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Official Football Thread 2006/2007 (Soccer)

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Steroyd said:
I ALMOST felt sorry for West Ham that match, unlike the Charlton match they actually went out fighting and i still can't believe that the only guy who really shouldn't give a damn about West Ham i.e Tevez is working his socks and put out a performance for the team again.

Tevez has been a warrior with each of his clubs. Sure, he's a little crazy, but his effort on the pitch is second to none.

As for WHU, luck just isn't on their side this season. It's kinda sad, I've always liked them.
 
I've just realised what an awesome week of football we've got coming up. These games are British time and I might be missing other big games from various leagues because I'm taking these from a list of matches being shown on TV over here:

Tuesday (6/3)

Lyon v Roma CL 19:45
Valencia v Inter Milan CL 19:45
Liverpool v Barcelona CL 19:45
Chelsea v Porto CL 19:45

Wednesday (7/3)

Manchester Utd v Lille CL 19:45
Arsenal v PSV CL 19:45
Bayern Munich v Real Madrid CL 19:45
AC Milan v Celtic CL 19:45

Friday (9/3)

Birmingham v Derby Championship 19:45 (top two in league)

Saturday (10/3)

Middlesbrough v Manchester Utd FA Cup 17:30
Barcelona v Real Madrid La Liga 21:00

Sunday (11/3)

Celtic v Rangers SPL 12:30
Chelsea v Spurs FA Cup 12:45
Blackburn v Man City FA Cup 16:00
Plymouth v Watford FA Cup 18:00
Inter v AC Milan Serie A 19:30
 
Steroyd said:
I ALMOST felt sorry for West Ham that match, unlike the Charlton match they actually went out fighting and i still can't believe that the only guy who really shouldn't give a damn about West Ham i.e Tevez is working his socks and put out a performance for the team again.

I do wonder about some of the West Ham players. If it's true that Neill and Upson have relegation release clauses...are they really going to give their all? Of course, they'd never deliberately lose, but are they going to bust a gut to help West Ham stay up? If two players of their quality are available free, bigger clubs than West Ham will come in for them. Tottenham's defence has been poor this season (15th in the league, their attack is 6th) so they might want Upson, and Newcastle would probably want both.

I don't know if it's true, but I read that Curbishley told his players that, if they're relegated, there'd be a big clearout of players. I'm not sure that's the best incentive. The likes of Anton Ferdinand and Reo-Coker are probably hoping for a clearout if they're relegated as they're bound to be picked up by Premiership teams rather than having to play in the Championship.

Still sore about Liverpool losing to man U unluckily that's been the story of Liverpool's season give out a damn good performance but don't get the result, i hope Crouch gets sold it's almost sickening that a guy of that height cant even header a ball his lack of aerial threat makes it too easy defend against bring on koller or Caccioalio. (sp?)

I agree that it's ridiculous that Crouch's heading isn't strong, but he's always a threat (somehow). He could have won you that game if it wasn't for Van der Sar's supersave.

I say sell depending on who you buy. If you buy a tall striker, sell Crouch. If you buy a good finisher, sell Fowler (if you aren't anyway). If you buy a striker with pace, sell Bellamy.

And if you're going for a tall guy, Klose should be top of the list.
 
Im in California, I'd be supprised if Curbishely didnt hear the obsenities I've been yelling (and subsiquently muttering all morning)


And yes there will be a big clear out of players when we go down, Reo-Coker & Ferdinand are no longer wanted at the club, Neill definitely has a relegation release clause, not sure about Upson (dont know who'd buy him anyway He's played 3 games and gotten injured within 30 minutes in each). Then for the rest of the squad (from the back)

Green will go
Carroll might stay, club has shown him a lot of love

Defense
Konchesky wanted out the moment Curbs joined
Gabbidon will get better offers
Collins might stay
Spector will stay
All the other right backs will go

Midfield:
Etherington wants out though he's a great championship player (our Player of the Season both years we were in there before) so he might not get his wish
Mullins wants out
Quashie wont find a 5th premiership team to help relegate
Benayoun will go
I hope to god Noble stays because he's the future of the club, but big clubs will want him
Newton will stay (won't want to move away from his dealers)

Forwards:
Tevez Naturally will leave even if the FA decide we actually own him, he'll leave an Upton Park hero too because he's the only player bar Noble putting consistant effort in
Harewood wants out, he's one of the trouble makers too so I doubt the club want him
Zamora needs a slap round the face to get him back to his medicore best but I doubt he'll leave
Carlton Cole stays is a member of Reo-Cokers/Ferdinands little clique so the club will want him gone

So I make it 13 players curbs will want shot of in a couple of months. And make no mistake about it, despite what you'll read in the papers, the club wants them gone as much if not more than they want out.
 
Mama Smurf said:
Sunday (11/3)

Celtic v Rangers SPL 12:30
Chelsea v Spurs FA Cup 12:45
Blackburn v Man City FA Cup 16:00
Plymouth v Watford FA Cup 18:00
Inter v AC Milan Serie A 19:30


Don't forget "el classico", Real Madrid vs Barcelona.
 
Some of those you say will go, are they all trouble makers? I mean, Green and Benayoun? Normally relegated clubs have to let players go because they can't afford to pay their wages with championship money or because they have release clauses, but release clauses aren't all that common and Egghead has the money to keep players even if they want to go, doesn't he? The best thing he could do, financially, is to spend one season to make sure you're back in the Premiership the next.

Reminds me a bit of the season Fulham and Blackburn came up automatically. We both had waaaaay higher wage bills than the rest (thanks to the money we had back then) and even if you're unlucky one season, eventually that makes the difference.

Speaking of the Championship, there's a chance that the three teams who went down last year will be straight back up. It's an extremely close race, the top 8 are only seperated by 8 points, but I wouldn't be surprised if Birmingham and West Brom come up automatically and Sunderland should get in the play-offs. Those are too hard to call though.

