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OECD study showing which countries have the smartest University students.

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Very interesting article about which countries produce the smartest students and a ranking of major universities.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37649892
Higher education has a strong sense of hierarchy.
And high-profile international league tables are a very public form of this pecking order.
While these might measure a whole range of factors - from reputation and staff ratios to research output - what they do not compare is the ability of students who have been taught in these universities.
But the OECD has now published test results comparing the ability of graduates in different countries.

And it shows a very different map of higher education than the ranking tables, which are dominated by US and UK universities, such as Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge and UCL.
The OECD tested literacy skills among graduates - and the high-flyers were not in the US or UK, but in Japan and Finland.
These figures, based on test results rather than reputation, show a very different set of nationalities from the usual suspects.

The OECD's top 10 highest performing graduates
Japan
Finland
Netherlands
Australia
Norway
Belgium
New Zealand
England
United States
Czech Republic

None of the countries in the top places make much of an appearance in conventional university rankings.
But while the names of US Ivy League universities are familiar around the world, Norwegian and Australian universities seem to be turning out more capable graduates.

In the QS World University Rankings, there were 32 US universities in the top 100, but only one from New Zealand.
But graduates from New Zealand are higher achieving than their US counterparts.

Oxford was named the world's top university in the Times Higher Education rankings
There is also the question of cost - and the return on investment in higher education for both students and taxpayers.

The Dutch university system, with low fees, outperforms the United States and England, which charge much higher tuition fees.

Scotland and Wales are not included in this OECD measure, but Northern Ireland is in 14th place.

It casts a light too on how an efficient school system might not translate into success in higher education.
South Korea and Singapore, both high achievers at school level, are below average in the graduate rankings.
And what does it mean for the value of university degrees in countries such as Italy, Spain and Greece, who are languishing at the bottom of these graduate test results?

Japan's graduates were the highest performing in OECD tests
Andreas Schleicher, the OECD's education director, says the results show ability levels can "vary hugely among people with similar qualifications".
They might all have degrees, but "there are major differences in the quality of higher education".
"When it comes to advanced literacy skills, you might be better off getting a high school degree in Japan, Finland or the Netherlands than getting a tertiary degree in Italy, Spain or Greece," says Mr Schleicher.

The OECD rankings were based on tests of students, rather than factors such as university reputation
These OECD test results may be completely different from conventional university rankings, but the two sets of findings are not incompatible, says Ben Sowter, director of the QS World University Rankings.

While the OECD has compared standards across national higher education systems, the university rankings are focused on an elite group of individual universities.
Mr Sowter says if every university in the US was measured in rankings, it would show "they have a share of the worst as well as the best".
The US has a highly polarised education system, but that is not apparent from a ranking system that focuses only on the top.

QS World University Rankings 2016-17
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
Stanford University
Harvard University
University of Cambridge
California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
University of Oxford
University College London
ETH Zurich
Imperial College London
University of Chicago

The success of a country such as Finland in the quality of its graduates could owe as much to its school system as its universities, Mr Sowter says.
And it is likely to be "harder to run a bad university in Finland than in the US".

But Mr Sowter says the OECD findings highlight a longstanding question about priorities for higher education.
Should countries invest in making sure there is a good overall standard - or should they focus on cultivating a few world-leading institutions?
There would be a good economic case for arguing for a consistently high standard across all universities rather than a landscape of peaks and valleys.
 

therealjay

Neo Member
I'm not sure what it's trying to say? US probably does have 30 of the best 100 universities in the world.

Does not mean that the average of all of the thousands of universities in the country are going to outperform another countries entire group.
 
All this shows is which country's students are better at taking tests, which has proven to be a far less useful and more bullshit way of measuring intelligence since it measures nothing of practical importance. Why would you ever use standardized testing to measure the success of colleges over the actual results and achievements of the graduates?
 
Weird indicator.

Honestly, the UK is *so* strong for academic institutions given its size. The Russell Group is incredible for research. Really impressive.


*this ramble is slightly unrelated to the exact topic of this thread, but as mentioned this seems pretty arbitrary*
 

ccbfan

Member
I'm amazed that US even made top 10 with the amount of trash for profit colleges we have, those must be destroying our average.
 
Well, I can't see in the article how they chose students to compare.

New Zealand, for example, according to wikipedia only has 8 universities. There are over a hundred in England. If you limited it to Russell Group universities, the results are probably completely different.

Presumably the same would happen if you only looked at Ivy League graduates from the US.
 
Well, I can't see in the article how they chose students to compare.

New Zealand, for example, according to wikipedia only has 8 universities. There are over a hundred in England. If you limited it to Russell Group universities, the results are probably completely different.

Presumably the same would happen if you only looked at Ivy League graduates from the US.
If they didn't test a random sample of the overall student population it is meaningless.
 
If they didn't test a random sample of the overall student population it is meaningless.

There's still the issue of differing education systems in general. A huge problem in US education is that college is considered pretty much the only viable path to success and not going to college is generally looked down upon in the middle class. This leads to a much higher percentage of our population going to colleges, even if they're not really suited for higher education. Even if some of those people drop out, many will just look for the easiest path to graduation which leads to a higher percentage of graduates in the population, but with the same intelligence curve (and thus, more dumb graduates)
 

Lamel

Banned
I actually don't see much point in this study. Too variable across majors, different universities etc.
 
There's still the issue of differing education systems in general. A huge problem in US education is that college is considered pretty much the only viable path to success and not going to college is generally looked down upon in the middle class. This leads to a much higher percentage of our population going to colleges, even if they're not really suited for higher education. Even if some of those people drop out, many will just look for the easiest path to graduation which leads to a higher percentage of graduates in the population, but with the same intelligence curve (and thus, more dumb graduates)
That does make sense, it is definitely somewhat flawed - percentage of people attending university has to be taken into account.

University is pushed in the UK too much i(and often as 'the path to success') in the same way.
 
I actually don't see much point in this study. Too variable across majors, different universities etc.

Yep. This also plays a problem in the standardized testing in general (which is a fairly worthless and antiquated practice in most cases and isn't really indicative of much of anything unless you do absolutely terribly) since what is emphasized in the test might not be important to many college students. For instance a lot of standardized tests seem to have big vocabulary sections, but a lot of that is for worthless words nobody ever uses casually, and seems to be more oriented towards (in the US) english majors than say Engineers (even though we have our own jargon)
 

milanbaros

Member?
Weird indicator.

Honestly, the UK is *so* strong for academic institutions given its size. The Russell Group is incredible for research. Really impressive.


*this ramble is slightly unrelated to the exact topic of this thread, but as mentioned this seems pretty arbitrary*

Yeah. It is a bit weird. That ranking list shows the UK has 4 in the top 10, all within 60 miles of each other.

If any country is polorised, it must be the UK.
 
Yeah. It is a bit weird. That ranking list shows the UK has 4 in the top 10, all within 60 miles of each other.

If any country is polorised, it must be the UK.
Yeah, though the whole of the Russell Group and a few others are strong.

There are still issues however - I'm at Cardiff which is the only Russell group in Wales. Certain parts of the country are definitely stronger than others.
 
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