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[Galactic Fork]

I'm still hoping for things to improve. He's only 4 hours in. In lots of SRPGs, the challenge is rarely that great in the first 4 hours. Maybe the last 71% is a lot better?

At least the plot isn't so bad, cause if the only other really good thing is the fan service of all the FF monsters battling, then it's not really worth more than the roughly 15 hours of gameplay it's looking like it will be.

They really need to make more games with difficulty levels.

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

Very disappointing about "teh kiddy" but this IS the DS so it isn't terribly surprising.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Ninja Gaiden, Mana, Lunar, Chibi Robo... it's almost impossible to count the number of once awesome franchises the DS has ruined. :/

Lunar I'll give you, Mana wasn't the DS's fault, but Ninja Gaiden? It hasn't ruined it yet has it (did I miss big news)?

I don't know much about Chibi Robo so I can't comment.

 

[Linkup]

Lunar I'll give you, Mana wasn't the DS's fault, but Ninja Gaiden? It hasn't ruined it yet has it (did I miss big news)?

I don't know much about Chibi Robo so I can't comment.

sarcasm



i hope

 

[duckroll]

How's the music by the way? Are they using a lot of lower quality versions of the original FFXII music or are they mostly new tunes?

There are a lot of remixes, but to be honest even though I own the FFXII OST, I don't remember that much of the music. It's pretty good though, I mean no one really expects CD quality music from the DS right?

 

[Pureauthor]

IIRC, a lot of FFXII's music merely served to build up the atmosphere. It was good at that, but not really hummable, nor made to stand on it's own.

 

[Bebpo]

IIRC, a lot of FFXII's music merely served to build up the atmosphere. It was good at that, but not really hummable, nor made to stand on it's own.

Aka, just how every Sakimoto soundtrack has ever been.

Great music in the heat of the moment, and some like BoFV make a good listen every once and a while, but I'll be damned if I can remember how a single Sakimoto song actually sounds off the top of my head.

 

[Pureauthor]

Since when did One Piece have zombies? (I assume that's a zombie.)

 

[FateBreaker]

Great music in the heat of the moment, and some like BoFV make a good listen every once and a while, but I'll be damned if I can remember how a single Sakimoto song actually sounds off the top of my head.

With FFXII I agree. But some of his earlier stuff was pretty darn humable. "Lost Forest" from Legaia 2 is, after all, possibly my favorite videogame track ever.

 

[Cedille]

As for music, FFXII RW has only 4 new compositions. Plus, since 3 of them rely on the motives (thematic melody of a few bars) so much, I have to admit even they are something rehashed too. I have an impression that the RW music is just two or three steps lower than the FFXII soundtrack. However, for a DS game, it still would be a solid effort.

 

[Jonnyram]

Aka, just how every Sakimoto soundtrack has ever been.

I guess it depends how much you hear the music in any given game. FFXII was unique in that it didn't have specific battle theme music, except for bosses, so most of the music was written to be less prominent. Sakimoto's music for Gradius V was excellent and very memorable, however. I also remember the main Ivalice theme that he's used in most (all?) the Ivalice games so far.

 

[john tv]

I've heard of putting yourself of media blackouts to not spoil a game, but this is something else

Yah, I'm not a big fan of FF anymore. It kinda lost its value to me when Square started shitting out 5 or 6 of them a year. Anyway, I guess I'll skip this one too. RTS is probably my least favorite genre of all.

 

[Troidal]

Like FFX-2? Yikes...

Not like I was expecting the game to be great, but it's too bad to hear it didn't exceed expectations　:/　

 

[vareon]

Here are some more impressions:

- Game is entirely missions based. The only times you visit "towns" is event driven and you only get to walk around a small area and you can't go back.

- You create and select a "deck" of 5 summon types before going into missions. When a mission starts you get 2 random summons per character (when there's a 5 person party, you get more if there are less characters) from the deck.

- You can summon more from summoning circles if there are any. You can also level up your summons during missions using AP at summoning circiles. You can only do this in missions.

- Game's okay, it's fun but it's really shallow. If you were to compare the game with Slime Morimori or Chocobo DS it stakes up really well. It's basically a FF monsters battle royale fanservice game. If you were to compare it with a real FF game, it doesn't compare all. Knowing what to expect is important.

