Support NeoGAF

[Captain Glanton]

Okay my turn!
I'm 5'9" 160lbs @ 10% bodyfat

The following things below are my goals...

- I want to get to 175 lbs by June and stay under 13% bodyfat.
- I want huge thighs and a bigger butt (don't laugh) that'll make my girl jealous.
- add 2 inches to my arms (biceps/triceps)
- and get traps like Terrell Owens (the football player on the Cowboys).

(For visual reasons)

How do I get traps like this?

I'll add just a few things to what Mr. Burns--I mean Snrub--said. To develop that ass, try front hack squats. Get on that hack squat machine, turn around, and plant your face in the padding. Now do low-rep, heavy sets. Between that and heavy squats, I'm pretty sure I've developed permanent "squatter's ass," aka rock hard bubble butt.

To build awesome arms [2" is probably too much, agreed] hit lots of dips and pullups. Do your barbell curls too, but dips and pullups will stress your body a lot more, which will lead to more growth. Also, decline skull crushers with the EZ curl bar work well.

I hate upright rows. They make my wrists hurt and crack. I think I have good traps, esp. mid-level, and it's entirely from my deadlifting and rowing.

 

[mckmas8808]

I used to do upright rows but there is so much talk about them causing injuries I have stayed away from them for a couple years. I have heard people on both sides of the argument about whether they cause injuries or not, but neither has really convinced me. At this point I am just thinking better to be safe than sorry. How many sets (and reps per set) do most of you do for shrugs?

Right now I'm lifting 40lbs (dumbbells) each arm about 20 reps for 5 sets.

I gained ten pounds in eight weeks (and counting) with no significant bodyfat increase (abdominal outline still visible). I ate and eat. 3/4-one full gallon of milk a day, plus protein supplements and meat in most meals. You HAVE TO EAT. I get around 200g of protein and 3000 cals total a day.

How much do you weigh? And how often should I do squats?

 

[Uncooked]

Power shrugs for traps, better than anything else

Did the trick for me. You'll be using weight thats more than you can deadlift (will need straps) and the overload to your traps is great.

I read through this and I think I understand the gist of it. The only question I had was with bringing it back down, it says that you should not reset, only touching the bars/rack at the end. Let me just see if I understand the whole exercise though. You start with the bar just above the knees, with knees and back slightly bent. You then straighten up and go straight up into the shrugging motion. Now here is where I see a slight problem. You are pulling up a large amount of weight quickly, and then releasing it somewhat fast given the high weight. It seems like there would be a ton of momentum on the way down, and it wants you to stop just above the knees. Seems like this could wreak havoc on the lower back, but I might not be understanding the exercise properly. I am going to try it out today, but will use lower weight just in case.

 

[-viper-]

I don't want a big butt.

Should I continue doing stiff-legged deadlifts, squats and lunges? Which one of these excercises has the greatest emphasis on the glutes?

I also take it that the weight of dumbbells you use will be key in the glutes getting bigger or not, am I right?

I only have a pair of dumbbells which can go up to 20kg (10x2).

 

[Captain Glanton]

I don't want a big butt.

Should I continue doing stiff-legged deadlifts, squats and lunges? Which one of these excercises has the greatest emphasis on the glutes?

I also take it that the weight of dumbbells you use will be key in the glutes getting bigger or not, am I right?

I only have a pair of dumbbells which can go up to 20kg (10x2).

It all depends on how you do the exercises. If you do walking lunges [as opposed to stationary] with a long stride, that will hit the backs of your legs and your 'backside' pretty hard. Stationary lunges [where you're essentially marching in place] hit the fronts of your thighs more than the backside. When I squat it hits my backside pretty hard, but that's because I squat with a wide stance and I do it powerlifter-style [squatting back, not down; it's a bit complicated to explain without a demonstration]. That's probably not most people's experience, however.

If your d-bells only go up to 22 lbs each, then I wouldn't worry about putting on "too much" muscle.

 

[scorcho]

to add on to what others have said - the key to meaty arms are your triceps. (weighted) dips, close grip bench press and overhead tricep extensions will give your arms nice thickness.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Right now I'm lifting 40lbs (dumbbells) each arm about 20 reps for 5 sets.



How much do you weigh? And how often should I do squats?

Was at 175. Had lost weight over the summer. Now sitting close to 185--aiming for 195.

