Ina Lillahi Wa Ina Ilayhi Raajioon.
< click to go to dictionary definition.
This is from 2:156
Translation:
translation source.
More information here.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Official Islamic Thread
- Thread starter AmMortal
- Start date
Ina Lillahi Wa Ina Ilayhi Raajioon.
< click to go to dictionary definition.
This is from 2:156
Translation:
translation source.
More information here.
crazy monkey
Banned
CHEEZMO;45690778 said:
where can we read it?
Clay Davis
Member
google it, the first link is to a pdf for a book. I think it's the book anyway.
even rahma has it's limits.
If i went up to you and called your mother a whore and spread false rumors about her everyday to everyone and sundry would you show rahma?
if you ask a jew who was the best of people from moses time they would say his floowers.
If you ask a christian on the best after jesus they would say his disciples.
If you ask a shia who are the worst of people they would say the sahaba.
Rahma has it's limits
Terra Firma
Banned
The beliefs of the ithna-Ashariya (twelver) Shi'as are out of the fold of Islam. This is to differentiate between Shi'as and Shi'a belief. Shi'a scholars are unanimously outside of Islam as they know and understand these kufr beliefs yet accept them. The lay Shi'a may or may not be deemed outside of Islam if he is ignorant of the kufr beliefs of the Twelvers.
The Zaydi Shi'as (those of Yemen) are not outside of Islam but are outside of the Ahlus Sunnah. That means that they are still considered Muslim as they do not accept the kufr beliefs of the Twelvers. In the majority of their beliefs, they differ only in politics and the issue of Khilafah from the Sunnis (i.e. they believe that Ali RA was the best to lead instead of Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA but they do not do takfeer of the two shaykhain).
What are these kufr beliefs?
The most important belief of the Twelver Shi'a is that of the divine imamate. These twelve imams have so much knowledge that they even had knowledge of their own death, something even the Prophet PBUH did not have. The Shi'as also believe that after only the Prophet PBUH, the imams are the best of creation - i.e. they are better than all the other prophets. In essence, the imams are the same as prophets except they aren't called prophets. So, in reality, that is a denial of the finality of prophethood. These imams can even receive wahi.
The second kufr belief is that of tahreef of the Qur'an - i.e. changing of Qur'an. The Shi'as believe that the sahabas changed the Qur'an by adding to it and/or removing from it. They have a narration among themselves that Ali RA had this Qur'an and when he approached Uthman RA about it, he was shunned away. The Shi'as believe that their hidden 12th imam will come with this so-called "complete" Qur'an.
The third kufr belief is the takfeer of the sahabas and the pure wives of the Prophet PBUH. Many Shi'as would deny this but their own scholars have said this. The Shi'a curse Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA. They hold the belief that it was Aisha RA and Hafsa RA who killed the Prophet PBUH. They believe Aisha RA to be a kafir. You might or might not have heard of someone named Yasir al-Habeeb (read "al-Khabeeth"). The true colours of these Shi'a are apparent in Western countries where they live free from Sunni control. The Shi'a in the UK, for example, hold celebrations for the death of Aisha RA.
Everything else, including how to pray, mut'ah, khums, etc. are all secondary issues and are not the points that expel one from Islam. The points listed above do.
The biggest problem about dealing with Shi'as is their practice of taqiyyah. Now, practicing taqiyyah in Islam is only acceptable when one's life is in immediate danger. In Shi'ism, that is not the case. They can employ taqiyyah whenever they feel like it - in fact, it is an encouraged act. According to their own books, taqiyyah is a praiseworthy act and the preferred act. There is even an alleged narration from one of their imams that he gave one answer to one person and after that person had left, he gave a different answer to another person with the same question. When asked about this by his followers, he said that this is taqiyyah and it is praiseworthy.
So, lying is better than telling the truth or even remaining silent. If a Shi'a is confronted with these beliefs that are found in their books and from their scholars, he will reject them openly but accept them secretly. That is why Sunnis have to be adamant about the kufr of these beliefs.
