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OT- Official Revenge of the Sith Discussion Thread
- Thread starter shantyman
- Start date
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but star wars fanboys have a thousand times more credibility than star wars haters.Amir0x said:
so really you haters are at the bottom of the pile for credibility.
as for my thoughts on the movie. hayden did a significantly better job than in AOTC. For me the only cringe worthy moments with hayden on screen were a couple of the scenes with him and padme. portman ironically, while a tad better overall, was a TON better in her first two scenes. the meeting in the hallway and talking about moving back to naboo.. I was actually eyebrow raised surprised at how much better she was in those scenes from AOTC. Then she hit us with the rest of the movie and it was only a little better. Though for her final scenes (before giving birth) she upped it a tad more and gave a better performance than she gave for most of the movie (except for those first two scenes). ewan gave an amazing performance. he was funny and cocky when he was with anakin, and a calm, reserved, emotionless jedi knight for the rest of it until the very end. but obviously the star of the show was plapatine/mcdiarmid. not a single bad scene for him IMHO.
the action kicked ass, the pacing was a little fast during the exposition area in the middle. I blame that on lucas catering to all of those fag haters who complained about slow middles. This was one movie that needed it and moved WAY to briskly between the crash landing and Order 66. movie could have at LEAST used another 10-15 minutes.
The force ghost part of the book essentially had two sections. The first was the Qui-Gon section which would have required neeson. This unfortunately was the better section, because not only did they do a great job explaining force ghosts without catering or trivial silliness, but it was also yoda's monologue on how he failed the jedi order and how they at this point can't beat the sith. unfortunately the weaker second section was the only one to make it in where he explains that to obi-wan. oh well.
kasyyk was insanely short and served no other purpose than to get yoda out of the temple. but it was still alright, if short.
overall my favorite movie of the saga. my favorite movie to watch will probably be ESB, but as far as which movie had the most impact on me, ROTS, without question. there was more emotional draw in The Duel alone than the entire rest of the saga combined. Add to that order 66, another emotionally draining scene, and the space battle which tore to shit the space battle of ROTJ, and this movie has elements in it that are arguably better than similar elements in all of the other movies.
just my 2¢
You could totally spot Spielberg's touch in the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel. The
Seeing it twice more digitally tonight.
Order 66 is probably the best scene in any Star Wars movie.
As for
a friend of mine who was completely spoiler free going in liked how they did it as it came as a surprise at the end of the movie. If they left had the other scenes in, the final surprise wouldn't have been such a surprise.
platform about to go over the lava waterfall is something Spielberg loves to do in action movies. Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, Lost World, and Minority Report all have very similar cliffhangers.
Seeing it twice more digitally tonight.
Order 66 is probably the best scene in any Star Wars movie.
As for
Qui-Gon
Spiritreaver
Member
Completely agree, I nearly cried, absolutely saddest point of the entire film. Oh and I loved it, I had some issues with certain parts, but overall it was very good, I loved the final shot and of course the music that accompanied it, my favorite little moment. I'll need to see it a couple of more times to determine how it ranks with the others for myself, but it definitely didn't top ROTJ for me, my favorite of the films.ManaByte said:
Also I must agree with many others, Vader's scream near the end was the worst thing I've ever witnessed. It nearly ruined the ending for me, but thank god it definitely made up for it. I also didn't really enjoy too much of the opening battle, simply because the battle droids had annoying voices (they were different), and they kept making such unnecessary comments. The droid humor should have stopped in TPM. :/ That's about it for me though, well that comes to mind. I thoroughly enjoyed the rest.
Drinky Crow
Banned
That New Yorker review nailed it right on the money.
However, the reviewer got one thing wrong: Star Wars fanboys LOVE the sterility and safety of the Star Wars universe, much as Trek fanboys do theirs. The black-and-white characters; the sterile environments; the simplicity of the pseudo-science; the formal, restrained, nearly invisible sexuality; the rigid regimented classes and orders: it all appeals to the uncomfortable geek looking for a predictable milieu to envision himself in.
However, the reviewer got one thing wrong: Star Wars fanboys LOVE the sterility and safety of the Star Wars universe, much as Trek fanboys do theirs. The black-and-white characters; the sterile environments; the simplicity of the pseudo-science; the formal, restrained, nearly invisible sexuality; the rigid regimented classes and orders: it all appeals to the uncomfortable geek looking for a predictable milieu to envision himself in.
