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Officials: Alleged Nazi war criminal found in Hungary

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Gaborn

Member
(CNN) -- A worldwide Jewish rights organization is pushing Hungarian authorities to prosecute a man it claims is a Nazi war criminal, recently discovered in Budapest, Hungary, who allegedly sent more than 15,000 Jews to Auschwitz in the spring of 1944.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center found Ladislaus Csizsik-Csatary as part of its "Last Chance" project, said Efraim Zuroff, director of the center's Israel office.

The center cooperated with British tabloid The Sun to photograph Csizsik-Csatary, who reportedly is 97, and ask him questions, Zuroff said. "We're the ones who found him; they're the ones who photographed him."

Csizsik-Csatary served as a senior Hungarian police officer in the city of Kosice, which is now in Slovakia but was under Hungarian rule in the 1940s, the center said. He topped the Wiesenthal Center's 2012 list of most wanted Nazi war criminals.

"He was a commander of a ghetto," Zuroff told CNN.

Csizsik-Csatary participated in the deportation of 15,700 Jews to the Auschwitz concentration camp in 1944, witnesses have told the center. He also played a role in "deportations to the Ukraine to be killed -- 300 Jews," Zuroff said.

"We found eyewitnesses on three different continents," Zuroff said. Those witnesses told the center about Csizsik-Csatary's cruelty to Jewish detainees and his role in the deportations to Auschwitz and Ukraine.

Confronted by a Sun reporter, Csizsik-Csatary denied the allegations, the tabloid reported Sunday.

A witness to the August 1941 Ukraine deportations had nine family members who were deported, he told CNN. Csizsik-Csatary made sure four of them were brought back from forced labor with the Hungarian army so they would be deported and killed, according to Zuroff.

During the Auschwitz deportations, Csizsik-Csatary "forced these girls to dig a ditch with their hands -- young Jewish girls." Two of the center's witnesses were survivors of that deportation, he said.

According to The Sun, which cited documents released by the Wiesenthal Center, Csizsik-Csatary beat Jewish women with a whip he carried on his belt.

"A variety of factors" led to the center's locating Csizsik-Csatary in Budapest, Zuroff said.

"He wasn't hiding under a false name. ... He had no reason to fear."

Using the last name Csizsik, Csizsik-Csatary arrived in Canada in 1949, telling immigration officials he was Yugoslavian, according to The Toronto Star newspaper.


A spokeswoman for Canada's Department of Justice, Carole Saindon, said Monday that "It was alleged that when applying to immigrate to Canada, (Csizsik-Csatary) provided false information about his nationality, and failed to provide information concerning his collaboration with Nazi occupation forces while serving with the Royal Hungarian Police. It was further alleged that he participated in the internment and deportation of thousands of Hungarian Jews to concentration camps. As a result, the government of Canada revoked his citizenship on August 28, 1997.

As deportation proceedings were under way, Csizsik-Csatary voluntarily left the country, Saindon said in an e-mail to CNN.

In October 1997, Paul Vickery, head of the Canadian Justice Department's war crimes unit, told Radio Free Europe that when officials went to Csizsik-Csatary's Toronto home, his daughter told them he was living in Europe. Vickery told the network Csizsik-Csatary's name would be placed on a watch list and he would be barred from re-entering Canada.

Csizsik-Csatary initially denied the allegations and asked the Canadian government to put the case on trial, but later withdrew that request, The Toronto Star reported in August 1997.

"In his statement of defense, Csizsik-Csatary admitted to some involvement in the ghettoization of Jews, to handing over at least two Jews to the Germans and to attending the last mass deportation of Jews out of Kassa (Hungary)," the Star said.

The Sun said in its Sunday report that Csizsik-Csatary's attorneys claimed he did not know where the Jews were being sent. Of the 12,000 Jews transferred from a ghetto to a brickyard and deported, only 450 survived, the Sun reported.

Csizsik-Csatary returned to Hungary upon leaving Canada, Zuroff said. "Hungarian authorities knew that he was back," he said. Authorities in Hungary launched an investigation in September 2011 after receiving information from Zuroff regarding Csizsik-Csatary's residence in Budapest and his role in the Auschwitz deportations, the center said.

The Sun reported Sunday that when a reporter knocked on the door of Csizsik-Csatary's two-bedroom Budapest apartment and asked him if he could justify his past, "He looked shocked and stammered, 'No, no. Go away.'"

Asked about the deportation case in Canada, the Sun said he replied, "No, no, I don't want to discuss it."

The Sun reporter asked, "Do you deny doing it? A lot of people died as a result of your actions," according to the report.

Csizsik-Csatary replied, "No, I didn't do it. Go away from here," and slammed the door, according to the newspaper.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center said in a statement Sunday that Zuroff last week submitted new evidence to a Budapest prosecutor regarding Csizsik-Csatary and his "key role in the deportation of approximately 300 Jews from Kosice to Kamenetz-Podolsk, Ukraine, where almost all were murdered in the summer of 1941."

