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[Rapstah]

Has his life been completely ruined by expecting the Mossad around every corner or did he get to start again when they lost him?

 

[noah111]

97 year old dude would probably die before they even got a chance to do a trial.

 

[Hindle]

Let Mossad have thier way with him.

 

[Gustav]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

Fuck this. Seriously. FUCK.

 

[ThisWreckage]

He essentially got away with it. He's 97 and he'll likely be dead soon anyway. Putting the guy on trial or killing him won't change the fact that he played a part in genocide and essentially got away with it.

 

[Gustav]

He essentially got away with it. He's 97 and he'll likely be dead soon anyway. Putting the guy on trial or killing him won't change the fact that he played a part in genocide and essentially got away with it.

Because trials and executions are all about travelling through time and stop the crime before it happened.

 

[goomba]

He still deserves a trial .

 

[corporate cheerleader]

Snip

You're fucking miserable.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

Godmann you went there.

Anyway, he's lanky ass in his knickers.

 

[Numpt3]

I guess it isn't that surprising that along with all the defence forces gaf has we also have a genocide defence force. :/

 

[zon]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

So you assume that you know exactly how this man feels and thinks. It seems like you've erred as well.

Just to show how ridiculous your assumptions are, here's another Nazi fugitive named Alois Brunner:

Alois Brunner (born 8 April 1912) was an Austrian Nazi war criminal. Brunner was Adolf Eichmann's assistant, and Eichmann referred to Brunner as his "best man." As commander of the Drancy internment camp outside Paris from June 1943 to August 1944, Brunner is held responsible for sending some 140,000 European Jews to the gas chambers. Nearly 24,000 of them were deported from the Drancy camp. He was condemned to death in absentia in France in 1954 for crimes against humanity. In 1961 and in 1980, Brunner lost an eye and the fingers of his left hand, respectively, as a result of letter bombs sent to him by Mossad.
In 2003, The Guardian described him as "the world's highest-ranking Nazi fugitive believed still alive." Brunner was last reported to be living in Syria, whose government rebuffed international efforts to locate or apprehend him.

...

In his 1980s interview by the German magazine Bunte, Brunner declared that his sole regret was not having murdered more Jews. In a 1987 telephone interview to the Chicago Sun Times, he stated: "The Jews deserved to die. They were garbage, I have no regrets. If I had the chance I would do it again..."

 

[Sibylus]

Amid all your pleas for empathy and appeals to peer pressure, SMT, you've somehow managed to sideline the thousands of human beings this man knowingly and willingly sent off to the slaughterhouse. There is no excuse for debauched acts committed against one's fellow man, regardless if they're the fruit of one's own horrific initiative or the depraved commands of a superior.

Get up and get out if all you have to contribute here is relativistic contrarian gutter whinging, I have nothing but contempt for one such as you who leaps to the defense of mass murderers and their complicits before that of the ones butchered at their hands. Get up and get out.

 

[Instigator]

What's wrong with Hungary?

Many things:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1153487--refugee-claims-from-hungary-soar-un-reports

http://www.economist.com/node/21556619

Hungary is a dump.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Yeah, I think most of us are familiar with the Milgram experiment. If anything, Milgram just makes it more important to punish those who are "just following orders."

Interesting

 

[SniperHunter]

Amazing that they still found another.

Nothing is as mindblowing as when Mossad tracked down, kidnapped and extradited Eichmann out of Argentina. What's even more mind blowing is that if they had done it two weeks earlier they would have gotten Mengele as well.

yea I saw a "Nazi Hunter" episode on that, that Mossad spy had a lot of balls.

But killing 15,000 people...how did he live with himself all these years? Man these Nazis were comple sadists.

 

[yeoz]

Punishment is entirely justified from my point of view, even just as pure symbolism as a show of force that no one can or should ever get away with crimes of this kind. That is just the way it is, and perhaps as it should be.

לא נשכח ולא נסלח

 

[Kentpaul]

Waste of tax payers cash putting this guy through the courts, just protest outside his house 24/7 making his life a living hell.

 

[Raiden]

Well, if they want to devote time to this, I guess so. He will probably die before they can do anything though.



Not what I meant, but okay.

