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OnLive Launching June 17, $14.95 Per Month

Future

Member
Price is fine. It is in tune with NetFlix, WOW and similar subscriptions. Games may cost extra, similar to how you rent your cable box and still pay for specific channels.

I just wonder about performance. Word 2010 in the cloud seems doable. Street Fighter 4 which requires precision timing? No thanks. That said, there may be a class of games that can handle the lag without getting too annoying (rpgs).
 
I thought of some questions that we have yet to see answers for...

1. I know there was a closed beta, but what happened to the open beta? Did that ever take place?

2. How many concurrent users can one of their datacenters support? Likewise, what happens when 1,000 people connected to the same datacenter want to play a very high-end game (like Crysis) where computing resources can't be shared to the degree they can with a low-end game? Is there a maximum number of people allowed to connect before you get a "sorry, try again later" message? Or will the system throttle back the graphics quality for everyone to handle the demand?

3. How is the lag cross-datacenter for multiplayer games? Example: I want to play a friend in California and I'm in Florida. We're both connected to our "100 mile or less" datacenter. Obviously there will be a decent link between the two DCs, but how is the overall performance? I've only read reports of single player experiences.

4. What happened to the MicroConsole? Is it to be rented or bought? How much? When?
 

Slavik81

Member
brain_stew said:
Well since this service requires perfect decoding of a (likely h.264) HD video stream at better than real time speed, then your Netbook probably isn't going to be any use for Onlive either. Unless you plan to play Crysis at 640x480 :lol
Given that your netbook probably has a <10" screen, that's not so bad...
Besides, within a few years netbooks will be able to do that just fine.

K.Jack said:
So for how many concurrent instances will they need to be prepped?
No idea. If I had to guess, I'd say half. But you'd need some real world data and do statistical analysis or simulations.

Shambles said:
So if you have a gaming desktop and a netbook but you want to use onlive for when you have the netbook on the road you still have to pay them 15$/month plus pay twice for the game that you already own and have installed on your desktop. I believe most people were thinking the service would cost something like 15/month including the games, which would have been ok.
If so, then most people were crazy. That was never realistic.
 

NewFresh

Member
I am pretty disappointed. I was expecting them to have the service for free, on computers and pay for the TV box, and then they would take a percentage from the overall cost of the game since they would be distributing it.

Paying $15 dollars a month to access my games seems unrealistic unless they are going to lower the price of games SIGNIFICANTLY.
 
Future said:
Price is fine. It is in tune with NetFlix, WOW and similar subscriptions. Games may cost extra, similar to how you rent your cable box and still pay for specific channels.


Except with NetFlix you get the movies free.
With Cable you get most of your tv channels free.
With WoW you get to ...play the game.

With OnLive, your $15 lets you play demos and watch other people play games.
 

Agent X

Member
I was actually looking forward to the arrival of OnLive, but after hearing this news my enthusiasm has faded greatly. $15 plus having to "purchase" games (or as others have put it, more like an extended rental than an actual purchase)?

I expected there would be a subscription fee, and also expected that users would have to pay for individual games. That didn't bother me. I was just hoping the prices would be a lot more reasonable. If the fee is $15 a month for the service, then I would hope for something like...oh, $5 to "purchase" a game, maybe $10 at the most. Yes, that's a lot lower than retail pricing, but since piracy and resale of used games would be eliminated with OnLive's model, publishers should be able to compensate.

I'm not going to discuss the pros and cons of the service, they've already been discussed at great length in this and other threads here. I could cope with the service's flaws if the costs to the consumer were significantly lower than purchasing the games through retail (either traditional or downloadable game stores). If they cannot offer a greater value proposition, then there really isn't any reason for the consumer to want to get on board with something like OnLive.
 

coopolon

Member
Slavik81 said:
So you can play Crysis on your netbook.
If you already own a gaming PC, this service is not for you.

But the reason Crysis is so popular is because it is graphically stunning. (Not to incur the wrath of the NeoGaf Crysis apologists, of which there are many, the game would be a vastly inferior experience without high resolution and high image quality.)

I get the impression this cannot be done using this system. 720p isn't that bad of a resolution (it's equal to consoles which clearly the majority of console owners are okay with), but super compressed, low settings, etc.? Why bother?

This service pretty much takes out all the advantages of PC games. Superior resolution/image quality? No longer the case. Extremely customizable games? No longer the case, good luck modding Oblivion with this beast. Ability to play all your old games on whatever future PCs you own? No longer the case.

I guess you still get the superior input method, KB/M.

