is quit trying to justify his comments by bringing up the whole "is there anything that a black man can say in this country without....etc etc etc". It's a tired fucking argument and all it does is make the person arguing look like a whiny bitch.

Are you fucking retarded? I stated very clearly that I was commenting on wider scale issues, not specifically on this mans comments, hence : I'm not even talking about the pastor, just trying to dig deeper into this whole thing, because this man could have basically said anything, and I feel people would have caused an uproar.

I avoided talking about Wright specifically because 1) This "God damn america"/"We brought it amongst ourselves" stuff delves deep into politics and not so much racial divide, which is what I was trying to touch upon, and 2) Because it's really just an individual case regardless of how you cut it, and I am more concerned about the broad attitude towards blacks who have accomplished upwards mobility and the cost of it has taken on their heritage.

Justifying his comments is hardly a concern of mine. I'm concerned about Obamas choices, not Wright and his sermons.

Yeah, he has freedom of speech and he is perfectly entitled to say whatever he wants but with that freedom comes the responsibility of taking whatever backlash comes along with it. Just because he is a black man doesn't mean he is omitted from the criticism of being a fucking tard.

I didn't say shit about freedom of speech, once again, you are trying to manipulate my argument into something different.

To be honest, you are the last person I would ever want to have this discussion with, not because we disagree, but because of my experiences with you in other threads.

 

[siamesedreamer]

From 1997 through 2002, the Obamas reported devoting less than 1 percent of their household income to charity. In 2005, as the book-deal money poured in, they reported $1.65 million in combined income, with $77,315, or 4.7 percent, going to charity.

Only a few of the tax returns released by Obama detail the recipients of his charity. In 1998, when the Obamas reported a combined household income of $191,146 and $1,100 in cash donations to charity, the biggest gift went to Trinity. It totaled $400, about 0.2 percent of their combined income.

In 2005 they gave the church $5,000 and in 2006 it received $22,500. Over the past two years, the Obamas have claimed charitable deductions for $45,000 in gifts to reading programs; $31,000 to CARE, an international aid group; $13,107 to the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation; and $5,000 to the Muntu Dance Theatre. Michelle Obama serves on the board of directors of the South Side dance troupe.

Chicago Tribune


And nevermind the fact that he didn't begin donating money to charities until it was politically expedient to do so...

 

[Aurvant]

Are you fucking retarded? I stated very clearly that I was commenting on wider scale issues, not specifically on this mans comments, hence : I'm not even talking about the pastor, just trying to dig deeper into this whole thing, because this man could have basically said anything, and I feel people would have caused an uproar.

I avoided talking about Wright specifically because 1) This "God damn america"/"We brought it amongst ourselves" stuff delves deep into politics and not so much racial divide, which is what I was trying to touch upon, and 2) Because it's really just an individual case regardless of how you cut it, and I am more concerned about the broad attitude towards blacks who have accomplished upwards mobility and the cost of it has taken on their heritage.

Justifying his comments is hardly a concern of mine. I'm concerned about Obamas choices, not Wright and his sermons.



I didn't say shit about freedom of speech, once again, you are trying to manipulate my argument into something different.

To be honest, you are the last person I would ever want to have this discussion with, not because we disagree, but because of my experiences with you in other threads.

Fine by me. I had already blacklisted you days ago.

Also, if your going to be concerned about Obama's choices then why aren't you concerned that he surrounds himself with these questionable people? William Ayers? Jeremiah White? Tony Lasko (I think thats his name)?

People are making a big deal about it because you have a senator who wants to become president that associates with less than desirable folk. Also, if you were generally concerned about the broad attitude towards blacks and their upwards mobility then I have to ask....are you outraged at the comics and comments uttered about Condoleeza Rice and how people continuously uttered (from the left) that she sold out to the white man?

Or what about Michael Steele from Maryland who had oreos thrown at him during public speeches and appearances by other blacks who accused him of being an "uncle tom".

It seems to me that the only time anyone ever wants to talk about the upwards movement of Blacks in the community is when it serves the black value system.

 

[Kitschkraft]

"Basically said anything and caused an uproar?" He said the US government invented AIDS and purposely introduced it into inner cities to kill blacks. He said that in a sermon from the pulpit, and Sen. Obama takes his kids there to listen to it.