Devote time? Yes they should devote time for this. Its their job. If they can devote time to prosecute some minor drugdealers. Then a Nazi chief that is responsible for the death of thousands should be a no brainer.

And yeah he will probally die soon anyway, but its just a matter of showing respect for his victims.


Old age brings a weird form of forgiveness and charisma to it. But fuck that.

 

[Monocle]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

Your heartfelt words have moved me, but I'm not the one who needs to hear them. Please make haste to share your eloquent insight with the surviving relatives of Herr Csizsik-Csatary's youthful indiscretions. I believe that you alone can give them closure.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Well, it's better than John Demjanjuk, what a shitshow that turned out to be.

 

[Pezking]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed.

That point could be made about a young man who only experienced a nazi controlled school system, was a member of the Hitler youth and was drafted into the war at a very young age.

Like the protagonists in "The Bridge": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052654/

But that fucker here was born in Hungary and already 29 years old in 1944. And don't tell me someone ordered him to wear a whip on his belt to beat the shit out of jewish prisoners!

That being said, I don't like the thought of sending a 97 year old man whose crimes date back almost 70 years to jail. But I'm somewhat pleased that this asshole now knows what kind of legacy he will leave behind. Put him on trial and let the world know what a monster he was. Even if he'll never serve prison time due to his age and health, it's better than nothing.

 

[TheMan]

theoretically, i agree that time doesn't lessen the impact of his crimes and that he will always be responsible for what the did.

realistically, it's too late. he's 97 and could very possibly die before a trial could be completed. whoever spent all that time and money looking for him will have to be content with exposing him and his crimes, but they will not have conventional justice.

 

[Monocle]

That point could be made about a young man who only experienced a nazi controlled school system, was a member of the Hitler youth and was drafted into the war at a very young age.

Like the protagonists in "The Bridge": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052654/

But that fucker here was born in Hungary and already 29 years old in 1944. And don't tell me someone ordered him to wear a whip on his belt to beat the shit out of jewish prisoners!

That being said, I don't like the thought of sending a 97 year old man whose crimes date back almost 70 years to jail. But I'm somewhat pleased that this asshole now knows what kind of legacy he will leave behind. Put him on trial and let the world know what a monster he was. Even if he'll never serve prison time due to his age and health, it's better than nothing.

What sickening intolerance. Only an unfeeling brute would refuse to accept that humans are diverse, and for some humans the highest expression of their humanity is whipping and condemning to death other humans that are Jewish.

 

[HarryHengst]

I guess it isn't that surprising that along with all the defence forces gaf has we also have a genocide defence force. :/

If only we had a defence force for people who cant read topics.

Nobody is defending genocide here, some are questioning if its worth it to imprison a 97 year old man who probably wont even survive a trial.

 

[IISANDERII]

Being responsible for the deaths of innocent people is something that doesn't go away with time.

Rest assured: it does. He's at the end of life, they're not going to lock away his corpse. Even if they do, that indignity would be met with indifference.

 

[Kinyou]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

So how many therapy sessions did you have with him so far? I mean, you pretty much know what's going on in that guys brain.

You can't apply this stuff to everyone, it might be true for some individuals, but hardly for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Why is it that in every single GAF thread I've ever read that involves discussion of the Holocaust, Hitler, WWII, etc, there are people who feel the need to defend the Nazis?

There's a difference between understanding evil and sympathizing with/justifying it. I see the latter far too often in threads like these, but thankfully, just from a vocal minority.

 

[Valnen]

Rest assured: it does. He's at the end of life, they're not going to lock away his corpse. Even if they do, that indignity would be met with indifference.

Nope. Murdering thousands of people is something that can NEVER be forgiven as long as he lives.

 

[The Elite]

He killed thousands of people. That's the point.

Let him live out the rest of his life in peace when he was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people? Fuck no. He doesn't deserve to leave this world on his own terms after taking that right away from all of those people.

I have to agree. Let him die knowing he didn't get away with it.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I have to agree. Let him die knowing he didn't get away with it.

Is it wrong that I think of the end of The Departed?

 

[Rehynn]

Oh yay, we're in the news again.

 

[Kiraly]

Oh yay, we're in the news again.