Squat three times a week. Beginners can consistently make gains. Buy Basic Barbell Training--best initial investment you can make.

 

[kozmo7]

I am just started back getting into shape myself; lost definition is my problem.

I was wondering what sort of dumbbells do you all use or would like to recommend? The pair I had weren't anything too special and worked out great, problem is I think I'd need a Tetanus shot if I wanna continue using em. :lol

Was just curious if any of you would have a great set in mind, price doesn't matter too much.

 

[APF]

Hang-clean and press is another good exercise for trap and overall shoulder development.

 

[Brendonia]

Lots of good advice in here from what I can tell. I was one of those "split" guys, working chest and tri's twice a week, back and bi twice, then legs once a week. So so stupid, it just doesn't work at all. I also didn't start lifting legs until about 4-5 months ago, which is just preposterous. Now I have a completely different routine that I've been doing that I got from the book "New Rules of Lifting" which I enjoyed and had some nice plans and exercise explanations in it. I'm basically trying to work on the Hypertrophy workouts right now. What I'm doing is the following:

I primarily do two upper body and two lower body workouts per week, the exercises stay the same, but the reps, weight, and rest time change for each one. For the upper body days I do the following exercises:

Superset of Incline dumbbell press and cable seated row
Superset of dumbbell shoulder press and wide grip lat pulldown
Superset of close-grip bench press and high pull
Swiss ball crunches
I usually throw in some more exercises at the end. Like today I did hammer curls and tricep extensions, whatever I feel like at the end.

For Lower body I do the following:

Squat
Deadlift Shrug
Superset of Bulgarian Split Squat and Step up (this is the most horrible thing ever and leaves me as a mess)
Reverse crunch
I'm usually too tired from all of that to do any more lower body lifts so I call it a day. The lower body workouts are usually quick but exhausting.

Now where it switches up is that you alternate by workout to do either 5x5 w/ 90 seconds of rest, 4x10 with 60 seconds of rest, or 3x15 at 30 seconds of rest. It's been working really well so far and there are workouts for Hypertrophy, Fat Burning, and Strength building in the book. It's a lot to keep straight but once I got serious about lifting (needed something to throw myself into after a bad breakup) I realized I needed a change so I did it. As long as you have a chart to keep track of everything it's not that hard.

Anyway, there's another idea for you guys out there who might want a full routine to do that seems to work pretty well. If you don't know what any of those exercises are I can explain them in detail. Happy lifting!

 

[Wraith]

Well, I don't know what the hell happened to the price of dumbbells/weight plates. I went in to Dick's today expecting to pay the .39-.49 cents/lb. that I've paid in the past and was met with a sign for a whopping .99 cents/lb. WTF? I guess the weak dollar is hitting us in weight-lifting too somehow?

Anyhow, I'm looking into picking up a pair of dumbbell handles and just buying weight plates to put on them. Does anyone have any idea what the max weight on a pair of dumbbell handles generally is? Look at these, for instance:

http://www.amazon.com/Weider-Chrome-Spin-Lock-Dumbbell-Bar/dp/B000N9FFXK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1196553953&sr=1-10

No max weight listed! Does this mean "Hey, you couldn't possibly exceed the weight limit on these" or does it mean that I need to buy something far more expensive, like this:

http://www.bigfitness.com/oldumhan.html

 

[Captain Glanton]

Well, I don't know what the hell happened to the price of dumbbells/weight plates. I went in to Dick's today expecting to pay the .39-.49 cents/lb. that I've paid in the past and was met with a sign for a whopping .99 cents/lb. WTF? I guess the weak dollar is hitting us in weight-lifting too somehow?

Anyhow, I'm looking into picking up a pair of dumbbell handles and just buying weight plates to put on them. Does anyone have any idea what the max weight on a pair of dumbbell handles generally is? Look at these, for instance:

http://www.amazon.com/Weider-Chrome-Spin-Lock-Dumbbell-Bar/dp/B000N9FFXK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1196553953&sr=1-10

No max weight listed! Does this mean "Hey, you couldn't possibly exceed the weight limit on these" or does it mean that I need to buy something far more expensive, like this:

http://www.bigfitness.com/oldumhan.html

1 dollar a pound is robbery. I actually had that Weider set several years ago. The limit is going to be with how many plates you can fit on each end, not the strength of the metal; they ain't that long. I think you could have done 2 25lb plates on each side, but that might be my memory going foggy. Make sure you're cognizant of the difference between standard and Olympic plates, too.