Spiritreaver
Member
Yeah, this sums up how I felt exactly. The scene just plays out so well, I was shocked, I had my mouth open the entire time.ManaByte said:
WOO STAR WARS! I thought ep3 was totally awesome and all the duels were really good, and the acting was MUCH BETTER. I watched attack of the clones before leaving to go in line and you REALLY can see how much better they did. My only question is
what the fuck was up with Natalie Portman's make up in that first scene? Anakin goes talking about how she is so beautiful and then she turns around and it's like OMG NATALIE WHAT DID GEORGE LUCAS DO TO YOU!
* Anakin cuts off Dooku's hands
-later-
<Anakin> I can't kill an unarmed man!
One of the countless examples of hillariously stupid writing. When the script wasn't fucking things up, it was fun, but hahaha man, whoever thinks the movie had decent dialouge needs to stop reading teen novels.
-later-
<Anakin> I can't kill an unarmed man!
One of the countless examples of hillariously stupid writing. When the script wasn't fucking things up, it was fun, but hahaha man, whoever thinks the movie had decent dialouge needs to stop reading teen novels.
BobbyRobby
Member
Final shot of Owen and Beru holding baby Luke while looking at the multiple suns of Tatooine was magnificent.
Random complaint: There were too many boss characters in the prequels, who seemed to serve no other purpose than to look cool, have a crazy fight, and die. The robot with four arms seemed gratuitous, just like Darth Maul.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I saw it the afternoon, and had some thoughts to share. First off, I really enjoyed it, and I think I'll love it after a second and third viewing. It's got so much going on that it's hard to put it all together in one viewing.
Ok, yes, the dialog was not great, but you know what, it never has been. Same for the acting. I don't see Star Wars movies for exceptoinal dailog and acting. That said, it wasn't as bad as some here are saying when you view it in the context of the entire series. Obviously we've become more jaded about this over the years, but if you want to see bad acting in a Star Wars film, just watch Harrison Ford mailing it in in Jedi.
What I liked about the film: The lightsabre battles were a blast. It's like we finally got to see the Jedi unleased. Even more so than in the last film. Great stuff, and you really get a sense that Obi Wan is more powerful than we thought, and he's not even close to being as powerful as Anakin. Palpatine was nicely evil, and plotting. The first two films were more about his back room plotting, and in here, we see it all come together. The scene following the issuing of Order 66. Amazing stuff. Very emotional. In fact, this movie is easily the most emotional of all the films imho, even more so than Empire. Loved the nods to the big fans out there, like the Falcon flying into the hanger, and Grand Moff Tarkin at the end. Damn that guy looked like a young Peter Cushing. Was it CG or a real actor? The final scene was wonderful. 'Nuff said.
What I didn't like: Anakin joins Palpatine too quickly. They had it set up for him to join, the ground work was there, and than they kind of spoiled it by having him give in so easily. Wasn't very convincing. Grevious was kind of a let down. If you watched the Clone Wars cartoons, he was a complete bad ass, and yet Obi Wan schooled him. More proof of how powerful Obi Wan is. I didn't like the way Anakin was defeated. Seemed rather abrubt after such a great battle between these two long friends now sworn enemies. Also, we have all this technology. I mean, we can travel from one end of the galaxy to another in no time, we have intelligent droids, lightsabres, blasters, clones, etc. and yet we don't have enough technology to know that Padme is pregnant with twins??? Come on!
As for the missing scenes, I was really hoping the Qui Gon scene would be in there. It would have been a nice link to a lot of different things in both trilogies. Mon Mothma getting cut was not a big deal to me, nor was seeing the beginnings of the rebellion. Remember, it's going to take twenty years for the rebellion to really get organized. Although there is obviously some dissent now, they will most likely try to act politcially first. Seeing Yoda on Degobah would have been a wonderful way to end the film, to see that Awesome Jedi Maser in exhile would have been both sad and touching. As it was, I was left wondering the same thing about how long it was going to take to build the Death Star, that some others here have already mentioned.
More thoughts later I'm sure...
Ok, yes, the dialog was not great, but you know what, it never has been. Same for the acting. I don't see Star Wars movies for exceptoinal dailog and acting. That said, it wasn't as bad as some here are saying when you view it in the context of the entire series. Obviously we've become more jaded about this over the years, but if you want to see bad acting in a Star Wars film, just watch Harrison Ford mailing it in in Jedi.
