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[mrkgoo]

Maps and iBooks are pointless. Besides that the dual monitor display think is fixed. So yay?

Also finder never opens new page in a tab? :/ it just opens a window even though i selected the correct option.

Unless there is a secret feature, this feels a lot smaller than snow leopard.

Why are maps and iBooks pointless?

I see thy may have less versatility than mobile counterparts, but that doesn't devoid them of all use entirely.

I mean people read PDFs on computer so why not books or something else?

And I've always used maps on my computer. Just looking up places is useful. Not to mention flyover on a large powerful machine will be glorious!

I actually want more stuff like find my friends on mac. Sometimes I'm just sitting there on my computer and would like to look up a froend's location. I would rather just do it there on my mac than go get my phone.

 

[japtor]

I've used it to stream NFL games in Safari and it worked pretty well for me.

Heh that's the main reason I'm looking forward to it, or whatever other videos I want to full screen while still using my computer for other stuff.

That's "open folders," not "new windows." Have to switch mentally to Cmd+T for new tab instead of Cmd+N. I agree that that option is dumb because it's almost never relevant and that they should just open everything in a new tab no matter what.

Well that fits in with Safari...does it follow the other shortcuts too, like cmd/opt/shift double clicking a folder opening in new windows or tabs?

 

[Sanjuro]

Fair enough. I upgraded the RAM, which helped a little.

Otherwise, it just feels a bit bloated.

RAM is kind of worthless nowadays. Model should have come with 2GB natively? I'd go with whatever is cheapest, but wouldn't go nuts upgrading that machine.

It is what it is. The hard drives are the largest component of most of those machines being slow. Apple shipped them with garbage.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Easily the least excited I've been for an OS release in a long time.

Metro may not be the most efficient OS - but I gotta give credit to MS for having a really unified feel across all their hardware - phones, tablets, desktops/laptops, and even stuff like the Xbox.

Mavericks seems like a half-step at best for what's really coming. And considering Mountain Lion is fairly new - and not too lacking feature wise - I'm surprised they didn't just hold out a while longer for a bigger refresh. I agree with most everyone else - I think 10.10 is when we're going to see a huge transition.

I expect 10.10 to - at the very least - finally completely rid OSX of skeuomorphism and bring in the modern, light, and colorful aesthetic of iOS. But assuming they go further with it - I could see much greater interaction and integration between the devices. Similar gestures; more familiar settings; a more common notification system. Interactivity between devices outside just iTunes.

Anyway - I'll upgrade my rMBP to Mavericks (or, hopefully, pick up a new MBP if the Retina model 15" retains a dedicated GPU). But I can't say I'm super excited about it at all.

 

[Servbot24]

Can't wait for proper dual monitor support. Long overdue.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Easily the least excited I've been for an OS release in a long time.

Metro may not be the most efficient OS - but I gotta give credit to MS for having a really unified feel across all their hardware - phones, tablets, desktops/laptops, and even stuff like the Xbox.

Mavericks seems like a half-step at best for what's really coming. And considering Mountain Lion is fairly new - and not too lacking feature wise - I'm surprised they didn't just hold out a while longer for a bigger refresh. I agree with most everyone else - I think 10.10 is when we're going to see a huge transition.

I expect 10.10 to - at the very least - finally completely rid OSX of skeuomorphism and bring in the modern, light, and colorful aesthetic of iOS. But assuming they go further with it - I could see much greater interaction and integration between the devices. Similar gestures; more familiar settings; a more common notification system. Interactivity between devices outside just iTunes.

Anyway - I'll upgrade my rMBP to Mavericks (or, hopefully, pick up a new MBP if the Retina model 15" retains a dedicated GPU). But I can't say I'm super excited about it at all.

Aw hell no. Keep iOS 7 away from OS X. The theme is fine the way it is (maybe add back in a little more color.)

And Mac apps make much more sense to have skeumorphic interfaces.