Yazan said:
Don't forget "el classico", Real Madrid vs Barcelona.

That's Saturday.

EDIT: Just saw the highlights, Bolton didn't outplay us at all. Damn stats.
 
Wow...Real Madrid vs Barca, Milan vs Inter AND Celtic vs Rangers on the same weekend? that's ****ing nuts.

Great to see Blackburn win...or moreover, great to see Bolton lose. Arsenal should be able to solidify a top four place even with the injury woes.


kaizoku said:
Arsenal fans, its all well and good teaming up on me and acting like I'm some kind of insane moron, but these points of view are pretty much the general consensus on Arsene Wenger and his breed of Arsenal players. (sometimes its useful to know how outsiders view your tribe)

It is stunning that you should ignore that. Are you saying Wenger is flawless? I'm not even concerned about the cup final brawl, it probably was harsh. nevertheless it happened, it was embarassing, it wasn't gentle pushing and discussing etc. but you guys got punished and now Wenger is pumping the press with sob stories and all this "justice" talk. Rather like Lille actually. He would have been better off just not talking about it, concentrating on the game and pursuing any appeals through the proper channels in a dignified manner.

Wenger's teams have always behaved petulantly, dived, moaned when things dont go their way and caused trouble like kids in the park. Over the past few years Arsenal have been involved in so many stupid little fights - that is your flaw and now Wenger is speaking as if his team are little angels. Funny and deluded. Just like the fans eh? :D

I'm glad, its what keeps him in Fergie's shadow.

enough teasing though, good luck vs PSV, I'd like to see how Arsenal fare against top European sides in the next stage.


The only person who thinks their side is flawless is you. Fergie and Man U act with dignity and class? :lol Get the **** outta here with that shit. Ferguson had no problem turning into a whiney little child when reacting to Wenger's suggestion that Man U tires in the final stages of matches. Of course the fact that (A) Wenger never made those comments to the press (Flamini simply relayed this information on) and (B) it was taken out of context anyway just made Fergie look like a fool, but Wenger responded to Fergie's attack in a classy manner anyway just to make him look even worse. :lol And as previously noted, Fergie refused to talk to the BBC for a period of time, something Wenger has never done despite some of the shit that's said about him (everything from being a sore loser to a destroyer of the English game, as if that effort needs any help).

Oh BTW, Arsene also defended Sam Alladyce during the BBC bung scandal even though Sam's never had much good to say about Wenger, and he also thought Pardew's firing from West Ham was unfair despite the fracas that took place between them just a few weeks prior. But yeah, Wenger never acts like nothing but a sore head eh?

Nice of you to ignore what I said about Drogba and Essien BTW. Both threw punches, both were caught on the video, but the FA did nothing. Why is that? Wenger talked about "Sky Sports justice", and the definition of that is simple...the only thing the media focused on last Sunday was Eboue. No one said anything about Drogba or Essien, and as such the FA didn't feel compelled to do anything about them. That's not right or fair...you can't arbitarily hand out justice just based on what the media decides what and what not to crow about for a day or two. Either everyone who was shown in that video throwing punches gets punished, or no one does. Any other decision is bullshit.

Let's look at some simple facts. Arsenal's won the fair play award the last two years. They commit fewer fouls than almost every team in the Prem. Arsenal was also labeled for most of '06 as a soft team who's captain is too nice, and a squad that could easily be pushed around, and needed to toughen up or they'd never win anything. Now in the span of a couple of months they're being viewed as a bunch of dirty, cheating bandits who'll make up shit to whine about if they've lost a match. :lol People sure can change their views in a hurry.

Thanks for the well wishes against PSV BTW...I'll be rooting for your guys to advance, even though you don't deserve it. :lol
 
Does anyone have any info about the financial side of playing in the Champions League. I'm wondering how much money PSV would make if they advance to the next round.
 
I don't know about this year, but a couple of years ago, when Liverpool won it, quarter-finalists earned just under €2m. It will have gone up if anything, but it's probably around there.
 
I forgot to mention the Under 20 World Cup, which is being hosted in Canada this summer. They did the 16 team draw yesterday, as well as announcing ticket sales to date.

Advance ticket sales indicate more than 500,000 to watch U20 World Cup

The Associated Press
Published: March 1, 2007

OTTAWA: Advanced ticket sales exceeding 500,000 should make the under-20 World Cup soccer tournament the largest single-sport event ever staged in Canada.

Play is scheduled for six Canadian cities including Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal from June 30 to July 22. The official draw will take place Saturday in Toronto.

Fans have bought tickets without knowing which of the 24 teams will play in each of the six cities during the 52-match tournament

"For advance sales to ensure over a half-million spectators at the FIFA under-20 World Cup before the official draw even takes place is a truly tremendous achievement which speaks volumes about the growth and popularity of soccer in Canada," FIFA president Joseph S. Blatter said.

Peter Montopoli, director of the Canadian organizing committee, was equally as thrilled.

"This tournament has created unprecedented buzz for the game of soccer in our nation," Montopoli said. "Canadian fans are ready to show the world that they are first-class hosts when it comes to the greatest game on earth."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/02/sports/NA-SPT-SOC-U20-World-Cup-Tickets.php

They're hoping to sell somewhere in the neighbourhood of 800,000 tickets, which would be a phenominal acheivement.

And here's how the groups were drawn...

Group A (Toronto, Edmonton):
Canada
Chile
Congo
Austria

Group B (Burnaby, Victoria):
Spain
Uruguay
Jordan
Zambia

Group C (Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton):
Portugal
New Zealand
Gambia
Mexico

Group D (Montreal, Ottawa):
Poland
Brazil
Korea Republic
USA

Group E (Ottawa, Montreal):
Argentina
Czech Republic
Korea DPR
Panama

Group F (Victoria, Burnaby):
Japan
Scotland
Nigeria
Costa Rica

Yep...no England, and no Italy. I guess the three lions not being there is Arsenal's fault. :lol Anyway, click the Wikipedia link to view the schedule and game locations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup

Once I get my tax return in a couple weeks, I intend to purchase one of the ticket packages (I'd have it already if I hadn't been so cash-strapped lately).
 