What I liked about the film: The lightsabre battles were a blast. It's like we finally got to see the Jedi unleased. Even more so than in the last film. Great stuff, and you really get a sense that Obi Wan is more powerful than we thought, and he's not even close to being as powerful as Anakin. Palpatine was nicely evil, and plotting. The first two films were more about his back room plotting, and in here, we see it all come together. The scene following the issuing of Order 66. Amazing stuff. Very emotional. In fact, this movie is easily the most emotional of all the films imho, even more so than Empire. Loved the nods to the big fans out there, like the Falcon flying into the hanger, and Grand Moff Tarkin at the end. Damn that guy looked like a young Peter Cushing. Was it CG or a real actor? The final scene was wonderful. 'Nuff said.
What I didn't like: Anakin joins Palpatine too quickly. They had it set up for him to join, the ground work was there, and than they kind of spoiled it by having him give in so easily. Wasn't very convincing. Grevious was kind of a let down. If you watched the Clone Wars cartoons, he was a complete bad ass, and yet Obi Wan schooled him. More proof of how powerful Obi Wan is. I didn't like the way Anakin was defeated. Seemed rather abrubt after such a great battle between these two long friends now sworn enemies. Also, we have all this technology. I mean, we can travel from one end of the galaxy to another in no time, we have intelligent droids, lightsabres, blasters, clones, etc. and yet we don't have enough technology to know that Padme is pregnant with twins??? Come on!
As for the missing scenes, I was really hoping the Qui Gon scene would be in there. It would have been a nice link to a lot of different things in both trilogies. Mon Mothma getting cut was not a big deal to me, nor was seeing the beginnings of the rebellion. Remember, it's going to take twenty years for the rebellion to really get organized. Although there is obviously some dissent now, they will most likely try to act politcially first. Seeing Yoda on Degobah would have been a wonderful way to end the film, to see that Awesome Jedi Maser in exhile would have been both sad and touching. As it was, I was left wondering the same thing about how long it was going to take to build the Death Star, that some others here have already mentioned.
More thoughts later I'm sure...
Escape Goat
Member
I liked the movie but I just really did not like the characters at all. I liked Han, Leia, Luke, Lando, Vader. They all had such different and lively characters. Prequel characters had very little heart and felt lifeless. I liked how in this one we got to see some characters display some genuine emotion though.
Original Trilogy all the way though. Sith was great but Clones and Phantom got it off to a bad start.
Original Trilogy all the way though. Sith was great but Clones and Phantom got it off to a bad start.
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I agree about cutting the origins of the Rebellion. There's 20 years between the trilogies, I don't think it's necessary to see the Rebellion start in Episode III.
I also agree about the Death Star. Is it necessary to see it under construction already? I mean, it's not supposed to be completed for twenty years!
Phoenix
Member
borghe said:
Would have also helped explain the rapid exile that Yoda went through. I mean if the Jedi were loved and reveered by everyone and protectors of the people and so forth, would an entire population of thousands of worlds just stand by while they are butchered and not even put up any opposition in the senate? It just seems all too convenient for the jedi order to just be suddenly wiped out over night and no one raises a fuss about it.
And don't forget to introduce Chewbacca. For whatever reason I knew that if they were going to spend more than 10 seconds with wookies they would introduce him - and they didn't 'disappoint'.
Boogie said:
Well the theory with the Death Star is something that big takes 20 years to build and Death Star II was started as a back up a few years after the first one was started.
S.R. Hadden: First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
So, Episode III. Since I'm still hyped and fresh from watching it, my final stance has not arrived yet. Certainly I've come to notice more flaws with Episodes I & II as time has gone on. But for now, I'm pretty satisfied with this one.
First, what I didn't like. A lot of the action seemed "been there, done that". Big space battle with too much stuff to pay attention to. Clones versus droids. Jedi versus droids. General Grievous' spinning lightsabers seemed like they'd be effective, but was nowhere near as entertaining to watch as, say, Darth Maul. It bugged me that a droid general had the lungs of a coal miner. Anakin and Padme's lovey dovey dialogue still didn't click. Chewbacca's appearance seemed pretty forced and with little purpose. On the other hand, there was... not enough Jar Jar. He's not the greatest character, but he did play a pretty big role in the previous two movies. It would've been nice to see what would be going on with him, but instead there were basically a few walk-on appearances.
There wasn't anything they could've done about this due to continuity but... boy, when you're trying to hide a couple kids from the Sith, I can think of few worse ways to do so than to take the kid to the father's home planet and leave him with step-relatives.