"This new evidence strengthens the already very strong case against Csatary and reinforces our insistence that he be held accountable for his crimes," Zuroff said in the statement. "The passage of time in no way diminishes his guilt and old age should not afford protection for Holocaust perpetrators."

Csizsik-Csatary reportedly was convicted of war crimes in absentia and sentenced to death in 1948 in the Czech Republic, Zuroff said, but the center has not obtained documentation on the case.

Story Here
 

clemenx

Banned
Yeah, while I agree that age shouldn't matter, they should concede that he won. Hiding all those years probably wasn't easy.
 
What do they do with these guys nowadays? Execute them? Prison?
Basic say they're going to do something then they die or trial and that ends for health reasons.

I posted this story earlier, not that that is important, but the picture (in the thread) of thr putz standing in his underwear like a deer caught in the headlights of a car is nice.
 

Korey

Member
Dude is 97. Not like punishing him will do much. He basically got away with it.
Whats the point when he is 97 years old?
Ugh why bother

He killed thousands of people. That's the point.

Let him live out the rest of his life in peace when he was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people? Fuck no. He doesn't deserve to leave this world on his own terms after taking that right away from all of those people.
 
Amazing that they still found another.

Nothing is as mindblowing as when Mossad tracked down, kidnapped and extradited Eichmann out of Argentina. What's even more mind blowing is that if they had done it two weeks earlier they would have gotten Mengele as well.
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
He killed thousands of people. That's the point.

Let him live out the rest of his life in peace when he was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people? Fuck no. He doesn't deserve to leave this world on his own terms after taking that right away from all of those people.

Well, if they want to devote time to this, I guess so. He will probably die before they can do anything though.


Yeah fuck all those people he killed.

Statute of limitations for mass murder should be like 10 years max.
Not what I meant, but okay.
 

Korey

Member
Well, if they want to devote time to this, I guess so. He will probably die before they can do anything though.

Not what I meant, but okay.

So? Then he'll die on the world stage where everyone can acknowledge the atrocities he committed.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Amazing that they still found another.

Nothing is as mindblowing as when Mossad tracked down, kidnapped and extradited Eichmann out of Argentina. What's even more mind blowing is that if they had done it two weeks earlier they would have gotten Mengele as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann#West_German_government_attempts_to_influence_the_trial

West German government attempts to influence the trial

Secret German documents made available in 2011 to the German periodical Der Spiegel indicate that the Adenauer government was in a panic after the arrest of Eichmann. There was fear that a trial would highlight a number of former high level government officials who had served the Nazis, particularly Hans Globke who was the Chancellery Chief of Staff and a close advisor to Chancellor Adenauer. An agent from the German Intelligence Service, Rolf Vogel, was sent to the trial in the guise of a reporter for the German newspaper, Deutsche Zeitung. Vogel worked closely with the Israeli prosecutors, making sure that there would be no implication of Globke and other former Nazis. He even arranged a meeting with David Ben-Gurion, the Israeli Prime Minister where he expressed the German concern. Vogel came away with the impression that the names of people like Globke would not be raised at the trial. At the same time, negotiations for a large arms purchase by Israel from the FRG were taking place. In the end, no mention was made during the trial nor were there any reference which were made public from the interrogations of Eichmann to former Nazi German officials. In 1962, military aid worth some 240 million DM was approved by the German government.[53]

Guess some get to get away with it when it favors arms deals.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
I mean yeah, it's good that they caught him, but basically this.

On the other hand, he'll die with everyone knowing exactly what he was.

That's the point, this is all an example, and a good one at that. Do something like this and they will find you eventually, doesn't matter how long it takes.
 
Take anything from the Sun's account with a pinch of salt. The paper has little or no journalistic integrity. Knowing them they probably knocked on the wrong door.
 

Bolshevik

Banned
His alleged personal treatment of Jews sounds despicable but the fact that he shipped thousands of Jews to Auschwitz sounds worse that what it may have been.

A study was done on the human psyc in relation to taking orders from authority figures in a controlled experiment. In the experiment they had one person shock another person in a series of volts that gradually grew stronger. The test was meant to see how far someone would shock another person if an authority figure told them to. They found that 65% of participants continued until they administered the max 450 volts, well past the 300 volts at which the person being shocked passed out. Although this doesn't justify the crimes it certainly helps explain how such widespread acceptance and participation in the Holocaust occurred in Nazi Germany. Many people really were just taking orders, too afraid to stand up to authority. This doesn't sound like this guys case since he voluntarily decided to whip the Jews and went out of his way to get some of them sent to Auschwitz. Still I found it interesting and eye opening, thought i'd share. link to the study is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
 

Cyan

Banned
Yeah, I think most of us are familiar with the Milgram experiment. If anything, Milgram just makes it more important to punish those who are "just following orders."
 