 

[LCfiner]

Why are maps and iBooks pointless?

I see thy may have less versatility than mobile counterparts, but that doesn't devoid them of all use entirely.

I mean people read PDFs on computer so why not books or something else?

And I've always used maps on my computer. Just looking up places is useful. Not to mention flyover on a large powerful machine will be glorious!

I actually want more stuff like find my friends on mac. Sometimes I'm just sitting there on my computer and would like to look up a froend's location. I would rather just do it there on my mac than go get my phone.

I would not call them useless. They do offer some decent functionality.

But I do think it’s a little odd to tie those things to an OS update and so I can’t really consider them big features of 10.9, as I’m so used to these kinds of functions appearing in free standalone apps or in web browsers. Most consumers are used to Amazon, B&N, kobo apps to be standalone apps so Apple touting iBooks as part of an OS update is a little odd.

Similarly, Google and bing maps are web apps and have been with us for ages. Apple Maps being a Mac OS app - again tied to an OS update - seems to be a little odd compared to how we’re used to using map applications on the desktop.

And, honestly, I find the Apple built in Maps app to be relatively feature poor and the mouse/ keyboard UI to be pretty bad. It’s built only for the trackpad, really, for fast zooming, rotation commands.

If it were a native app that blew web pass out of the water, I could see more appeal. But it really feels like a simple port of the iOS app

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Aw hell no. Keep iOS 7 away from OS X. The theme is fine the way it is (maybe add back in a little more color.)

And Mac apps make much more sense to have skeumorphic interfaces.

Different strokes for different folks. Don't get me wrong - I don't want the iOS "feel" to come over. Heck, I already hate this resurgence of full-screen apps. I have a high resolution and large monitor for a reason; I want to layer my applications and whatnot. I'm just saying - aesthetically - I find OSX to now be, well, kind of outdated looking. Which trutfully is hard to admit; because for a long while, it looked leaps and bounds better than its competition.

But Metro is slick. MS's Office Apps are slick. Ubuntu is slick. Heck, ChomeOS is slick. ... and now, Apple has a really modern and slick looking OS, too - they just need to bring that over to their laptops and desktops.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Different strokes for different folks. Don't get me wrong - I don't want the iOS "feel" to come over. Heck, I already hate this resurgence of full-screen apps. I have a high resolution and large monitor for a reason; I want to layer my applications and whatnot. I'm just saying - aesthetically - I find OSX to now be, well, kind of outdated looking. Which trutfully is hard to admit; because for a long while, it looked leaps and bounds better than its competition.

But Metro is slick. MS's Office Apps are slick. Ubuntu is slick. Heck, ChomeOS is slick. ... and now, Apple has a really modern and slick looking OS, too - they just need to bring that over to their laptops and desktops.

What constitutes "modern" is going to feel really, really outdated in fewer years than you know. Always better to stay away from fads. OS X is still the best-looking OS out there and has since 10.3.

 

[The Real Abed]

Oh don't get me wrong, I appreciate seamless syncing. And I love Chrome to phone but do I really need a maps app on my desktop? I see further socialisation of the desktop as a distraction. Perhaps it can be used well in certain settings but I think a lot of people see their phone as the place to do stupid, fun stuff and the computer is where you get work done. I am imagining getting Game Center and Facebook style notifications on my desktop while I'm trying to work.

You don't have to use that stuff. It's as easy as unchecking a box. I like having everything come to my laptop.

I don't use Maps though. Maybe if it let you plan out routes and sync them to the phone for later or something... oh wait.. you can do that. So Maps can be useful.

So basically it comes down to just don't use it if you don't want it. It's very useful for some people. I might actually get some use out of Maps if I ever need to go anywhere. And I use everything else all the time.