On one side of the spectrum, you have tough but fair criticism and a demand for America to live up to its ideals. This method was very effective during the Civil Rights era. On the other side, you have paranoid conspiracies that set back the cause of racial reconciliation and encourage separatism in the same way that white supremacy does.

This is a fair argument, and I can see it from either side.

I just think that it's a shame that basically, every AA is basically forced to be incomplete in order to succeed in todays America, I don't feel this was the case just 30 or 40 years ago, maybe it's a consequence of the progress we've made....complete assimilation into American culture comes with completely giving up on your own.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Fine by me. I had already blacklisted you days ago.

:lol

Very well, I'll add you to the ignore list and we don't have to say shit to each other.

 

[Vyer]

Ahh, politics. (You will) Never Change.

It's no wonder why so many things in this country are in bad shape.

 

[APF]

Is there anything a black man can say in america, in opposition to white America, that is not going to be seen as crazy/militant/racist?

I would say any minority--including black men--can say quite a lot more in opposition to white people than white people can say "in opposition to black America" (whatever that means) without appearing either crazy or racist. I don't, in fact, say any white person--excepting the first black President--can say a single word "in opposition to black America" without at the very least having to answer calls of their being racist.


edit: by being African American isn't American culture your own?

 

[Dark Octave]

:lol

Very well, I'll add you to the ignore list and we don't have to say shit to each other.

:lol Rocky relationship? You guys will get back together soon. He loves you. I know it.

 

[harSon]

No, I'm just trying to figure out why you think anyone should so damned special to be able to be excused for saying stupid shit. If Pat Robertson or whoever was out there saying that stuff then he would also be a damn idiot (not that he hasn't already said ignorant shit).

All I'm saying is quit trying to justify his comments by bringing up the whole "is there anything that a black man can say in this country without....etc etc etc". It's a tired fucking argument and all it does is make the person arguing look like a whiny bitch.

Yeah, he has freedom of speech and he is perfectly entitled to say whatever he wants but with that freedom comes the responsibility of taking whatever backlash comes along with it. Just because he is a black man doesn't mean he is omitted from the criticism of being a fucking tard.

Thats the difference. Pat Robertson would be labeled as crazy religious zealot while Jeremiah Wright is labeled as a leader of a racist separatist hate movement.

Chicago Tribune


And nevermind the fact that he didn't begin donating money to charities until it was politically expedient to do so...

Holy shit, you're desperate . He didn't donate to charities until it was politically expedient to do so? I'm thinking he didn't begin to donate large sums of money until he actually had money :lol

 

[Dilbert]

Can we all just start focusing on the real issue -- namely, that America has a fixation with electing religious believers of ANY stripe to public office?

 

[Aurvant]

Thats the difference. Pat Robertson would be labeled as crazy religious zealot while Jeremiah Wright is labeled as a leader of a racist separatist hate movement.

I think they both deserve their backlashes, but I don't think that White should be labeled as the leader of a racist separatist hate movement. He isn't THAT controversial, but he gets awfully close to being lumped in with the separatists by saying some of the crap he does.

I mean...we can all agree that Fred Phelps is a douchebag for the things he says right? Couldn't we all agree Jeremiah White is equally retarded for spouting some of the separatist propaganda he does while standing at the pulpit?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

:lol I saw this shit this morning. Unfuckingbelievable.

US government created AIDS and uses it against the blacks?

:lol

US government imports drugs, gives it to the poor people, then arrests them?

WTF?

I said WOW.

Can we all just start focusing on the real issue -- namely, that America has a fixation with electing religious believers of ANY stripe to public office?

*rolls eyes*

 

[harSon]

Can we all just start focusing on the real issue -- namely, that America has a fixation with electing religious believers of ANY stripe to public office?

Isn't that a form of hate? Voting for or against someone based on their believing or non believing in a religion...

 

[Kitschkraft]

I would say any minority--including black men--can say quite a lot more in opposition to white people than white people can say "in opposition to black America" (whatever that means) without appearing either crazy or racist. I don't, in fact, say any white person--excepting the first black President--can say a single word "in opposition to black America" without at the very least having to answer calls of their being racist.

There is a difference between people expecting an apology and people accusing you of being too black.