NB: The imams of the Shi'a are free from their lies. We believe that the 11 imams were all righteous Muslims. The first few were knowledgeable scholars, the latter few were not but were still Muslims. There is no twelfth imam since the 11th imam had no son. Imam Mahdi is not the "twelfth imam" and is not hiding out in some cave somewhere with a so-called complete Qur'an. He will be born and live a normal lifespan, not a life spanning over 1400 years.
The Zaydi Shi'as (those of Yemen) are not outside of Islam but are outside of the Ahlus Sunnah. That means that they are still considered Muslim as they do not accept the kufr beliefs of the Twelvers. In the majority of their beliefs, they differ only in politics and the issue of Khilafah from the Sunnis (i.e. they believe that Ali RA was the best to lead instead of Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA but they do not do takfeer of the two shaykhain).
What are these kufr beliefs?
The most important belief of the Twelver Shi'a is that of the divine imamate. These twelve imams have so much knowledge that they even had knowledge of their own death, something even the Prophet PBUH did not have. The Shi'as also believe that after only the Prophet PBUH, the imams are the best of creation - i.e. they are better than all the other prophets. In essence, the imams are the same as prophets except they aren't called prophets. So, in reality, that is a denial of the finality of prophethood. These imams can even receive wahi.
The second kufr belief is that of tahreef of the Qur'an - i.e. changing of Qur'an. The Shi'as believe that the sahabas changed the Qur'an by adding to it and/or removing from it. They have a narration among themselves that Ali RA had this Qur'an and when he approached Uthman RA about it, he was shunned away. The Shi'as believe that their hidden 12th imam will come with this so-called "complete" Qur'an.
The third kufr belief is the takfeer of the sahabas and the pure wives of the Prophet PBUH. Many Shi'as would deny this but their own scholars have said this. The Shi'a curse Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA. They hold the belief that it was Aisha RA and Hafsa RA who killed the Prophet PBUH. They believe Aisha RA to be a kafir. You might or might not have heard of someone named Yasir al-Habeeb (read "al-Khabeeth"). The true colours of these Shi'a are apparent in Western countries where they live free from Sunni control. The Shi'a in the UK, for example, hold celebrations for the death of Aisha RA.
Everything else, including how to pray, mut'ah, khums, etc. are all secondary issues and are not the points that expel one from Islam. The points listed above do.
The biggest problem about dealing with Shi'as is their practice of taqiyyah. Now, practicing taqiyyah in Islam is only acceptable when one's life is in immediate danger. In Shi'ism, that is not the case. They can employ taqiyyah whenever they feel like it - in fact, it is an encouraged act. According to their own books, taqiyyah is a praiseworthy act and the preferred act. There is even an alleged narration from one of their imams that he gave one answer to one person and after that person had left, he gave a different answer to another person with the same question. When asked about this by his followers, he said that this is taqiyyah and it is praiseworthy.
So, lying is better than telling the truth or even remaining silent. If a Shi'a is confronted with these beliefs that are found in their books and from their scholars, he will reject them openly but accept them secretly. That is why Sunnis have to be adamant about the kufr of these beliefs.
NB: The imams of the Shi'a are free from their lies. We believe that the 11 imams were all righteous Muslims. The first few were knowledgeable scholars, the latter few were not but were still Muslims. There is no twelfth imam since the 11th imam had no son. Imam Mahdi is not the "twelfth imam" and is not hiding out in some cave somewhere with a so-called complete Qur'an. He will be born and live a normal lifespan, not a life spanning over 1400 years.
Tizoc
Member
Ina Lillahi Wa Ina Ilayhi Raajioon.
< click to go to dictionary definition.
This is from 2:156
Translation:
translation source.
More information here.
Apologies for the late reply, but thanks for the links, will keep them bookmarked for future reference.
OttomanScribe
Member
'The Islam women were promised'
by Shaykh Musa Furber.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...47419f6-54e5-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_blog.html
Great article, Sheikh Habib Ali Jifri linked to it.