Except Game Center which I rarely open ever since they gave users the ability to suggest challenges and games to people. Fucking Game Center spam. I had to turn off notifications for the app. Now I never know when I get a friend request in order to avoid getting a thousand requests a day for games I WILL NEVER PLAY. It's worse than FaceBook. Then again we had this complaint when iOS 6 came out and introduced the damn feature. Also I never play games on OS X that come from the App Store. All my games come from Steam so I never really need Game Center on OS X. So it's easy to avoid. But then when I do open it once a month or so, I get this...

With no way to either A) disable challenges completely or B) clear them all at once. Fuck this shit, Apple. Fuck this shit, FaceBook.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

What constitutes "modern" is going to feel really, really outdated in fewer years than you know. Always better to stay away from fads. OS X is still the best-looking OS out there and has since 10.3.

I completely agree with "modern" at some point feeling outdated; but Apple was often times quite above that.

The PowerMac (and almost defunct Mac Pro) still look amazing. I'd say they're timeless designs. The Powerbooks would fit right in with today's laptops if they were just a tad thinner. The iPod doesn't look outdated at all - not even the original white ones if you can find one in good condition. And OSX has looked leaps and bounds better than the competition for about a decade.

The new "flat" design with primary colors and white space may, indeed, be a fad. But I find it much more appealing; and I wish Apple could take some queues from that, and begin the transition to another OS aesthetic that can look great for another ten years.

I mean - I'm glad you like the look of Mavericks. And admittedly, I'm not saying it's bad by any means. It's just, not great anymore. At the very least, they could keep their icons the same across operating systems.

EDIT: Though I do want to note, I'm loving the borderless windows - they look great. And the new Calendar is a huge upgrade. It's small steps like that that aren't uniform across the whole OS that make me feel like it's a "half-upgrade." Again, they don't need to completely emulate iOS7.... it just seems like they kind of started and didn't get exactly where they want to be.

 

[Ermac]

How does one do a clean install? I have an MBA.

 

[Quick]

How does one do a clean install? I have an MBA.

When it becomes available on the App Store, it should be the same steps as before.

 

[The Real Abed]

2011 Mac mini.

I meant what method did you use to install? Reformat or upgrade?

 

[Pyrokai]

I'm still rockin' Snow Leopard.

Best version eva imo lol amirite

(I am)

Although.....my 2008 iMac has a single green vertical line down the screen on the right-hand side. I don't know what's causing this....but I might be forced to get Li--Mavericks if this is a video card problem like Google searches suggest

 

[Fuchsdh]

Snow Leopard still holds up really well. It's definitely the longest supported version for software I can remember.

 

[GSG Flash]

App Nap, which sleeps apps that are not currently visible.

I hope we can disable this.

 

[GWX]

I hope we can disable this.

You can, in an app based manner, I believe.

 

[Sanjuro]

I meant what method did you use to install? Reformat or upgrade?

Upgrade, then reformat. All is well now.

 

[Guess Who]

You can, in an app based manner, I believe.

Yup. Right-click app -> Get Info -> Prevent App Nap. That said, the way App Nap works, the app should never sleep if it's doing anything in the background or something.

 

[The Real Abed]

You can, in an app based manner, I believe.

I haven't had any problems with apps being unresponsive when sleeping. If they actually are sleeping. Because it's so unnoticeable. Developers can choose to use it or not. So it's not really a problem. Your apps aren't suddenly going to stop working because they're not focused while they're playing music or a video or processing something.

App Nap helps you save power when you’re working with multiple apps at the same time. OS X can tell when an app is completely hidden behind other windows. And if that app isn’t currently doing something for you — playing music, downloading a file, or checking email, for example — App Nap conserves valuable battery life by slowing the app down. But as soon as you start to use it again, the app instantly shifts back to full speed. It’s so seamless you'll think it had been running that way all along. App Nap works the same way with Safari tabs, so only the visible tab is running at full speed. With App Nap, CPU energy use can be reduced by up to 23 percent.

It'd be silly to disable it. Keep it turned on. There's no reason to turn it off.