Frankly, I think that joining a gym is the better value. By the time I outgrew the plates/bars I'd bought for home, I was only breaking even with the money I'd have spent on a gym membership for the same time period, where I'd have gotten a better workout for sure.

I am just started back getting into shape myself; lost definition is my problem.

I was wondering what sort of dumbbells do you all use or would like to recommend? The pair I had weren't anything too special and worked out great, problem is I think I'd need a Tetanus shot if I wanna continue using em. :lol

Was just curious if any of you would have a great set in mind, price doesn't matter too much.

Those Weider dumbbells aren't bad, and they will serve the purpose, but as I said, I just think that going to a gym--even or maybe preferably a 'bad' one--will be the more effective and cost efficient way to go over the long haul.

 

[Ace 8095]

I just finished my third week of Rippetoe's and I am really enjoying it. I made a thread a few months ago about wanting to get larger arms. Well I've learned alot about weight lifting since then. I've increaded my calories, while cutting down on all excess sugars. Now I only drink 2% milk and water. I've put on about 3 pounds in these three weeks, and it all seems to be muscle. I feel better than I ever have and have more confidence. I think you should add the Rippetoe program to the OP captain. There is so much good info to be found. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224 If not I will start my own Rippetoe thread.

 

[demon]

Anyone here do mostly body-weight training? I didn't think it was even possible to bulk up using only body-weight exercises, but I had no idea that that's basically what gymnasts do, and some of them are fuckin ripped.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=512003

 

[Wraith]

1 dollar a pound is robbery. I actually had that Weider set several years ago. The limit is going to be with how many plates you can fit on each end, not the strength of the metal; they ain't that long. I think you could have done 2 25lb plates on each side, but that might be my memory going foggy. Make sure you're cognizant of the difference between standard and Olympic plates, too.

Frankly, I think that joining a gym is the better value. By the time I outgrew the plates/bars I'd bought for home, I was only breaking even with the money I'd have spent on a gym membership for the same time period, where I'd have gotten a better workout for sure.

Trust me, I was pretty shocked to see the prices myself. Even the second-hand sports stores are 60-70 cents/lb. these days, at least in Cincinnati. Anyway, if that's the case then I'll go for one of the 20" olympic sets. I'm aware of the difference between olympic/standard, but I would have settled for standard if the cost was going to be 25% of the olympic handles.

The reason I wont join the gym is because I wont go. I've basically come to terms with the fact that keeping it in-house is going to cost me more and, because funds aren't infinite, limit my progress but I don't think I have the drive to make that trip to the gym. Even if I do have the drive right now, I'm 90% sure that I will not when I have met my weight goal which I estimate is 2-3 months away. I'm hoping that having the weights around here will make me more likely to use them after I've met my goal.

 

[demon]

I'm the same as far as home vs gym. Having to leave my apartment, get in my car, drive to the gym, find a place to park, and deal with everything you have to in a gym that you don't have to in your own home is just too much for me to do 3+ times a week. It would absolutely kill my motivation and make it much harder to incorporate exercise into my daily life. Especially when dealing with crappy weather. I've got a bike, pull-up bar, dip station (sorta), a bench, db bars, bb and EZ bar, and a bunch of plates in my apartment. It's good enough for me.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I just finished my third week of Rippetoe's and I am really enjoying it. I made a thread a few months ago about wanting to get larger arms. Well I've learned alot about weight lifting since then. I've increaded my calories, while cutting down on all excess sugars. Now I only drink 2% milk and water. I've put on about 3 pounds in these three weeks, and it all seems to be muscle. I feel better than I ever have and have more confidence. I think you should add the Rippetoe program to the OP captain. There is so much good info to be found. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224 If not I will start my own Rippetoe thread.

I looked at the BB.com thread. There's some interesting stuff there. I'd be happy to write up something on it for the OP in the next few days [no promises on the time frame]. You are free to make your own threads as you see fit, but one of my major reasons for making this thread was to keep all the fitness, etc. discussion in one place. That way people looking for Rippetoe stuff can see other discssions, and vice versa.