To be honest, I had hoped with this service I'd be able to rent games like COD4 or Wolfenstein (I know Activision is not a partner) and get console level resolution/IQ but be able to use kb/m for ~$12 per game. For that I would have signed up, I refuse to pay more then $20 to buy games I'll only ever play through once and only last 6 hours, so I end up renting them on the consoles, but there I have to put with crappy controllers.

Clearly, OnLive in its current state and pricing model will not meet my needs.
 
coopolon said:
But the reason Crysis is so popular is because it is graphically stunning. (Not to incur the wrath of the NeoGaf Crysis apologists, of which there are many, the game would be a vastly inferior experience without high resolution and high image quality.)

I get the impression this cannot be done using this system. 720p isn't that bad of a resolution (it's equal to consoles which clearly the majority of console owners are okay with), but super compressed, low settings, etc.? Why bother?

This service pretty much takes out all the advantages of PC games. Superior resolution/image quality? No longer the case. Extremely customizable games? No longer the case, good luck modding Oblivion with this beast. Ability to play all your old games on whatever future PCs you own? No longer the case.

I guess you still get the superior input method, KB/M.

To be honest, I had hoped with this service I'd be able to rent games like COD4 or Wolfenstein (I know Activision is not a partner) and get console level resolution/IQ but be able to use kb/m for ~$12 per game. For that I would have signed up, I refuse to pay more then $20 to buy games I'll only ever play through once and only last 6 hours, so I end up renting them on the consoles, but there I have to put with crappy controllers.

Clearly, OnLive in its current state and pricing model will not meet my needs.

Well, even though the system does support a kb&m I doubt you'd want to use it for many games. The imprecision inherent in most console games (particularly shooters) can go a long way to masking input lag.
 

coopolon

Member
brain_stew said:
Well, even though the system does support a kb&m I doubt you'd want to use it for many games. The imprecision inherent in most console games (particularly shooters) can go a long way to masking input lag.

Shit, I completely forget its primary input was that controller they made for it. Once I read it was all PC games, I was just assuming it was KB/M, but that's not the case, it's going to be their own controller.

Well, now I really don't understand why people would use this. I don't believe there are a significant portion of people out there who are hardcore enough to want to play Crysis and Metro 2033, but are naive (casual, whatever) to the point where they don't know what they're giving up when using this system.
 

Frostburn

Member
The talk from people that played it at various press events is that lag was still an issue recently with this system. The input control lag will make or break subscriptions for everyone but the most casual users so it will be interesting to see how it performs when it goes live. I'd love to try this system out even though I have no real need for it with my current hardware.
 
Hmm... I'm throwing my two cents in late in the game, but my take is that this thing misses the point. I mean, if you don't have a gaming PC, I could see your curiosity being piqued by a title or two. However, when I think about it more, if you really cared enough to subscribe to online and pay fees to buy/rent titles, I'd think you'd be interested enough to invest in a machine to play those titles free from the cloud. My reasoning is simply that I don't understand the need for the cloud.

Different people have different circumstances, but in my personal circumstance, I can't think of anywhere that I'd be computing that has a consistent enough bandwidth to make use of this service other than my home network where I already have a gaming desktop. For the people who actually care about this service and don't have the requisite hardware to play these games without the cloud, I have serious concerns that the performance of this service will not be an adequate substitute for having a gaming-worthy rig.
 
All you can eat subscription model OR limited duration pay-to-play rentals.

You can't get away with both charges simultaneously.

I like the concept of OnLive quite a bit, as it has the potential to remove the hardware vendor lock-in barriers from gaming, so that avid gamers (and casuals) won't feel compelled to purchase multiple consoles.

But in the current world we live in, gamers have plenty of choices, with much better ownership, gameplay experience and value attached.

No deal.
 

Aaron

Member
Slavik81 said:
If so, then most people were crazy. That was never realistic.
$15 a month + cost of games isn't realistic because very few people will go in for it. This is a service for people who don't want to pony up the money to upgrade their computer every four years. That's $720 for the basic service, not counting the games. It means essentially no savings at all, and a lesser experience to boot.
 

SILVO

Banned
Agent X said:
I was actually looking forward to the arrival of OnLive, but after hearing this news my enthusiasm has faded greatly. $15 plus having to "purchase" games (or as others have put it, more like an extended rental than an actual purchase)?

I expected there would be a subscription fee, and also expected that users would have to pay for individual games. That didn't bother me. I was just hoping the prices would be a lot more reasonable. If the fee is $15 a month for the service, then I would hope for something like...oh, $5 to "purchase" a game, maybe $10 at the most. Yes, that's a lot lower than retail pricing, but since piracy and resale of used games would be eliminated with OnLive's model, publishers should be able to compensate.