 

[japtor]

Yup. Right-click app -> Get Info -> Prevent App Nap. That said, the way App Nap works, the app should never sleep if it's doing anything in the background or something.

It's one of the features I'm most looking forward to, particularly for all the non visible idle tabs in Safari I leave open a lot. I only have a few windows open at a time but a crapload of tabs.

And Mountain Lion already does something like this to an extent, Mavericks just pushes it further.

 

[GSG Flash]

You can, in an app based manner, I believe.

Phew, thank god.

It'd be silly to disable it. Keep it turned on. There's no reason to turn it off.

I don't have a Macbook so it's pointless for me since I'm not running off a battery(unless it increases overall performance...).

 

[The Real Abed]

It's one of the features I'm most looking forward to, particularly for all the non visible idle tabs in Safari I leave open a lot. I only have a few windows open at a time but a crapload of tabs.

And Mountain Lion already does something like this to an extent, Mavericks just pushes it further.

I just wish Chrome would get its act together and get a bit more energy efficient. It's the only app that ever shows up in my battery menu under "Apps using significant energy".

Don't tell Google but I've been secretly looking into switching back to Safari. It's just that good. I hate to do it, but damn Safari is so nice now. (And smooth. Pages Chrome has problems with seem to work so much better in Safari.) Also I like staying in the ecosystem. It just means I won't be able to use Safari on Windows until Apple releases the iCloud Sync extension for Chrome.

I don't have a Macbook so it's pointless for me since I'm not running off a battery(unless it increases overall performance...).

Why though? It doesn't do anything for performance! And energy saving isn't just a laptop thing. You have an electricity bill, right? There's absolutely no reason to turn it off unless the developer is incompetent and can't program right.

 

[GSG Flash]

Why though? It doesn't do anything for performance! And energy saving isn't just a laptop thing. You have an electricity bill, right? There's absolutely no reason to turn it off unless the developer is incompetent and can't program right.

Well I mean if it's on by default, I'll let it be, but if an application is acting up because of it, I want the option to disable it(which, thankfully, I will have).

 

[japtor]

Theoretically it would do something for performance actually. If you have something in the background like Safari tabs or some other app that's doing nothing, but still taking some resources like some RAM or CPU time, napping the processes kills their CPU use and can put the memory into an inactive and (new!) compressed state. If you're doing something intensive in the foreground, those little saved resources could then be used for that instead (and/or the big battery gains seen by notebook users).

...theoretically.

 

[The Real Abed]

Well I mean if it's on by default, I'll let it be, but if an application is acting up because of it, I want the option to disable it(which, thankfully, I will have).

Yeah. It's there. But you shouldn't have any problems. If an app is busy, it's not going to sleep. It'll only sleep when it's twiddling its thumbs and is hidden off screen or behind other windows completely. As Apple said, it's seamless.

 

[Yoshiya]

safari is much more responsive and my temperatures have dropped 10-20 degrees, lol. i'm a gratuitous tab abuser though, didn't realise the impact was so great.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Checking in. Ready for duty.

 

[sant]

What kind of gain in battery life can I reasonably expect by installing Mavericks and an SSD in my 2011 MBP? I get around 5 hours at the moment.

 

[The Real Abed]

I am having one single problem with Safari though and I've had it for a while now and it's still not fixed and I have no idea how to stop it.

Safari does not like Twitter on my computer.

I open Twitter in a tab and it's at the login screen. So I log in. It asks me if I want to use Twitter for other apps. But then after a few seconds it reloads the page and is back to the login. And if I reload the page myself it still returns to the login screen. It refuses to remember my cookie and won't stop reloading the page. Even deleting the cookie doesn't stop it. I can't switch to Safari until this shit is fixed. But I have no idea how to fix it. Makes no sense. I really want to switch to Safari kind of sort of maybe I dunno.

 

[japtor]

I am having one single problem with Safari though and I've had it for a while now and it's still not fixed and I have no idea how to stop it.

Safari does not like Twitter on my computer.