06rx3.jpg

08fu4.jpg

09dd0.jpg


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
watched totten and west ham live....

ridiculous

and big win for arsenal today... we needed it, badly. I'm worried about the 50/50 chances of Henry playing against PSV... we NEED him to play from the performances of the last few games without him.
 
the bbc is reporting that Curbishley is keeping his job even when West Ham are relegated. Good move, in the end of the day they shouldn't have sacked Pardew either.
 
I cant believe what happened to west ham. Yesterday could have been the game that would let you survive, but now its the game thats made relegation look certain. It was so unlucky, but its got to be said that its west hams fault for letting in the third goal, Anton ferdinand is a ****ing idiot. There was abssolutely no need to foul the spurs player outside of the box. It was stupid and it cost you three points. Its unfair to blame ferdinand for losing the game, but his mistake was the most costly.

Im glad that curbs isnt going anywhere. He's the manager thats getting you relegated, but I cant see another manager who was available after pardrew got sacked that could have done better than curbs. No manager could have saved west ham because the players had a completely different mentality. Last year west ham were hungry and they believed in themselves; they were the perfect example of what a promoted club could do. Getting into europe and reaching an fa cup final after being promoted is an unbelievable achievement, but I the success got to the players heads. They felt that they've done enough and that they didnt need to try as hard. The argentinian players might have had a bit of an impact on the team, but there is no way that west hams faiures can be blamed on Mascherano or Tevez. For me tevez has been one of west hams best players.
 
Shinobi said:
Kinda feel sorry for Inter...they won 17 games on the trot till a couple weeks ago, and I think are unbeaten in their last 28 (they came from behind to beat Livorno 2-1 earlier today), 16 points clear of Roma with 12 games to go. There's every chance they could replicate Arsenal's feat in '04 and finish their league campaign unbeaten. But due to how watered down the top clubs are in the Serie A compared to previous seasons, nobody seems to be giving their accomplishments much respect.
And rightly so. Inter have been a joke for the last 17 years. They've not won anything significant since the eighties despite spending ****loads on world class players. Most people point and laugh at real madrid for not being able to win things despite having the best players in the world, yet Inter and much worse. Doing what inter have accomplished this season is nothing; juve have been relegated and Milan had a points deduction. Serie A isnt even a competition. Just wait and see what happens to inter next season. With Juve being promoted and both juve and ac milan strenghtening their squads, Inter will go back to being failures. It would be one hell of an achievement if Juve win serie a next season, but I cant see it happening. Im putting my money on Ac milan winning it, ronaldo being the driving force of the team.
 
Ok Im bored, so Im going to wind up Liverpool fans

I’m-a watching John O’Shea
Passing, scoring he controls the game
Wishing you were here by me
To see our victory

He’s a wonder
A wo- wo wo wo wonder
Why
Why why why why why
Is he so great?
It’s a wonder
How well he plays
My little John O’Shea
My John-John-John-John John O’Shea!

osheagoal_g.jpg


mufcbench_e.jpg
 
I would say Bowyer's "tackle" on Lennon to concede a penalty was more to blame than the free kick.

Actually, aside from Spurs' second goal, I think you can blame all three on different West Ham players. The first one Bowyer brought down Lennon in the box, the third one Ferdinand fouled that young french guy whose name I forget right outside the box and on the final one there was a moment where the ball came out to Noble (I think) and he could have just whipped it back into the box, but instead took a touch, allowed the opposition to close him down and had to pass to Zamora who was also surrounded and then the break was on.

I couldn't really say they were unlucky to lose that game, luck didn't play a part.

As for Inter...let's not underestimate them too much. Yes, AC Milan had a point reduction, but it was only 8 points, they'd still be 22 points behind even if you add those points back on. And it's not like they lost a load of big names, almost everyone is still there. If you take away 8 points from last year's finish rather than the 30 they lsot, they'd have still won Serie A ahead of Inter. So it doesn't really make sense to point to Milan's point reduction as a reason for Inter being ahead.

And they're still unbeaten in the league. Even Juve lost one last year, despite their match fixing prowess (of course, Inter still have time to lose). And they're on course to finish well ahead of Juve's points total.

Juve not being there is really the only thing I could say against Inter. And I think it's a fair point, not that Juve deserve to be there but their absence does make it slightly easier for Inter. But then, it makes it slightly easier on ALL the teams, yet it's Inter who've taken most advantage of that.

I don't overestimate Inter either though. I do think the Italian league is weaker than it has been in a while, though it seemed to me to be losing ground on England and Spain even before the scandal for some reason. That's why I've backed Valencia to knock them out.

There's a rumour that Liverpool want Pedersen. Doesn't surprise me, but he only signed a new contract this summer and we wouldn't let him go. Only...the rumour says Liverpool might be willing to swap Bellamy for him.

Hmmm...nothing's ever made me think it might be a good idea to let Pedersen go before, but that's tempting. The question is, are we stronger with Bellamy, or Pedersen? I guess the other question is, who could we buy in the other position depending on which one we have.

I have no doubt that Bellamy and McCarthy would be one of the best strike partnerships in the league, but I also feel that Pedersen is right up there with the best left wingers. Robben and Giggs are the only other two at his level (I'm counting Ronaldo as a right winger).

I just don't see where we'd get a good enough left winger from. The league's kind of short on them, and the good ones are at clubs who won't let them go and hardly anyone seems to have two decent left wingers so one can depart. Richardson's alright, but is Bellamy + Richardson better than, say, Pedersen + Mido (one of my transfer hopes)? I'm not sure.

