Support NeoGAF

[Mister Wolf]

When u play first person games with the occulus do you have the helmet control reticle movement or do you still map that to your keyboard and mouse?

 

[Wallach]

Other than:

* Wider FOV
* Longer Cables
* Breakaway Box
* Front Camera
* Included Motion Controls

You are absolutely correct.

The Maximum PC editor (Jimmy Thang) after trying both HMDs at CES seemed to think the Rift had a slightly wider FOV, and the Vive had a slightly taller vertical FOV. I don't suspect there is a particularly meaningful difference in FOV unless HTC makes further changes to the optics or the displays (which if they are actually planning to ship in April seems pretty unlikely).

 

[Herr Starr]

Other than:

* Wider FOV
* Longer Cables
* Breakaway Box
* Front Camera
* Included Motion Controls

You are absolutely correct.

All but one report from CES, at least that I've read, says that the FOV is slightly wider on the Rift and slightly higher on the Vive. As for your other points, they are pretty much only needed for room tracking, hence what I said.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Other than:

* Wider FOV
* Longer Cables
* Breakaway Box
* Front Camera
* Included Motion Controls

You are absolutely correct.

• FOV isn't really wider, it's just different. Circular FOV compared to Oculus Rift's rectangular. Rift's FOV is wider, Vive's is taller.
• How long are the Vive Pre's cables? Oculus Rift's are 4 meters (around 12 feet). I have a DK2 which has a 10 foot cable, I sit/stand around 5-6 feet from my computer and it's fine for that.
• Breakaway box is a disadvantage, not an advantage. An extra box that has to lay on your floor somewhere with extra cables needed. Oculus got rid of their breakout box after DK1.
• Front camera is only used for chaperone mode, nothing else. Very useful for that, though.
• Rift has included XBox One controller, which works with far more VR games and demos than the motion controls Vive has. Games made for motion controls in VR are great, but are rather limited. The Vive's controllers do have normal controls that can be used, but they aren't as good as an actual gamepad: far less buttons, instead of analogue sticks or d-pads it has those steam-controller trackpads.

 

[Dreamwriter]

When u play first person games with the occulus do you have the helmet control reticle movement or do you still map that to your keyboard and mouse?

Depends on the game - there are very few first-person shooters in VR if that's what you're asking about, because first-person shooters suck in VR. Most games are going to use gamepad anyways, using a keyboard/mouse that you can't see can be challenging.

 

[dark10x]

A lot of it sounded overblown to me. I'm sure it's hard, but that's your job - figure stuff out. And that IPD adjustment thing looks pretty simple - the Sony HMZ-t1 had something similar. Yet they made that sound the most difficult engineering thing ever. It's just a rack. The fabric confuses me too. Why even bother covering the front? The presenter talked about comfort,but the part that actually rests on your face is foam - the material is mostly just cosmetic (inner lining is useful though)

Fabric could prove very important. Lease fogging is a HUGE issue with DK2 and I suspect this fabric plays a role in preventing it. The only way around it on DK2 (partially) is to shove small pieces of cloth around the lenses.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

The Maximum PC editor (Jimmy Thang) after trying both HMDs at CES seemed to think the Rift had a slightly wider FOV, and the Vive had a slightly taller vertical FOV. I don't suspect there is a particularly meaningful difference in FOV unless HTC makes further changes to the optics or the displays (which if they are actually planning to ship in April seems pretty unlikely).

Yep. This is the problem with relying on impressions before people really have time to truly compare and analyze the hardware -- they read one guy say one thing and portray it as a definitive benefit (in this case I'm assuming the Gamespot guy because I haven't read anyone else mention a Vive FOV advantage)

 

[Herr Starr]

Depends on the game - there are very few first-person shooters in VR if that's what you're asking about, because first-person shooters suck in VR. Most games are going to use gamepad anyways, using a keyboard/mouse that you can't see can be challenging.

Yeah, first person shooters aren't a great fit for VR because there are so many control challenges involved, and the way we've been taught that movement should work in such games is incredibly alien to our brain once we're planted directly inside the game world. It's hilarious once you realize how unrealistically someone moves in, say, Call of Duty.

There are some people out there who will tell you how awesome Half Life 2 is in VR, among other things. They are lucky SOBs, because that kind of gameplay is going to make the majority of players out there sick.