'The earliest generation of Muslims took pride in their compliance to the Koran’s injunction to abandon female infanticide, an act that was often done to prevent shame to the family. Thus for centuries, Muslims have taken pride in their contributions to the rising status of women. But what pride is there in abandoning burying one’s young daughters in the sand only for them to grow to adulthood wishing that they had been? These tragically frequent stories of women violated over and over again can only be described as the perversion of Islam, unfortunately, by Muslims themselves.'
by Shaykh Musa Furber.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...47419f6-54e5-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_blog.html
Great article, Sheikh Habib Ali Jifri linked to it.
'The earliest generation of Muslims took pride in their compliance to the Koran’s injunction to abandon female infanticide, an act that was often done to prevent shame to the family. Thus for centuries, Muslims have taken pride in their contributions to the rising status of women. But what pride is there in abandoning burying one’s young daughters in the sand only for them to grow to adulthood wishing that they had been? These tragically frequent stories of women violated over and over again can only be described as the perversion of Islam, unfortunately, by Muslims themselves.'
RustyNails
Member
So I was thinking about the Prophet Muhammad movie announced by Matrix and LOTR producer a while back, and decided to dig up a little. Turns out a lot of things have happened since it was announced. The movie was originally planned as a trilogy with $200m budget. Now it's planned as a 7-part episodic movie with a budget of $1.2b. Wow. The script was also scrapped and rewritten. Link:
Hollywood script writers didnt come up with a wow storyline for Prophet Mohammed biopic
Here's info about the budget
Hollywood script writers didnt come up with a wow storyline for Prophet Mohammed biopic
Here's info about the budget
It's gonna be a difficult sell for sure. Imagine The 10 Commandments but all the scenes of Charlton Heston edited out, with a cut of summary being explained by some person. It's definitely a challenge.
crazy monkey
Banned
^ they should stop just now before they loose all the money.
OttomanScribe
Member
The Umar series has been astoundingly successful. The Message was the same. Don't see why this would be that different.
Sutton Dagger
Member
G'day Muslim Gaf, just wondering if there are any decent documentaries about Islam that I can get access to. I'm interested in the early years and general expansion of Islam. It would be great if the documentary doesn't presuppose supernatural phenomena either (if possible).
Cheers.
Cheers.
OttomanScribe
Member
There was one in the 'Empires' series... but it was umm.. a bit of a green wash (?)
no clear supposition of supernatural phenomena but a bit historically inaccurate on a few points I'd say.RustyNails
Member
Islam: empire of faith by history channel. Its very good.
OttomanScribe
Member
Yeah, that was the one I was thinking of. Unfortunately it is your standard history channel fare.. belying the name and all that.
I have to say, there are very few good history documentaries out there on the real bro.
Sutton Dagger
Member
This one.
Will watch it, though I'm fairly skeptical of the 'History' channel, the same channel that airs such wonderful programs as 'Ancient Aliens' and stuff about Nostradamus... I always find this image particularly amusing.
It's a shame that there isn't much about Islam from reputable sources in the documentary style.
I might also have a line of questioning for you guys/gals as well.
What role does sin play in Islam? Do Muslims share the concept of 'original sin' with Christianity (derived from the Torah)?
Will watch it, though I'm fairly skeptical of the 'History' channel, the same channel that airs such wonderful programs as 'Ancient Aliens' and stuff about Nostradamus... I always find this image particularly amusing.
It's a shame that there isn't much about Islam from reputable sources in the documentary style.
I might also have a line of questioning for you guys/gals as well.
What role does sin play in Islam? Do Muslims share the concept of 'original sin' with Christianity (derived from the Torah)?
This one.
Will watch it, though I'm fairly skeptical of the 'History' channel, the same channel that airs such wonderful programs as 'Ancient Aliens' and stuff about Nostradamus... I always find this image particularly amusing.
It's a shame that there isn't much about Islam from reputable sources in the documentary style.
I might also have a line of questioning for you guys/gals as well.
What role does sin play in Islam? Do Muslims share the concept of 'original sin' with Christianity (derived from the Torah)?