However, what was good I really liked. Before seeing this movie, when rewatching Episodes IV-VI I knew in my mind that Darth Vader was supposed to be Anakin Skywalker, but there seemed a total disconnect between that character and the kinda whiny guy from Episodes I & II. This movie did an awesome, awesome job of showing the transition. Take petulance, overprotectiveness, and general overflow of emotion. Add in long-term influence by a secret Sith. Make the abilities of the Dark Side seem not as dangerous as they are, and necessary for the safety of those one wishes to protect. Get mislead and be willing to go along self-deluding about the situation. Tada. I'll look at the original trilogy's Darth Vader in a completely different way, now. He's not just an evil badass... he's a guy who really thinks what he's doing is a "necessary evil" to make the galaxy the place he thinks it should be, and has lost his key emotional attachments. Considering the smooth transition that the Republic went through into the Empire, it's easy to see how a mislead guy could go from "protecting" one to the other. Actually seeing his disfigurement and restoration made the size difference a lot easier to swallow, too.
Palpatine was also awesome. I think they really lucked out that for Episode VI they happened to get a decent enough actor at the right age for an important but not complex role, who was able to resume the role in a much more complex way in the prequels. Being buddy-buddy with Anakin, slowly introducing Anakin to the benefits of the Dark Side, eventually convincing him to join him... then he got to truly be over-the-top evil with his ugly face and big nasty laugh. Loved the forced and obvious symbolism of him literally destroying parts of the Senate chamber by using them as weapons in the fight against Yoda.
Obi-Wan finally defeating Grievous with a blaster rather than the lightsaber... felt very Indiana Jones.
The birth of Luke and Leia being made to happen almost simultaneously with the rebirth of Darth Vader; a nifty thing. Padme's "losing the will to live" was just corny, though, and makes the "Do you remember your real mother?" thing from Return of the Jedi a bit weird.
I mentioned that many of the action scenes I found superfluous considering the entire series of movies... but it was still neat to see the technology shift to things almost recognizeable as being from Episode IV. The entire Star Wars universe seems a bit weird about technology changing so much even though it doesn't appear like actual abilities have increased or decreased in thousands of years, but hey.
A few things I'm left curious about, though. Like, how well did Dooku know his role in things? It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for someone who's interacted with both Sidious and Palpatine to notice that they're the same guy. But in that case would he be fine with essentially sacrificing himself as part of the bigger plot?
Palpatine mentioned a previous Sith with the ability to cause the midichlorians to essentially create life. This seemed to be the explanation for Anakin's virgin birth. That still leaves the question of: how? Did Sidious (or perhaps a predecessor) go to a bum planet to impregnate a random woman, having a premonition that the kid would be picked up years later? Did the midichlorians do this all on their lonesome and things just happened?
So I'm thinking the small bit about Qui-Gonn near the end had to do with why Yoda and Obi-Wan later disappeared at death. But if Qui-Gonn was communicating from the dead, obviously there was already an afterlife thing going on. So what was so different about the new, better way he tought to the few remaining Jedi? Merely the ability to appear transparently at will, or...?
Now reading and replying to others:
------------
First, what I didn't like. A lot of the action seemed "been there, done that". Big space battle with too much stuff to pay attention to. Clones versus droids. Jedi versus droids. General Grievous' spinning lightsabers seemed like they'd be effective, but was nowhere near as entertaining to watch as, say, Darth Maul. It bugged me that a droid general had the lungs of a coal miner. Anakin and Padme's lovey dovey dialogue still didn't click. Chewbacca's appearance seemed pretty forced and with little purpose. On the other hand, there was... not enough Jar Jar. He's not the greatest character, but he did play a pretty big role in the previous two movies. It would've been nice to see what would be going on with him, but instead there were basically a few walk-on appearances.
There wasn't anything they could've done about this due to continuity but... boy, when you're trying to hide a couple kids from the Sith, I can think of few worse ways to do so than to take the kid to the father's home planet and leave him with step-relatives.
However, what was good I really liked. Before seeing this movie, when rewatching Episodes IV-VI I knew in my mind that Darth Vader was supposed to be Anakin Skywalker, but there seemed a total disconnect between that character and the kinda whiny guy from Episodes I & II. This movie did an awesome, awesome job of showing the transition. Take petulance, overprotectiveness, and general overflow of emotion. Add in long-term influence by a secret Sith. Make the abilities of the Dark Side seem not as dangerous as they are, and necessary for the safety of those one wishes to protect. Get mislead and be willing to go along self-deluding about the situation. Tada. I'll look at the original trilogy's Darth Vader in a completely different way, now. He's not just an evil badass... he's a guy who really thinks what he's doing is a "necessary evil" to make the galaxy the place he thinks it should be, and has lost his key emotional attachments. Considering the smooth transition that the Republic went through into the Empire, it's easy to see how a mislead guy could go from "protecting" one to the other. Actually seeing his disfigurement and restoration made the size difference a lot easier to swallow, too.
