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Official Football Thread 2006/2007 (Soccer)

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I like our new forum pastime of posting Barca man-love pics. :lol

Arsenal just lost to Red Bull Salzburg 1-0. Not a great game for them, but supposedly Hleb and Diaby played pretty well. I don't think Fabregas played and Rosicky came off after 25 min. The big preseason games start this weekend with PSG on Sat and Inter on Sun.
 
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Ghost said:
That was in March. The third party agreement that allowed Tevez to leave at MSIs request has since been 'terminated', West Ham own his registration, and a 4 year playing contract. MSI own...you know what, Im not gonna explain it all again, that conversation had nothing to do with the ownership of Tevez.

yeah and if you read my original post you would see that I said that as well. Which makes my post pretty damn free of errors. How about some reading comprehension?

What you also fail to acknowledge is how this absolves Utd of any blame of tapping him up.

West Ham are blatantly lying and/or breaking the law, probably both. They chose not to buy him from MSI, they just decided to cancel part of their agreement but conveniently hang onto the part which means they get a £25m player for free. Thats simply illegal. If you want to cancel part of the agreement, you have to cancel all of it. oh but wait they cant cos they lied to the premier league. What a joke.

Its ridiculous that you should accuse us of tapping him up while its clearly West Ham who are the extremely hilariously guilty party here.
 
Guilty of having a 3rd party agreement, that we were punished for, sure. All West Ham have done since being punished for that is act in the interest of not honoring that agreement, as instructed by the Premier League. That's all fact, it's in the arbitration document that you can find online.

None of it changes the fact that West Ham own the registration for the player and the playing contract, MSI only control the 'economic rights' which mean nothing in the context of this farce, all MSIs powers to release Tevez from his playing contract OR sell him to West Ham permanently lay in the 3rd Party Agreement, which as i said, West Ham are not allowed to honor in any capacity under instruction of the Premier League.

It's Premier League rules that state that a player cant negotiate a contract with another club without the permission of the owner of the players registration (ie West Ham), Man U never recieved permission.

Even if the High Court forces West Ham to honor the original agreement and release Tevez' registration that still wont change the fact that they negotiated a contract without permission. Im not saying you'll get punished for it, but you have tapped him up.
 
Seems Corinthians have jumped the MSI sinking ship. I'd like to see all 3rd party ownership of players banned really, but with so many different laws across so many different countries, I don't see how it could happen.

Dundee United - Barca tomorrow. I dunno when the Spanish season starts, I assume later than the others 'cos it sure as hell finished a long time after everyone else last time, but I hope we see the bigger players on display.

I kind of wanted to watch Newcastle - Celtic too, but it's on at the same time and Barca have the Henry factor, not to mention the fact that they've lost to Dundee United 4 times out of 4.
 
Ghost said:
Guilty of having a 3rd party agreement, that we were punished for, sure. All West Ham have done since being punished for that is act in the interest of not honoring that agreement, as instructed by the Premier League. That's all fact, it's in the arbitration document that you can find online.

None of it changes the fact that West Ham own the registration for the player and the playing contract, MSI only control the 'economic rights' which mean nothing in the context of this farce, all MSIs powers to release Tevez from his playing contract OR sell him to West Ham permanently lay in the 3rd Party Agreement, which as i said, West Ham are not allowed to honor in any capacity under instruction of the Premier League.

It's Premier League rules that state that a player cant negotiate a contract with another club without the permission of the owner of the players registration (ie West Ham), Man U never recieved permission.

Even if the High Court forces West Ham to honor the original agreement and release Tevez' registration that still wont change the fact that they negotiated a contract without permission. Im not saying you'll get punished for it, but you have tapped him up.

I can barely believe this, are you seriously defending your position? First of all, if you cancel part of the agreement, surely the rest of the agreement becomes void. But the key issue is this.

The Premier League gave you two options:

a) stop playing Tevez
b) make it so that WH own Tevez outright (i.e. purchase him)

Both options terminate the 3rd party agreement. There was no 3rd option of terminate 3rd party agreement, that was simply the outcome of the solutions - but West Ham did not choose A or B, they chose Z and decided to lie to everyone.

They told the PL that Tevez is now a West Ham player - this is the lie which finds them in this mess because Man Utd, MSI and West Ham all know Tevez is NOT a West Ham player. WH told the PL that they have sorted out a legitimate transfer of rights from MSI to WH, they had not. They had simply decided of their own accord to basically scribble out bits of the agreement and rewrite others. The PL have pretty much come out and sheepishly admitted like a guilty child that WH had lied to them (and itsall their fault sir!).