Also, the BB.com thread also had a link to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSN3f-a3Ok&NR. It's called a front squat, and I can't put into words the level of amazing happening in that video.

 

[Wraith]

I just finished my third week of Rippetoe's and I am really enjoying it. I made a thread a few months ago about wanting to get larger arms. Well I've learned alot about weight lifting since then. I've increaded my calories, while cutting down on all excess sugars. Now I only drink 2% milk and water. I've put on about 3 pounds in these three weeks, and it all seems to be muscle. I feel better than I ever have and have more confidence. I think you should add the Rippetoe program to the OP captain. There is so much good info to be found. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224 If not I will start my own Rippetoe thread.

The Rippetoe program really is pretty awesome, especially considering how little you actually have to do each week in order to get some pretty great results. Every so often when I need a program change I'll fall back on Rippetoe for a week or two until I figure out what I'm going to do next.

 

[APF]

Why does that program list the most demanding (technically, physically, etc) lifts last? Can't say that makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[Brendonia]

Why does that program list the most demanding (technically, physically, etc) lifts last? Can't say that makes a whole lot of sense.

If you're talking to me it was because it gets you to a deeper level of exhaustion than it would were you to do it first. I wasn't quite sure on that either, to be honest, but it works.

 

[APF]

Oh, sorry I was talking about the program in that link: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

 

[Anton Sugar]

I just finished my third week of Rippetoe's and I am really enjoying it. I made a thread a few months ago about wanting to get larger arms. Well I've learned alot about weight lifting since then. I've increaded my calories, while cutting down on all excess sugars. Now I only drink 2% milk and water. I've put on about 3 pounds in these three weeks, and it all seems to be muscle. I feel better than I ever have and have more confidence. I think you should add the Rippetoe program to the OP captain. There is so much good info to be found. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224 If not I will start my own Rippetoe thread.

Awesome, man. I've been consistently gaining per week as well (about a pound a week, if not more) and strength has been going up easily.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Why does that program list the most demanding (technically, physically, etc) lifts last? Can't say that makes a whole lot of sense.

Not quite sure what you're talking about. Nothing is as exhausting as the squat and/or deadlift in that list.

 

[kozmo7]

Those Weider dumbbells aren't bad, and they will serve the purpose, but as I said, I just think that going to a gym--even or maybe preferably a 'bad' one--will be the more effective and cost efficient way to go over the long haul.

Ah, whelp I should probably explain myself as to why a gym membership is out of the question for me, forgot to state that.

Ever since I was 2 years old I've had eye problems. I won't get into the long story but I have a [most likely] permanent condition which restricts me when it comes to working out among other things.

I am not allowed to lift on my back. For laying down a little while is alright but lifting in that position is a major no-no. I used to be into getting in shape and staying there; took martial arts and all that jazz but ever since my eyes got worse and went to shit I haven't. (Doc required me to stop a lot of physical things I loved to do, no not sex atleast )

In your opinions how much do you think not being able to lift on my back hampers me when it comes to lifting weights? I thought it hampered me enough to make a gym membership unrealistic but perhaps I am just being too pessimistic. From last I looked they also like to charge out the ass here for gym memberships.

 

[Anno]

Alright, so I've recently taken running back up. I did it a lot in high school for track but I wasn't really concerned with the health aspect of it back then. Now I am. I'm not in bad shape at all, but I'm probably not in super "health" I fear.
So, in terms of carb intake, would it be any different than someone working on serious weights? Also, is whole grain pasta any better? I really like it and it makes a nice accompaniment to chicken and veggies.

 

[Captain Glanton]

Ah, whelp I should probably explain myself as to why a gym membership is out of the question for me, forgot to state that.

Ever since I was 2 years old I've had eye problems. I won't get into the long story but I have a [most likely] permanent condition which restricts me when it comes to working out among other things.

I am not allowed to lift on my back. For laying down a little while is alright but lifting in that position is a major no-no. I used to be into getting in shape and staying there; took martial arts and all that jazz but ever since my eyes got worse and went to shit I haven't. (Doc required me to stop a lot of physical things I loved to do, no not sex atleast )

In your opinions how much do you think not being able to lift on my back hampers me when it comes to lifting weights? I thought it hampered me enough to make a gym membership unrealistic but perhaps I am just being too pessimistic. From last I looked they also like to charge out the ass here for gym memberships.