Wait... you actually thought that they would let you buy the full version of a game for $10 or less? You think that piracy/resale and brick-and-mortar retailers account for $40 of every game sold? /facepalm...

Look, most of the people in here bitching are probably PC enthusiasts/purists. For a lot of other people, OnLive isn't a bad proposition. If you sign up for more than a month at a time, you get a reduced subscription fee, and the "hardware" (adapter for the tv and probably a remote or two as well) is going to be free with a subscription. The CEO of OnLive, whatever his name is, has said so more than once.

So, for less than the price of a WoW subscription, you get access to the service on your PC, TV, or phone and the ability to purchase games at reduced prices (albeit, probably not more than $5 or $10). A lot of people here don't seem to understand the value of plug-and-play to most people, of not having to upgrade and tweak your computer or fret over system requirements and compatibility. Hell, just think of all the people with Macbooks who would kill for this.

As someone who isn't a PC-gaming enthusiast but regularly sees PC games that I would like to play, I could definitely see myself picking this up. Never having to upgrade my computer? Hell yes! I don't care about how easy it is, I have absolutely no desire to. Anyway, a yearly subscription will probably cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $120, which looks good when compared to the cost of upgrading a computer. Cheaper games? Hell yes! Not being forced to tweak settings to get the game to run decently? Hell yes!... and before someone talks about how OnLive games look like shit, check out some of the Crysis demonstrations, they look more than good enough to satisfy me. My laptop could run Crysis at 720p and medium settings, and it didn't look near that good.

The amount of time that I have power in my house and not have an internet connection is absolutely minimal. I bet this is true for most other people as well. Also, being able to rent a PC game is great. Being able to play my games anywhere, on any computer or TV with a valid internet connection? Absolutely awesome. In a few years (hopefully, assuming America gets its broadband shit together), the people on this board will be laughing at people without 10 mbps connections, like they do at 56k right now, and by then OnLive will probably be able to stream 1080p. And all these people bitching about lag, mostly from that one preview from that guy who wasn't in beta? Just looking for a reason to bash. Both image quality and responsiveness degrade when you're outside of the server range, and the vast majority of the American population is well within the limit of OnLive servers. If ping is less than 100ms at the far border of a server's range (1000 miles), how bad could it be for most of us, who live a hell of a lot closer than that?

OnLive, to the majority of gamers, really only has 2 problems: the inability to mod, and the chance of not buying a game over the course of a month, in which case, yes, you are paying just to play your games. I'm assuming that OnLive will have some networking/social features beyond just brag clips to make the service more valuable in the event that you aren't purchasing games. Still, even if they don't, and you go a month without purchasing a new game, $15 or less isn't very much when leveraged against the cost of a computer.

Basically, I really do think that if the library of games is big enough (they're going to need a hell of a lot more than just the 16 or whatever they had in beta, I don't see why publishers wouldn't put most/all of their games on the service), the game discounts are good enough, and the servers are reliable enough, OnLive is going to be a great alternative to all the gamers who don't feel like wading through computer bullshit, a.k.a., me and a shit ton of other people.
 
I think this price is fine. Thought I think all the cheapskates and "hardcore" PC gamers are hurt by this news.

This service isn't for me because I have a "gaming" PC already and I don't really game anywhere else than home. I just don't need the mobility.
 

Agent X

Member
SILVO said:
Wait... you actually thought that they would let you buy the full version of a game for $10 or less? You think that piracy/resale and brick-and-mortar retailers account for $40 of every game sold? /facepalm...

No, I said I hoped they would, knowing that OnLive previously stated that there would be costs for individual games in addition to a fee for the overarching service.

If there was no fee for the service (or a very low fee), then I could understand game prices being higher (meaning closer to the full retail cost). Or, they could go the other way, where you pay a higher monthly fee, but you would have full access to any game in the library for no added costs (kind of like what GameTap does now).

Since they now confirmed that the fee is $15 a month, I would say that for the service to have any chance of taking off, the individual games would have to be very affordable, meaning $10 or less. Remember, there's no "ownership" of these games, it's really more like an extended rental period. Hardcore PC gamers would not be interested in this service, so it's the casual (or, shall we say, "less hardcore") gamers who would be likely to dabble in OnLive, but they shouldn't be expected to pay close to what it would cost to just outright buy the game, considering they have to pay a service fee as well.
 

vireland

Member
ATF487 said:
Nobody pays 8 dollars a month for Live :lol

It's 4 dollars per month if you buy the year, or cheaper if you buy the cards when they're on sale/ebay like I do.