WH told MSI that Tevez will still be allowed to move at the end of the season. West Ham gave up the option of buying him. That option was still there at the end of the season. MSI have said to WH "do you want Tevez? he is happy to stay"and WH have said "actually, we dont have the money..".

So MSI went around with WH's agreement looking for a new club for Tevez, then when they find one they're shocked to hear the PL saying its not allowed and WH suddenly saying he is a WH player and is not for sale.

WH have not been punished sufficiently and this will not die just yet. You do not simply rip up a legal agreement and find yourselves in posession of an asset worth £30m for free.
 
PSV just signed a new keeper, the 20 year old Brazilian Cassio Ramos for 1.5 million Euro from Gremio. He's the keeper of Brazil U20. He'll be our second or third keeper, behind Gomes. Should be good for him to adjust at PSV and learn from Gomes for a year, before he takes over (assuming Gomes leaves next year).
 
Funny though that the whole Tevez thing all started with a totally different West Ham board room. And now Maggy is trying to save face. Did he have to pay the £5million? Surely he could sue the old chairman or something for the monies. Not his fault.

It's a bit of a mess and really it looks like Mag is just trying to stop West Ham getting punished any more. But I can't see how they can claim to own him, they never bought him. The plan is probably to delay delay delay until it's too late now. Not that they get to keep Tevez, but rather they get to stay in the Premiership.
 
kaizoku, Im not gonna bother responding to you about this any more because you dont seem to be reading what i write, you just hit reply and post a load of opinions you probably read in the daily mail. If you want some facts, you can read the actual arbitration report which describes the whole affair in great detail here: http://soccerlens.com/files/scan.pdf and form your own opinions.
 
We still need to sort out rules for the prediction league. Here's my idea, see what you think:

We pick 5 games a week from the following competitions: the Premier League, the FA Cup, the Champions League. I'd say it can be any of the games, except in the FA Cup where there should be at least one Premiership team involved, because how many of us think we can actually predict Barnsley - Scunthorpe? And a week is defined as Saturday - Friday. If there are less than 5 games that week (unlikely), we choose as many as possible. I think that, however many of these competitions are going that week, we should have at least one game from each. Don't have 5 Premiership games if there are CL and FA Cup matches going on too.

I reckon we should just pick someone to choose the games each week, we're pretty democratic here, I can't imagine there'll be any arguments. If you wanna do it, and so long as you haven't done it in, say, the last 3 rounds, then you can. Priority though goes to the person who says they want to do it, and hasn't done it for longest. You can pick unusual games, like Birmingham - Derby, but if there's an obvious game like Man Utd - Chelsea in there, don't delibrately skip it, people will want to be predicting those games the most.

Now I don't think you should have to get all 5 predictions in at once, before a Saturday say. Say there's a CL match between Barcelona and Chelsea on the Wednesday, only on the Saturday Terry, Drogba and Cech are injured. That might well change your thoughts on the game, so I reckon so long as you get your prediction in before kick off, you can even wait until teams are announced but it HAS to be in before the whistle blows to start the game, it's fine.

Now as for what we predict, I think just the scores, nothing like the goalscorers. So for example I'll say Arsenal will beat Chelsea 2-1 (sucking up to the forum)...if I'm right that Arsenal beat Chelsea I get 1 point, if I get the score right (which is obviously harder), I get a further point for a total of 2. So each week, the maximum anyone can get is 10 points, though it's really unlikely anyone will.

When it comes to games played over 2 legs, the prediction isn't who will go through, just the score that night. So let's say it's the second leg of Lyon - Bremen. Lyon have won the first leg 3-1, but Bremen win 1-0 on the night. Now the people who predicted a Bremen win there get a point, it's not about who goes through. Also, if it goes to penalties, I think we should just count the score at the end of extra time.

Obviously we can't force people to keep up with their predictions, but if you don't predict in time, you don't get points. So if you know you're going somewhere without internet access for a week, get the predictions in as soon as we come up with them.

That's another thing, whoever's picking the games that week should get them in by the Wednesday before the Saturday. So if the week runs August 11th - 17th, the games should be in by the 8th.

I think we can change our predictions right up until the game. So if you're not sure if you'll be able to get online just before a game, make a prediction earlier in the week and if you don't make it, that'll count. If you do, and you want to change it based on a team lineup say, you can do.

Finally, I guess I think if there's enough of an outcry at a game being missing (like the Man Utd - Chelsea one I said earlier) that week, I reckon we can put it in to replace another. Not if it's just say the Arsenal fans wanting Arsenal - Man City though and no one else really caring, it has to be clear that people generally want to predict that game in particular.