No, babies are born pure and sinless. There are a variety of minor and major sins an individual can commit but the only unforgivable one is "Shirk". Shirk translates to idolatry essentially. Worshipping created things. That's the only one that can't be forgiven.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
You should put a comma after the No... otherwise people can easily misinterpret your sentence.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Ahaha yes, which I what I thought it implied before I read your post
I must say, that is at least one thing I can respect about Islam in comparison to most Christian doctrines, the idea of original sin is totally abhorrent to me.
Anyone have a 'list' (if it can be boiled down to such) of what can be considered sins? I've seen a couple but I'm not sure how accurate they are.
ZiZ
Member
Ahaha yes, which I what I thought it implied before I read your post
I must say, that is at least one thing I can respect about Islam in comparison to most Christian doctrines, the idea of original sin is totally abhorrent to me.
Anyone have a 'list' (if it can be boiled down to such) of what can be considered sins? I've seen a couple but I'm not sure how accurate they are.
maybe a list of the major ones, but a list of all sins would be impossible sins different people have different views on what is considered a sin.
OttomanScribe
Member
The word 'sin' comes with a lot of Christian baggage. Those are the problems with language I guess. Sin is conceptualised in terms of acts that turn the believer away from God. Khufr (disbelief in God) and shirk (associating partners with God) being the highest and gravest of such acts. Some acts are so grave (adultery for example) that when one is committing them, they are 'in a state of disbelief'.
The term 'tawbah' is often translated as 'repentance' but it really has a conceptual meaning distinct from that word. Tawbah is the act of turning towards God, away from an act that is abhorrent. It is not merely a verbal regret of a past act, but an active making up for it, leaving the act and, where possible, making recompense for it.
You have sparked me on a quest, I will look into it more and maybe write more later insha'Allah.
The term 'tawbah' is often translated as 'repentance' but it really has a conceptual meaning distinct from that word. Tawbah is the act of turning towards God, away from an act that is abhorrent. It is not merely a verbal regret of a past act, but an active making up for it, leaving the act and, where possible, making recompense for it.
You have sparked me on a quest, I will look into it more and maybe write more later insha'Allah.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Interesting, thanks guys. I'd like to take a look at that as well OS. So disbelief is an 'unforgivable' sin then, as in it's punishable by eternity in hell?
I had a really weird thought today about myself as an Atheist and it's implications for Muslims, particularly in Australia. Stick with me here...but what if I said that for me personally being an Atheist, it is actually more beneficial for Islam than if I was a Muslim... (I can explain why I think this way) and maybe that's God way of bringing more people to the faith, at the expense of my personal salvation?
p.s I've had quite a few drinks so I apologise if I'm rambling
I had a really weird thought today about myself as an Atheist and it's implications for Muslims, particularly in Australia. Stick with me here...but what if I said that for me personally being an Atheist, it is actually more beneficial for Islam than if I was a Muslim... (I can explain why I think this way) and maybe that's God way of bringing more people to the faith, at the expense of my personal salvation?
p.s I've had quite a few drinks so I apologise if I'm rambling
FlutterPuffs
Member
There's an official Muslim thread? Awesome.
*subscribes*
Muslim brother from Malaysia here folks! Nice to meet all of you.
*subscribes*
Muslim brother from Malaysia here folks! Nice to meet all of you.
Terra Firma
Banned
In Islam, you can repent for every sin, including shirk. Shirk is basically associating partners with God - idolatry is a type of shirk but is not the be all, end all of it. Believing that the cure of a disease lies in a pill is also a form of shirk. A Muslim must believe that the cure is placed within the cure by God and that the pill is not innately the cure.
What is meant by forgiveness is a sin that one does not repent from in this life. God can forgive sins that one does not repent from either by ignorance or for some other reason. If a person, for example, drinks alcohol, knowing that it is forbidden in Islam, but does not repent, he still has a chance of being forgiven for it, despite not repenting.
On the other hand, if a person commits shirk (associates partners with God) and does not repent before his death, then this is the sin that is unforgivable. But if a person commits shirk but realizes his error before his death and asks for forgiveness sincerely, then even his shirk will be, God-willing, be forgiven.