Seriously. The last three year cards I bought (we have 3 360's in the house) worked out to $2.15/mo per 360. If you buy when the deals happen, the cost of XBOX Live is almost irrelevant now.
 
vireland said:
Seriously. The last three year cards I bought (we have 3 360's in the house) worked out to $2.15/mo per 360. If you buy when the deals happen, the cost of XBOX Live is almost irrelevant now.

Because we all have the time to spend to wait and keep a lookout for a deal on xbox live subscriptions.

Time IS money man. If I have to work 5 hours to save 15 bucks, then I've effectively worked for $3.00/hr. What a shitty pay that is. (Now that it's the internet. Insert/change whatever you want in this equation, to fit your reality and tell me I'm wrong...)
 

Slavik81

Member
Aaron said:
$15 a month + cost of games isn't realistic because very few people will go in for it. This is a service for people who don't want to pony up the money to upgrade their computer every four years. That's $720 for the basic service, not counting the games. It means essentially no savings at all, and a lesser experience to boot.
I agree. But the costs of providing the service simply require it be that expensive, at least for now. The first cell phones sucked and were horribly expensive and 99.9% of people would have no reason to buy one when inexpensive public payphones were everywhere. But to expect them to have been cheap would have been ridiculous. Eventually we got cell phones that were not only better, but were cheaper too. And then they started going mainstream.

The market for this will be niche for quite some time. But to have expected better would have been silly. I've made my case in nearly every thread about it that this would suck for most people. Eventually it might improve as our communications technology advances.
 

SILVO

Banned
Agent X said:
No, I said I hoped they would, knowing that OnLive previously stated that there would be costs for individual games in addition to a fee for the overarching service.

If there was no fee for the service (or a very low fee), then I could understand game prices being higher (meaning closer to the full retail cost). Or, they could go the other way, where you pay a higher monthly fee, but you would have full access to any game in the library for no added costs (kind of like what GameTap does now).

Since they now confirmed that the fee is $15 a month, I would say that for the service to have any chance of taking off, the individual games would have to be very affordable, meaning $10 or less. Remember, there's no "ownership" of these games, it's really more like an extended rental period. Hardcore PC gamers would not be interested in this service, so it's the casual (or, shall we say, "less hardcore") gamers who would be likely to dabble in OnLive, but they shouldn't be expected to pay close to what it would cost to just outright buy the game, considering they have to pay a service fee as well.

Bah, I wrote out a response but my computer fucked up and it didn't get posted, so I'm gonna Cliffnotes (Cliffsnotes?) it for you:

($50 game x 10 games) + ($500 computer) = $1000

($40 OnLive game x 10 games) + (4 years of Onlive at $12/month (yearly sub guesstimate)) = $976

The discount from the games will (hopefully) cancel out the sub fee, leaving you paying essentially the same price, except at the end of 4 years you won't have to shill out the cash for new hardware. This is dragging a $500 PC to the absolute end of its lifetime, 4 years without a single upgrade, while OnLive is periodically upgraded. Plus, the cost is spread over time, making it easier to pay. After all, that's why people have mortgages, right?

Overall, it doesn't sound like a bad proposition to me.

Just realized this, actually:

($50 game x 20 games) + ($500 computer) = $1500
($40 OnLive game x 20 games) + ($12/month for 4 years) = $1376

OnLive is comparatively cheaper the more games you buy.
 

vireland

Member
btgorman said:
Because we all have the time to spend to wait and keep a lookout for a deal on xbox live subscriptions.

Time IS money man. If I have to work 5 hours to save 15 bucks, then I've effectively worked for $3.00/hr. What a shitty pay that is. (Now that it's the internet. Insert/change whatever you want in this equation, to fit your reality and tell me I'm wrong...)

Heh, thanks for the advice.

Here's a clue from me. It takes 30 seconds to set up a deal alert at a site like slickdeals (CAG has alerts, too). Put in a few keywords and it emails you when a matching deal is posted. If the price isn't what you want, delete the email and wait for the next one. Buy when you get sent a deal that hits your threshhold. Cumulative time spent screening if your keywords don't give too many false posiitives: probably about 10 minutes a year. Savings off retail? Usually about $22/card for me, sometimes more.
 
Edeuinu said:
I'd pay $15/mo for this again...

SEGA_CHANNEL_1jpg.JPG


OnLive, prob not. :D


I used to stay up till 3am est to see what the next month had. Loved the background themes. So easy to navigate but seem to have a lot of issues at times. Still got the adapter.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Future said:
Price is fine. It is in tune with NetFlix, WOW and similar subscriptions. Games may cost extra, similar to how you rent your cable box and still pay for specific channels.