Palpatine was also awesome. I think they really lucked out that for Episode VI they happened to get a decent enough actor at the right age for an important but not complex role, who was able to resume the role in a much more complex way in the prequels. Being buddy-buddy with Anakin, slowly introducing Anakin to the benefits of the Dark Side, eventually convincing him to join him... then he got to truly be over-the-top evil with his ugly face and big nasty laugh. Loved the forced and obvious symbolism of him literally destroying parts of the Senate chamber by using them as weapons in the fight against Yoda.
Obi-Wan finally defeating Grievous with a blaster rather than the lightsaber... felt very Indiana Jones.
The birth of Luke and Leia being made to happen almost simultaneously with the rebirth of Darth Vader; a nifty thing. Padme's "losing the will to live" was just corny, though, and makes the "Do you remember your real mother?" thing from Return of the Jedi a bit weird.
I mentioned that many of the action scenes I found superfluous considering the entire series of movies... but it was still neat to see the technology shift to things almost recognizeable as being from Episode IV. The entire Star Wars universe seems a bit weird about technology changing so much even though it doesn't appear like actual abilities have increased or decreased in thousands of years, but hey.
A few things I'm left curious about, though. Like, how well did Dooku know his role in things? It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for someone who's interacted with both Sidious and Palpatine to notice that they're the same guy. But in that case would he be fine with essentially sacrificing himself as part of the bigger plot?
Palpatine mentioned a previous Sith with the ability to cause the midichlorians to essentially create life. This seemed to be the explanation for Anakin's virgin birth. That still leaves the question of: how? Did Sidious (or perhaps a predecessor) go to a bum planet to impregnate a random woman, having a premonition that the kid would be picked up years later? Did the midichlorians do this all on their lonesome and things just happened?
So I'm thinking the small bit about Qui-Gonn near the end had to do with why Yoda and Obi-Wan later disappeared at death. But if Qui-Gonn was communicating from the dead, obviously there was already an afterlife thing going on. So what was so different about the new, better way he tought to the few remaining Jedi? Merely the ability to appear transparently at will, or...?
Now reading and replying to others:
------------
For one, we saw the plans of it in Attack of the Clones. They might have already been constructing it for a few years. Also it wasn't that complete. From recognizeable shell to fully filled sphere of doom is pretty big. The second one appearing so quickly, though... maybe it was being worked on at the same time?suaveric said:
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
If you're quoting a review from the New Yorker, you're missing the point. It's a Star Wars movie. Do you know what any regular columnist for the New Yorker has in common with anyone here? Not too much.
Speaking of The New Yorker, I wish David Denby had reviewed it instead of Lane. The review would have been even more hysterically irrelevant.
I give it a 16 out of 10, except for the damn fool kids crying and making noise all around me.
Speaking of The New Yorker, I wish David Denby had reviewed it instead of Lane. The review would have been even more hysterically irrelevant.
I give it a 16 out of 10, except for the damn fool kids crying and making noise all around me.
Ok, saw it last night... I loved it.
Manabyte- about the Vader suit scene (I'm not gonna use spoilers, because I'm pretty sure most people would've seen it before coming into this thread, or are willing to see spoilers anyway) - the "Yes, Master", which I take from teh traielr, is put in as JEJ's 'voice' - and in teh annointing scene, unless I'm mistaken, Hayden never says 'Yes, Master' - although he does in the security recording... this only retarded fanboy rhetoric now, but the one in the trailer is the Hayden modified from security? Or was it REALLY JEJ? A buh, fuggedabowdit.
Anyway, movie great, Order 66 sad especially the Anakin in the temple bit - there were people definitely going "Oh, no Ani -don't do it!", with girls covering their eyes, and huddling up in their seats. Oh what the hell:
.
I had no issues with Franken-vader - yes, it was pathetic, but such is the portrayal of his situation - tragic, sad, and pathetic.
Anakin's turn to vader proper seems . .a little fast,
. Could've at least portrayed confusion a tad longer.
Anyway, teh best part of the whole thing is how we, as viewers, now perceive the OT, and to a lesser extent, the other PT episodes. Many, many of the scenes in OT (I started to watch ANH straight after RotS, and it was like watching if tfor the first time again) have a different sentiment to them. Just as examples:
Obi-wans discussion with Luke about the force in ANH, and remembering Anakin - he truly is a 'good friend' (but how this reminds him to give Luke his lightsabre is beyond me -
.