 

[Betta Lines]

When u play first person games with the occulus do you have the helmet control reticle movement or do you still map that to your keyboard and mouse?

As other have said, it depends on the game. Many early VR demos allowed mouselook, headlook, and right stick look all at the same time, and there was a lot of experimentation of various combinations, and many variations on the 'bounding box' idea used in many Wii and Move FPS titles, separating the weapon from the head look, partially combining it, and so on. There was no obvious 'best control scheme'.

Ultimately, traditional first person game controls do not work in VR. You can do it, but it is a bad experience. A small portion of the population have no problems with it, but the majority will feel discomfort, ranging from very mild to full-blown nausea. The best way to play a traditional FPS in VR is to simulate playing it on a TV in a virtual living room, or at a desk. If you want to play a true VR shooter without discomfort, developers are going to have to be very creative with how they present such a thing. I'd consider the traditional FPS genre dead for VR.

 

[family_guy]

So delay of Vive = what you see is what you get.
Delay of Oculus controls = Time can lead to improvement.

Both are targeted for 2nd quarter orders. Hard to have it both ways.

One is reported to release in April. The other the second half of 2016. That's not the same.

 

[Turin Turambar]

• FOV isn't really wider, it's just different. Circular FOV compared to Oculus Rift's rectangular. Rift's FOV is wider, Vive's is taller.
• How long are the Vive Pre's cables? Oculus Rift's are 4 meters (around 12 feet). I have a DK2 which has a 10 foot cable, I sit/stand around 5-6 feet from my computer and it's fine for that.
• Breakaway box is a disadvantage, not an advantage. An extra box that has to lay on your floor somewhere with extra cables needed. Oculus got rid of their breakout box after DK1.
• Front camera is only used for chaperone mode, nothing else. Very useful for that, though.
• Rift has included XBox One controller, which works with far more VR games and demos than the motion controls Vive has. Games made for motion controls in VR are great, but are rather limited. The Vive's controllers do have normal controls that can be used, but they aren't as good as an actual gamepad: far less buttons, instead of analogue sticks or d-pads it has those steam-controller trackpads.

Vive's cable is 5 mts.

I suppose we can give the Vive the edge in "scale room VR", even if Rift also can do it, thanks to a mix of longer cable, camera with chaperone system and slightly wider fov offered by the lighthouses.

 

[Helznicht]

• Breakaway box is a disadvantage, not an advantage. An extra box that has to lay on your floor somewhere with extra cables needed. Oculus got rid of their breakout box after DK1.
• Front camera is only used for chaperone mode, nothing else. Very useful for that, though.
• Rift has included XBox One controller, which works with far more VR games and demos than the motion controls Vive has. Games made for motion controls in VR are great, but are rather limited. The Vive's controllers do have normal controls that can be used, but they aren't as good as an actual gamepad: far less buttons, instead of analogue sticks or d-pads it has those steam-controller trackpads.

Breakout Box is for me an advantage. Everytime I have to connect/disconnect the HMD I have to crawl under my desk. A box to plug into siting on my desk is ideal to me.

On the Front Camera, I am totally surprised at this response. This board is full of comments how VR is not ready because it totally seperates you from real word. Here is a link back at the push of a button. Plus HTC says it can be used for other purposes. I think its more important than "just for room scale"

I own 8 Xbox (one and 360) controllers, and the PC wireless adapters already.

One is reported to release in April. The other the second half of 2016. That's not the same.

I think most feel April is not really feasible for VIVE, Maybe I am wrong, we will see.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Yeah, the emails don't include that, the only place to see your estimated ship date is on the order screen when you first order.

I never got that and still got no email, what do I do.

 

[family_guy]

I think most feel April is not really feasible for VIVE, Maybe I am wrong, we will see.

I think it gets delayed again also, but that's not going to be good for HTC. Being first to market and cheaper gives CV1 the advantage unless like I said before, the Vive gets some amazing exclusive software to make the wait worthwhile.

 

[mrklaw]

Fabric could prove very important. Lease fogging is a HUGE issue with DK2 and I suspect this fabric plays a role in preventing it. The only way around it on DK2 (partially) is to shove small pieces of cloth around the lenses.

I agree, I was mainly questioning the need for the external fabric. Makes sense on the inside

 

[mrklaw]

Anyone know how the OR store/launcher will work? Eg if you have some games bought through their storefront, and others from steam, will they all show up in the launcher?