Dang, bud, that's too bad. I think that a gym membership would still be beneficial, although I'd wonder if the stress on your whole body of something like squats would be out of bounds for you too. You won't be able to do much of consequence for your chest, but chest training is overemphasized by most guys anyway. Overhead press > bench press. And you can still train your abs from a vertical position, with leg raises and such.

I think a membership would still be the better route, because almost all of the crucial exercises are still okay for you, if I'm understanding your situation properly.

 

[WickedAngel]

Weight is only a measure of progress in getting fit if you're trying to lose 25 pounds or something. If you're lifting weights and trying to get rid of love handles or whatever, the scale is useless.

A picture-guide might be worthwhile though. I am starting one and I will be posting it in a couple of months to show the progress. I will take pictures weekly.

I'm not overweight but I've lost almost all the definition I had. It will be interesting to see how it comes back through rigorous training/dieting.

 

[Futureman]

YO I got a carbs question.

When you read the nutritional info on a product, let's say the carbs are listed as 22 g. Under that, they list sugars. If the sugars are low, like 2 g, does that mean overall the food has a majority of good carbs? Other products might have something like 30 g of carbs and sugars are listed at 25 g. So that would mean this item mainly has the bad kind of carbs?

 

[WickedAngel]

YO I got a carbs question.

When you read the nutritional info on a product, let's say the carbs are listed as 22 g. Under that, they list sugars. If the sugars are low, like 2 g, does that mean overall the food has a majority of good carbs? Other products might have something like 30 g of carbs and sugars are listed at 25 g. So that would mean this item mainly has the bad kind of carbs?

You have to determine what kind of carbs they are. I'm not 100% certain but I believe that certain carbohydrates turn into sugars after they are ingested (Meaning that they're bad but they don't have to be listed as sugars).

 

[APF]

Not quite sure what you're talking about.

Deadlift and power clean.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Started up creatine tonight after a 7 year hiatus. Hopefully this new formulated shit doesn't make me cramp like Phosphagen did back in the day.

 

[Captain Glanton]

YO I got a carbs question.

When you read the nutritional info on a product, let's say the carbs are listed as 22 g. Under that, they list sugars. If the sugars are low, like 2 g, does that mean overall the food has a majority of good carbs? Other products might have something like 30 g of carbs and sugars are listed at 25 g. So that would mean this item mainly has the bad kind of carbs?

To the best of my knowledge, those missing 23g of carbs can still be near-sugar, 'bad' carbs, depending on the product. If it says "whole wheat" or "whole grain" on the label, or it's oatmeal or something, then you're golden. But if it's still processed or overrefined carbs, such as many pastas, bagel and muffin stuff, cereals, white bread, and the like, then I'd be wary.

 

[Futureman]

Another question.

My workout routine is just running every few days and doing sit-ups and push-ups when I can. If I'm up to it, should I do sit-ups and push-ups every night? Or should I stagger them and only do it three times a week or something?

 

[siamesedreamer]

You can do those everyday.

 

[Learn2read]

So what's the deal with a good intense cardio workout after a lifting session? I don't think I've ever really heard a straight up answer anywhere.

When I do my cardio, it's usually for 25-30min but my heartrate is up around 185 the wholetime, so it's not exactly HIIT, but it is rather high intensity. I'm not just sitting there reading the paper.

 

[Captain Glanton]

So what's the deal with a good intense cardio workout after a lifting session? I don't think I've ever really heard a straight up answer anywhere.

When I do my cardio, it's usually for 25-30min but my heartrate is up around 185 the wholetime, so it's not exactly HIIT, but it is rather high intensity. I'm not just sitting there reading the paper.

You can do it and profit from it just fine, although I'd cut the time down to 15 minutes and up the intensity in proportion.

Another question.

My workout routine is just running every few days and doing sit-ups and push-ups when I can. If I'm up to it, should I do sit-ups and push-ups every night? Or should I stagger them and only do it three times a week or something?

Pushups and Situps will not stress your body enough to where you need to take days off. Don't do them too late at night, though; give your body a chance to wind down for sleep.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Deadlift and power clean.

