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Official Gran Turismo HD Concept Thread
- Thread starter TTP
- Start date
Ynos Yrros said:
Car physics in GT Concept and GT Four "perfect"? Don't embarrass yourself with that comment. GT 4 used 60pfs for physics calculations. Forza 240fps and Forza 2 360fps. I'm not sure about GTR 2 and Live for Speed on the PC.
PD makes the best car models in the world, but they've weak in the physics (60fps sampling) and realism category (tire smoke and no skid marks???). You make like how it handles and that's fine, but it's far from "perfect". Saying GT 4's physics were "perfect" is assinine and reeks of fanboy.
mr_nothin said:
I'm confused. 2008 'til PD is done with GT HD... That's a long time. Why are they still working on a free demo? Are they going to add in online and start charging?
Why aren't they working 24 X 7 now on GT 5. It takes a couple of years to build a game like that, why don't they get started? I don't get it. Does anyone know what they have left to do on GT HD?
GT 5 could be the killer app, that gets me to buy a PS3. I don't want a prettier GT HD. I want GT 5 and I don't want to wait 'til 2010 for it!
tjhooker said:
So, they aren't going to start over? They'll just tack on some new features to the GT 4 engine and make it GT 5? That doesn't sound right to me. GT 4 shipped in 2005 and development started around 2003 if memory serves me right. Code written in 2003 for the emotion chip should be thrown out, not patched. That engine is dated. Gears of War and Resistance wouldn't use and engine written for the PS2 and the Xbox in 2003-2005... That stuff gets re-written.
Also, when are you expecting GT 5 if they don't finish GT HD until 2008? A week later? They just change the name one day and boom, you've got GT 5?
I'm ready for the "thinking" you were talking about. :lol
Ynos Yrros
Banned
How about some reading before you answer? I don't give a f' about how many frames the physics are being calculated (we only see outcome in 60 frames, doesn't matter if the calculations are being made 360 times, when 300 of them won't be represented in the game).Jack B said:
Physics are perfect to me, driving in GT feels better. Did I say the most realistic? No, but I still think they are more realistic than what was shown in FORZA 1 when it comes to the cars I really care about.
I think he meant reading, it's obviously not one of your strong points.
It was already said in this thread, that this info comes from times when GT HD was announced as two projects: Premium and Classic. They were supposed to be DLC based games. That project was canceled since then, and Polyphony released GTHD Concept instead. They also announced that there will be GT5 Prologue later this year, and GT5 sometimes in first half of 2008.
Jack B said:
They are making car models...and often they'll show them off in GTHD. They are still overhauling a lot of it to make GT5...they have a big team, and they have to make the car models as well...which takes them bloody ages...so why not show off "just the car models" (the best car models around) in their demo GTHD?
GT5 will be significantly better...best yet. Damage anyone?
You're slow...Jack B said:
It will work like that precisely.
Here are the more likely possibilities:
GTHD = a free demo until GT5 comes out.
GTHD = something like GT Concept for sale.
GTHD = 'in-between' GT's because GT5 will take a long time until its done (for damage and licensing for damage and all that) - Something like a semi-sequel. (the same way GT2000 was suppose to be)
GTHD = will probably be canned and they will just release GT5 when it's done
The last one is the most likely one.
If you didnt know...GTHD is something like a long ass alpha/beta for GT5.
Disclaimer = only a few examples given because i dont feel like typing the rest.
Ynos Yrros said:
You need to understand a little about sampling rates. A car traveling at 200 miles per hour covers 293 feet per second. Sampling the physics at 60 fps means you cover 4' 10" between samples... Imagine going over a pothole in the road that is 4' 9" wide.... That's a lot of road not to sample. 360fps sampling gives you 10" between samples at 200 miles per hour. 4'10" vs 10" is a HUGE difference.
A lot of bumps in the road happen in 5 feet of road. Hell you can run over a human body and not even know it if you only sample every 5 feet.
Physics sampling fps is different than visual fps.
As for you personally preferring the feel to GT 4, that's fine. Nothing wrong with having a preference, but there is a huge difference to the level of car taken by different sims when calculating the physics of car handling. Someone may prefer the feel of drifting in PGR 3, that doesn't make it a sim at the level of GTR 2.