Thoughts? I'll write it up more coherently if people like it.
 
I suppose we could predict the Community Shield too as a one off, as people will be eager to get underway. Especially with a fixture like that.
 
We still need to sort out rules for the prediction league. Here's my idea, see what you think:
Cool, thanks for putting this together. I've been meaning to write something up, but I've been....lazy.

We pick 5 games a week from the following competitions: the Premier League, the FA Cup, the Champions League. I'd say it can be any of the games, except in the FA Cup where there should be at least one Premiership team involved, because how many of us think we can actually predict Barnsley - S****horpe? And a week is defined as Saturday - Friday. If there are less than 5 games that week (unlikely), we choose as many as possible. I think that, however many of these competitions are going that week, we should have at least one game from each. Don't have 5 Premiership games if there are CL and FA Cup matches going on too.
Works for me, though are the Champions League matches limited to ones involving Premiership teams?

I reckon we should just pick someone to choose the games each week, we're pretty democratic here, I can't imagine there'll be any arguments. If you wanna do it, and so long as you haven't done it in, say, the last 3 rounds, then you can. Priority though goes to the person who says they want to do it, and hasn't done it for longest. You can pick unusual games, like Birmingham - Derby, but if there's an obvious game like Man Utd - Chelsea in there, don't delibrately skip it, people will want to be predicting those games the most.
I would say we should just do a rotation. If someone can't handle it that week, we'll just use the next person in the queue. Whoever missed can do the next week. Basically, what you just said. Regarding the "big" matches, probably makes sense to take a look at those.

Now I don't think you should have to get all 5 predictions in at once, before a Saturday say. Say there's a CL match between Barcelona and Chelsea on the Wednesday, only on the Saturday Terry, Drogba and Cech are injured. That might well change your thoughts on the game, so I reckon so long as you get your prediction in before kick off, you can even wait until teams are announced but it HAS to be in before the whistle blows to start the game, it's fine.
That's fine, but I'd really like it if we have a central place where all the picks for a single person are. It'll be no fun searching through loads of posts looking for who picked what if each person has five different posts.

Now as for what we predict, I think just the scores, nothing like the goalscorers. So for example I'll say Arsenal will beat Chelsea 2-1 (sucking up to the forum)...if I'm right that Arsenal beat Chelsea I get 1 point, if I get the score right (which is obviously harder), I get a further point for a total of 2. So each week, the maximum anyone can get is 10 points, though it's really unlikely anyone will.
I'd go for 2 for the result and a bonus point for the actual score, but I'm cool with 1 and 1.

When it comes to games played over 2 legs, the prediction isn't who will go through, just the score that night. So let's say it's the second leg of Lyon - Bremen. Lyon have won the first leg 3-1, but Bremen win 1-0 on the night. Now the people who predicted a Bremen win there get a point, it's not about who goes through. Also, if it goes to penalties, I think we should just count the score at the end of extra time.
Agreed.

Obviously we can't force people to keep up with their predictions, but if you don't predict in time, you don't get points. So if you know you're going somewhere without internet access for a week, get the predictions in as soon as we come up with them.
Yup. Sometimes you'll just have to throw them out there early or let another poster do them for you. ;)

That's another thing, whoever's picking the games that week should get them in by the Wednesday before the Saturday. So if the week runs August 11th - 17th, the games should be in by the 8th.
Seems reasonable to me.

I think we can change our predictions right up until the game. So if you're not sure if you'll be able to get online just before a game, make a prediction earlier in the week and if you don't make it, that'll count. If you do, and you want to change it based on a team lineup say, you can do.
That's fine.

Finally, I guess I think if there's enough of an outcry at a game being missing (like the Man Utd - Chelsea one I said earlier) that week, I reckon we can put it in to replace another. Not if it's just say the Arsenal fans wanting Arsenal - Man City though and no one else really caring, it has to be clear that people generally want to predict that game in particular.
Cool.

Thoughts? I'll write it up more coherently if people like it.
What about one game being the "bonus match" of the week with double points? Just for fun? Or is that overcomplicating it.


PS: zoolaga, I'll add you to the list. Current list of participants is:
Cornballer
hadareud
mama smurf
psycho_snake
h0pper
lakitu
Fowler
Steroyd
phfresno
Ghost
DCharlie
zoolaga

Oh, and mama mentioned maybe using the Fink Tank as an entry, as well.
 
Cornballer said:
One more article, then I stop spamming the thread...