I open Twitter in a tab and it's at the login screen. So I log in. It asks me if I want to use Twitter for other apps. But then after a few seconds it reloads the page and is back to the login. And if I reload the page myself it still returns to the login screen. It refuses to remember my cookie and won't stop reloading the page. Even deleting the cookie doesn't stop it. I can't switch to Safari until this shit is fixed. But I have no idea how to fix it. Makes no sense. I really want to switch to Safari kind of sort of maybe I dunno.

Wild guess here, delete the cookie, open Keychain Access (if it's still called that) and delete everything Twitter related there (unless there's other things using it), and go into System Prefs->Mail, Contacts, Calendars. At least in 10.8 the Twitter login is saved there. Delete and re add your account if there's something there.

Otherwise my other wild guess would be related to Safari extensions or a white/blacklist fucking up with Twitter. There's usually various tracking cookies with social sites, so if the wrong one is blocked I could see it screwing with the main site if something is wrong.

And/or to test on a fresh test bed, make a new user account and see what happens there.

 

[The Real Abed]

Wild guess here, delete the cookie, open Keychain Access (if it's still called that) and delete everything Twitter related there (unless there's other things using it), and go into System Prefs->Mail, Contacts, Calendars. At least in 10.8 the Twitter login is saved there. Delete and re add your account if there's something there.

Otherwise my other wild guess would be related to Safari extensions or a white/blacklist fucking up with Twitter. There's usually various tracking cookies with social sites, so if the wrong one is blocked I could see it screwing with the main site if something is wrong.

And/or to test on a fresh test bed, make a new user account and see what happens there.

You'll never believe how I fixed it. Well, at least it seems I fixed it.

When the "Allow apps to access Twitter" message came up, instead of clicking Allow this one time I clicked "Don't Allow" thinking nah, it wouldn't be that easy. And now it doesn't reload.

Doesn't make any sense at all. None at all. Why that option would be connected to Safari constantly reloading and forgetting my login.

And it wouldn't have been an extension as I disabled the only two I had a while ago to try it out. Believe me, I had tried everything. I even deleted all the Safari data in my Library and started fresh and it still did it. It wasn't until I tried the one thing I never would have thought of and clicked that button that shouldn't have anything to do with this problem, did the problem go away.

But it's apparently fixed now. I have reloaded a few times and it still logs in like it should. Now I have one less thing standing in my way of possibly maybe switching from Chrome maybe.

 

[charlemagne]

So has any site done formal testing around battery life improvements?

 

[tsumineko]

So this will be my first OS upgrade on a Mac. I'm excited to see the increased battery life above the already excellent time I get out of my 15inch Retina MacBook Pro.

I have a question, will the only way to buy the upgrade be from the App store?

Or can I go into a store and buy it on a disc?

 

[nhlducks35]

So this will be my first OS upgrade on a Mac. I'm excited to see the increased battery life above the already excellent time I get out of my 15inch Retina MacBook Pro.

I have a question, will the only way to buy the upgrade be from the App store?

Or can I go into a store and buy it on a disc?

App store only. But you have a Retina Macbook, so why would it matter?

 

[tsumineko]

App store only. But you have a Retina Macbook, so why would it matter?

I have an external drive.

Thanks for the answer!

 

[Junior Mint]

I'll buy it solely to get rid of the stupid ass skeumorphism in the Calendar app. iBooks and Maps look like recycle bin material.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

The only functional selling-point to this is currently the improved Finder. But for $20-$30, I'm not sure I'd bite.

 

[Jubern]

I'll get it. Hoping the actual release isn't too far off.

 

[Iacobellis]

Easily the least excited I've been for an OS release in a long time.

Metro may not be the most efficient OS - but I gotta give credit to MS for having a really unified feel across all their hardware - phones, tablets, desktops/laptops, and even stuff like the Xbox.