ThunderC4T
Member
in GT Series yes your are right:lolThirdEye said:
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Yes, I know, but now prove to me that GT4 samples only once per frame.Jack B said:
Ynos Yrros said:
That's been known for years. I'm surprised you didn't know. GT 4 had 60fps graphics and 60fps physics. Forza had 30fps graphics and 240fps physics.
GT 4 had the better frame rate. Forza had the better physics sampling rate. Forza 2 upped it to 60fps and 360fps physics. They had to drop to 720p to make it happen. GT 5 is currently set for 1080p and 60fps. Hope PD can pull it off. I haven't heard anything about their physics sampling rate, but I'm pretty sure they won't want to get shown up. The question is can they pull all that off and keep those car models.
Maybe, but certainly not with the GT 4 engine. They likely need to get busy an re-write the physics engine for the PS3. Hope that's exactly what they are doing.
bouc_emissaire
Who Compares, Wins
Comparison Updated (and i deleted the Skyline, sorry) :
Ynos Yrros
Banned
I didn't know that. That's weird considering how much more realistic Supra and Skyline are in GT.Jack B said:
I see dead skylines :O.
Forsete said:
Fair enough. I'll see if I can find a URL, that isn't forum posters... Until, then I'll take it back. It could be urban legend. I've not seen that challenged before, but it's a fair request.
This part is not fair enough, IMO. If Borys hasn't changed much from his Evil Avatar days, then he makes short snotty posts and has no time for facts. A long post for Borys is about 3 sentences. He has plenty of opinion, he just doesn't have much time for research or quality discussion.
Case in point. His comments about me.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Jack B said:
In theory you seem to be correct but in practise I doubt the higher physics resolution/framerate caused Forza to be more realistic. GT4's physics model seemed to have much more pre-programmed physics to simulate full realtime physics. It worked but only to a certain extend. And if the physics model is flawed to begin with, the higher framerate is going to do nothing to improve it. This goes for the screwy tire physics in Forza.
Besides that, it also depends on the way the tracks are being modelled. If tracks are smooth to begin with, the higher res physics model isn't going to do shit. It would mean that most forces on the suspension will be exerted as a constant or as constant acceleration with minimum variation. In which case the framerate wouldn't mean as much as with a more detailed track.
PjotrStroganov said:
I'd agree with most of your comments. It's true if the road in a game doesn't have potholes, then it's not as important, but if games are using satellite photos, GPS and other methods to accurately simulate these suraces, we should see more realistic irregularities in next gen tracks.
We still do have plenty of rumble strips and inclines, that happen in a 5' stretch of road. I would agree though, that you could do some faking by extrapolating what the car is likely to encounter in between the 5' of road. It's not as realistic, but it wouldn't be noticed by many drivers.
I'd also agree, that you could sample 720 times per second, but if your physics model isn't good or deep, then it's just one factor.
I will disagree with the Forza tire model. They spent a lot of time on tires, load, friction, heat, wear etc and although they weren't perfect, they were a step up, IMO. In Forza 2 they claim to have spent 3 months solid working on the tire physics model with Toyo, Bridgestone etc. Hope it's excellent. Hope GT 5 does even better. I want all race sims to push each other. We win as sim fans when they do.
Personally I don't mind if GT sticks to 1 car per track with no damage, so that we can compete via times. It seems to be the strength of the GT series...that it's a great driving simulator but not that great of a racing game.
And this is coming from someone who used to have monthly GT3 "LAN" parties.
And this is coming from someone who used to have monthly GT3 "LAN" parties.
Jack B said:
Saying GT4 had perfect physics is stupid, but thinking that Forza (even Forza 2 for that matter) can even be GROUPED with GTR or LFS is just as stupid.
Forza and GT are both bullshit when it comes to physics, and NEITHER of them come close to PC sims, pull your head out of your ass.
As for Tire physics, Forza is garbage, just as GT is garbage. Neither of them handle heat up well, or lose traction appropriately according to the weight and force of the car. I doubt, HIGHLY doubt, that Forza 2 is going to be much different.
nelsonroyale
Member
Fight for Freeform said:
GT has never been 1 car per track...the game will have at least 6....it would be the biggest load of trash ever if it had...and it should have damage...its about time for this series.
Its about the only driving game Im into, barring mario kart and a bit of motorstorm...but it also needs to improve
peace
DOBERMAN INC
Member
tjhooker said:
why the hell do people do this shit?, boggles the mind
