PHOENIXZERO
Member
It wasn't everyone but Emma and Henry at mid-season last year with new memories in their place.
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Once Upon A Time S5 |OT| The Brave and the Gold
- Thread starter zeemumu
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It wasn't everyone but Emma and Henry at mid-season last year with new memories in their place.
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm pretty sure everyone lost their memories, because they didn't remember Zelena at first. Emma and Henry had to have them jogged, but Henry's didn't happen until after everyone else.
Hook (and later revealed, Ingrid) escaped the Curse and kept their memories.
BKatastrophe
Member
Despite that, I still respect the show for going all in. Even if the green screen and CG look terrible sometimes.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
This is now the 4th time out of 5 seasons that the main cast have had their memories taken, time skipped, and must now flash back the entire season.
S1: Original Curse. Nobody remembers who they are.
S3: 2nd Dark Curse. Emma and Henry also have their memories taken.
S4: Emma and Elsa don't remember the Snow Queen because of Memory spells. The entire kingdom doesn't remember The Snow Queen because of the trolls.
S5: They've now all lost 6 weeks because of Emma.
Moreover, memory potions quite often reset the plot to the status quo as well:
Why doesn't Rumple remember time traveling Emma and Hook? Memory potion.
Why doesn't Regina remember that Henry is Emma's son after adopting him? Memory Potion.
Or to give other characters an excuse to drive the plot
Why does Snow White go off the deep end and try to kill Regina again? Memory potion.
It's even used as an excuse in Season 2 as to why nobody can leave (both Belle and Sneezy lose their memories). Even the end of Season 4 pulled the whole "NOBODY REMEMBERS WHO THEY REALLY ARE!!!!" (though Goodwin legit rocked that mowhawk). It's basically a running gag at this point which they even poke fun at ("We've lost our memories... again"), but it already got old a season ago.
This episode shouldn't have been called "Dark Swan", it should have been called "Once Upon a Time: We Forgot the Name of this Episode". Don't get me wrong, I still like the performances, the reveal that The Dagger is the tip of Excalibur was awesome, and the concept of an Evil Savior holds a lot of potential. I just wish they'd come up with something other than "Hey, we all lost our memories again".
S1: Original Curse. Nobody remembers who they are.
S3: 2nd Dark Curse. Emma and Henry also have their memories taken.
S4: Emma and Elsa don't remember the Snow Queen because of Memory spells. The entire kingdom doesn't remember The Snow Queen because of the trolls.
S5: They've now all lost 6 weeks because of Emma.
Moreover, memory potions quite often reset the plot to the status quo as well:
Why doesn't Rumple remember time traveling Emma and Hook? Memory potion.
Why doesn't Regina remember that Henry is Emma's son after adopting him? Memory Potion.
Or to give other characters an excuse to drive the plot
Why does Snow White go off the deep end and try to kill Regina again? Memory potion.
It's even used as an excuse in Season 2 as to why nobody can leave (both Belle and Sneezy lose their memories). Even the end of Season 4 pulled the whole "NOBODY REMEMBERS WHO THEY REALLY ARE!!!!" (though Goodwin legit rocked that mowhawk). It's basically a running gag at this point which they even poke fun at ("We've lost our memories... again"), but it already got old a season ago.
This episode shouldn't have been called "Dark Swan", it should have been called "Once Upon a Time: We Forgot the Name of this Episode". Don't get me wrong, I still like the performances, the reveal that The Dagger is the tip of Excalibur was awesome, and the concept of an Evil Savior holds a lot of potential. I just wish they'd come up with something other than "Hey, we all lost our memories again".
BKatastrophe
Member
Why are you spoilering things in a thread where everyone already knows what happens?
Because everyone lost their memories during the transition to this thread.
I only ask that you spoiler tag plot points for the most recent episode until it's had a chance to air for everyone. If you wait about a day to be safe you'll be fine.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Didn't know if it was against the rules or not, lol.
Once Upon A Time S5 |OT| Wait, We're On Season 5?
Thanks for the heads up.
show me your skeleton
Member
oh man, merida is a delight.