I believe that this is where the discrepency lies...Obama is not going to be chastised for this solely on "racism" grounds, sure, many journalist and talk show reporters will have a field day out of hyping this as some "anti-PC", "double standard" story, "If McCain had done this, he would be a racist"....yeah yeah yeah. I feel what is really more frightening to people however, is this idea that Obama is going to magically become "blacker" the second he is inagurated, "turning" on white America. You see, Imus was being called a racist, it wasn't necessarily blacks placing him in opposition to his white heritage.....it wasn't about him denouncing anything other then the comments he had made. It's just different when these things happen to blacks...I don't know if I'm explaining myself to you, sorry, I just can't really say it any other way right now.

I'm not the first guy to talk about this topic, Dubois has written on this, Fanon has written on this, many people have discussed the "veil" that minorities where.

edit: by being African American isn't American culture your own?

Thats a whole different ball park, not really trying to get into this on gaf (I've already delved too far into this Wright thing).

 

[siamesedreamer]

Holy shit, you're desperate . He didn't donate to charities until it was politically expedient to do so? I'm thinking he didn't begin to donate large sums of money until he actually had money :lol

His household income in 1998 was almost $200,000. That's "not having money"?

 

[blame space]

US government imports drugs, gives it to the poor people, then arrests them?

WTF?

Yeah pretty fucked up, eh?

 

[harSon]

:lol I saw this shit this morning. Unfuckingbelievable.

US government created AIDS and uses it against the blacks?

:lol

US government imports drugs, gives it to the poor people, then arrests them?

WTF?

I said WOW.



*rolls eyes*

He's wrong about the US creating AIDs although he could definitely make the point that the government doesn't seem to care about issues when they effect minorities for the most part. Diseases, Drugs, Violence, and recently Natural Disasters all follow this line of thinking.

Drugs were not a problem when restricted to ghetto minority areas, once the drugs and the violence they brought seeped into white areas THEN the government made a move to stop it. And the US does have a history of funding the trafficking of drugs, our funding of the Contras is one of several example. Gang violence was not a problem when it solely was between minorities, once these gangs started expanding their terror outside of their own areas THEN the government made a move to stop it. AIDs? If it were the number one death of Whites instead of African & African Americans do you think we would constantly cut funding? Nope. Why can the United States send immediate help to Tsunami victims in South Asia but failed to do so for Katrina victims until a week after its happening?

 

[Guileless]

This is a fair argument, and I can see it from either side.

I just think that it's a shame that basically, every AA is basically forced to be incomplete in order to succeed in todays America, I don't feel this was the case just 30 or 40 years ago, maybe it's a consequence of the progress we've made....complete assimilation into American culture comes with completely giving up on your own.

I can't identify with that sense of betrayal, but I appreciate it exists. Plenty of people are horrified by American culture and its assimilative properties. As a strict value judgment based on religious principles and with reference to the particularly brutal experience of American blacks and Indians, I am sympathetic to the argument. But I think in the interest of future generations, the cause of national unity under the Constitution should place a higher call on the loyalty of the Americans living here in 2008.

 

[harSon]

His household income in 1998 was almost $200,000. That's "not having money"?

Michelle and Barack Obama are both from unprivileged families. Barack attended Columbia University and Harvard Law while Michelle attended Princeton and Hardvard law. I'm not sure of the exact figure but it's most likely a hefty sum of cash, especially when simultaneously trying to raise a family.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

He's wrong about the US creating AIDs although he could definitely make the point that the government doesn't seem to care about issues when they effect minorities for the most part. Diseases, Drugs, Violence, and recently Natural Disasters all follow this line of thinking.

Drugs were not a problem when restricted to ghetto minority areas, once the drugs and the violence they brought seeped into white areas THEN the government made a move to stop it. And the US does have a history of funding the trafficking of drugs, our funding of the Contras is one of several example. Gang violence was not a problem when it solely was between minorities, once these gangs started expanding their terror outside of their own areas THEN the government made a move to stop it. AIDs? If it were the number one death of Whites instead of African & African Americans do you think we would constantly cut funding? Nope. Why can the United States send immediate help to Tsunami victims in South Asia but failed to do so for Katrina victims until a week after its happening?

What this guy said is complete bullshit, and you are somehow trying to spin it into truth?

The government is incompetent at many things. I highly doubt that Katrina was the disaster it turned out to be because it was black folk who were affected more than white folk. I don't think race plays into things as much as you think it does. I'm not saying there isn't racism out there, but I think you are exaggerating quite a bit.

 

[harSon]

What this guy said is complete bullshit, and you are somehow trying to spin it into truth?