I just wonder about performance. Word 2010 in the cloud seems doable. Street Fighter 4 which requires precision timing? No thanks. That said, there may be a class of games that can handle the lag without getting too annoying (rpgs).

You haven't thought about this hard enough.
 

benjipwns

Banned
SILVO said:
Just realized this, actually:

($50 game x 20 games) + ($500 computer) = $1500
($40 OnLive game x 20 games) + ($12/month for 4 years) = $1376

OnLive is comparatively cheaper the more games you buy.
I don't know why you'd assume they're going to be so much cheaper.

Or even have a comparable library.

Or why you're assuming this will completely replace your computer.
 

seady

Member
mr stroke said:
Why are so many up in arms about the $15 a month? people do this with there cable TV bills every month

$40 for Direct TV service(mostly basic channels which you can get for free over the air)
$10 for HD
$15 for HBO

+ extra for PPV, NFL ticket, etc....



I would be all for a service like this IF it was able to play games maxed out at 1080p with zero lag(so I guess I won't be joining)


Onlive makes sense IMO, just not yet. Internet speeds and technology aren't there yet.

But you need Direct TV (or equivalent) to get HBO, you don't need OnLive to get Crysis.

If I can get HBO by itself, why do I want to pay for Direct TV? That's why I mentioned earlier if OnLive have their exclusive big titles that can only get through the service, then it would make more sense.

Imagine Valve only let people play Half Life 3 and Portal 2 through Steam (along with other non-exclusive games), a lot of people would pay for the service.
 

Aaron

Member
Slavik81 said:
I agree. But the costs of providing the service simply require it be that expensive, at least for now. The first cell phones sucked and were horribly expensive and 99.9% of people would have no reason to buy one when inexpensive public payphones were everywhere. But to expect them to have been cheap would have been ridiculous. Eventually we got cell phones that were not only better, but were cheaper too. And then they started going mainstream.
Man, what a horrible comparison. The first cell phones were for professionals and novelties for the wealthy, so people who could afford them. This service is presented as saving people expense and effort involved in a new computer... only to be as expensive as a new computer. Why in the world would people do this over the much easier method of just buying a new HP or whatever every four years? There is no market for this service, period.
 

vireland

Member
Aaron said:
Man, what a horrible comparison. The first cell phones were for professionals and novelties for the wealthy, so people who could afford them. This service is presented as saving people expense and effort involved in a new computer... only to be as expensive as a new computer. Why in the world would people do this over the much easier method of just buying a new HP or whatever every four years? There is no market for this service, period.

I'm extremely skeptical as well, but what they're saying users'll save is having to buy the latest, hottest video card/pc combo to run games at full spec with all rendering options maxed. Okay, I can get that, and see the value, too, since that can be expensive. The part I'm skeptical of is how they'll deliver this at resolutions like 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 or whatever, at high framerates. Even if after a full-frame, full-spec render on their end, they are only transmitting the differences from frame to frame, that's a lot of bandwidth, and if they're compressing on the fly to get it to you, I have to think there will be lag introduced as well. Seems like it shouldn't work well. I'll be interested to see the reality.
 

SILVO

Banned
benjipwns said:
I don't know why you'd assume they're going to be so much cheaper.

Or even have a comparable library.

Or why you're assuming this will completely replace your computer.

I'm assuming the games will be cheaper because 1) the OnLive CEO (Steve Perlman) said that savings from the OnLive model will be passed on to the consumer, and 2) if OnLive wants to have any chance at all in getting some semblance of a subscription base, they'll have to.

I'm assuming that there will be a comparable library because there's no reason for publishers to not only put all of their new games on the service, but a large portion of their entire games catalog, seeing as how they not only get a bigger piece of the pie, but don't have to worry about piracy.

I never assumed that it would replace my computer, just that it would be added onto it, negating the need to worry about gaming-quality components.
 
I still think the service has potential to improve despite the criticisms. Compression will get better, hardware will get cheaper... it'll just take some time. As of right now, though, I wouldn't pay for it (free trial wouldn't hurt).
 

benjipwns

Banned
SILVO said:
I'm assuming the games will be cheaper because 1) the OnLive CEO (Steve Perlman) said that savings from the OnLive model will be passed on to the consumer, and 2) if OnLive wants to have any chance at all in getting some semblance of a subscription base, they'll have to.
But what reasons do publishers have to lower prices? They've cut out retailers on DD and they still haven't outside of sales. And in those cases you don't have to pay another premium to access your games. (And you can max them out, etc.)
I'm assuming that there will be a comparable library because there's no reason for publishers to not only put all of their new games on the service, but a large portion of their entire games catalog, seeing as how they not only get a bigger piece of the pie, but don't have to worry about piracy.
But will they cut out everyone who doesn't use OnLive? And what kind of costs will there be for them to put the games on the system?
I never assumed that it would replace my computer, just that it would be added onto it, negating the need to worry about gaming-quality components.
So then you can't take the cost of a computer out of the OnLive equation.
 

