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[harSon]

Ridiculous. So you believe the one about the secret labs in Africa that we funded to create AIDS so we could kill off Black people in our country?

Or that the government invented crack? Sorry but drug addiction goes back a little further than the history of our country, and it has nothing to do with race.

I will give you that they have done a horrible job of rehabilitation in prison and investing in poor black neighborhoods, but I will not believe the other conspiracy theories.

Bullshit. Coke was legal in the United States until "studies" showed that it aggravated Blacks to attack Whites.

 

[AmishNazi]

Bullshit. Coke was legal in the United States until "studies" showed that it aggravated Blacks to attack Whites.

That was 100 years ago it doesn't matter now. The past is the past.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#Controversy

Not racially charged right? With regards to the video(s), his comments about the government creating AIDS or pumping drugs into the inner city aren't racially charged right?

How is that racially charged? That's his opinion (talking about the trip with Farakhann).

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Bullshit. Coke was legal in the United States until "studies" showed that it aggravated Blacks to attack Whites.

I am interested in reading this story. Got a link?

 

[Jtrizzy]

There have been stories about this guy for months now. Answer these questions for me J.

1. Why hasn't the media kill Hilary with the question for why see has released the papers that explained what she did as first lady when her husband was in the white house?

Last debate--IIRC Tim Russert asked about the taxes, library donations etc.


2. Why hasn't the media hit Hilary with the question for why her and Bill haven't released the list of people that donated to the Clinton library?

3. Why hasn't the media hit McCain with his racist language about people from Vietnam or that has Vietimese heritage?

Because the media are a bunch of fucking idiots, who up till now have given Barack and McCain free rides.

4. Why hasn't the media hit McCain with huge amounts of questions about the pastors that's backing him? Good question. I guess because everyone already knows that the Pastors on the right are bat shit insane and no one (other than the others who are batshit insane) listen to or respect them.

I don't want to quote myself, but I posted earlier that Barack has gotten a free ride at the expense of Hillary, just as McCain got one at the expense of Romney. Both of whom would be far better Presidents (If I had to choose between McCain or Romney, thankfully this is not the case) in my opinion.

 

[Tamanon]

I am interested in reading this story. Got a link?

From Wiki, link there also

By the turn of the twentieth century, the addictive properties of cocaine had become clear to many, and the problem of cocaine abuse began to capture public attention in the United States. The dangers of cocaine abuse became part of a moral panic that was tied to the dominant racial and social anxieties of the day. In 1903, the American Journal of Pharmacy stressed that most cocaine abusers were “bohemians, gamblers, high- and low-class prostitutes, night porters, bell boys, burglars, racketeers, pimps, and casual laborers.” In 1914, Dr. Christopher Koch of Pennsylvania’s State Pharmacy Board made the racial innuendo explicit, testifying that, “Most of the attacks upon the white women of the South are the direct result of a cocaine-crazed Negro brain.” Mass media manufactured an epidemic of cocaine use among African Americans in the Southern United States to play upon racial prejudices of the era, though there is little evidence that such an epidemic actually took place. In the same year, the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act outlawed the use of cocaine in the United States. This law incorrectly referred to cocaine as a narcotic, and the misclassification passed into popular culture. As stated above, cocaine is a stimulant, not a narcotic.

 

[Jtrizzy]

wow, you guys just aren't gonna stop, are you? just face it, it's a dead issue. the guy's not even with the church any more. no one else cares, and neither should you.

look on the bright side... you still got Rezko

He retired ONE MONTH AGO, dude.

 

[AmishNazi]

From Wiki, link there also

Jesus stop bringing up the past, we're so far past that now.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I thought the conspiracy theory he was espousing was that the Government introduced crack into poor black neighborhoods in the 80's. I don't doubt the story you posted that happened at the turn of the century.

 

[mckmas8808]

There have been stories about this guy for months now. Answer these questions for me J.

1. Why hasn't the media kill Hilary with the question for why see has released the papers that explained what she did as first lady when her husband was in the white house?

Last debate--IIRC Tim Russert asked about the taxes, library donations etc.

And in that same debate wasn't Obama asked about his thoughts and feeling about Minister Louis Farhakaan? Wouldn't you say Farhakaan is a lot worst than J. Wright?

 

[thefro]

Clearly this proves Obama is racist and hates white people. You can't fool us Obama!