Man the Henry scenes tonight were especially cringeworthy. Also, am I the only one that can't stand that they call Snow White, "Mary Margaret" all the time? Even in the enchanted forest now
Also, the whole Regina pretending to be the savior thing. First of all, she was the savior of Selena's curse. Second, are we supposed to have forgotten that Emma herself has only been to one ball in her life? Finally, I really hate how weak they've made Regina. How was anyone ever scared of her
At least they moved the whole rebuilding Excalibur story ahead
Nitpicking aside I thought it was a pretty solid episode
Also, the whole Regina pretending to be the savior thing. First of all, she was the savior of Selena's curse. Second, are we supposed to have forgotten that Emma herself has only been to one ball in her life? Finally, I really hate how weak they've made Regina. How was anyone ever scared of her
At least they moved the whole rebuilding Excalibur story ahead
Nitpicking aside I thought it was a pretty solid episode
Lee Chaolan
Member
I actually like Dark One Emma, love the dark side in her.
RPGCrazied
Member
Yeah, I hope to god this isn't going to last all season long. The story around Excalibur though is cool.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I swear to god, Rumple better not wake up with amnesia.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I figured last year that he'd get a girlfriend this season but good god Henry's taste in music... What a coincidence that the jukebox had the same song.
BKatastrophe
Member
It was an alright episode. Bit of a weak follow-up to the premiere. I like Dark Emma. Honestly, I like how the whole "Heroes and Villains" bit actually mattered, because now Emma is the villain responsible for everything whilst Regina is the hero that is supposed to stop her. Regina is getting her happy ending at the cost of Emma, whose ultimate goal is to ensure that everyone gets their happy ending. Therefore her happy ending is that everyone's happy ending comes to fruition. Very interesting place to take their storylines. Explains why Regina is weak, though. Magical power stems primarily from emotions, particularly the "pure and resolute" kind. This has been a basic rule since the beginning. Regina is severely conflicted right now, and therefore is not nearly as powerful.
I'm still intrigued by what this "greater threat" is. And I'm also intrigued by the newfound lore on Excalibur. It appears that the sword is an ultimately neutral vessel, that can destroy either light or dark. A very pure, ultimately neutral vessel. Very intrigued by that.
Beyond that, the resolution was beyond stupid, not because of the "friendship wins" thing, but because it didn't actually make sense within the given scenario. The fury came to collect its price, which was one life: so it gets banished due to its inability to process data? I'll bite, though I don't like it.
Kinda felt like this episode was dealing with too many character arcs at once. "Hook's trying to break Emma's curse! Regina's trying to be the Savior! Mary Margaret and David help Henry to get the girl! Mary Margaret and David help Regina do things! Leroy's hitting on Belle!" Like, back off a little, yeah?
Also upset at the lack of Will Scarlet. I'd very much approve of any shenanigans that he would pull.
Frreal what the hell was that nonsense.
I'm still intrigued by what this "greater threat" is. And I'm also intrigued by the newfound lore on Excalibur. It appears that the sword is an ultimately neutral vessel, that can destroy either light or dark. A very pure, ultimately neutral vessel. Very intrigued by that.
Beyond that, the resolution was beyond stupid, not because of the "friendship wins" thing, but because it didn't actually make sense within the given scenario. The fury came to collect its price, which was one life: so it gets banished due to its inability to process data? I'll bite, though I don't like it.
Kinda felt like this episode was dealing with too many character arcs at once. "Hook's trying to break Emma's curse! Regina's trying to be the Savior! Mary Margaret and David help Henry to get the girl! Mary Margaret and David help Regina do things! Leroy's hitting on Belle!" Like, back off a little, yeah?
Also upset at the lack of Will Scarlet. I'd very much approve of any shenanigans that he would pull.
Frreal what the hell was that nonsense.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I agree with the sentiment about liking Dark Emma. It's a breathe of fresh air to see her act confident for once (whether or not it's true confidence or not). Emma has never really been a character that has been sure of herself since every time it seems she's come to terms with who she is, the writers contrive yet another reason that she isn't (I still haven't gotten over the "HER FAMILY DOESN'T TRUST HER NOW... because of magic they've known about for years and have seen her use on a semi-regular basis for at least the past year and a half..." that seemingly popped out of nowhere with no foreshadowing or build up last season).