Reikon

Member
SILVO said:
($50 game x 20 games) + ($500 computer) = $1500
($40 OnLive game x 20 games) + ($12/month for 4 years) = $1376

OnLive is comparatively cheaper the more games you buy.

Two big assumptions there.

First: Normal PC games cost $50. This is pretty much never the case, especially if you wait like a week from release or take advantage of preorder bonuses.

Second: OnLive games are cheaper than retail games. All they said was that they'd offer a competitive price, which is usually read MSRP.
 

Aaron

Member
vireland said:
I'm extremely skeptical as well, but what they're saying users'll save is having to buy the latest, hottest video card/pc combo to run games at full spec with all rendering options maxed. Okay, I can get that, and see the value, too, since that can be expensive. The part I'm skeptical of is how they'll deliver this at resolutions like 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 or whatever, at high framerates. Even if after a full-frame, full-spec render on their end, they are only transmitting the differences from frame to frame, that's a lot of bandwidth, and if they're compressing on the fly to get it to you, I have to think there will be lag introduced as well. Seems like it shouldn't work well. I'll be interested to see the reality.
There are two major problems with this, which you're probably already aware of. The race to high spec has slowed down a lot in the past few years. My computer is 3-4 years old and it can run Crysis near maxed out with 60FPS. The second is the people who give a shit about maxing out the details of a game aren't going to settle for some remote play. They are going to buy a new PC. While the market this seems to be aimed at, the ones who won't be troubled by a bit of lag or lower specs, are better off buying a three year old PC (which they'll need for the service anyway). And that's all assuming this runs near to ideal.

PS - If you don't buy PC games new, you can get them dirt cheap in six months or less. They depreciate quicker than console games on average.
 

SILVO

Banned
benjipwns said:
But what reasons do publishers have to lower prices? They've cut out retailers on DD and they still haven't outside of sales. And in those cases you don't have to pay another premium to access your games. (And you can max them out, etc.)

First of all, they won't lose money to rampant PC piracy. Piracy has a higher cost in PC gaming than any other platform, so being able to sell PC games without the risk of piracy is a huge boon for publishers, and something they would want to strongly support. Secondly, it isn't entirely about them lowering their prices. OnLive gets revenue from their subscription fee in addition to games, so they have flexibility, which they'd be wise to exercise, seeing as how the success of their platform depends on it.

benjipwns said:
But will they cut out everyone who doesn't use OnLive? And what kind of costs will there be for them to put the games on the system?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

benjipwns said:
So then you can't take the cost of a computer out of the OnLive equation.

I think I can. We're talking about purchasing a game platform that I don't have: I have a computer, I don't have a gaming-worthy computer. Even if I did have to buy a new computer for general use in 4 years, it would be cheaper than a gaming one, and my total cost on computers would be one computer less than if I bought one right now. And even if I couldn't take out the cost, it would only be fair to scale the new PC's cost with the performance upgrades OnLive would experience over 4 years. So, assuming that OnLive plays a game that releases in 4 years as well as it plays a game that released right now (in terms of resolution, settings), the PC would have to play a new game 4 years from now just as well as it plays a new game today, which might come out to $75-$100 worth of upgrades a year.
 

benjipwns

Banned
SILVO said:
First of all, they won't lose money to rampant PC piracy. Piracy has a higher cost in PC gaming than any other platform, so being able to sell PC games without the risk of piracy is a huge boon for publishers, and something they would want to strongly support.
So they'd completely cut out any consumer not on OnLive?
Secondly, it isn't entirely about them lowering their prices. OnLive gets revenue from their subscription fee in addition to games, so they have flexibility, which they'd be wise to exercise, seeing as how the success of their platform depends on it.
Yes, OnLive would, but that's no reason for publishers to lower the cost of the games.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.
What will it cost for publishers to put their games on OnLive? Retailers take a cut, the console companies take a cut, Valve takes a cut, what will OnLive's cut be?
I think I can. We're talking about purchasing a game platform that I don't have: I have a computer, I don't have a gaming-worthy computer. Even if I did have to buy a new computer for general use in 4 years, it would be cheaper than a gaming one
I think you're going to have to define a price range here. Because as brain_stew and others have noted you can get a "gaming worthy computer" that can also be "general use" for the cost of OnLive per year after you make an initial base investment.