There is one option...Kewell. If Blackburn were to sell Pedersen to Liverpool, they'd have a whole crapload of players who can play left wing. Pedersen, Kewell, Gonzalez, Zenden, Aurelio, Riise...they might be willing to let him go. If they offered Kewell and Bellamy in exchange for Pedersen, I would take it.
 
What song is that John O'Shea thing supposed to be sung to?

I like John O'Shea, if he ever gets fed up of sitting on United's bench, I'll have him.

You know, when looking up Kewell's age, I remembered Luis Garcia. I'd literally forgotten he exists. I can't really remember him getting injured, I've not been thinking "Liverpool will be better with Garcia back" like I have with Kewell...somehow, I just lost track of him.

He's always been a bit of a problem at Anfield. He's a great player, scored some fantastic goals...but never seemed to fit. He's not a right winger, he's not a central midfielder, he's not a striker...he just never suited their formation.

However, his time might be coming. As I've said before, it's hard to tell what Benitez is going to do with his formations and team selections, but I have the feeling he's going to go 4-3-3/4-5-1, old Chelsea style.

Garcia would be perfect for that. They'd keep the same keeper and the same defence (I still think Woodgate should be snapped up, but they're strong back there with or without him). The central 3 in midfield would be Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko. Up front would be that striker, whether it's Eto'o or Villa or Klose or Trezeguet or whoever. Attacking left wing would be dos Santos or Pedersen...and there's Garcia's position. Attacking right wing.

Man, I wish I was a manager.
 
Mama Smurf said:
I have no doubt that Bellamy and McCarthy would be one of the best strike partnerships in the league, but I also feel that Pedersen is right up there with the best left wingers. Robben and Giggs are the only other two at his level (I'm counting Ronaldo as a right winger).
You are forgetting about Rosicky - he should have scored more goals but I would think he's at their level for sure. I am convinced that he will score 10 goals in the Premiership next season now that he has fully adjusted to the English game.

Robben is overrated in my opinion btw (at least so far), he has all the talent in the world but unfortunately he seems unable to use it for more than 5 - 10 games a season. To make matter worse he's prick. I do however think that he could do better for a different team.
 
I don't really thing of Rosicky as a left winger, any more than I do Joe Cole or Lennon. If you're a right footer and come inside all the time, the position you start off in might be the left side of midfield but you're not a left winger. That's my view anyway.

Even if I did count players like that, I don't think Rosicky is there yet. Maybe he will be next season, but when I think about Emerton having to face someone, I'm a hell of a lot happier with him going up against Rosicky than I am against Giggs or Robben.
 
as you say, the difference between them is a their style of play.

I would consider Rosicky more influential than the pair of them, he might not be running at people as much, but that doesn't make him less dangerous. You also have to think that he was used as a playmaker by both Dortmund and the Czech Republic before he joined Arsenal. So not only did he have to adjust to a England, which is difficult enough for somebody that played in Germany for a long time, he also had to adjust to a new position.

I think he had an outstanding January/February and showed real promise for the future, I am convinced he will eventually truly replace Pires - which means he will not only influence the game but also score more goals than Robben and Giggs.
 
Pedersen is a brilliant player, one of the best wingers in the prem but I think Blackburn will want to hold onto him, plus I'm sure Blackburn will be able to get a new striker next season. Blackburn are slowly building their team to be even more capable, and their results lately have proven that, i.e. beating Bolton at their ground is very hard. Plus their continuing campaign into the FA cup is no doubt helping. They have some great players, as well as Bentley who I really think is a rising prospect for years to come.
 
yeah, I really like Bentley. Along with Pederson he's Blackburns best player, I would actually rate him highest of their players. Him signing a new contract was very important for Blackburn, he'll do great for them and will bring them a serious amount of money once he moves on to a bigger club in a few years time.
 
I was really more impressed by Rosicky during the World Cup playing from central midfield, which is where I thought Arsenal were going to play him.

He's nowhere near Pires or Ljungberg at the height of their game yet, for me. Those two got most of their goals by running in behind the defence or palying one twos around the defence. Rosicky and Hleb do that a bit, but not as much. Rosicky seems to like to shoot from outside the area more (nothing wrong with that, it's something Arsenal lacked, and if Hleb was scoring from inside the box then perfect), whilst Hleb seems to want to crate goals more.

To be honest, I think Reyes was more of a threat to most teams than Rosicky. He'd have really poor games, but he racked up a decent number of goals.

Like I say, I'm just talking about Rosicky right now, it's not like Pedersen adapted to the Premiership straight away.
 
hadareud said:
You are forgetting about Rosicky - he should have scored more goals but I would think he's at their level for sure. I am convinced that he will score 10 goals in the Premiership next season now that he has fully adjusted to the English game.

I wouldn't count on it, he has never made more 5 goals per season, neither at Borussia Dortmund nor Sparta Prague. Fantastic player nevertheless, if there was one Arsenal midfielder I had to pick to play for PSV, it'd be him.

Anyway, more injury related problems for PSV: both Da Costa and Kromkamp are out for Arsenal wednesday. :( Dunno what team Koeman wil field now. Probably something like this:

------------Gomes------------
-------Alex-----Salcido------
Culina------------------Sun--
-----------Simons------------
--Afellay----------Mendez----
------------Cocu-------------
--Farfan-----------Kone------

Perhaps Addo will play as CB, Salcido at Sun's position, Sun at Mendez's position and Mendez at Afellay's position. We won't know until wednesday evening.
 
My early guess at the Arsenal lineup, assuming that Henry plays. He's rated at 50-50 - if he's not ready to go, I'm not sure if Aliadiere, Baptista, or even maybe Walcott gets the nod up front. The huge question here is if we can keep the clean sheet. If PSV score, we'll need 3, and that's going to be extremely difficult.