- I've completed 1 story mission in Chapter 4 and all the available optional missions at the moment and the mission clear % is at 29%. Clock is around 4+ hours. I hope the game isn't as short as it's looking to be.... ^^;

Those parts hurt me badly.

 

[Amir0x]

Ninja Gaiden, Mana, Lunar, Chibi Robo... it's almost impossible to count the number of once awesome franchises the DS has ruined. :/

To be fair, I don't think DS can claim the award of 'killing Mana'

 

[Magicpaint]

To be fair, I don't think DS can claim the award of 'killing Mana'

Yeah, I think the PS2 might have to take that award. SD4 was the final nail on the coffin.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, I think the PS2 might have to take that award. SD4 was the final nail on the coffin.

Or even GBA, with Sword of Mana. I mean there's a lot of shitty Mana games to choose from, and lots of platforms to pick as well! :lol

 

[Magicpaint]

Or even GBA, with Sword of Mana. I mean there's a lot of shitty Mana games to choose from, and lots of platforms to pick as well! :lol

True, but Sword of Mana was a remake, even though it sucked.

SD4 was the first true installment since SD3 on SNES and it sucked huge donkey balls. I've never seen a company handle a series in such manner where they deliberately try to ruin it by not giving the fans what they want. Just thinking about the Mana series drives me crazy.

 

[Amir0x]

i didn't play SD4 but i suspect I won't ever be trying either

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Most of the talent back then either quit, were fired, or left because they spent forever and a day to make a game and had to release it unfinished (Xenogears Team).

This isn't really true at all. Much of the design staff for the NES/SNES games is actually still at SE. For instance, 4 of the 5 designers/planners for Secret of Mana are still there (well, one of them transferred to the PR/advertising department, so 3 out of 5 if you don't count him)

 

[duckroll]

Okay, I cleared Chapter 5, and I felt it was really good. Both in terms of story and in terms of gameplay it picks up quite a bit. I've noticed that if you do free missions in areas they're usually harder than a normal mission so it was rather interesting when I did one just to check out a new area which had no missions in it.

The final story mission in chapter 5 was of decent challenge and probably the first time in the entire game that I couldn't just spam my way through the entire mission. It was fitting too because due to the story elements I think I would have *really* been disappointed if the mission was a push over.

I think the main problem with the gameplay is that the controls are really, really unsuited for specific strategy that RTS games call for, so most of the time you just don't feel like thinking strategically because specific controls is such a hassle. When I actually tried, it was possible and it does make a big difference if you sort out your troops and split them so they're arranged in a better formation. For certain missions it also helps to have smaller squads in different places at the same time. I just wish the controls didn't suck so much, and considering the DS' input options it really should be a non-issue. :/

P.S. Keep in mind when I say there's good storytelling, I'm also a big fan of FFX-2.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

On the other hand, Enix seems to be the side of SE that actually takes the DS more seriously.

I'm not sure you can distinguish that way between the two "sides" of the company anymore. Revenant, Chocobo DS and FF3 DS are all produced by "Enix" producers.

 

[Jonnyram]

Well I just read that Think & Feel were the team in charge of Monster Summoner (which I hated), so consider my hopes deflated severely. Maybe I'll be impressed if I have a suitably negative feeling before playing

 

[Pureauthor]

I suppose it's nice to hear that things improve as time goes on.

Still... disappointing, though.

 

[Meier]

I've heard of putting yourself of media blackouts to not spoil a game, but this is something else

I honestly had no clue either.. I'm kinda bummed. I love RTS', but I thought this was just a typical 2D FF game w/ the Gambit system included. Even still, I can't wait to try it out.

 

[duckroll]

Well I just read that Think & Feel were the team in charge of Monster Summoner (which I hated), so consider my hopes deflated severely. Maybe I'll be impressed if I have a suitably negative feeling before playing

I've never actually played Monster Summoner. The screens do look a lot like RW though, what's the game really like?

 

[modkennylaine]

So, in terms of how it holds up...
Is FFXII:RW : FFXII as FFT: FFTA?

Because that's what all these impressions make it out to be. And if that's the case... I liked XII's characters, but not enough to sit through another FFTA.

 

[Diablos54]

So, in terms of how it holds up...
Is FFXII:RW : FFXII as FFT: FFTA?