 

[Tamanon]

I thought the conspiracy theory he was espousing was that the Government introduced crack into poor black neighborhoods in the 80's. I don't doubt the story you posted that happened at the turn of the century.

Considering nobody actually knows how crack came into being, his theory is as good as anyone else's, it just mysteriously appeared and spread faster than any drug had previously.

 

[AmishNazi]

Considering nobody actually knows how crack came into being, his theory is as good as anyone else's, it just mysteriously appeared and spread faster than any drug had previously.

Ding ding ding.

Try wrapping your mind around how a drug dealer figured out that if you cut coke with baking soda and cook it that it becomes at least twice as addictive.

 

[Jtrizzy]

And in that same debate wasn't Obama asked about his thoughts and feeling about Minister Louis Farhakaan? Wouldn't you say Farhakaan is a lot worst than J. Wright?

in December Mr. Wright's church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. "His depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening," Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest."

Sure, but Wright obviously agrees with a lot of what Farakhaan says.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Clearly this proves Obama is racist and hates white people. You can't fool us Obama!

No one is saying that, guy. I'm saying that Obama should have gone to another church if he's so against divisive rhetoric. In case you hadn't noticed his entire campaign revolves around this notion.

 

[harSon]

Clearly this proves Obama is racist and hates white people. You can't fool us Obama!

I heard he sought a voodoo doctor in an attempt to extract the whiteness out of him.

 

[tekumseh]

He should absolutely reject and denounce him. If you do not share the same views as someone, you certainly don't have them as your fucking pastor - you find a new church or just stop going. You don't go to listen to them on a weekly basis. I know I wouldn't.

I'm a Democrat. My pastor and most of my congregation are clearly Republicans. Does this mean that I cannot get my spiritual guidance from them, while rejecting their political overtones? The acceptance of what is contained in the bible, TO ME, comes across as universal, and is spoken with one voice, which indicates that religion is an INDIVIDUAL relationship with God. I, therefore, cannot get to heaven either because of, or IN SPITE OF, you. On the basis of this wholly singular, individual interpretation, I should recognize how to live my life. Your interpretation may, and will, be different than mine. That does not mean we agree in lock step on everything...or anything for that matter. It's PERSONAL. I contend that the same thing applies to the Senator and Rev. Wright. Because he finds spiritual guidance from Wright, it does not imply a tacit endorsement of every position that Wright holds.

Perhaps a biblical reminder about separating the wheat from the chaff is important to point out here.

It's possible to take what you find as good from something while abandoning what you disagree with...

 

[mckmas8808]

Sure, but Wright obviously agrees with a lot of what Farakhaan says.

So you are saying this....

Obama ---> J. Wright --------> Farrakhan


So in essence Obama = (or agrees with) Farrakhan?

 

[NullPointer]

It's possible to take what you find as good from something while abandoning what you disagree with...

Religious practice in a nutshell, right there.

 

[AmishNazi]

Religious practice in a nutshell, right there.

Sadly anymore this isn't a widespread practice and more and more buy crap wholesale.

 

[Jtrizzy]

So you are saying this....

Obama ---> J. Wright --------> Farrakhan


So in essence Obama = (or agrees with) Farrakhan?

Of course not. I think Obama became close to Wright for political purposes when his Chicago political career was in his infancy. I do think Wright proably agrees with Farakaan on many issues however.

I'm going to go have some beers, thanks for the interesting discussion. Other than the people who called me an idiot, I think it was a solid debate.

 

[NullPointer]

And I think I have to agree with Jtrizzy on at least one point.

I'm a big Obama supporter and have personally helped enlighten many people about his positions because all they know comes from conservative radio shows. When they have somebody talking to them beyond the spin and media ratings extravaganza drama blipverts, they actually find a compelling, reasonable, and fair minded candidate in Obama.

But this Trinity Church thing? I think it has the potential to do a LOT of harm. For one thing its very easy to summarize it to say that Obama has for a long time, and still does, attend a black-only church that backs Farrakan and makes divisive speeches against whites. Now the truth is more nuanced than that by far - but thats how it will be easily packaged, distributed and digested to those looking for any reason to keep Obama from winning. Catapult the propaganda and all that.

Obama needs to very clearly address this, and let people know where he's coming from. Saying "I don't agree with a lot of what he says" doesn't cover it, and it won't defuse this issue. It'll just keep growing, and getting circulated, and will shut people off to his message.