Deadlift is in the top three (as it should be). Squat is arguably more exhausting than anything else on the list. The power clean, compared to a full clean, is not that exhausting. You're not supposed to do power cleans in high reps and it's not that hard of a movement to teach compared to a full clean.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I read through this and I think I understand the gist of it. The only question I had was with bringing it back down, it says that you should not reset, only touching the bars/rack at the end. Let me just see if I understand the whole exercise though. You start with the bar just above the knees, with knees and back slightly bent. You then straighten up and go straight up into the shrugging motion. Now here is where I see a slight problem. You are pulling up a large amount of weight quickly, and then releasing it somewhat fast given the high weight. It seems like there would be a ton of momentum on the way down, and it wants you to stop just above the knees. Seems like this could wreak havoc on the lower back, but I might not be understanding the exercise properly. I am going to try it out today, but will use lower weight just in case.

Think of it like a power clean with weight thats too heavy, or just a really heavy pull. When I did it, I would start with knees bent, shoulders forward as if leaning over the bar, bar at thighs, and jump up while shrugging. Arms stay straight. Can shrug a lot more than I can deadlift, have to use straps because the force of the weight falling after each rep is too much for my grip. You don't let it pull you forward--bend your knees as the weight falls, keep it close to your body. The farther out it is from your body, the harder it will be on your back. From that page:

1) Go here: http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm
2) Download "Clean Pull Low" - left column under Power heading
3) Forget everything from the ground to the knees and look at the top. That's the finishing position. Just start the bar from above the knees or the more traditional variation high on thighs with torso only slightly tilted forward.

 

[APF]

Squat is arguably more exhausting than anything else on the list.

Not deadlifts.

The power clean, compared to a full clean, is not that exhausting.

Demanding != physically exhausting.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Again, arguably. I'm not saying I go one way or the other, but as many have put, squatting works everything from the bar down. Now, you cannot deadlift as frequently and heavy as you can squat, because the lower back is sort of a "weak link" in the deadlift and prone to exhaustion easier than in the squat. But one could (and many have) argued that the squat is more physically and mentally demanding than the deadlift.

What is your definitely of demanding? As Mark Rippetoe himself said in a thread from someone worried about learning/doing power cleans by himself:

Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a pussy, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life. I think the Starting Strength includes an understandable method for learning to power clean, and just in case it's not simple enough I rewrote it for the new book so that it is even simpler. You don't really need bumper plates to do them if you don't have access, so that doesn't wash either. They are in the program because an explosive movement is a valuable contribution to power production, and they make deadlifts get stronger faster.

Okay, you don't need a coach to learn power cleans, because we fixed things up so that you can learn them out of the book. And what exactly is the downside of trying to learn them and failing? Firing squat? The fucking bodybuilders making fun of you from the safety of the dumbbell rack? Loss of wages? Just try them before you decide you can't learn them without a coach.

The nature of power cleans doesn't allow enough weight to be used to be too demanding on your CNS--they are better used as a skill movement for explosion than any sort of bodybuilding purpose. Not that you can't use them for that, of course.

 

[APF]

The fact that they are a more technically-demanding and skill-based exercise is exactly why you want to do them before your less demanding lifts. Doing power cleans first will also potentiate the muscularly-intensive exercises done later. Deadlifts are more neruomuscularly-demanding (than squats, but also than power cleans), for a number of reasons; your lower-back is primarily ST, which means it will recover faster than muscle groups of mixed-fiber-type, or groups that are primarily FT, like much of the rest of the posterior chain. That is, of course, unless you're already battling injury, over-flexibility of the lower-back, etc.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Deadlifts are not the focus of the program. The BB.com "Rippetoe" guide is a little incorrect. I don't have my book on me and I am doing a modified program following "Texas method", but it went something like this I believe (got this from another forum).

Monday
Squat
Bench/OH Press
Chin Ups

Wednesday
Squat
Bench/OH Press
Dead lift or power clean

Friday
Squat
Bench/OH Press
Chin Ups

The bench/OH press are alternated from workout to workout. As you can see, the deadlift and power clean are NOT the foucs. Squatting is. Squat three times a week. With the Texas method of Rip's program, Wednesday squats are light for recovery and to ensure deadlift is unimpeded.

I've heard both sides. I used to do my less demanding work before everything, as a bench press may not affect your squat (because it is less demanding physically and neurally), but a squat may. However, that's no absolute.