And THEN you can save money by buying games in a competitive market, and you get to keep them, play them offline to avoid lag, max them out, etc.
And even if I couldn't take out the cost, it would only be fair to scale the new PC's cost with the performance upgrades OnLive would experience over 4 years. So, assuming that OnLive plays a game that releases in 4 years as well as it plays a game that released right now (in terms of resolution, settings), the PC would have to play a new game 4 years from now just as well as it plays a new game today, which might come out to $75-$100 worth of upgrades a year.
But you also have to assume OnLive even exists in four years when it has such a questionable business model.

And what happens if Activision decides to throw its weight around and demand royalties and no fees for Modern Warfare 3 or they pull their catalog? (Things that have basically happened with services like GameTap.)
 

PSGames

Junior Member
One thing that's cool about this is you could sign up for a month or 2 to play the hottest games out and then cancel your subscription right? And start it back up whenever you feel like it. That offers great flexibility. Why are people acting like they'll have to be subscribed for 4 years straight?
 

Aaron

Member
PSGames said:
One thing that's cool about this is you could sign up for a month or 2 to play the hottest games out and then cancel your subscription right? And start it back up whenever you feel like it. That offers great flexibility. Why are people acting like they'll have to be subscribed for 4 years straight?
Great if you only want to play those games in those two months and not again until you re-sub, and also don't mind paying full/near full price for those hottest games you don't own.
 
PSGames said:
One thing that's cool about this is you could sign up for a month or 2 to play the hottest games out and then cancel your subscription right? And start it back up whenever you feel like it. That offers great flexibility. Why are people acting like they'll have to be subscribed for 4 years straight?

Mainly because you have to also buy the hottest games out there, then when you cancel the subscription you'd no longer have access to them.

So let's say you sign up for a month $14.95
5 games @$40 each = $200 (guessing at the cost of a game)

That's $214.95 for a month of gaming......
 

Dresden

Member
PSGames said:
One thing that's cool about this is you could sign up for a month or 2 to play the hottest games out and then cancel your subscription right? And start it back up whenever you feel like it. That offers great flexibility. Why are people acting like they'll have to be subscribed for 4 years straight?
Because you need to buy each game you play, and you'll lose access to the games once you stop subscribing.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
They also have rentals folks you don't have to purchase the games outright. PLUS I don't know about you but once I beat a game I rarely play it again. Maybe that's just me. But IF you do get the urge to play again down the road you just sign up for another month and BAM you have access to your games again.
 

SILVO

Banned
benjipwns said:
So they'd completely cut out any consumer not on OnLive?

Yes, OnLive would, but that's no reason for publishers to lower the cost of the games.

What will it cost for publishers to put their games on OnLive? Retailers take a cut, the console companies take a cut, Valve takes a cut, what will OnLive's cut be?

I think you're going to have to define a price range here. Because as brain_stew and others have noted you can get a "gaming worthy computer" that can also be "general use" for the cost of OnLive per year after you make an initial base investment.

And THEN you can save money by buying games in a competitive market, and you get to keep them, play them offline to avoid lag, max them out, etc.

But you also have to assume OnLive even exists in four years when it has such a questionable business model.

And what happens if Activision decides to throw its weight around and demand royalties and no fees for Modern Warfare 3 or they pull their catalog? (Things that have basically happened with services like GameTap.)

No, I doubt they (the publishers) would cut out consumers not using OnLive, it just makes sense for them to support a piracy-free format.

Publishers set prices where they do because the revenue from sales goes to many different parties, including the retailer, platform royalties, accounting for piracy and used-game sales, etc. An OnLive presentation actual had a graph of where all the money goes. With OnLive, there's only 2 parties that get any money: OnLive and the publisher. Therefore, OnLive and the publisher are able to come to an agreement on the price of a game, and Perlman said that there are cases in which the publisher can actually get more money per game, while the overall price of the game is lowered because revenue only goes to those 2 groups.

Ok. Right now, I have a general use, non-gaming computer that is capable of running OnLive. On this board, the general consensus for a good gaming PC is $500, however I could probably scrounge together some parts and throw together something passable for around $400, before the OS, which isn't cheap. In other words, as someone who doesn't have a gaming computer $550+ is a pretty decent guess for me to get a medium+ setting gaming computer, carrying over a monitor and kb/m. I will have to continue to upgrade this computer to keep playing games at similar settings as requirements increase. On the other hand, I can put OnLive on this computer for $15/month, and probably/hopefully make up that cost in game discounts. I won't have to upgrade it because OnLive does it for me. New games 4 years from now will play well without me having to do anything. I may have to buy another general use computer in 4 years, but still, I've bought one computer instead of two, and my one computer could be $400 total with OS and kb/m included.