Good move for Zizzo. This is where Cherundolo plays, so it'll be good to have a more senior player looking after him.
The Bundesliga is about to get BRUINED.

kaizoku said:
Manchester could be considered seperate from Salford? which is where Old trafford is, technically its a seperate city.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. lol Stretford United.
 
Cornballer said:
Works for me, though are the Champions League matches limited to ones involving Premiership teams?

I don't mind if it is, it's just I already feel bad for the people who don't follow the Premiership primarily. Unfortunately, this topic is so oriented towards it that it's inevitable, people can try and set up a La Liga version seperately but I dunno how mnay takers there'd be. The difference with the CL is that clubs are generally big enough that I actually can make a prediction even if they're not from England, but like I say, I don't mind either way.

I would say we should just do a rotation. If someone can't handle it that week, we'll just use the next person in the queue. Whoever missed can do the next week. Basically, what you just said. Regarding the "big" matches, probably makes sense to take a look at those.

Yeah that sounds good to me. As for how the order of the rotation is inititially set up...well you can do the first week as it's your idea, and then I reckon whoever got the highest points that week (barring those who've already done it) gets to predict next time. And once we're through everyone, we have out order.

That's fine, but I'd really like it if we have a central place where all the picks for a single person are. It'll be no fun searching through loads of posts looking for who picked what if each person has five different posts.

That'd be good, but I don't know where we could do that. It couldn't just be a post because anyone needs to be able to add to it, but if it was a webpage we'd need to set up a password each or anyone could go along changing it. I think we might have to resort to just updating the predictions whenever we see them...and you know, if you've updated them people should be checking on your list their own to make sure you haven't missed it, and they can let you know.

I'd go for 2 for the result and a bonus point for the actual score, but I'm cool with 1 and 1.

Yeah, I'm happy with 2 and 1. So maximum points 15.

What about one game being the "bonus match" of the week with double points? Just for fun? Or is that overcomplicating it.

It's probably overcomplicating it I'd say. Bit harsh too on people who get the same amount of results right as someone else, just didn't happen to get the bonus match.

What we could do is have an extra point for getting all 5 results right, and if you get all 5 scores right, which, if it happens will be extremely rare, a further point still.
 
Mama Smurf said:
I don't mind if it is, it's just I already feel bad for the people who don't follow the Premiership primarily. Unfortunately, this topic is so oriented towards it that it's inevitable, people can try and set up a La Liga version seperately but I dunno how mnay takers there'd be. The difference with the CL is that clubs are generally big enough that I actually can make a prediction even if they're not from England, but like I say, I don't mind either way.
Agreed. It's just an issue of accessibility - I'd like to do something that would get everyone involved, but I don't know what would work for that. I know that if we did matches from La Liga, Serie A, etc... I would have no idea who to pick, which sort of defeats the purpose.

Yeah that sounds good to me. As for how the order of the rotation is inititially set up...well you can do the first week as it's your idea, and then I reckon whoever got the highest points that week (barring those who've already done it) gets to predict next time. And once we're through everyone, we have out order.
That'll work. Sounds like a simple, fair way to do it.

That'd be good, but I don't know where we could do that. It couldn't just be a post because anyone needs to be able to add to it, but if it was a webpage we'd need to set up a password each or anyone could go along changing it. I think we might have to resort to just updating the predictions whenever we see them...and you know, if you've updated them people should be checking on your list their own to make sure you haven't missed it, and they can let you know.
Yeah, we'll have to think about this. Maybe I can just update a post when the matches are over w/ what I've seen (basically use it for the scoresheet), and people can post corrections/updates that I missed until we get it right.

Yeah, I'm happy with 2 and 1. So maximum points 15.
Cool.

It's probably overcomplicating it I'd say. Bit harsh too on people who get the same amount of results right as someone else, just didn't happen to get the bonus match.

What we could do is have an extra point for getting all 5 results right, and if you get all 5 scores right, which, if it happens will be extremely rare, a further point still.
That's fine.
 
Ghost said:
kaizoku, Im not gonna bother responding to you about this any more because you dont seem to be reading what i write, you just hit reply and post a load of opinions you probably read in the daily mail. If you want some facts, you can read the actual arbitration report which describes the whole affair in great detail here: http://soccerlens.com/files/scan.pdf and form your own opinions.

jesus christ you big baboon. I just read that whole document and shock horror it describes things EXACTLY as I have. What is wrong with you? Whats with all these mocking comments like "what you read in the Daily Mail, silly opinions" etc. They might belong when you talk to someone who is pulling information from thin air.