That's been a problem since Season 2, though. At any given time they are juggling 10 to 15 characters (Emma, Mary Margret, Regina, Charming, Henry, Hook, Belle, Gold, Robin, Zelena and any other main villains at the time) and dropping other characters left and right (Ruby, Mulan, Victor, August, Archie, Will, and it's looking like both Maleficent and Lily are getting the shaft) with tons of others getting next to no screen time anymore (all of the Dwarves not named Leroy). None of these characters seem to have any time to breathe.
That's been a problem since Season 2, though. At any given time they are juggling 10 to 15 characters (Emma, Mary Margret, Regina, Charming, Henry, Hook, Belle, Gold, Robin, Zelena and any other main villains at the time) and dropping other characters left and right (Ruby, Mulan, Victor, August, Archie, Will, and it's looking like both Maleficent and Lily are getting the shaft) with tons of others getting next to no screen time anymore (all of the Dwarves not named Leroy). None of these characters seem to have any time to breathe.
BKatastrophe
Member
You aren't wrong, but I'm not talking specifically about the characters, just the storylines in the episode. Most of the time there's a couple storylines running in an episode, and all the major characters are involved in one of those two or three. This time there was like 5 or 6 and it's kind of ridiculous at that point. Also, let's be fair, the other dwarves never got development anyways.
Also the whole "family not trusting her"... I actually dug that arc, but then again I've never really liked Emma as a character. Always seemed like just a plot device, and that was the first time I actually liked her. I'd compare her to Ichigo from Bleach, for anyone who reads/watched Bleach.
How long has Carlton been hosting America's funniest Home Videos?
Damn it Arthur I thought you were cool. This episode felt like it was lacking in progress. The entire point seemed to be to prove that
Setting up the pieces for the major play, hopefully.
Damn it Arthur I thought you were cool. This episode felt like it was lacking in progress. The entire point seemed to be to prove that
Arthur turned heel. I'm glad that Rumple's back in the game now.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I just realized Henry wasn't in the last episode.
And of course Arthur would have an ulterior motive.
And of course Arthur would have an ulterior motive.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of her yet.
I think this is his first year. He's also on Food Network now hosting some how it's made program for snacks.
They really need to kill off some characters, but I guess that would be at odds with the whole "happy ending" theme of the show.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
they dont even need to kill them off, just stop including them in the story
why are the dwarves still getting screen time, does anyone actually like them? Have they ever even been integral to a plot line?
why are the dwarves still getting screen time, does anyone actually like them? Have they ever even been integral to a plot line?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
You're forgetting the greatest dwarf, Stealthy.
I do love Amy Acker.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Pretty far into season 1. The show is okay....until Carlyle gets on the screen. Rumpelstiltskin absolutely makes this show. So damn good, and his character is rich and dynamic. Love him.
David you dumb motherfucker.
The Dark One in Camelot's time should still be Rumple, shouldn't it? He was at his plan for hundreds of years, so he should be the oldest of them.
...*half an hour later*
David you smart motherfucker.
Why does Arthur want to kill Merlin again? I think I missed that part.
I'm glad that Merida is playing a major part in the story again. I'll wait for Mulan to come back into the story so she and Merida can do an I'll Make A Man Out of You training montage.
The Dark One in Camelot's time should still be Rumple, shouldn't it? He was at his plan for hundreds of years, so he should be the oldest of them.
...*half an hour later*
David you smart motherfucker.
Why does Arthur want to kill Merlin again? I think I missed that part.
I'm glad that Merida is playing a major part in the story again. I'll wait for Mulan to come back into the story so she and Merida can do an I'll Make A Man Out of You training montage.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
LOL at the Brave name drop at the end.
And yeah, the timeline is getting confusing... Like, okay time moving "faster" in the real world or slower or whatever it's doing sure but it doesn't feel like there's any consistency at all. How much time in passing in fantasy land in the "six weeks" flashbacks? Also don't know how I feel about the direction they've taken with Arthur/Camelot and I always preferred Excalibur and the Sword In the Stone being two different things.