I've also done programs that stress exactly what you say--doing any olympic style lifts before you do your power ones (do cleans/snatches/pulls before deadlifts and squats), for the same reasons, in addition to the fact that your explosive oly lifts are going to be MUCH less than what you can deadlift. However, as they are not a focus here, it is not as big of a deal. Squatting, then benching gives adequate time for muscle rest before deadlifts, which aren't a huge stressor to the quads anyway except in the starting position and having the bar below the knees. As the focus is on squats, Rippetoe would much rather your power clean or deadlift suffer than your squat.

Sorry, I initially misunderstood what point you were getting at.

 

[Amon37]

Reading this thread while eating pizza and wings=Me feeling guilty. :lol

That said I've learned a lot reading this thread. I also have no gym access at this point and there have been some great suggestions and sample exercises to get me started.

All the way until I got a car and then a desk job (age 18-21) I was 150 pounds and I'm 5'9 over the course of 10 years with no regular exercise I have gone up to 227 and it's all in my gut and face. Nowhere else. I'm looking to start slow because I know it's a lifestyle change and really need to ease myself and my wife moreover into it.

 

[APF]

The bench/OH press are alternated from workout to workout. As you can see, the deadlift and power clean are NOT the foucs. Squatting is.

Then you should do SL deadlifts instead, since they're less demanding and require less technique overall.

I've heard both sides. I used to do my less demanding work before everything, as a bench press may not affect your squat (because it is less demanding physically and neurally), but a squat may. However, that's no absolute.

[...]

I've also done programs that stress exactly what you say--doing any olympic style lifts before you do your power ones (do cleans/snatches/pulls before deadlifts and squats), for the same reasons, in addition to the fact that your explosive oly lifts are going to be MUCH less than what you can deadlift.

Yeah, the point isn't to do less demanding work first, the point is to do technique-heavy demanding work first, then less-technique-heavy demanding work, less-technique-heavy less-demanding work, etc.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'd say the squat is HARDER, technique wise, than the deadlift.

There is no danger in doing deadlifts after squats as long as you've had some recovery time. Your lower back is not nearly as fatigued, deadlift is not leg-strength dependent. Same for the power clean, which has a very similar pull compared to the deadlift. SLDL or Romanian deadlifts are great assistance exercises, but won't replace either the deadlift or the power clean. This routine won't have you puking after your squats or anything. It will be damned tough, but you'll be recovered enough to be able to deadlift or clean fine and they are an important addition to any routine. SLDL don't compare to either.

If you were to squat, THEN deadlift, then press, your deadlift would suffer even more, IMO. Deadlift, THEN squat, and your lower back is more apt to give out. Deadlift, press, then squat? Sure, maybe, but thats not the focus. Deadlifts came easy to me--squats have always been technically harder in my eyes.

 

[deadbeef]

I'd say the squat is HARDER, technique wise, than the deadlift.

There is no danger in doing deadlifts after squats as long as you've had some recovery time. Your lower back is not nearly as fatigued, deadlift is not leg-strength dependent. Same for the power clean, which has a very similar pull compared to the deadlift. SLDL or Romanian deadlifts are great assistance exercises, but won't replace either the deadlift or the power clean. This routine won't have you puking after your squats or anything. It will be damned tough, but you'll be recovered enough to be able to deadlift or clean fine and they are an important addition to any routine. SLDL don't compare to either.

If you were to squat, THEN deadlift, then press, your deadlift would suffer even more, IMO. Deadlift, THEN squat, and your lower back is more apt to give out. Deadlift, press, then squat? Sure, maybe, but thats not the focus. Deadlifts came easy to me--squats have always been technically harder in my eyes.

Every time you type this, I cringe a little. I can't imagine doing both a serious squat and deadlift workout on one day.

Also, deadlifts make me really really hungry the next day, while squats do not. Weird, but I just thought I would share.

 

[APF]

If you were to squat, THEN deadlift, then press, your deadlift would suffer even more, IMO. Deadlift, THEN squat, and your lower back is more apt to give out. Deadlift, press, then squat? Sure, maybe, but thats not the focus. Deadlifts came easy to me--squats have always been technically harder in my eyes.