When Vader sees Luke getting crispy-fried by Palps, his moment of thought is much more poignant.
etc.etc.
Manabyte- about the Vader suit scene (I'm not gonna use spoilers, because I'm pretty sure most people would've seen it before coming into this thread, or are willing to see spoilers anyway) - the "Yes, Master", which I take from teh traielr, is put in as JEJ's 'voice' - and in teh annointing scene, unless I'm mistaken, Hayden never says 'Yes, Master' - although he does in the security recording... this only retarded fanboy rhetoric now, but the one in the trailer is the Hayden modified from security? Or was it REALLY JEJ? A buh, fuggedabowdit.
Anyway, movie great, Order 66 sad especially the Anakin in the temple bit - there were people definitely going "Oh, no Ani -don't do it!", with girls covering their eyes, and huddling up in their seats. Oh what the hell:
The particular youngling who has a line is particularly poignant, seeing as that is who Anakin was in Episode I
I had no issues with Franken-vader - yes, it was pathetic, but such is the portrayal of his situation - tragic, sad, and pathetic.
Anakin's turn to vader proper seems . .a little fast,
one moment he's questioning his actions (great), then he's pledging allegience and mowing down jedi children
Anyway, teh best part of the whole thing is how we, as viewers, now perceive the OT, and to a lesser extent, the other PT episodes. Many, many of the scenes in OT (I started to watch ANH straight after RotS, and it was like watching if tfor the first time again) have a different sentiment to them. Just as examples:
Obi-wans discussion with Luke about the force in ANH, and remembering Anakin - he truly is a 'good friend' (but how this reminds him to give Luke his lightsabre is beyond me -
"...and he was a good friend...which reminds me, I cut off all his limbs, and left him to burn in Hell, and he dropped his lightsabre"
When Vader sees Luke getting crispy-fried by Palps, his moment of thought is much more poignant.
etc.etc.
sigh.. another part cut from the book, though not as necessary as yoda's failure, was an "edited" recording from palpatine's office during the jedi attack. It basically says (and it was bad in the book.. like a badly edited tape)Phoenix said:
Palpatine: Ah Master Windu, it's good to see you.
Mace: You're reign is over. We're removing you from office.
Palpatine: That would be treason.
Mace: Please surrender.
Very poorly paraphrased, but that is essentially what the tape was from the book. So then Palpatine plays this back for the senate and they believe him.
Also remember that Palpatine was loved by the Senate and the population. The ONLY people who mistrusted him (correctly) were the Jedi and the 2000 senators. Literally EVERYONE else loved Palpatine.
Though I felt this was covered "alright" in the movies. You had Anakin's line about how the Senate were the ones who kept Palpatine in longer than his term was supposed to be, and you had Palpatine's whole "The jedi are traitors. They scarred me, etc" speech. So those parts were IMHO adequately covered. It was only the Yoda running from the Sidious fight and then the "I must go into exile. I have failed" parts that I thought weren't explained well. I was even fine with the force ghosts, it was just sad to omit the other ghost scene because it added much more to the story than just about force ghosts.
Phoenix
Member
borghe said:
That would have done it for me. Otherwise its like you watch the news and the national guard has killed the democratic party leadership and there is a big fire in washington. Next scene the United States becomes an empire and Congress says nothing.
Sounds like I need to just read the book to actually like the story of Episode III and have it roll together and make sense
/nodPhoenix said:
well, to be a pessimist, they built two death stars because lucas already blew his wad by blowing up "THE" death star early in star wars, instead of waiting until ROTJ like was originally supposed to happen.
but if you are a star wars fan and don't want to nit pick abandoned script and story stuff, like phoneix says.. while the death star is the ultimate weapon, why would you only build one of them? I always thought as long as Lucas went that route, it would have been smarter for EU authors to take the concept one step further and have a few (many?) more Death Stars in construction around the galaxy.
but just nitpicking.
Other highlights:
- Buccaneer Palpatine
- <Obiwan> WHAT ABOUT DEMOCRACY
- <Palp> Hey, I know you want to kill me now, but don't. Turn evil! <Anakin> DUR OK
- <Palp> Now that the war is over and all threats are being contained... for the hell of it, let's ditch the republic and form an empire!** <Senate> DUR OK
- The line about using midichlorians to create life being kept.
- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
- *Obiwan hangs on in elevator shaft using open door flooring* <Droid> Put your hands up!