And yeah, the timeline is getting confusing... Like, okay time moving "faster" in the real world or slower or whatever it's doing sure but it doesn't feel like there's any consistency at all. How much time in passing in fantasy land in the "six weeks" flashbacks? Also don't know how I feel about the direction they've taken with Arthur/Camelot and I always preferred Excalibur and the Sword In the Stone being two different things.
Sooo with the time line thingy: I think they meant 5 years before the curse, right? Otherwise Rumple could not be in the dark one vault and at the same time Mr. Gold in Storybrooke.
Or was this the manifestation of the dark ones power? Like the voice in Emmas head? I mean the "darkness" attacked Lancelot and Guin and disappeared before they entered this small former Neverland set.
And what about the rules of the Avalon sand? I can make broken things appear complete. It makes sense with the broken marriage of Arthur and Guin, and maybe the broken kingdom of Camelot. But why can they controll Snow and Charmign now?
Or was this the manifestation of the dark ones power? Like the voice in Emmas head? I mean the "darkness" attacked Lancelot and Guin and disappeared before they entered this small former Neverland set.
And what about the rules of the Avalon sand? I can make broken things appear complete. It makes sense with the broken marriage of Arthur and Guin, and maybe the broken kingdom of Camelot. But why can they controll Snow and Charmign now?
Broken trust, I assume.
In the end it's just brainwash powder.
The authors tried their best to explain the weird timeline on twitter:
@AdamHorowitzLA
Hey #Oncers -- here's writer @AndrewChambliss clarifying last night's #OnceUponATime timeline. Hope this helps!
Hard to believe it's only been 2 years in the show since the curse was broken. They need more time jumps to explain Henrys age.
RPGCrazied
Member
Ugh, enough with the Henry love stuff.
Did someone forget to read the show's style guide or something?
I'm talking about how there's that slowly crescendoing sound in the background that signals transitions between present day and past events.
Cause the transitions were really Lost as hell this episode (because the show's creators and former Lost writers wrote this) but at least for the past season they didn't do that or just put up chyrons for time. That seemed really odd to me.
I'm talking about how there's that slowly crescendoing sound in the background that signals transitions between present day and past events.
Cause the transitions were really Lost as hell this episode (because the show's creators and former Lost writers wrote this) but at least for the past season they didn't do that or just put up chyrons for time. That seemed really odd to me.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Henry gets friendzoned by a girl he's known weeks and that "love lost" is worse than Regina's guy being killed in front of her. Ok then.
I know they explained it but its stupid as fuck.
Other than that I really liked the episode. In fact I've been really enjoying this season
Hope they go into more of a backstory for the hate that Arthur has for Merlin in addition to "you gave me a shitty prophecy", because really thats pretty weak.
Unsure of what is happening with gould and Merida but I really like her character/actress so I hope she's not written out too soon
I know they explained it but its stupid as fuck.
Other than that I really liked the episode. In fact I've been really enjoying this season
Hope they go into more of a backstory for the hate that Arthur has for Merlin in addition to "you gave me a shitty prophecy", because really thats pretty weak.
Unsure of what is happening with gould and Merida but I really like her character/actress so I hope she's not written out too soon
Eh, for Regina it'd be like watching your first ex get murdered by this point, like if Emma watched the Huntsman get murdered, and Henry is an overemotional teenager, and teenage emotions rival any adult's in intensity with less of a cause.
As for Merida, she's training Gold to be worthy of pulling the sword from the stone because Emma wants him too, but she has the ulterior motive of also training him to do it to use the sword to stop Emma.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
She should've told Henry that she couldn't love someone who has such a lame taste in music and I don't care about the lame ass sentimentality of it and I say that as someone who does like some Synthpop. But now we get lame Henry/Emma drama.
But I want the lame Henry/Emma drama. Henry's the only thing left for her and I want to see what happens when she loses it in comparison to Gold and Regina.
Spiritreaver
Member
Agreed. Henry is an awful character, but he's the only thing in the show that makes Emma's character important. I was cringing the entire way through this episode, but watching Emma break her own son's heart was worth it.
Up until now I really hated the Emma is the Dark One premise. It was going no where, lol.
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