Mavericks seems like a half-step at best for what's really coming. And considering Mountain Lion is fairly new - and not too lacking feature wise - I'm surprised they didn't just hold out a while longer for a bigger refresh. I agree with most everyone else - I think 10.10 is when we're going to see a huge transition.

I expect 10.10 to - at the very least - finally completely rid OSX of skeuomorphism and bring in the modern, light, and colorful aesthetic of iOS. But assuming they go further with it - I could see much greater interaction and integration between the devices. Similar gestures; more familiar settings; a more common notification system. Interactivity between devices outside just iTunes.

Anyway - I'll upgrade my rMBP to Mavericks (or, hopefully, pick up a new MBP if the Retina model 15" retains a dedicated GPU). But I can't say I'm super excited about it at all.

The battery and RAM/CPU consumption improvements are the big hitters for me. The improved notifications, too.

Like you, I mis the unified iOS + OS X feel that was around on iOS 5/Lion and iOS 6/Mountain Lion. Microsoft is topping Apple at that, no doubt about it.

 

[ayeorkean]

The only functional selling-point to this is currently the improved Finder. But for $20-$30, I'm not sure I'd bite.

I'm guessing you don't use multiple monitors, currently moving between monitors for the menu bar and dock is very inconvenient. Going full screen with some apps disables the monitors which is fixed in mavericks, also being able to use an Apple TV as an additional display is great. I don't like the fact that these are "features", can anybody speculate on the release date and pricing?

 

[Futureman]

can anybody speculate on the release date and pricing?

10.9?

$19.99, late October.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Yep. Not much changes from DP8. Some Skeuomorphism still exists. And apps are still not consistent between their iOS and OS X counterparts.

iOS 7 isn't consistent. I'm not sure how we'd hit consistency between iOS and OS X. I don't want my whole entire desktop to be white with flat icons.

The funny part is with this whole flat trend is a flat piece of artwork can look just as bad as a baroque "3D" icon. By going flat and using simple shapes, you just reduce the chances that you make things look completely obnoxious.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So...with this new OS out...best place to ask here.

I want to buy a 27inch iMac, and I want to make it as fast as humanly possible and snappy, costs be dammed. 32 Gigs of RAM and a Fusion Drive will do that? Or would that be extreme overkill and get diminishing returns after a certain threshold?

 

[StopMakingSense]

So...with this new OS out...best place to ask here.

I want to buy a 27inch iMac, and I want to make it as fast as humanly possible and snappy, costs be dammed. 32 Gigs of RAM and a Fusion Drive will do that? Or would that be extreme overkill and get diminishing returns after a certain threshold?

Unless you have a specific need for that much ram, that is way overkill.

 

[Iacobellis]

So...with this new OS out...best place to ask here.

I want to buy a 27inch iMac, and I want to make it as fast as humanly possible and snappy, costs be dammed. 32 Gigs of RAM and a Fusion Drive will do that? Or would that be extreme overkill and get diminishing returns after a certain threshold?

Depends on what you're doing. My 2.6 GHz rMBP with 8GB RAM runs plenty fast.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Does Safari still refresh every time you go back a page or did they finally remove that. It's really fucking annoying.

 

[NekoFever]

I'll buy it solely to get rid of the stupid ass skeumorphism in the Calendar app. iBooks and Maps look like recycle bin material.

Haha, Calendar is probably my biggest reason for the upgrade. That and battery life improvements.

I can see a use for iBooks, and slimming down the bloat in iTunes is a good thing IMO. But Maps? Even beside Apple Maps being shit here, I see no reason for the app when there are so many better web-based maps. I'll be surprised if I ever open it.

 

[Iacobellis]

Haha, Calendar is probably my biggest reason for the upgrade. That and battery life improvements.

I can see a use for iBooks, and slimming down the bloat in iTunes is a good thing IMO. But Maps? Even beside Apple Maps being shit here, I see no reason for the app when there are so many better web-based maps. I'll be surprised if I ever open it.

Maps is still bad?