I won't be able to max the games out with a $550 computer, plus, I don't want to build one. As I said earlier, I have absolutely no desire to fuck around with that stuff. Constant internet connection and speed aren't problems for me, and lag probably won't be either, given my proximity to a server farm (the same goes for probably 200 million Americans).
 
evalue said:
I pay $14.95/month and I need an online PC to play games, which I can already play online games online on ?

You don't need an online pc, but you need broadband internet. Could opt for their set top box to play it on your TV. I'm sure there's probably an extra hardware lease charge involved there though.
 

KillerAJD

Member
Maybe it's just because I've been playing video games for so long, and have been familiar with them for years, but it just doesn't offer a good enough quality to control lag ratio for me. The games look OK at 720p, but even then, it looks like I'm watching a poorly encoded movie, especially when a lot of movement on screen is involved. On top of this, I just can't get over the disconnect control wise. Burnout Paradise feels OK (and I'm assuming other racing games as well), but everything else just feels janky. The pricing just seems ridiculous as well. $15 a month, PLUS the cost of the games? They are delusional if they think they are going to in business for more than a year. Then again, I'm more of a hardcore gamer, maybe somebody who isn't as familiar with gaming will find a use in it. However, like brain_stew said, I'd be happy to see it succeed just to see more games on the PC platform. Hell, the idea of playing Crysis on an iPhone like device is still something I'd love to see, but I just think having dedicated local hardware would be the better choice atm. I also think with more time (and more pressure on ISP's), it could probably be a decent alternative, but for me, I'll probably stay with my own rig.
 

SILVO

Banned
KillerAJD said:
Maybe it's just because I've been playing video games for so long, and have been familiar with them for years, but it just doesn't offer a good enough quality to control lag ratio for me. The games look OK at 720p, but even then, it looks like I'm watching a poorly encoded movie, especially when a lot of movement on screen is involved. On top of this, I just can't get over the disconnect control wise. Burnout Paradise feels OK (and I'm assuming other racing games as well), but everything else just feels janky. The pricing just seems ridiculous as well. $15 a month, PLUS the cost of the games? They are delusional if they think they are going to in business for more than a year. Then again, I'm more of a hardcore gamer, maybe somebody who isn't as familiar with gaming will find a use in it.

You've played it/are in the beta?
 

JohnnyBabbles

Neo Member
I signed up for the pre-registration. Figured I'd give it a shot for $15 a month. Hopefully I'm part of the 25,000 pre-registrants so I can get the first 3 months for free.
 

benjipwns

Banned
SILVO said:
No, I doubt they (the publishers) would cut out consumers not using OnLive, it just makes sense for them to support a piracy-free format.
So why pay the premium just to get an inferior version of the game then?

The only way OnLive works is if enough publishers support it by making sure everyone who is not on OnLive does not get to play their games. (Which others have noted before in this thread, among others.)
Publishers set prices where they do because the revenue from sales goes to many different parties, including the retailer, platform royalties, accounting for piracy and used-game sales, etc. An OnLive presentation actual had a graph of where all the money goes. With OnLive, there's only 2 parties that get any money: OnLive and the publisher. Therefore, OnLive and the publisher are able to come to an agreement on the price of a game, and Perlman said that there are cases in which the publisher can actually get more money per game, while the overall price of the game is lowered because revenue only goes to those 2 groups.
Just like Steam, just like Impulse, etc. Even in cases where the publishers ARE the only one distributing (EA, Blizzard, etc.) the prices are not reduced during the launch period.

The only difference? In all those instances, the consumer is not paying a $15 a month premium just for the right to buy and access the games.
I won't be able to max the games out with a $550 computer, plus, I don't want to build one. As I said earlier, I have absolutely no desire to fuck around with that stuff. Constant internet connection and speed aren't problems for me, and lag probably won't be either, given my proximity to a server farm (the same goes for probably 200 million Americans).
That's the problem, I don't see the market being anywhere near that big. Anyone into PC gaming has a PC to game with and knows they can get a better bang for their buck elsewhere. Will console-only gamers (who want to pay $15/month to access the ability to buy a select few PC exclusives) really provide a big enough market to sustain the system outside of select urban areas?

Could it work as a rental service? Maybe. But even that seems like economics may work against it.
 
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