 

[Felix Lighter]

I never got that and still got no email, what do I do.

I haven't received my email either. Don't worry you are not the only one. I'm pretty confident that I'm good though. My order is viewable in order history using the guest method and they updated it with pricing and tax.

 

[backbreaker65]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/685887939973218304
Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016

 

[Ovek]

Got this from Oculus support re missing emails etc...

Hello everyone,

This message is being sent to all customers that have support tickets that have not yet been responded to.

Thank you so much for your patience while we work through the queue. As you might imagine, the launch of preorders for the Oculus Rift has us quite busy in Oculus Support, and we’re working through the incoming ticket volume as quickly as possible.

We’ve resolved a couple of issues that are being reported to us and I’d like to provide you with an update:

Confirmation email not received

This issue has been resolved and we are currently resending all of the confirmation emails again. If it is determined that your shipping address or your VAT number are incorrect, you may also receive an email asking for you to access your order to update the information. This process will take a number of hours. If by the morning of January 9th at 9am PST, you have not received your confirmation email, please let us know.

No price visible on Order History page

This has been resolved for all customers. This was due to our tax system not being able to calculate taxes during the initial crush of traffic during launch. We’ve already updated the Order History of all customers to reflect the correct pricing. You can visit your Order History page by heading to https://shop.oculus.com/history and following the information on the page.

Please note that our agents are not able to provide shipping estimates. The estimate provided on the preorder page when you first started your preorder is the month you should expect your shipping. As we get closer to shipping your Oculus Rift, the estimate will become more granular and closer to your exact ship date.

Again, thank you for your patience and please know that we are doing everything we can to get to you as soon as possible.

Kevin Crawford
Head of Customer Support
Oculus VR

 

[DouglasteR]

Shipping info corrected !

But still no confirmation email.

 

[bigwinnerx]

If Vive is getting Best in Show based on their ability to not have people bump into couches, which is a problem I don't need OR to solve, good on them? Still not interested.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016

It sounds like you're accepting the awards on their behalf lol. Do you have a speech prepared too?

 

[NomarTyme]

Got this from Oculus support re missing emails etc...

Got the same email yesterday. Bah still no confirmation email though.

 

[Trace]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to
https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/685887939973218304
Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016

I get the point but you should word your stuff so you don't sound like a corporate PR agent.

Oculus is better at sit-down VR, Vive is better at room-scale ATM. Assuming you have an empty 15x15 room for the Vive like the demo rooms, it's more impressive. We know this already.

 

[Steel]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/685887939973218304
Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYTDcmoUkAAkeQ9.jpg[/im][/QUOTE]

>.>

Been a long time since I've seen a post scream astro-turfing this much.

 

[Bookoo]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

That's because roomscale and motion tracking make the experience really interesting and different.

I really was leaning Vive first, but after the delay I knew I would probably order whatever is up first. However with the ship dates in March and the Vive in April I may switch it up depending on price.

Roomscale and even just motion controls are much more interesting to play with and even demo for people. Showing someone a VR game in the Rift will be cool, but I think it's easier for non-gamers to get more excited about stuff that they can walk around in and touch stuff. I got in to one of the HTC Bus Tours and the best thing I tried was TiltBrush (VR painting app)

I am hoping Oculus Touch releases early in the second half of 2016, but I think if it was going too they would have just said Q3 :\

 

[backbreaker65]

It sounds like you're accepting the awards on their behalf lol. Do you have a speech prepared too?

Thank U, Thank U, Thank U, on behalf of HTC and Valve now that you seen and experience our vision and you now that you know it is unparalleled and unmatched keep your pre-orders at your own peril.

 

[Animator]

Canadian rift buyers what was the total price with tax and shipping?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

There's nothing new from Oculus at CES (with regards to hardware). They've been demoing CV1 and various prototypes of it with Oculus Touch since E3, where it won a bunch of awards.

 

[Trace]

Canadian rift buyers what was the total price with tax and shipping?

Oculus Rift ($849.00 ) x 1 = $849.00

Taxes, Surcharges and Fees: Applicable shipping, taxes and duties will be added to and charged in your payment upon shipment of the unit.

Order Total: $914.00

Make of that what you will.