Because that's what all these impressions make it out to be. And if that's the case... I liked XII's characters, but not enough to sit through another FFTA.

I think it's more FF X:FFX-2, which is fine by me.

 

[duckroll]

Man, the controls for this game really suck ass. Especially further in the game where the missions actually get harder. It has possibly one of the most retarded control schemes for a RTS game ever.

- There's no way to keep your units in formation.
- There's no way to move in formation.
- The map is isometric so you have tons of sprites overlapping on sprites making precise selection impossible unless you do it ONE UNIT AT A TIME.
- You can't rotate the map. And sometimes that would REALLY HELP when shit is BLOCKING YOUR VIEW.
- After painstakingly selecting the precise squad you want, once you issue any command the entire selection is deselected.
- There's no hotkey to select all units of the same type.
- Summoning gates are big pieces of floor on the map that take up valuable real estate, and tapping on them selects them. So that's a patch of ground you cannot tell units to "move" to it if you control it because tapping on it will either select it and deselect all your units.

I could go on and on and on. Whoever designed this game either has no idea how a RTS is supposed to work, doesn't care, or both.

 

[John Harker]

Sounds like Lost Magic.

Did members of the Taito team work on this game, since SE bought Taito?

Anyway, I liked LM but the game was haaaaard. Mainly because of the shoddy controls.
But, I'll give this one a shot, since it seems improved over shoddy LM implementation.

 

[jj984jj]

Sounds like the controls for HoM are much better, how is the AI? Do characters wander sometimes or stop attacking enemies?

Sounds like Lost Magic.

Did members of the Taito team work on this game, since SE bought Taito?

Anyway, I liked LM but the game was haaaaard. Mainly because of the shoddy controls.
But, I'll give this one a shot, since it seems improved over shoddy LM implementation.

Garakuta Studio made Lost Magic.

 

[duckroll]

Sounds like the controls for HoM are much better, how is the AI? Do characters wander sometimes or stop attacking enemies?

Sure, when the melee units are STUCK behind the range units which aren't moving because they're able to attack the enemy and there's no space for the melee units to advance forward! GODDAMNIT S-E! >_<

The camera is totally too low for the action too. Most of the time you really can't see what's really going on, it's just a lot of animation clustered in one place. Heck sometimes the enemies wander into my huge mass of units and literally disappear. Since they die, they never come out either! :lol

 

[jj984jj]

I don't know if you can zoom in or out in HoM, but I know you can press L or R to rotate the camera and along with the d-pad you can press a button on the touch screen to move around the map as well.

 

[Y2Kev]

Maybe the DS just isn't right for RTS. Screen isn't big enough/res isn't high enough?

 

[duckroll]

Maybe the DS just isn't right for RTS. Screen isn't big enough/res isn't high enough?

Or maybe, DEVELOPERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH?!?!

 

[Y2Kev]

Or maybe, DEVELOPERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH?!?!

Well, maybe, but what you described would be tough to get around. If the units are so large (and any smaller and I bet they'd be tough to see) so that they overlap that it prevents you from selecting individual units...

...but I haven't seen anything at all of HoM so I can't comment.

 

[Haunted]

Heck sometimes the enemies wander into my huge mass of units and literally disappear. Since they die, they never come out either! :lol

:lol That sounds awesome.

 

[duckroll]

Well, maybe, but what you described would be tough to get around. If the units are so large (and any smaller and I bet they'd be tough to see) so that they overlap that it prevents you from selecting individual units...

...but I haven't seen anything at all of HoM so I can't comment.

The solution would be simple. Raise the camera angle. This isn't a turn based SRPG, there's zero reason for the camera to be the way it is. A higher angle would mean you can seperate the units even when they're very close together. I actually play RTS games, so these things that should come naturally but don't really piss me off.

 

[iifu]

Most. Depressing. Thread. Ever.

 

[Y2Kev]

The solution would be simple. Raise the camera angle. This isn't a turn based SRPG, there's zero reason for the camera to be the way it is. A higher angle would mean you can seperate the units even when they're very close together. I actually play RTS games, so these things that should come naturally but don't really piss me off.

Eesh, I didn't even think of that. Most RTSes have that camera angle (higher, above).

 

[jj984jj]

...but I haven't seen anything at all of HoM so I can't comment.