What is meant by forgiveness is a sin that one does not repent from in this life. God can forgive sins that one does not repent from either by ignorance or for some other reason. If a person, for example, drinks alcohol, knowing that it is forbidden in Islam, but does not repent, he still has a chance of being forgiven for it, despite not repenting.
On the other hand, if a person commits shirk (associates partners with God) and does not repent before his death, then this is the sin that is unforgivable. But if a person commits shirk but realizes his error before his death and asks for forgiveness sincerely, then even his shirk will be, God-willing, be forgiven.
Sutton Dagger
Member
I think I missed something, but what does "associates partners with God" mean?
If you put a created object on the level of God.
Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods, or demons, power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money etc.
A drug addict, someone who worships the state, or a greedy individual is probably not going to go into paradise. Islam is about moderation. It promotes a moderate lifestyle.
If you have even an atom's worth of faith you're good. Islam promotes the idea of everyone being in a common community under a single God. How you want to rationalize the semantics is up to you but that's the main point of Submission to God. We are all from the same creator that is above and beyond everything else. All of us and the universe are dependent on it.
ZiZ
Member
I disagree with you there, sins like greed, and drugs don't exclude you from heaven.
"associates partners with God" is more about things like like believing a priest or a saint or some other being can grant you access into heaven or cure you or give you good fortune.
worshiping the state? not unless they believe that the state is some holy entity with divine powers, otherwise, I highly doubt anybody is going to hell because they idolized their local football team.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Well, I'm all good on that front, seeing as I don't worship anything.
What is it about faith that is so important? My definition of faith would essentially be 'believing in something despite a lack of evidence or even evidence to the contrary'. I'm not seeing any value in that notion whatsoever.
Is faith the be and end all, or can 'works' supersede faith?
OttomanScribe
Member
Dying in a state of disbelief is more the issue. There are, as Terra said, no unforgivable sins.
Elaborate?I had a really weird thought today about myself as an Atheist and it's implications for Muslims, particularly in Australia. Stick with me here...but what if I said that for me personally being an Atheist, it is actually more beneficial for Islam than if I was a Muslim... (I can explain why I think this way) and maybe that's God way of bringing more people to the faith, at the expense of my personal salvation?
p.s I've had quite a few drinks so I apologise if I'm rambling
I would disagree on this count. Shirk is more broad reaching than that, idolatry more insipid. Anything that attributes cause to other than God approaches shirk.
You too akhi. Asalaamu alaykum wa rahmetullah
Faith is used as a substitute for the Arabic word 'iman' which I would say is not really a direct translation. Iman relates to belief in the various articles of faith, but it doesn't end there. Part of iman is the relationship it has with niyat, intention. Every action is judged according to its intent. In this respect, only those acts done with intention that they be for the sake of Allah, are taken as such.
Thus there is a relationship between works and 'faith'. One can be works rich but faith poor and therefore be in a bad spot. The opposite is also true. Islam does not have a works based idea of 'salvation'. No one gets into heaven on the strength of their works, rather, God uses their works as a way through which mercy is brought to bear. This is shown, for example, in the way that good deeds are skewed on the scales against bad deeds.
ZiZ
Member
yeah, those were just the most obvious examples, I realize there is stuff like lesser shirk or "reeya" and things like believing in horoscopes might be considered shirk.
BBC did one last year on the Life of the Prophet s.a.w, it was surprisingly good and balanced. Really enjoyed watching it, 5 part series if I remember correctly and I think it may still be out on youtube.
This is the full series in 3 hours, if you search they will have the individual episodes. Sorry, too lazy to put them all here.
dripdripsplash
Member
Asalam alaikum!
I'm a new member of NeoGAF and have just got my account approved a couple of days ago. I've always kept a eye on this thread because it has provided me much knowledge about my religion and given me different perspectives and views on some of the most discussed topics of Islam.
I enjoy discussing Islam with my friends and I've had many discussions about the future of Islam, specifically the topic of an Khilafah State.
Many people see an Islamic State as a religious dictatorship and does not understand the thoughts behind it and why some Muslims wish for this kind of nation. When I think of the Khilafah State, I think of the Abu Bakr and Umar Ibn Khattab, which led the Muslim Ummah to the peak of power at that time.