-----------------Mad-Jens-----------------
--Eboue----Gallas----Toure-----Clichy--
Hleb---Fabregas---Gilberto---Ljungberg
-------------Henry----Adebayor----------

Subs: Walcott, Denilson, Aliadiere, Baptista, Djourou, Almunia
 
Shinobi fair points, but those stats are misleading. In 2003 Wenger's side were finally called up on their ridiculous disciplinary record, they were criticised by one and all, even the EPL and the FA. They sucessfully reduced their cards tally in 2004 and 2005 to top the fair play leagues which is all well and good - but that doesn't mean their antics stopped.

For example when Man Utd beat you guys to end your 49 game unbeaten run, the players were spotted wearing t-shirts saying "50 games unbeaten, we did it!" which is funny - never got to reveal them to the world thank god. so damn arrogant though isnt it? almost stupidly so.

They then started a ruck in the tunnel by throwing food. Classy. Man Utd had to take the moral high ground by not taking it any further - like the mature older brother. Wenger of course didn't see it! We even instigated talks between clubs to reduce the tension to prevent further embarassment from occurring. (the players did actually have a fight in the dressing room but that was covered up ;) Man Utd "won" :D)

Then you have the divers and cheats. Its interesting that so many Arsenal fans suddenly acknowledge that Ashley Cole is a snivelling little cheat when he stabbed them in the back. um...he was hated long before that and for a long time he was the typical Arsenal player. With the likes of Pires, Vieira and Cole leaving the cheating isnt so prevalent anymore, but you still have the laughable Lehmann etc. Your Fabregas-led era should have less cheating hopefully, this this has been a part of the Arsenal make up for so long.

Actually if you look at the Wenger wiki page there is a whole section devoted to "Controversies" :D says it all really. Man Utd fans have always enjoyed those aspects as we often come out looking better rather than brushing it under the carpet.

p.s. Man Utd are far from flawless. Most of my football posts are about man utd flaws (just not on here lately) and Fergie has some glaring flaws. Tactics being just one.
 
bad news about your injuries, I shall drink one celebratory pint less after our victory on Wednesday knowing that PSV can't field their strongest team. After that I will add 2 for our own injuries.

I know that he didn't score as many goals for Dortmund as he should have either, but I feel that he will pick plenty up for Arsenal.

You're right in saying that he's a different type than Pires Mama, but once he picks up some confidence I think he will get also behind the defence. Hleb is a different beast altogether, scoring wise, for some strange reason he still completely panics when he is supposed to shoot - the Arsenal crowd doesn't help in that matter with their "shoot" cheers and subsequent moaning after he's ****ed it up.

Only the future will tell if I'm right of course and going by my track record of predictions lately Rosicky will never score a goal in his life again and Hleb will have 2 hat-tricks in the next 3 games.

Talking about the presence I absolutely agree that he's not quite there yet though.
kaizoku said:
edit: not the diving discussion again kaizoku, we have had that months ago. BTW, regardless of your view of Wenger - even you must acknowledge that he never condoned diving as long as he was manager of Arsenal. He's actually one of the few managers who actually criticized one of his own players after a dive (Eboue in the Champions League final). The controversies are absolutely overrated too - we also did not have a player on our team in recent times who took great delight in ending other players careers, so much for Man utd's much loved legends.
 
For those that watched the Liverpool vs. Man Utd match...

Care to post the negatives and positives of Liverpool's performance, other than the result of course and what Liverpool will need to benefit from this.
 
Lakitu said:
For those that watched the Liverpool vs. Man Utd match...

Care to post the negatives and positives of Liverpool's performance, other than the result of course and what Liverpool will need to benefit from this.

your lack of quality striking is shocking. Liverpool badly need that top class striker who can make the difference in the last 3rd in terms of creating and converting opportunities against top class sides.

Its kind of hilarious that you went from one one dimensional frontman in Heskey to another in Crouch - and both ended up regular England players (rather undeservedly).

All the top teams have that quality though apart from you guys. The wings are also a probably weakness as you don't have so many players who are great at beating their man or creating goals.

Thats about it really. you wont be winning the league anytime soon imo cos you need to improve your first team AND your squad players. I'd rather not run into you in the champions league though. I dont see Man Utd being able to beat any of the English trio atm.
 
Lakitu said:
For those that watched the Liverpool vs. Man Utd match...

Care to post the negatives and positives of Liverpool's performance, other than the result of course and what Liverpool will need to benefit from this.
as kaizoku says you need a finisher, Kuyt is a quality player that can both score and assist - but he is not going to give you 30 goals a season, same goes for Bellamy. Crouch needs to go, he is not top flight material, sorry to say. Also, while not evident as much as in other games you need a playmaker. A quality centre back wouldn't hurt either.
And a real goalkeeper.

The biggest worry I would have as a Liverpool supporter is that they are going to bring in too many new players. Your core is good - it just needs a few additions here and there. Throwing money at pseudo-stars won't get rid of the problem, as we have seen in the past. Even Chelsea acknowledged that when Abramovich joined originally, this is why they have been successful in the past 2 seasons. As for this season, see above.
 
Cornballer said:
My early guess at the Arsenal lineup, assuming that Henry plays. He's rated at 50-50 - if he's not ready to go, I'm not sure if Aliadiere, Baptista, or even maybe Walcott gets the nod up front. The huge question here is if we can keep the clean sheet. If PSV score, we'll need 3, and that's going to be extremely difficult.

-----------------Mad-Jens-----------------
--Eboue----Gallas----Toure-----Clichy--
Hleb---Fabregas---Gilberto---Ljungberg
-------------Henry----Adebayor----------

Subs: Walcott, Denilson, Aliadiere, Baptista, Djourou, Almunia

So Eboue is definitely fit to play? Bummer...he's much better at RB than Gallas imo (atleast offensively). I'm not sure if I want Henry to play or not. He's obviously not fit, and his replacements aren't as good as he is (when he's fit). Oh well, we'll just put Alex on him (or his replacement). :)
 
Same problems Liverpool have had all season: weak on the wings and at finishing.