The government is incompetent at many things. I highly doubt that Katrina was the disaster it turned out to be because it was black folk who were affected more than white folk. I don't think race plays into things as much as you think it does. I'm not saying there isn't racism out there, but I think you are exaggerating quite a bit.

Our nation has a history of turning a blind eye to minority areas, what makes Katrina any different?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Our nation has a history of turning a blind eye to minority areas, what makes Katrina any different?

Things have changed over the last 50 years greatly. You can't consistently point to the past as if it somehow indicates the current state of matters. Unless you can provide proof, all you have is conjecture.

And none of this makes what this fucking ass clown said right anyhow. He sounds like a racist himself.

 

[Dahellisdat]

His household income in 1998 was almost $200,000. That's "not having money"?

what percentage of your fucking income do you donate to charity?

 

[Enron]

Ugh, so of course, the thread will get derailed into the raving lunatic's actual arguments instead of Obama's link with this guy.

Wasn't I chastised by Amir0x for going slightly off topic in one of these threads? The Debate Thread, wasn't it?

Yeah, and I was banned for it. For "marginalizing" obama supporters by saying there was something to the "cult of personality" aspect. However, you can click on any political thread on GAF and you can see outright contempt, profanity spewing, and much worse towards anyone slightly conservative. And what do you know, no bans. You can say "Fuck you, republican assholes, I hope you all die" but not "You Obama fans are like a cult". Shit, i'll probably be banned again for this too. Oh well. I'm done with the OT.

 

[APF]

I'm not sure I understand the argument that there is necessarily some sinister motivation behind the concept of focusing attention on societal ills that are growing and spreading rather than those which are minimal and contained. I certainly don't understand the argument that following such an obvious economic concept warrants being "damned" by religious authorities.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Yeah, and I was banned for it. For "marginalizing" obama supporters by saying there was something to the "cult of personality" aspect. However, you can click on any political thread on GAF and you can see outright contempt, profanity spewing, and much worse towards anyone slightly conservative. And what do you know, no bans. You can say "Fuck you, republican assholes, I hope you all die" but not "You Obama fans are like a cult". Shit, i'll probably be banned again for this too. Oh well. I'm done with the OT.

That's what you get when the lion share, or all of them perhaps, of people who have control over a site all lean heavily to the liberal left.

 

[harSon]

Things have changed over the last 50 years greatly. You can't consistently point to the past as if it somehow indicates the current state of matters. Unless you can provide proof, all you have is conjecture.

And none of this makes what this fucking ass clown said right anyhow. He sounds like a racist himself.

We've still done jack shit about Gang violence, drugs, etc. in our lesser areas. Things aren't all dandelions and butterflies. And I've said I don't personally agree with all of his statements (A lot of them I do). His Aids statement, while idiotic, is definitely not anything new. It's a full blown conspiracy with a lot of backers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_conspiracy_theories

 

[Cheebs]

I saw this stuff on the today show this morning and it was on CNN a few times while I had it on in the background. This story is spreading fast. That cant be good news for Obama.

 

[APF]

Is there a GAF mod / admin who isn't an Obama supporter? Should I ask this in the "Official thread?"

 

[Dr_Cogent]

We've still done jack shit about Gang violence, drugs, etc. in our lesser areas. Things aren't all dandelions and butterflies. And I've said I don't personally agree with all of his statements (A lot of them I do). His Aids statement, while idiotic, is definitely not anything new. It's a full blown conspiracy with a lot of backers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_conspiracy_theories

Who cares if it's not anything new? So? Does that make what he said any less ridiculous?

Who said anything was all dandelions or butterflies?

Much of the problems that these neighborhoods have are largely tied to the fact that there is little money in these areas. Unfortunately, the problems are circular. I don't think there is active thought all the time that since people are of a certain color - they immediately get treated differently.

 

[siamesedreamer]

However, you can click on any political thread on GAF and you can see outright contempt, profanity spewing, and much worse towards anyone slightly conservative. And what do you know, no bans. You can say "Fuck you, republican assholes, I hope you all die"...

Enron is making a factual statement.

 

[harSon]

I saw this stuff on the today show this morning and it was on CNN a few times while I had it on in the background. This story is spreading fast. That cant be good news for Obama.

It's just going to open a giant can of worms for everyone. They've already got Mccain's "Spiritual guide", Rod Parsley, plastered on the news.

 

[masud]

edit: by being African American isn't American culture your own?