Gray Man

Banned
I think he should be sentenced to write apology letters to the families affected of known victims until he finishes or dies.

I think that would be a really big punishment.
 

Bolshevik

Banned
I disagree, the people who were just following orders should be rehabilitated and taught skills on how to resist authority when they have a moral objection. Now if the person actively participated and made no effort to get out of immoral actions then that's a different story.
 

jett

D-Member
Amazing that they still found another.

Nothing is as mindblowing as when Mossad tracked down, kidnapped and extradited Eichmann out of Argentina. What's even more mind blowing is that if they had done it two weeks earlier they would have gotten Mengele as well.

I read about this a couple of weeks ago, after watching Conspiracy. Crazy.
 

Lamel

Banned
I think he should be sentenced to write apology letters to the families affected of known victims until he finishes or dies.

I think that would be a really big punishment.

That sounds good.

I mean he will die soon anyway. You can kill him a little earlier or make him do something that will actually make him suffer (unless maybe he has had a change of heart?). I dunno it's such a bizarre story.
 

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Maybe he learned his lesson, living in fear all those years, running away from authority.
He knew he was in deep, yet I can't help but feel like punishing a man on the verge of death is an embellishment.

Somebody will probably finish him, if it isn't already taken care of by his aging.

This is straight out of catch me if you can, if catch me if you can spanned several decades.

Change of hearts can happen too, this man was in his early 20's when the third reich successfully brainwashed him and his compatriots. He was a teenager when Hitler started the propaganda.

Calling for his neck now...
 

Cyan

Banned
I disagree, the people who were just following orders should be rehabilitated and taught skills on how to resist authority when they have a moral objection. Now if the person actively participated and made no effort to get out of immoral actions then that's a different story.

If "just following orders" is a get-out-of-jail-free card, what's the motivation to resist unlawful orders?
 
I read about this a couple of weeks ago, after watching Conspiracy. Crazy.

You should read the book The House on Garibaldi Street. Written by the head of Mossad at the time and the one overseeing the mission - Isser Harel.

Spielberg should make it as a bridge movie between Schindler's List and Munich!
 
Maybe he learned his lesson, living in fear all those years, running away from authority.
He knew he was in deep, yet I can't help but feel like punishing a man on the verge of death is an embellishment.

Somebody will probably finish him, if it isn't already taken care of by his aging.

This is straight out of catch me if you can, if catch me if you can spanned several decades.

Change of hearts can happen too, this man was in his early 20's when the third reich successfully brainwashed him and his compatriots. He was a teenager when Hitler started the propaganda.

Calling for his neck now...

What the fuck am I reading? He sent thousands of jews off to their deaths but hey he was young and stupid!
 

Bolshevik

Banned
If "just following orders" is a get-out-of-jail-free card, what's the motivation to resist unlawful orders?

It's not a get-out-of jail free card, but its important to understand that there is a gradient when it comes to committing crimes. It's not just you're bad or you're good. If you're a young nazi and you see that jews, gays, and the political opposition are getting sent to death camps how willing are you to disobey orders? Some may be disgusted and refuse to help the government in anyway, but then others(the majority) may be too afraid to out right rebel and may do so in more subtle ways. This I wouldn't say applies to this man in the OP, from the allegations he sounds like he had very few qualms about what he did since he made no effort to apologize or admit to his crimes.
 

Cyan

Banned
It's not a get-out-of jail free card, but its important to understand that there is a gradient when it comes to committing crimes. It's not just you're bad or you're good.
Obviously not. That's exactly what I'm getting at. When you say, oh they're just following orders, they aren't actually bad, you appear to be asserting that they are good, and therefore undeserving of punishment.

I'm saying this good/bad stuff is irrelevant. Punishment should be about results, not the moral character of the accused.

If punishing those who just follow orders will result in fewer people in the future just following orders, then that is what ought to be done. If not, then not. But the latter doesn't appear to be what you're saying.

I'm very much aware of just how difficult it is to be a human being, stuck inside a mind designed for a very specific evolutionary context, that does all kinds of things we'd rather it didn't do. I can both understand why someone would just follow orders and still think such things should be punished.
 

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
What the fuck am I reading? He sent thousands of jews off to their deaths but hey he was young and stupid!

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.
 
it's not just about punishing. there's no punishment for this anyway for a 97 years old man. it's about confronting him with his crimes, letting him know that there are consequences and ad least having him think about his actions until end of his life.

also, not all people were just brainwashed. read his biography.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
You learn something new on GAF every day, apparently it's no big deal to have played a role in genocide if you manage to escape justice until you're really old...
 

Steelrain

Member
Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.
Hoooooly shit.
 

Carbonox

Member
Isn't being stuck in Hungary punishment enough?

What's wrong with Hungary? :(

*British-Hungarian here*

Then again I wouldn't live there but I do love going to see family and do other things. A nice change from being in England all the time and Hungary's a beautiful country.

Glad they found this bastard though.
 
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