 

[Animator]

Oculus Rift ($849.00 ) x 1 = $849.00

Taxes, Surcharges and Fees: Applicable shipping, taxes and duties will be added to and charged in your payment upon shipment of the unit.

Order Total: $914.00

Make of that what you will.

So does the 914 include shipping?

Also did it charge your card now or will when it ships?

 

[tokkun]

Oculus is better at sit-down VR,

I don't think this is as clear-cut as you state it. We haven't seen the consumer version of the Vive yet, and even if it has no changes over the new dev kit version the pass-through camera seems like it would be valuable even when sitting down.

 

[hammertomb]

So does the 914 include shipping?

Also did it charge your card now or will when it ships?

When it ships.

 

[Trace]

So does the 914 include shipping?

Also did it charge your card now or will when it ships?

It'll charge your card for a dollar now and then reverse it. So yea, when it ships. No harm in putting a preorder down now and cancelling it later if you want.

I believe the $914 includes shipping but not the other taxes.

Why it costs $64 in shipping to go across the border I have no idea though. I could take a bus from Vancouver to San Francisco for double the price.

I don't think this is as clear-cut as you state it. We haven't seen the consumer version of the Vive yet, and even if it has no changes over the new dev kit version the pass-through camera seems like it would be valuable even when sitting down.

Custom panels vs off the shelf, wider FoV vs taller. Also from what we've heard the screen door effect is less on the Oculus. It also includes the custom headset. I'm just basing this off of the CES demo impressions we've heard, if the consumer one comes out and has a better screen and better headphones I'm fine with switching my opinions.

 

[Super Rookie]

How do you go about making an oculus account?
Never saw the option when I pre-ordered

 

[Herr Starr]

I don't think this is as clear-cut as you state it. We haven't seen the consumer version of the Vive yet, and even if it has no changes over the new dev kit version the pass-through camera seems like it would be valuable even when sitting down.

Vive's biggest problem when it comes to seated gaming is ironically one of the things that the Rift has received the most criticism for: the controllers. Valve can't guarantee developers that their users will have a decent classic controller, only that they'll have the motion controllers. Those really aren't very well suited to seated gaming.

By including the Xbox One controller, Oculus has made it really easy for developers to create a strong, unified experience when sitting down, instead of having to plan for keyboard and mouse support as well.

 

[Animator]

It'll charge your card for a dollar now and then reverse it. So yea, when it ships. No harm in putting a preorder down now and cancelling it later if you want.

I believe the $914 includes shipping but not the other taxes.

Why it costs $64 in shipping to go across the border I have no idea though. I could take a bus from Vancouver to San Francisco for double the price.



Custom panels vs off the shelf, wider FoV vs taller. Also from what we've heard the screen door effect is less on the Oculus. It also includes the custom headset. I'm just basing this off of the CES demo impressions we've heard, if the consumer one comes out and has a better screen and better headphones I'm fine with switching my opinions.

Thanks. Just placed an order. Hopefully a bunch of people will cancel their preorder so I can get one before June

 

[artsi]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/685887939973218304
Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016

So, as the CEO of Oculus, would you say that the competitor's product is better? Even if it's not in many ways? You'd be a bad CEO.

His job is to sell his product.

 

[backbreaker65]

So, as the CEO of Oculus, would you say that the competitor's product is better? Even if it's not in many ways? You'd be a bad CEO.

His job is to sell his product.

No shit Sherlock.

 

[Bsigg12]

That's because roomscale and motion tracking make the experience really interesting and different.

I really was leaning Vive first, but after the delay I knew I would probably order whatever is up first. However with the ship dates in March and the Vive in April I may switch it up depending on price.

Roomscale and even just motion controls are much more interesting to play with and even demo for people. Showing someone a VR game in the Rift will be cool, but I think it's easier for non-gamers to get more excited about stuff that they can walk around in and touch stuff. I got in to one of the HTC Bus Tours and the best thing I tried was TiltBrush (VR painting app)

I am hoping Oculus Touch releases early in the second half of 2016, but I think if it was going too they would have just said Q3 :

I don't actually expect the Vive to hit the April release and if it does it'll only be like 10k units. Considering devs just started getting the Pre dev kit a couple weeks ago, and we still haven't seen the consumer version of the Vive with it supposedly launching in 3 months, I have a hard time believing it'll be ready.