As my mom put it to me - would you attend a church that espoused these ideas? I had to say "no". Why does Obama say yes?

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Obama and his mother.

One of the main facts that people seem to forget. Anyone with half a brain can see why Obama don't share views with his former pastor.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

lol. It isn't like Obama's pastor is going to be advising him if he becomes president. Same goes with McCain.

EDIT-What I meant was in the context of what his pastor said.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Obama needs to very clearly address this, and let people know where he's coming from.

Obviously...but the question is can he make it believable given the fact that he has basically been institutionalized into this particular church?

 

[Dark Octave]

Grasping for anything and completley blown out of proportion. I knew they would do their best to try and cheat Obama out of this election. Any way, any how, right? If this becomes the excuse that haults Obama from winning the presedency, I feel sorry for America, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd feel sorry for being an American. It's sad that not even a half black man is good enough to be president of the United States.

For one thing its very easy to summarize it to say that Obama has for a long time, and still does, attend a black-only church

And there is no such thing as an all black church. I wonder what the ratio of black and white attendees is at Bush's church. I wonder what it was for Regan's church.

 

[BotoxAgent]

who cares anymore, really. I'm sick of all this back and forth rhetoric.

 

[AmishNazi]

And there is no such thing as an all black church. I wonder what the ratio of black and white attendees is at Bush's church. I wonder what it was for Regan's church.

Sadly even though they all spout WWJD, most churches are still segregated.

 

[NullPointer]

Grasping for anything and completley blown out of proportion. I knew they would do their best to try and cheat Obama out of this election. Any way, any how, right? If this becomes the excuse that haults Obama from winning the presedency, I feel sorry for America, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd feel sorry for being an American. It's sad that not even a half black man is good enough to be president of the United States.



And there is no such thing as an all black church. I wonder what the ratio of black and white attendees is at Bush's church. I wonder what it was for Regan's church.

Hey - *I* know that. I've followed information on this guy for some time now. The thing is, thats how it will be presented to people, and if those people don't do anything to research this themselves, thats what they will believe.

 

[CHYME]

Separation of Church and State my ass.

 

[APF]

I can't believe this thread has actually gotten crappier since the last time I read it.

 

[harSon]

It actually got better.

 

[Dark Octave]

Hey - *I* know that. I've followed information on this guy for some time now. The thing is, thats how it will be presented to people, and if those people don't do anything to research this themselves, thats what they will believe.

I agree.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Ding ding ding.

Try wrapping your mind around how a drug dealer figured out that if you cut coke with baking soda and cook it that it becomes at least twice as addictive.

Why do you assume that a drug dealer did it? A chemist may have done it.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

...Obama needs to very clearly address this, and let people know where he's coming from. Saying "I don't agree with a lot of what he says" doesn't cover it, and it won't defuse this issue. It'll just keep growing, and getting circulated, and will shut people off to his message.

As my mom put it to me - would you attend a church that espoused these ideas? I had to say "no". Why does Obama say yes?

LTTP, but I just heard the speech with the whole USKKKofA stuff and what not. This is the first thing I asked myself, and I came up with the same answer as you. No matter what the hardcore supporters think, this is a megaton. I was easily going to step across party lines to vote for BO, but now it's not so easy.

To think a future President of the United States would have sat in church ever Sunday for 20 years and listened to this rhetoric makes me feel a little ill.

 

[harSon]

LTTP, but I just heard the speech with the whole USKKKofA stuff and what not. This is the first thing I asked myself, and I came up with the same answer as you. No matter what the hardcore supporters think, this is a megaton. I was easily going to step across party lines to vote for BO, but now it's not so easy.

To think a future President of the United States would have sat in church ever Sunday for 20 years and listened to this rhetoric makes me feel a little ill.

I'm assuming you're a Republican?

 

[Cheebs]

Obama and his mother.

One of the main facts that people seem to forget. Anyone with half a brain can see why Obama don't share views with his former pastor.

I wonder how long till religious people try to play up the fact Obama's mother and grandparents (who helped raise him) were all very proud atheists(or as Obama pretty nicely puts it secularists). I bet if they can't get the muslim aspect from his father's side of the family to stick they'll go after the atheist side of the family of his mothers side.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

I'm assuming you're a Republican?

"...I was easily going to step across party lines to vote for BO..."

Gee, what gave it away?