- Return of IT'S NOT FAIR
** Seriously, declaring a dictatorship uses different rhetoric.
- Buccaneer Palpatine
- <Obiwan> WHAT ABOUT DEMOCRACY
- <Palp> Hey, I know you want to kill me now, but don't. Turn evil! <Anakin> DUR OK
- <Palp> Now that the war is over and all threats are being contained... for the hell of it, let's ditch the republic and form an empire!** <Senate> DUR OK
- The line about using midichlorians to create life being kept.
- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
- *Obiwan hangs on in elevator shaft using open door flooring* <Droid> Put your hands up!
- Return of IT'S NOT FAIR
** Seriously, declaring a dictatorship uses different rhetoric.
the movie really should have been AT LEAST 10-15 minutes longer. seriously. it is a great story. but it's a case of lucas trying to cater to the haters by chopping up the typically complained about "slow middle expository" section. if he absolutely HAD to keep it to 2:20, I would have almost had him give up part of the space battle and maybe even a minute or two of the duel in exchange for more development in the middle (that would have probably been criticized), but my perfect cut would be exactly the same as it is now with just a peppering of extra dialogue from the book that's not in the movie.Phoenix said:Sounds like I need to just read the book to actually like the story of Episode III and have it roll together and make sense
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
saw it last night, it was quite good, but I think I'm just over starwars in the OMG STARWARS sense. Left feeling like it was a pretty good movie though. Definately not going to be 1 of the people that feels like "It's an end to a huge chapter in my life"
Some things that made me laugh out loud and drew sniggers from a lot of people in the theater. Temuera morrison as the clones, it's probably an NZ thing but when he
also
Some things that made me laugh out loud and drew sniggers from a lot of people in the theater. Temuera morrison as the clones, it's probably an NZ thing but when he
gives back obis lightsaber and says something like "I think you dropped this" he just looked like such a casual maori :lol
also
when darth vader finds out he killed padme, it looked like a simpsons gag "NOOOOOOOO" while camera pulls back, he also didn't yell very loud, in spoilers I heard he did some almighty scream and everything around exploded and such, also, I was expecting to see vader rock around with a lightsaber for a while and didn't.
I really thought the same thing too the first time I saw it.. but upon second time, even though this is Ian's one failing in not completely selling it, you can at least hear the words Palpatine is saying to convince anakin to turn. I do agree with other's that the scene isn't perfect, and I can't put my finger on it, but anakin's turn, while relatively sudden, is clearly motivated by the fact that he feels there is no other way to save padme. basically palpatine is saying serve under me and I'll save padme, so he says "Yes Master"Sp3eD said:
Boogie said:Umm, the EU authors did do this
so you have exposed my absolute lack of knowledge with the EU.. BASTARD! :lol
what book(s)?
ep I and II i went to see with what i would consider ur normal crowd....but this...i saw last night in manhattan at a 330am showing...all star wars fans....and it was amazing. sure there were the geeks....over dressed...over obsessed.....but whatever omg this movie was amazing. maybe i havent had time to sit down and actually see what i didnt like but i loved it as of now. r2's humor, obi wan being so kick ass, yoda and how he responds to order 66, the whole scene/sequence with order 66....anakin and his self percieved need/weakness...lust for power....everything...
and then at the end fight..with vader and obi wan....omg awesome. couldnt have pictured it better....hayden really stepped it up with his "im fucking pissed....i dont trust u...u might have stolen my girl" look and lines.
and when he finally puts the mask on...that whole surgery scene put up against the birth scene....was awesome....and then the fine finish on his suit and when he takes his first breath under the mask....AMAZING!!!! and how he gets angry and breaks the shackels......goosebumps.
and then at the end fight..with vader and obi wan....omg awesome. couldnt have pictured it better....hayden really stepped it up with his "im fucking pissed....i dont trust u...u might have stolen my girl" look and lines.
and when he finally puts the mask on...that whole surgery scene put up against the birth scene....was awesome....and then the fine finish on his suit and when he takes his first breath under the mask....AMAZING!!!! and how he gets angry and breaks the shackels......goosebumps.
JoshuaJSlone said:
About Dooku: my interpretation is that he knows about Sidious and Palaptine, and is all part of the plan of galactic domination...and even has his own plans to take over Sidious, but is kind of surprised ina a Christopher Lee type way when Palapatine tells Anakin to kill him - that he wasn't prepared for...