Jobbik will turn the country to a true shit show

 

[SillyEskimo]

Guilty until proven innocent GAF is out in full force today. Trial by media wins again.

 

[Spiffy_1st]

Why is it that in every single GAF thread I've ever read that involves discussion of the Holocaust, Hitler, WWII, etc, there are people who feel the need to defend the Nazis?

There's a difference between understanding evil and sympathizing with/justifying it. I see the latter far too often in threads like these, but thankfully, just from a vocal minority.

No one is defending Nazis, the argument here is if we should punish a 97 year old man.

I don't care what happens, the only point there would be to punish him is out of principle, it's not like it would do anything.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Let him die in jail.

 

[Thagomizer]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

What the fuck.

 

[Jarmel]

He'll probably die before he's convicted anyway. He got away with it.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

When it comes to how to treat criminals, there are basically four ways to go:

You either deter to ensure that others won't repeat the crime, imprison and detain to ensure that the criminal won't repeat that or any other crime, punish with imprisonment and/or rehabilitate to ensure that the criminal won't repeat that or any other crimes, or punish to increase the well-being of people with a vested interested in seeing the criminal punished.

Of the above, the only reason to punish him with prison is to deter others (showing them that you can't get away with this sort of crime no matter how old you are) and to some degree increase the well-being of people who were directly or indirectly affected by his actions.

The last reason is purely vengeance based, so on its own I don't think it would be enough for imprisonment, but the deterrence reason is good enough on its imho.

 

[IISANDERII]

Nope. Murdering thousands of people is something that can NEVER be forgiven as long as he lives.

So it'll be forgiven in a couple months. How comforting.

 

[Hindle]

Take him to Israel, and let him see how much he failed. I doubt he could cope with that.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I really like all the 'throw him in prison' comments.

Innocent until proven guilty???

Oh that old fashioned thing

 

[John Dunbar]

Take him to Israel, and let him see how much he failed. I doubt he could cope with that.

i know he's old, but i'm pretty sure he is aware that israel exists.

 

[MooseKnuckles]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

He was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people. On the 'relativity' scale, that makes him pretty fucking evil.

I genuinely thought this might be one of the few topics where contrarian bullshit would be avoided. Oh well.

 

[Az]

Put him on trial. Then we'll go from there...

 

[Lagspike_exe]

He must be procesucted, no questions about that. His age doesn't negate his actions in his youth, especially the mass killing and genocide he was a part of.

 

[volturnus]

"In his statement of defense, Csizsik-Csatary admitted to some involvement in the ghettoization of Jews, to handing over at least two Jews to the Germans and to attending the last mass deportation of Jews out of Kassa (Hungary),"

Handing them over to superiors, i.e., following orders is a war crime? Seriously, not every Nazi is a war criminal, and there's absolutely no point in sending a 97-year old man to jail.

 

[Omegasquash]

Put him on trial. Investigating a Nazi war criminal is worth it.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Handing them over to superiors, i.e., following orders is a war crime? Seriously, not every Nazi is a war criminal,

Umm I'm pretty sure that defense has never worked. It kind of got tried in this Germany city once and it didn't work out well.

there's absolutely no point in sending a 97-year old man to jail.

Making him dig a hole in the ground and shooting it is fine with me.

 

[andycapps]

Maybe send these guys and let them do their thing, and he can live out his days that way. With everyone knowing who he was. Fuck that, let them do their thing, and then put him through a trial and sentencing.

 

[volturnus]

Umm I'm pretty sure that defense has never worked. It kind of got tried in this Germany city once and it didn't work out well.


Making him dig a hole in the ground and shooting it is fine with me.

Well, the Nuremberg Trials were a judicial abomination, there isn't much credibility to it.
The guy surely isn't a war criminal, but being a Nazi officer seems to eliminate any chance of defending himself.
I can explain why I mean he was no criminal. First, young hungarian men, much like latvians, had two options: enlist in the SS or be captured/killed by either nazis or communists. He, like everyone in the Latvian Legion, obviously didn't want to get killed, and also didn't want the Red Army to take Hungary.
Second, being in charge of a ghetto doesn't mean he killed prisoners, or, as a matter of fact, that he even knew about such things happening. The only source of him being a mass murderer is the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which as biased as one can be.