If you consistently played the same 2 strikers every game, I'm sure they'd both get you around 15 goals each a season. Too much chopping and changing stops that happening, but really you want a 15 goal a season striker playing alongisde a 25 goal a season striker.

Champions League tomorrow, as if anyone needed reminding. No game in the first leg ended with more than a one goal difference between the two sides, so needless to say anyone can still go through.

However, the results of the first leg have massively swung things in favour of one team or another. Most of the English teams have really good odds of going through now, but Arsenal might be in trouble. Not scoring an away goal could cost them. They have a little less than a 1 in 3 chance of going through in normal time, PSV have a little more than a 1 in 2 chance of the same and and a little less than a 1 in 6 chance of extra-time.

You've got a better chance than Barcelona though.
 
Falch said:
So Eboue is definitely fit to play? Bummer...he's much better at RB than Gallas imo (atleast offensively). I'm not sure if I want Henry to play or not. He's obviously not fit, and his replacements aren't as good as he is (when he's fit). Oh well, we'll just put Alex on him (or his replacement). :)
It's unclear whether or not he's ready to go. He came off in the Blackburn game w/ an ankle problem, and I wasn't sure how serious it was. This weekend he didn't play because of his suspension. I figure we'll hear something tomorrow as to whether or not he's fit.
 
I absolutely agree with you both, Rafa has already strengthened the Liverpool youths, he's bought in a host of players that have potential, Francisco Duran, Emiliano Insua, Jordy Brouwer, Sebastian Leto, Danielle Padelli and a few more.

In my opinion, the several factors of the Liverpool squad that should be improved:

Goalkeeping: Reina is still one of my favourite keepers, and I think he is better than Carson. He is also young at 24, and has a lot of potential. Most goalkeepers reach their full potential when they're older. I however think that we should get rid of Dudek and bring in a better 2nd choice goalkeeper, Danielle Padelli is not quite there yet and I think would need a year out on loan. I would love for Scott Carson to be brought back from loan but he craves first team football, so I can see us selling him next year as Rafa won't replace Reina unless he fumbles for the rest of the season.

Defence: I think we need to get rid of Sami Hyypia and get another CB, but Daniel Agger has very much impressed me this season and he can go on to being one of the best defenders in the premiership, he just needs to play more. Carragher for me right now is irreplacable, and Gabriel Palleta has much to learn, so we could benefit by loaning him for a couple of seasons. We'd need a big strong CB, and experienced, Carragher is experienced and we really benefit from that. There have been talks that we're interested in Anton Ferdinand - NO THANKS, he is no way good enough for West Ham, let alone Liverpool.

I think on the right of our defense, we're pretty good, we've got a good experienced player in Finnan, and also our new signing Alvaro Arbeloa proved that he's good enough with that performance against Barcelona at Nou Camp.

The left is a different matter entirely, Riise is not a good enough defender in my opinion and is form lately has not been very good. Fabio Aurelio is also capable of playing on the left of defense too but I've not seen him play much in that position. We really need a left sided defender, but I've no idea who though.

Midfield: Our midfield has to be one of the best in the premiership, but we really lack creativity at times and that's something we have to work on. I also don't see Gerrard going forward with pace as much as before and our tempo needs to work faster and we have to create more.

We have too many players in CM, it's already congested, so we don't need any more in that position, but we should get rid of Bolo Zenden as he's not done much for us besides being cover. We have Mohammed Sissoko (who I believe in a few years will be brilliant, as of right now, he has a lot to learn, his passing is downright dreadful but his determination & energy levels are through the roof), Steven Gerrard (who I feel should NEVER play on the right, it's simple the wrong position for him), Javier Mascherano (has yet to prove himself but could be a pivotal signing if he provides us with the creative spark that we need sometimes), Xabi Alonso (one of my favourite players, his passing is second to none and he's helped us out so much), which I feel is more than sufficient enough in that position. But we could benefit by getting an attacking midfield whether it's centre, right or left.

On the left of midfield is where one of our biggest problems lies, Riise, nor Gonzalez (who I believe needs a couple of seasons on loan to get where he wants to be as he isn't good enough yet) have really fullfilled this role to well. We need someone pacey and someone who can take on players AND provide us with good crosses. I thought Aurelio did well in that position on Saturday, only his crosses were not good enough. Preferably I'd like Liverpool to sign someone like Simao Sabrosa or Pedersen or Robinho for that position. Sebastian Leto in a few years could really be good for this position, so could Mark Gonzalez but right now he is nowhere near good enough for it. I also forgot that we're getting both Luis Garcia (who is really creative for us and sorely missed) and Harry Kewell back next season, which should also provide us cover and more creativity on that side.

On the right, it's not as bad as left, but it still needs improving. Now I'm a fan of Jermaine Pennant, he's doing well for us but he still has a bit to learn so he's not quite there yet, but his improvement has been quite remarkable this season. At the beginning, he was complacent and not good enough but now he's like a different player entirely. Steven Gerrard simply should not be in this position. I would love someone like Daniel Alves for this position.

Set pieces is another problem, we had over 10 corners on Saturday alone, our set pieces are not good enough and if it were any other big team, they would have made more out of it. That's something that needs to improve thoroughly.

Overall, our midfield needs improvement but it has a very good core.

Forward: Now here is where our biggest problem lie. We simply do not have that killer instinct, that 30-a-season goalscorer. We need to fork cash to buy a world class striker for this position. It's where we have had most of our problems.

Kuyt is a great, and technical player, he works so hard and links up well, his dribbling is not very good but he can score a lot of he wants to. This is his first season and it's the adaptation period, I fully expect him to play better next season. He scored a sufficient amount in Netherlands.

Craig Bellamy, is a striker that we need to keep, regardless of all the press he's been getting. He's pacey and he works very hard, but he just does not have that finishing touch. He has missed countless chances for us, but I still say we should keep him because he links up with the team so well.