:lol No.
Anyway can you realy blame a black person over 50 for having views like these? Just let them die out and then we can get on with the koombya shit.

 

[APF]

Parsley is only a garnish to the real main course smear campaign we'll see against McCain.



masud: if you live in America, how is American culture not your own?

 

[harSon]

:lol No.
Anyway can you realy blame a black person over 50 for having views like these? Just let them die out and then we can get on with the koombya shit.

He was born in '41, pretty sure he's not all that fond of white folk :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

That's what you get when the lion share, or all of them perhaps, of people who have control over a site all lean heavily to the liberal left.

.

Explains the religion bashing as well.

 

[Aurvant]

He was born in '41, pretty sure he's not all that fond of white folk :lol

Wouldn't that constitute as racism? or at the very least be the groundwork for separatist ideals and rhetoric?

 

[harSon]

Wouldn't that constitute as racism? or at the very least be the groundwork for separatist ideals and rhetoric?

While I definitely don't agree with it, it's no different then Mccain's hate for the Vietnamese.

 

[Riskbreaker23]

its amazing how what mccain pastor said is getting less attention than this

 

[harSon]

its amazing how what mccain pastor said is getting less attention than this

I'm not...

 

[Jtrizzy]

I'm amazed either is getting any coverage. Especially this. Obama has gotten a free ride from the media since day one. ZERO scrutiny from the media till most of the primaries are over.

Barack got a free ride from the press at the expense of Hillary, just like McCain got a free ride at the expense of Romney.

 

[thefro]

This is Obama's pastor now

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-moss_bd17feb17,0,6761518.story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY6qjeJ5mG8

 

[deadatom]

guilt by association is for fucking retards... so obama.. goes to a church.. where a guy preaches there... oh no!! now he shares all the beliefs of that ONE guy that preaches there.

now lets see.. hillary knows bill who knew al gore who ran against and met with bush jr whos great grand pappy prescot bush helped the nazis.. thus helped hitler.. now im waiting for hillary to denounce hitler.. she hasnt denounced him yet!! thus.. hillary must = hitler?


see thats what i mean... GUILT BY ASSOCIATION IS FOR FUCKING RETARDS.. PEOPLE HAVE THIER OWN MINDS... unless you are on the right that is... they are a bunch of sheep

 

[Dr_Cogent]

guilt by association is for fucking retards... so obama.. goes to a church.. where a guy preaches there... oh no!! now he shares all the beliefs of that ONE guy that preaches there.

now lets see.. hillary knows bill who knew al gore who ran against and met with bush jr whos great grand pappy prescot bush helped the nazis.. thus helped hitler.. now im waiting for hillary to denounce hitler.. she hasnt denounced him yet!! thus.. hillary must = hitler?


see thats what i mean... GUILT BY ASSOCIATION IS FOR FUCKING RETARDS.. PEOPLE HAVE THIER OWN MINDS... unless you are on the right that is... they are a bunch of sheep

:lol

Your example is pure shit.

Furthermore, you define yourself by who you surround yourself with.

 

[Cheebs]

Part of me hopes if he wins that he invites Wright to lead the nation in the prayer they always do when they take the oath of office just to freak people out. :lol

 

[Cooter]

Guilt by association is for fucking retards... so obama.. goes to a church.. where a guy preaches there... oh no!! now he shares all the beliefs of that ONE guy that preaches there.

now lets see.. hillary knows bill who knew al gore who ran against and met with bush jr whos great grand pappy prescot bush helped the nazis.. thus helped hitler.. now im waiting for hillary to denounce hitler.. she hasnt denounced him yet!! thus.. hillary must = hitler?


see thats what i mean... GUILT BY ASSOCIATION IS FOR FUCKING RETARDS.. PEOPLE HAVE THIER OWN MINDS... unless you are on the right that is... they are a bunch of sheep

Have you tested to check if your IQ cracked 80?

 

[CHYME]

:lol

Your example is pure shit.

Furthermore, you define yourself by who you surround yourself with.

You can't surround yourself with one person. It's literally impossible.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

You can't surround yourself with one person. It's literally impossible.

No, but one person can be part of that circle that helps define the surroundings.

 

[CHYME]

No, but one person can be part of that circle that helps define the surroundings.

Obama's pastor

Farakhan OBAMA Michelle Obama

Osama Bin Laden (had tea with him and George Bush at Camp David)

Fuck, he's surrounded.