The question I'm trying to ask is, if the prospect of an new Khilafah is possible in the future of the Middle East ? And if there actually IS any need of for the re-establishment of an Khilafah state or if it's just an unrealistic wish for a return to times that are long gone ?
I'd love to hear your opinion on this!
I'm a new member of NeoGAF and have just got my account approved a couple of days ago. I've always kept a eye on this thread because it has provided me much knowledge about my religion and given me different perspectives and views on some of the most discussed topics of Islam.
I enjoy discussing Islam with my friends and I've had many discussions about the future of Islam, specifically the topic of an Khilafah State.
Many people see an Islamic State as a religious dictatorship and does not understand the thoughts behind it and why some Muslims wish for this kind of nation. When I think of the Khilafah State, I think of the Abu Bakr and Umar Ibn Khattab, which led the Muslim Ummah to the peak of power at that time.
The question I'm trying to ask is, if the prospect of an new Khilafah is possible in the future of the Middle East ? And if there actually IS any need of for the re-establishment of an Khilafah state or if it's just an unrealistic wish for a return to times that are long gone ?
I'd love to hear your opinion on this!
Terra Firma
Banned
Wa 'alaykum as-salaam
Khilafah being established is a sign of the end times so it is inevitable, whether we try for it or not.
But we should still strive for it, as we are to strive for goodness and there is only goodness in following the blessed sunnah. Even so, we should not do so at the expense of other aspects of Islam, as some people and groups do, such as the group 'Hizb-ut-Tahrir', who have made it their sole goal to reestablish a khilafa, yet a lot of their members don't follow the sunnah and you'll find many not even establishing salah.
Establishing a khilafah would be fardh kifayah, at most. Jihad, on the other hand, is fardh kifayah at the very least.
something for the heart:
* Qari Abdul Basit (Peak of youth) - al-Rahman
* Most Beautiful Azaan I have ever heard
* Qari Abdul Basit (Peak of youth) - al-Rahman
* Most Beautiful Azaan I have ever heard
thequickandthedead
Member
What do you guys think of Ahmed Deedat and dr. Zakir Naik?
RustyNails
Member
I used to watch Ahmed Deedat VHS tapes when I was kid and then watched Zakir Naik vids too. The Jimmy Swaggart vs Ahmed Deedat debate was an eye opener to me. Same with Zakir Naik.
I think they're little too confrontational for my tastes, even though I love Ahmed Deedat.
One of my friend's friend uploaded this interesting document about Muslims shaping early America: http://www.mpac.org/publications/policy-papers/muslims-and-the-making-of-america.php#.URrZlanU5E9
I haven't read the paper yet... But my friend works or used to work in the Obama Administration... So its legit source and according to him it sheds new light on this subject.
I haven't read the paper yet... But my friend works or used to work in the Obama Administration... So its legit source and according to him it sheds new light on this subject.
The North Frieze on the Supreme Court building in Washington, DC and a Quran smack, bang in the middle...
RustyNails
Member
The massive killing of Shias in Pakistan has sent me into this funk where I'm incredibly disappointed/upset/angry at my fellow Muslims. I'm Sunni but some of my best friends are Shias and while I may find some of their rituals really messed up, I can't help but feel so dejected as Muslims are killing each other like this. It's so sad and messed up. Shit like this keeps happening in places like Iraq and Pakistan and there is really no solution to stop it other than long term goals like funding education, which will never happen due to bureaucracy and corruption. Awful, awful awful.
crazy monkey
Banned
Same. I do not understand why would any one do this. I honestly think though it is politics. It does not happen in other countries. They just use that as a political issue and dumb people follow.
archnemesis
Member
Really? What makes you believe that? You have sectarian violence among Muslims all over the world. It's an inherent issue with religions claiming to be the one true faith.
As a person who loves women and hopes for equal rights and better treatment of women throughout the world, I have certain issues with Islam's stance on women.