Peter Crouch on the other hand, I believe we should get rid of him, he has scored, but he has been very inconsistent for us and I just don't think he's good enough. He is determined but he is very sloppy, and messes up some killer chances.

Robbie Fowler, despite being a very influential player in our team is way passed it, and the only thing that remains from him is his finishing, if only, like Rafa says, we could have someone with Bellamy's pace and workrate & Fowler's finishing. I just don't think we need Fowler anymore, he's very slow and sometimes drags the team down.

We are bringing in Andrei Voronin from Bayer Leverkusen in the summer, but he is another squad player, I don't expect he will be getting much first-team football but he is a hard worker. He also can work in a midfield position.

I think Liverpool need a top class signing, like Samuel Eto'o, David Villa or Fernando Torres. But whoever we sign from abroad will need to adapt to the Premiership which could take a while. Or we could simply sign a striker from the Premiership, someone who has already adapted to the style of the league. It's really up to Rafa where he goes with it.

Overall: I believe if that we fix these things, we can go on and win the title. I honestly believe this. We need to make these pivotal signings to enhance our squad which is great at the core. I also believe that if we are to win the premiership, Rafa needs to sink his rotational policy.
 
Torres isn't a 25 goal a season striker, or even a 20 goal a season striker.

In La Liga:

02/03 - 13
03/04 - 19 (4 pens)
04/05 - 16 (4 pens)
05/06 - 13 (3 pens)
06/07 - 8 so far (3 pens)

That's not to say Torres wouldn't be a good buy. He's a quality player who gets a decent number of goals...it's just if you're after a pure goalscorer, he's not the guy.

It always confuses me when he's linked to United. Like Rooney, he's a striker whose contribution to a team is so much more than just goals. He doesn't just stay up front, he likes to pick up the ball from the wings or a bit deeper. I'm just not sure they would work together.
 
Mama Smurf said:
Torres isn't a 25 goal a season striker, or even a 20 goal a season striker.

In La Liga:

02/03 - 13
03/04 - 19 (4 pens)
04/05 - 16 (4 pens)
05/06 - 13 (3 pens)
06/07 - 8 so far (3 pens)

That's not to say Torres wouldn't be a good buy. He's a quality player who gets a decent number of goals...it's just if you're after a pure goalscorer, he's not the guy.

It always confuses me when he's linked to United. Like Rooney, he's a striker whose contribution to a team is so much more than just goals. He doesn't just stay up front, he likes to pick up the ball from the wings or a bit deeper. I'm just not sure they would work together.

He gets a good amount of goals considering he plays for an average side. He's no Ruud, but he is capable of producing moments of magic, beating players and getting on the end of passes etc. His movement is really good and he can score all kinds. He's probably my most wanted signing tbh. I think he can become a good goalscorer for Utd, but as proved you dont need a 30 goal per season guy is you have a bunch of match winners and goal scorers throughout.

our success this year is down to having match winners everywhere and torres is another one. its not whether liverpool have a 30 goals man or not, its if they can get a player who can make that difference against teams like chelsea and man utd. torres showed how good he was at thw WC and he would be great with ronaldo and rooney, and hopefully rossi. 4 top strikers is necessary imo.
 
hadereud - I criticise Keane a lot, I dont rate him as a captain and he didnt leave a nice legacy behind, but I dont care about what happened with haaland. thats personal between two men and the consequences will be what they will be.

for what its worth, some guy ran into me from behind a couple weeks ago and stood on my ankle deliberately, spraining it in the process. I was on the ground in a lot of pain and he turns round and says "f*cking get up you cheating c*nt" (which is what halaand did to keane while he was down in pain)

I can totally understand how keano felt, if I had been able to get back on the pitch, I probably would have tried to hurt him badly and i spent the rest of the day hoping he had some kind of accident or someone else would injure him. Nothing pisses you off more than that when you're already annoyed at getting injured. (the fact it was deliberate only made it worse)

i can totally relate to what keane did and it actually wasnt what ended his career anyways.
 
Cornballer said:
-----------------Mad-Jens-----------------

:lol


kaizoku said:
Shinobi fair points, but those stats are misleading. In 2003 Wenger's side were finally called up on their ridiculous disciplinary record, they were criticised by one and all, even the EPL and the FA. They sucessfully reduced their cards tally in 2004 and 2005 to top the fair play leagues which is all well and good - but that doesn't mean their antics stopped.

For example when Man Utd beat you guys to end your 49 game unbeaten run, the players were spotted wearing t-shirts saying "50 games unbeaten, we did it!" which is funny - never got to reveal them to the world thank god. so damn arrogant though isnt it? almost stupidly so.

They then started a ruck in the tunnel by throwing food. Classy. Man Utd had to take the moral high ground by not taking it any further - like the mature older brother. Wenger of course didn't see it! We even instigated talks between clubs to reduce the tension to prevent further embarassment from occurring. (the players did actually have a fight in the dressing room but that was covered up ;) Man Utd "won" :D)

Then you have the divers and cheats. Its interesting that so many Arsenal fans suddenly acknowledge that Ashley Cole is a snivelling little cheat when he stabbed them in the back. um...he was hated long before that and for a long time he was the typical Arsenal player. With the likes of Pires, Vieira and Cole leaving the cheating isnt so prevalent anymore, but you still have the laughable Lehmann etc. Your Fabregas-led era should have less cheating hopefully, this this has been a part of the Arsenal make up for so long.

Actually if you look at the Wenger wiki page there is a whole section devoted to "Controversies" :D says it all really. Man Utd fans have always enjoyed those aspects as we often come out looking better rather than brushing it under the carpet.

p.s. Man Utd are far from flawless. Most of my football posts are about man utd flaws (just not on here lately) and Fergie has some glaring flaws. Tactics being just one.