Aside from the AI issues it sounds a lot better. The controls don't sound like a problem.

One major problem with this form of A.I. is not all your units will follow the same path to fight a foe/gather materials. For some peculiar reason, some of your units will end up moving somewhere else that you never told them to go and will end up staying there until you manually point and click where to move the unit.

The status of each of your units is cleverly displayed at the bottom of the stylus screen. Where green icons are shown to indicate the status of your unit that ranges from perfect to okay to near death. Since a vast majority of battles are fast paced and require quick action, you’ll often find yourself losing some units without even knowing it! You can speed up the flow of battle by holding the B button and can rotate the camera with the L and R buttons. Should any of your units incur heavy damage, you can build a healing tower (at least until you’ve been given the ability to create wizards) within the airship and move your units near the airship to cure. Talk about convenient. Your main units can also equip mana spirits to aid in battle! In time, you’ll acquire the ability to equip and make use of the game’s various mana spirits and, get this, summon God Beasts, too!

Perhaps the biggest problem in Heroes of Mana, aside from the retarded A.I. and inability to have your units automatically move to a certain area when spawned, that can serve as a handicap for some people is its fluidity. Though the game’s early missions are pretty easy, the latter parts of the game turn out to be a bit more challenging and automatically require that you be fluent in knowing what to do and how fast you can do it. Particular missions have a time limit attributed to them, so time is absolutely everything and should not be taken lightly. You can take part in some practice missions to help train yourself and improve your speed; but if you’re the kind of person who likes to take his time when playing an RTS to defeat your enemy, Heroes of Mana may not be for you.

http://www.siliconera.com/index.php/2007/03/20/the-truth-about-heroes-of-mana/

By the sounds of it S-E should have had Brownie Brown and whoever made this game work together, even if the gameplay ended up even more similar in both titles at least they would not have outstanding flaws to hinder the game. HoM always was much higher on my list than FFXII:RW and by the sounds of it HoM might be the only game I try.

 

[Y2Kev]

Reading that indicates to me that Square-Enix (or whoever is developing their games now) has like no clue what makes RTS games work. No ability to rally/set a rally point and retarded paths?

I mean...really, that's like fundamental to RTS gameplay....rallying especially on a small screen where you don't want to be going back and forth.

 

[jj984jj]

You can only make 25 units or so at a time in HoM I believe, so it's not really an issue of them all crowding up in front of the ship when made. The AI issues in HoM are small inconveniences really.

Not any kind of fundamentally flawed controls that really seem to make FFXII:RW sound annoying to play. Plus anything that's like FFX-2 cannot be good unless it is the battle system... makes me fear what Toriyama will do in the future.

 

[duckroll]

makes me fear what Toriyama will do in the future.

FFXIII! Where all summons are Transformers!

 

[Fady K]

FFXIII! Where all summons are Transformers!

Hell, id take it if its better than most of plain games S-E makes these days.

 

[Matsuno]

FFXII RW was born like a good game, but where is the real team of FFXII? Are true the news that Product division 4 has been divides?

 

[Ananaz]

FFXIII! Where all summons are Transformers!

But before that, there will be Vagrant Story 2, directed by Toriyama and characters designed by Nomura!
Actual development will be handled by Cavia.

Spoiler

At this rate, I could really see it happening

 

[Chris Michael]

So much for FFXIIRW not being an RTS game. :lol

This sucks so hard... all this time I was expecting some exploration with towns and such. After this I'm dreading any future Square DS projects...

Wonderful World, you're next...

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Topics like this make me question if Square Enix even has a QA division anymore. Even XII, which has gameplay I really like, has a number of small (in scale yet major in impact) flaws that any balance-aware tester should of been able to easily identify and proposed quick and relatively easy solutions to. Especially if they had ever played a MMO before; same here for anyone familar with a strategy game.

Compared to the absolute months and hundreds of hours that go into testing and fine tuning some western games, seeing such obvious flaws in Sqaure Enix games lately is a little sad. It does little for any optimism for their next MMO.

 

[Magicpaint]

Sounds like they weren't sure what they wanted to do with this game (so they half assed the FFXII system and fused it with half baked RTS gameplay). The controls seem like a major turn off for me as I just don't enjoy games with terrible controls. It's a real shame what this game turned into, it had so much potential looking at videos and screen