 

[AmishNazi]

To think a future President of the United States would have sat in church ever Sunday for 20 years and listened to this rhetoric makes me feel a little ill.

Yeah because it was this same sermon every day. Media bought all his tapes that he had for sale and they find two sermons and we hear them regurgitated and regurgitated.

Why do you assume that a drug dealer did it? A chemist may have done it.

I've always thought that.

Thing is there has always been a difference on how different drugs are handled. Just look at how quick the crystal meth explosion was crushed compared to crack. Look at how coke, crack and heroin laws differ. ESPECIALLY when it comes to sentencing.

 

[harSon]

"...I was easily going to step across party lines to vote for BO..."

Gee, what gave it away?

Then I'm assuming you voted for Bush?

 

[masud]

And this is why you don't go to church.

 

[Tamanon]

Obama blogs about this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

But of course, this will never be enough, there's nothing he can do that would be enough for some people

 

[ColdDeckEd]

No one is saying that, guy. I'm saying that Obama should have gone to another church if he's so against divisive rhetoric. In case you hadn't noticed his entire campaign revolves around this notion.

First of all his campaign revolves around the notion of cleaning up the the current adminstrations mistakes.

Secondly, for alot of people Church isn't all about religion (funny concept, I know). There's also a strong community element involved, especially with big churches. You seem pretty knowledgable when it comes to politics, so let me ask you what kind of message would it send to the community/constituants Obama is trying to court, if he just leaves the church/community because he did not agree 100% with his pastor. Put everything in context now. We are talking about when Obama was still on the rise, before this Presidential election. It probably would have derailed his congressional campaign. Now while you may call this selling out, Obama would definately not be the only candidate that has done so (McCain reaching out to Falwell and Robertson after calling them agents of intolerance for example).

This is all purely my opinions btw, I'm not claiming to know the inner workings of Obama's mind or anything, I'm just speculating.

 

[harSon]

Obama blogs about this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html



But of course, this will never be enough, there's nothing he can do that would be enough for some people

That should be the end of the thread and subject but theres always going to be those grasping for ammunition like you said.

 

[maximum360]

Obama blogs about this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html



But of course, this will never be enough, there's nothing he can do that would be enough for some people

Now let's see how much playtime this gets from Hannity, Scarborough (sp?), and others. I doubt it gets even a mention. Nor will we hear from them about McCain's ties to inflammatory religious leaders (instead Hannity was fawning over McCain's military service last night on Fox). Fair and balanced indeed.

Obama needed to put that out there though. Hopefully the media picks up on it and also makes note of the same issues facing McCain. This isn't to drag McCain into the fray as much as it is to level the playing field on this debate and get this back to the issues.

 

[APF]

It must be heart-wrenching to hear Obama categorically reject comments you agree with like that. I think if I were one of the people here who were spinning for the accuracy of Wright's words I'd be having a crisis of faith re: my commitment to a candidate who was so far apart ideologically. Very sad.

 

[backbreaker65]

all ready posted

 

[AmishNazi]

It must be heart-wrenching to hear Obama categorically reject comments you agree with like that. I think if I were one of the people here who were spinning for the accuracy of Wright's words I'd be having a crisis of faith re: my commitment to a candidate who was so far apart ideologically. Very sad.

I don't have to agree with either's whole ideal system or opinions to respect both of them. Neither do I I have to believe everything that comes out of someone's mouth just because I respect them.

 

[harSon]

It must be heart-wrenching to hear Obama categorically reject comments you agree with like that. I think if I were one of the people here who were spinning for the accuracy of Wright's words I'd be having a crisis of faith re: my commitment to a candidate who was so far apart ideologically. Very sad.

You really do try to hard. I said I agreed with much of what Jeremiah Wright said but also profoundly disagreed with a hefty portion.

 

[Tamanon]

Now let's see how much playtime this gets from Hannity, Scarborough (sp?), and others. I doubt it gets even a mention. Nor will we hear from them about McCain's ties to inflammatory religious leaders (instead Hannity was fawning over McCain's military service last night on Fox). Fair and balanced indeed.

Obama needed to put that out there though. Hopefully the media picks up on it and also makes note of the same issues facing McCain. This isn't to drag McCain into the fray as much as it is to level the playing field on this debate and get this back to the issues.

Actually word on the street is that he's doing a response *ON* Hannity and Colmes tonight.