Mobile World Congress is at the end of February and HTC will have a press conference there to announce their 2016 product line. I could see that being when they show the consumer version and announce price and pre-orders.

 

[Dreamwriter]

On the Front Camera, I am totally surprised at this response. This board is full of comments how VR is not ready because it totally seperates you from real word. Here is a link back at the push of a button. Plus HTC says it can be used for other purposes. I think its more important than "just for room scale"

Not really much of a link back to the real world, you see tron-like blue silhouettes of people and things inserted into your VR view. Really great for room-scale, otherwise only useful if someone near you is handing you a drink or you need to pick something up. As for "other uses", all they've mentioned is the ability to maybe make use of the blue shapes in games - the example given was putting a keyboard or mouse into a control panel in the same place as your actual keyboard/mouse.

 

[tokkun]

Custom panels vs off the shelf, wider FoV vs taller. Also from what we've heard the screen door effect is less on the Oculus. It also includes the custom headset. I'm just basing this off of the CES demo impressions we've heard, if the consumer one comes out and has a better screen and better headphones I'm fine with switching my opinions.

What I'm saying is that even if we assume that the Rift will have better A/V quality, that does not necessarily equal a better seated experience. The camera could be useful enough from a ergonomics standpoint to outweigh it. Even when seated, I'm sure people will want to be able to take a drink of water or just scan what's going on in the room, especially if you live with other people or pets, and it would be nice to be able to do that without removing the headset.

Vive's biggest problem when it comes to seated gaming is ironically one of the things that the Rift has received the most criticism for: the controllers. Valve can't guarantee developers that their users will have a decent classic controller, only that they'll have the motion controllers. Those really aren't very well suited to seated gaming.

By including the Xbox One controller, Oculus has made it really easy for developers to create a strong, unified experience when sitting down, instead of having to plan for keyboard and mouse support as well.

I don't really follow your line of reasoning. Are you concerned that games that support both headsets won't work with a controller if you have the Vive? Or are you concerned that Vive-exclusive games will not support controllers?

I don't think the former is a real concern. As it is, I play some PC games with the DS4 today, and obviously that was not bundled with my PC or any others. I'm sure you will be able to use the DS4 or XB1 controller with the Vive in any game that also works with the Oculus. It may be true that Vive-exclusive games won't support a controller, but it's not like you could play such games on the Oculus anyway, so...?

 

[Herr Starr]

I don't really follow your line of reasoning. Are you concerned that games that support both headsets won't work with a controller if you have the Vive? Or are you concerned that Vive-exclusive games will not support controllers?

Neither. I'm concerned that Vive-exclusive games can't support controllers, or at least not unless there's an alternative control method available. Vive developers will be far more tempted to just use the motion controllers since every single customer has them, and that means creating a control scheme that will not be suitable for seated play.

 

[Lady Gaia]

So, as the CEO of Oculus, would you say that the competitor's product is better? Even if it's not in many ways? You'd be a bad CEO.

His job is to sell his product.

The product didn't happen in a vacuum. As CEO he was directly involved in influencing the direction of the product design and almost certainly believes strongly in the decisions they made. The situation is drastically different from a PR person whose job it is to paint a rosy picture without any real influence over the product.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Palmer isn't CEO, his title is "Founder". Brendan Iribe is CEO.

 

[Bsigg12]

Palmer isn't CEO, his title is "Founder". Brendan Iribe is CEO.

It's funny how many people tie the CEO tag to Palmer though he actually isn't.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

It's funny how many people tie the CEO tag to Palmer though he actually isn't.

If Palmer was CEO everyone at Oculus would be wearing flip flops and forced to attend Brony conventions

 

[Clydebink]

That boy Palmer Luckey keeps yapping about his systems the best and all the while publications and consumers after playing both at CES is giving it to

https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/685887939973218304
Thank you again to @engadget and @ces for awarding the Vive "Best of CES" http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/presenting-the-best-of-ces-2016-winners/ … #CES2016

Forget VR, there is a self-driving, flying car listed in that article.

 

[backbreaker65]

VR is Coming.

 

[Bsigg12]

https://twitter.com/techradar/status/685854947901108228
The HTC Vive Pre took home our Best in Show Award at #CES2016 http://buff.ly/1ZhfT6k

Just out if curiosity, what's the point of posting this or the other one in the Rift preorder thread when there is a Vive vs Rift CES impressions thread?