Squats have a longer ROM, and that can cause technique issues. Deadlifts are far more intensive from multiple angles; it uses more muscle groups, it uses higher loads, etc. Your back isn't activated nearly as much in a proper squat as it is in a deadlift, and the erectors are, again, primarily ST muscle fibers that recover fast (providing no preexisting injury). In contrast, your posterior chain as a whole is activated quite comparatively in both exercises, meaning, ultimately, you'll be limiting your performance more in the DL than in the squat (where your quads, etc would be fresher), were you to do them consecutively. While I never suggested SLDLs or RDLs were, one-for-one, equal exercises to the DL or the PC, I'd still support substituting them in the above program, for all the reasons I've suggested. You also don't get much out of doing a couple of sets of power cleans once every five days or whatever so I'm not sure I can agree with their inclusion in the first place.

 

[Oudom]

My ass is so sore from squats. Man, I haven't done any pull ups in a while and when I tried some earlier today, I got fried. I could barely do three sets of 10!!!! Yea, I find squats more harder than dead lifts.

 

[Amon37]

I have a question about the time I want/have to work out.

Usually I get home from work and get done with dinner at about 6:00pm. My wife goes to bed a 7:00pm and I usually go to bed about 9:30pm-10:00pm

Is it ok to do a workout(mostly cardio and other at home exercises with no gym equip) in between 7:00pm and 8:00 then go to bed at 9:30pm-10:00pm and should I eat anything else in between workout over and going to bed?

 

[pete914]

Just thought I'd introduce myself in this thread- Been waiting on approval for 5+ months and wanted to post in this thread many times. Overall I'm impressed with most of the advice seeing that this is primarily a videogame forum, and I'm glad to see some T-Nation readers here. Currently I run a modified 5x5 kind of routine, where as I progress on some exercises I add weight, others additional reps, and others again additional sets. It keeps things fresh and enjoyable, which I think is key for sticking with working out over long periods of time. I think anything you like that you can do consistantly is better than any "super effective" cookie cutter routine that you despise, causing low effort/intensity and even quitting.

Anyways, currently running a slightly lighter overall workout because I had some back issues- therefore no squats, DL's, Pendlay Rows, or standing overhead presses, probably through the end of the year. Basically my overall strategy is putting compound movements at the beginning of the workout, then finishing with isolation.


(sets/reps)

Monday
Alternating Leg Barbell Lunges (heavy) 3-5x5 (normally would be squats)
Seated DB Shoulder Press 5x5 (normally would be Standing military press)
One Arm DB Row 5x5 (normally would be Pendlay Rows)
Donkey Calf Raises 5x8 or 4x10
Dips supersetted by Leg raises (roman chairs? whatever you want to call them)- I do these at bodyweight, usually 17-20 for dips, 12-15 for leg raises, 3 sets total
Wide grip overhand pullups 2 sets, first to failure ~12, second ~6
Arms- usually 3 sets of a bi/tri superset, whatever I feel like doing

Wednesday
Palms Facing Narrow Grip pullups- I usually try to add to the total number done each week. So one week I might do 4 sets of 8 (32) then do 5 sets of 7 the next (35). Currently at 8, 8, 8, 7, 7
Incline Bench 5x5
Upright Barbell Rows 5x5 (normally would be SLDL or DL, and go at the start of the workout)
Ab/Arm work, usually close reverse grip bench and DB curls, cable crunches, etc

Friday
Bench Press 5x5
Pullups- what I call "Ninja Warrior Pullups" done basically gripping a ledge (I use the connector on the cable station) with your fingers/palms at a 90 degree angle, usually 3 sets, then 2 sets normal pullups
Lunges (light) I mix this up, sometimes I'll do a huge pyramid starting with the bar and adding +10 each time, then working all the way down, sometimes 20 rep sets, etc.
Shrugs SS w/ skull crushers, pyramid shrugs, high rep skullcrushers 12+, 3 sets total.
Other assorted arm work (2-3 sets)

I'm currently 5'11" and just a shade under 200 lbs at around 16% bf. I've always carried some fat, and I was a swimmer as a kid, so go figure. I'm planning on getting down to about the 12% region this spring, which I figure is about as low as I can maintain without driving myself insane. Seriously, I can look at starches and gain weight. Currently my diet is pretty sound, just need to do some cleanup on the weekends. Most of my fat loss will come from adding cardio, rather than cutting food. So yeah, there you have it. Look forward to contributing something (mostly positive...mostly) to this thread.

And I deserve any "TLDNR" posts, didn't mean to write so much.