:lol So this is what it's all about? Still going on about "Pizza Gate"? The match where the Neville brothers used Reyes as a second football? The ridiculous dive from Rooney that somehow earned a penalty kick for one of the biggest, most hated cheats in EPL history (something you Mancs agree with now that he's no longer wearing red...gee, funny how that works!) Oh but since the ref didn't call any of that shit, then that was simply appropriate and classy play from you guys. :lol It happened three and a half ****ing years ago for ****'s sake...there's maybe four Arsenal players left from that lineup that's still with the squad. Maybe you're still bitter that despite ending our streak, beating us twice, and playing us off the park in Cardiff, you still finished behind us in the league and had to watch us lift the FA Cup in your sorry faces with tears welling up in your eyes. Either way, you really need to get over it...in the current scheme of things, that Arsenal squad isn't even relevant anymore. Hell, Wenger and Fergie are actually semi-complimentary of each other these days, something that didn't even occur in private back then. Concentrate all you hate on Chelsea...in case you haven't realized, they're your biggest (only) threat at the moment.

In other news, Eto'os been making noise about having a desire to play in the EPL if he were to leave Barca, with Chelsea and Arsenal being teams that have caught his eye the last few months (but not Man U? Huh?). As I said before, the only way we get him is if we're swapping Henry and getting ten mill back in return. And unless Henry's injury problems are a long term issue, I'd rather keep him than Ego'o, er Eto'o.
 
my Arsenal line up against PSV WITH Henry

-------------------Jens---------------------
--Eboue----Gallas----Toure-----Clichy--
Hleb---Fabregas---Gilberto---Ljungberg
-----------Adebayor----Henry------------

Subs: Walcott, Denilson, Aliadiere, Baptista, Djourou, Almunia

WITHOUT Henry

-------------------Jens---------------------
--Eboue----Gallas----Toure-----Clichy--
Hleb---Fabregas---Gilberto---Ljungberg
-----------Walcott----Baptista------------

Subs: Adeboyer, Denilson, Aliadiere, Djourou, Almunia
 
kaizoku said:
Shinobi fair points, but those stats are misleading. In 2003 Wenger's side were finally called up on their ridiculous disciplinary record, they were criticised by one and all, even the EPL and the FA. They sucessfully reduced their cards tally in 2004 and 2005 to top the fair play leagues which is all well and good - but that doesn't mean their antics stopped.

For example when Man Utd beat you guys to end your 49 game unbeaten run, the players were spotted wearing t-shirts saying "50 games unbeaten, we did it!" which is funny - never got to reveal them to the world thank god. so damn arrogant though isnt it? almost stupidly so.

They then started a ruck in the tunnel by throwing food. Classy. Man Utd had to take the moral high ground by not taking it any further - like the mature older brother. Wenger of course didn't see it! We even instigated talks between clubs to reduce the tension to prevent further embarassment from occurring. (the players did actually have a fight in the dressing room but that was covered up ;) Man Utd "won" :D)

Then you have the divers and cheats. Its interesting that so many Arsenal fans suddenly acknowledge that Ashley Cole is a snivelling little cheat when he stabbed them in the back. um...he was hated long before that and for a long time he was the typical Arsenal player. With the likes of Pires, Vieira and Cole leaving the cheating isnt so prevalent anymore, but you still have the laughable Lehmann etc. Your Fabregas-led era should have less cheating hopefully, this this has been a part of the Arsenal make up for so long.

Actually if you look at the Wenger wiki page there is a whole section devoted to "Controversies" :D says it all really. Man Utd fans have always enjoyed those aspects as we often come out looking better rather than brushing it under the carpet.

p.s. Man Utd are far from flawless. Most of my football posts are about man utd flaws (just not on here lately) and Fergie has some glaring flaws. Tactics being just one.
Sometimes I totally agree with you and you are totally on point ( Champions league stuff you said a few weeks back) but when your off, your really really off... and for some reason your always off when it comes to Arsenal. Maybe its dealing with reasonably nice Arsenal supporters ( namely my in laws who are all gooners) but I really don't hate Arsenal or even Liverpool in fact the only team in the epl I hate is Chelsea but even then I dunno some of this soap opera he said this, no he said bullshit is just rediculous and is imo the side of sports that is shameful and pointless.
 
I still don't think Torres and Rooney would work together. It's like when England try and play Rooney and Crouch together, they both drop off the front and leave no one up. Just doesn't work.

Now if one of them can learn to stay up, that's a different issue. The way they are now though...
 
Updated Champions League Predictions

Arsenal vs. PSV
Chelsea vs. FC Porto
Liverpool vs. Barcelona
Lyon vs. Roma
Valencia vs. Inter
AC Milan vs. Celtic
Bayern Munich vs. Real Madrid
Manchester United vs. Lille
 
my predictions for the first games (overall winners bold)
Celtic 1 - 1 Milan
PSV 1 - 3 Arsenal
Lille 0 - 1 Man. United
Real Madrid 3 - 1 Lederhosen
Roma 1 - 1 Lyon
Barcelona 1 - 0 Liverpool
Porto 0 - 1 Chelsea
Inter 1 - 0 Valencia
Arsenal 3 - 1 PSV
Chelsea 0 - 0 FC Porto
Liverpool 2 - 3 Barcelona
Lyon 1 - 0 Roma
Valencia 0 - 1 Inter
AC Milan 3 - 1 Celtic
Munich 1 - 2 Real Madrid
Manchester United 1 - 0 Lille

the only overall winner that I thought about changing was obviously Liverpool - but I'm still not sure it's going to happen, so I went with a dramatic 2:3 loss, even though I'd like Liverpool to go through.
Inter will scrape through I think.
 
I really don't know what the outcome of that game is going to be, needless to say it'll be the hardest game of this season. I don't know if I can bear to watch it, especially after the rumour that I've heard -- Dudek in goal, Reina injured. :(
 
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