I am trying to be very sensitive here for obvious reasons but this concerns me. I would love for someone who is a learned Muslim to address the following issues. Please don't take it personally but lets try to be objective of what is written in Muslim religious texts.
If you didn't know, according to the sahih (authentic or reliable) hadiths, Muhammad married a 6 year old named Aisha and consummated it when she was 9 year old. I will quote just several of the hadiths.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.
Because of Muhammad's perversion for a very young girl there are girls today who are forced to marry old men all in the name of Islam. Muhammad's legacy leaves behind horrible consequences for many young girls today.
For examples:
"..this 2008 "Times" article about forced child marriages in Nigeria, reveals that there is "fierce resistance" in its mostly Muslim states to a ban on child marriage, because they see such a ban as contrary to Sharia, which is why only one of them has agreed to a modified form of the ban (which outlaws marriage to pre-pubescent girls):"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5248224.ece
These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal" articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of child marriage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7711554.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75932
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903635604576472011907391364.html
"The "Views of harsh punishments" section of this 2010 Pew Research poll, revealed that most Muslims in Nigeria support 3 grotesque, and extremely violent Sharia punishments (stoning adulterers to death, cutting off the hands of thieves, and executing people who abandon their Muslim faith), and that Muslims in Pakistan, Jordan, and Egypt are even more strongly in favour of those 3 punishment.."
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
"Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all, as this 2008 Associated Press article reveals:"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26042107/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/
"That article quotes Saudi marriage official Ahmad al-Muabi's opinion that fathers can legally sell their 1 year old daughters to husbands if they wish."
"More than 1,000 of the 8,000 forced marriages of Britons each year are believed to involve girls of 15 or under, with one case last year allegedly involving a girl of five."
http://www.*****************/news/a...y-girl-12--long-parents-dont-tell-anyone.html
"Hundreds of girls below the age of 10 each year are forced into marriage in Iran every year -- and the trend is experiencing a dramatic increase."
http://www.ibtimes.com/child-bride-...seeks-lower-girls-legal-marriage-age-9-760263
I am trying to be very sensitive here for obvious reasons but this concerns me. I would love for someone who is a learned Muslim to address the following issues. Please don't take it personally but lets try to be objective of what is written in Muslim religious texts.
If you didn't know, according to the sahih (authentic or reliable) hadiths, Muhammad married a 6 year old named Aisha and consummated it when she was 9 year old. I will quote just several of the hadiths.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.
Because of Muhammad's perversion for a very young girl there are girls today who are forced to marry old men all in the name of Islam. Muhammad's legacy leaves behind horrible consequences for many young girls today.
For examples:
"..this 2008 "Times" article about forced child marriages in Nigeria, reveals that there is "fierce resistance" in its mostly Muslim states to a ban on child marriage, because they see such a ban as contrary to Sharia, which is why only one of them has agreed to a modified form of the ban (which outlaws marriage to pre-pubescent girls):"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5248224.ece
These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal" articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of child marriage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7711554.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75932
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903635604576472011907391364.html
"The "Views of harsh punishments" section of this 2010 Pew Research poll, revealed that most Muslims in Nigeria support 3 grotesque, and extremely violent Sharia punishments (stoning adulterers to death, cutting off the hands of thieves, and executing people who abandon their Muslim faith), and that Muslims in Pakistan, Jordan, and Egypt are even more strongly in favour of those 3 punishment.."
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
"Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all, as this 2008 Associated Press article reveals:"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26042107/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/
"That article quotes Saudi marriage official Ahmad al-Muabi's opinion that fathers can legally sell their 1 year old daughters to husbands if they wish."
"More than 1,000 of the 8,000 forced marriages of Britons each year are believed to involve girls of 15 or under, with one case last year allegedly involving a girl of five."
http://www.*****************/news/a...y-girl-12--long-parents-dont-tell-anyone.html
"Hundreds of girls below the age of 10 each year are forced into marriage in Iran every year -- and the trend is experiencing a dramatic increase."
http://www.ibtimes.com/child-bride-...seeks-lower-girls-legal-marriage-age-9-760263
Now about the whole issue of the allowance of wife beating in Islam. This greatly disturbs me.