But everything I have said is 100% accurate (with proof) and lets not forget I am meely responding to your stupid opinion that Liverpool and Man Utd tapped up Benayoun and Tevez respectively - which YOU pulled from your ass! You are wrong because West Ham basically told MSI to find Tevez a new club as they dont want to purchase him. so it is not tapping up!

West Ham have lied to Tevez, the FAPL, MSI and to the nation because the FAPL asked them to resolve the 3rd party agreement and they did not. But they said they did. MSI told WHU explicitly that they have seen the letter but they retain their rights. Tevez refused to sign ay new agreements or even acknoeledge that he had seen them.

Yes the FAPL was stupid for not pushing it further but thats the governing bodies for you. Doesnt change the fact that West Ham have tried to con everyone and now find themselves in a hole which is only getting deeper the more they squirm.

Cancelling a legal agreement without the consent of the other party is not acceptable. What part of this confuses you? So what if the FAPL recognise him as a WH player, they cannot win this case in court.

You've only gone and provided me with a legal document which totally backs me up regarding West Ham's behaviour right after you accuse me of being an idiot where I then provide proof. I think retreat probably is your best bet. you're out of your depth.
 
Karakand said:
Also Thak brought over 3 Thai players I know absolutely nothing about on trial. Hurray foreign owner from a country that gets no futbol respect.

you just know that you'll be forced to keep one of them and play them in the first team, despite the fact that he's shite, every so often to appease mr. shinawatra right?
 
Zoolaga said:
you just know that you'll be forced to keep one of them and play them in the first team, despite the fact that he's shite, every so often to appease mr. shinawatra right?

Meh it'll bring in moolah. Oh ps 31 years.
 
Zoolaga said:
you just know that you'll be forced to keep one of them and play them in the first team, despite the fact that he's shite, every so often to appease mr. shinawatra right?
Hey man there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You think someone's going to pay real money for a club like Man C and expect nothing in return?
 
Karakand said:
Hey man there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You think someone's going to pay real money for a club like Man C and expect nothing in return?

i'm just joking with you, its not just Man City, we have Dong to bring in teh free moneys. Sir Alex is talking him up to make a big impact next season :lol :lol :lol .

To be honest i think that this takeover and having Sven manage the team can only be good for City.
 
Now it's West Ham being linked with Anelka. They'll have to offer a lot though I'd think, Sammy Lee only said he could go to a CL club.
 
Zoolaga said:
i'm just joking with you, its not just Man City, we have Dong to bring in teh free moneys. Sir Alex is talking him up to make a big impact next season :lol :lol :lol .

To be honest i think that this takeover and having Sven manage the team can only be good for City.

Ji Sung is our big money spinner over there :) Although Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes do pretty well .... I wonder which team has the most marketable squad in the world?
 
Also Blackburn's proposed takeover is apparently only going to take one more round of talks, and then it'll either happen or won't. Seems unlikely it'll all go ahead in time for any transfer funds to be raised this summer, but that's ok, we can spend in January and next year.
 
Lakitu is my boy, so if anyone has a problem with him you can take it up with me. >:|
 
Lakitu said:
Barcelona.

I think that Ronaldinho and Messi make it alone, I think that marketability is directly linked to the number of world class skill players/dribblers/tricksters you have in your squad, as these are the entertainers that attract new fans to the sport.
 
Dear h0pper,

Lakitu's submissive nature towards his girlfriend is beginning to disturb me. He claims she just nutmegged him once, but if so what's the strap on for?

Could you please fix it for Lakitu to become a man, even if he has to pay.

Yours,

Mama Smurf

xxx
 
Barcelona by far. They're a dream team. If they had Cristiano I think I'd start seriously waiting for the second coming of Jesus.
 
Mama Smurf said:
Dear h0pper,

Lakitu's submissive nature towards his girlfriend is beginning to disturb me. He claims she just nutmegged him once, but if so what's the strap on for?

Could you please fix it for Lakitu to become a man, even if he has to pay.

Yours,

Mama Smurf

xxx

Mama: You, me, the corner, after school.
 
Anyone watching toronto - villa? I'm trying to watch but i can't get a smooth stream, anyway 2-1 to villa so far. I think I might adopt Toronto as my MLS team to support because A) they're not American, B) they seem passionate about football C)Danny Dichio :D

2 - 2 bitches
 
Damn I was just joking....Lakitu is my boy we go way back... I don't even know this "h0pper" fellow but Im asuming by his avatar that he's upto no good and he's a sucker for shots on goal.

I know kaizoku unfortunatly but we have this tready thing so I can't tell you how much of a daft prick he is. Ah well...
 
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