Muhammad hit his child wife in this chest. When sleeping with Aisha Muhammad surreptitiously left his bed and went to the graveyard at Baqi; Aisha spied and followed Muhammad; when Muhammad learned Aishas misdeed he hit her (beat her) on her chest that caused much pain to Aisha (Book 004, Number 2127).
The Quran itself and the Sahih hadiths explicitly say and imply it is okay to beat women.
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.
Quran 4:34 says it okay to beat one's wife. That has been the tradition interpretation of the text.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.
Muslim scholars today say that is the correct interpretation and are teaching it is okay to their audiences. This is a fact. This is what is going on in modern times.
Lets read what Muslim scholars in the past have to say. Al-Shafii who lived around 700-800s. He thinks beating your wife is permissible!
"Modern jurists and writers have done their best to weaken this verse by interpreting "rebelliousness" as disobedience and adultery, where beating would be the last means a man can resort to in order to keep the woman from committing that heinous deed.(1) The old jurists and commentators, however, were more realistic and frank. Al-Shafi`i,for example, holds that a man has the right to beat his wife, but abstaining from it (namely from beating) is better."
al-Shafi`i,Kitab al-Umm (Bulaq, 1322 A.H.), 5:100,101. Fakhr al-Razi, 10:9.
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et6.htm
Let's read what Muhammad's
biographer, Ibn Ishaq (around 700s) , wrote what Muhammad said:
"You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things, they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their own persons. (Guillaumes translation,) p. 651)
I would like for a learned muslim to address this.
Muhammad hit his child wife in this chest. When sleeping with Aisha Muhammad surreptitiously left his bed and went to the graveyard at Baqi; Aisha spied and followed Muhammad; when Muhammad learned Aishas misdeed he hit her (beat her) on her chest that caused much pain to Aisha (Book 004, Number 2127).
The Quran itself and the Sahih hadiths explicitly say and imply it is okay to beat women.
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.
Quran 4:34 says it okay to beat one's wife. That has been the tradition interpretation of the text.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.
Muslim scholars today say that is the correct interpretation and are teaching it is okay to their audiences. This is a fact. This is what is going on in modern times.
Lets read what Muslim scholars in the past have to say. Al-Shafii who lived around 700-800s. He thinks beating your wife is permissible!
"Modern jurists and writers have done their best to weaken this verse by interpreting "rebelliousness" as disobedience and adultery, where beating would be the last means a man can resort to in order to keep the woman from committing that heinous deed.(1) The old jurists and commentators, however, were more realistic and frank. Al-Shafi`i,for example, holds that a man has the right to beat his wife, but abstaining from it (namely from beating) is better."
al-Shafi`i,Kitab al-Umm (Bulaq, 1322 A.H.), 5:100,101. Fakhr al-Razi, 10:9.
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et6.htm
Let's read what Muhammad's
biographer, Ibn Ishaq (around 700s) , wrote what Muhammad said:
"You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things, they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their own persons. (Guillaumes translation,) p. 651)
I would like for a learned muslim to address this.
archnemesis
Member
If you're copying large texts from the internet, it's common courtesy to link the original source.
Instigator
Banned
RustyNails
Member
Fuck Pakistan
100 Christian homes destroyed by mobs because of idiocy
100 Christian homes destroyed by mobs because of idiocy
SOO glad my great grandfather did not emigrate to the failed country and instead stayed in India. I am so mad right now. Dont these jahils realize how protected Christians were during Prophet's time? Do they even know that a Christian carpenter rebuilt the Kaaba? Sorry to my Pakistan friends if I offended them but this is outrageous. What the fuck is wrong with your country.
crazy monkey
Banned
Fuck them indeed. What are they doing. Some days ago Blast in shia mosque killed 50 and injured 150.
Do people who commit this act even know what islam is? Seriously. Uneducated about religion and world is causing grief in many parts of the world.
RustyNails
Member
So aggravating. I hope the military just takes over. At least musharraf kept these idiots in check. Fail country fail democracy. Some countries are not meant to be democratic.