Midichlosrians: I was never a huge fan of Anakin being the 'son' of Sidious, and it was in a very early draft, but kicked out just as quick (thankfully). I interpret the lines int he film to be more of an implication, and used mostly as homage to the idea, rather than it being true. All part of Sidious' deceptive mind tricks...he claimed he could make life and prevent death, and it appears that all of this is more of a lie, seeing as he couldn't prevent Padme's death
Midichlosrians: I was never a huge fan of Anakin being the 'son' of Sidious, and it was in a very early draft, but kicked out just as quick (thankfully). I interpret the lines int he film to be more of an implication, and used mostly as homage to the idea, rather than it being true. All part of Sidious' deceptive mind tricks...he claimed he could make life and prevent death, and it appears that all of this is more of a lie, seeing as he couldn't prevent Padme's death
borghe said:
:lol
Can't remember, it was a long while since I read them. I think it was in the Kevin J. Anderson ones. The Empire had a secret installation that designed superweapons. One was the suncrusher. Another was a Death Star that was a "wireframe" and only consisted of the planet destroying laser and engines. And there was a third Death Star that was miniature, consisting again only of the superlaser, and was sort of in the shape of the alien probe-thing from Star Trek IV.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I took it as self-delusion. He comes to the conclusion that going Dark is the only way he can possibly go, and once that's done he doesn't want to consider any alternatives. So he starts totally buying into things like that the Jedi want to take over, and that Obi-Wan is trying to turn Padme against him; he can't afford to doubt.Sp3eD said:
On the subject of people dressing up and such... sure, there were some people like that last night (Rave Motion Pictures, Fort Wayne, Indiana), and even more with just light sabers, but the weirdest thing... as we were leaving we saw a Superman.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
What I liked:
-Lucas seemed to tie Anakin's split-second decision to save Palpatine from Mace Windu into his split second decision to save Luke from Palpatine. I immediately made this connection when viewing it, anyone else? Also, it wasn't "Oh durr I'll join the dark side!" it was "I don't know who's right or wrong right now, that black dude's a prick holding me back and I need Palpatine to save my wife," thus he cut off Windu's arm. It made sense to me.
-I also thought it was horrible how utterly used Anakin was. All he wanted to do was help the people he loved, and all he did was destroy everything he held dear while Palpatine sat back and laughed.
-The lightsaber scenes were awesome. I thought the action was great, beginning to end. Way better than AOTC and better than Obi-wan and Qui-gon v. Darth Maul.
-The music, especially during the scene where Anakin was mulling over what to do about Mace's posse going after Palpatine, was superb. It helped create an emotional impact that really set this one apart from the entire Star Wars saga.
I don't know if I saw the same movie as some of the haters, but I really loved this one start to finish. The other two...not so much but this one was right up there with the OT, maybe even better. I'll have to let it sink in before I can say that. There's just so much crap that goes down and I can't think of anything I would change...
-Lucas seemed to tie Anakin's split-second decision to save Palpatine from Mace Windu into his split second decision to save Luke from Palpatine. I immediately made this connection when viewing it, anyone else? Also, it wasn't "Oh durr I'll join the dark side!" it was "I don't know who's right or wrong right now, that black dude's a prick holding me back and I need Palpatine to save my wife," thus he cut off Windu's arm. It made sense to me.
-I also thought it was horrible how utterly used Anakin was. All he wanted to do was help the people he loved, and all he did was destroy everything he held dear while Palpatine sat back and laughed.
-The lightsaber scenes were awesome. I thought the action was great, beginning to end. Way better than AOTC and better than Obi-wan and Qui-gon v. Darth Maul.
-The music, especially during the scene where Anakin was mulling over what to do about Mace's posse going after Palpatine, was superb. It helped create an emotional impact that really set this one apart from the entire Star Wars saga.
I don't know if I saw the same movie as some of the haters, but I really loved this one start to finish. The other two...not so much but this one was right up there with the OT, maybe even better. I'll have to let it sink in before I can say that. There's just so much crap that goes down and I can't think of anything I would change...
Thaedolus said:
That was fine, the issue I have is going from, "What have I done?!", which was great, showing his confusion at even his own actions...to "I pledge allegience to the flag...". Al they needed to do was to have Hayden look around confusingly while he pledged...ah, minor gripes, really.
Also, while I agree (yes, I am bonafide Lucas-apologist) with the decision (if it were that) to ahve Franken-vader stimble around and pathetically whimper a Nooooo (sad, tragic, pathetic =vader =perfect), how cool would it have been played out:
"Looks like you, in your anger, killed her"
Vader breathes deeply, walls of the chamber begin buckling..
Vader rips the shackles from the table, drops to his knees, bellows an almighty Noooooo as viles shatter, and the medidroids implode around him, with Sidious in the background cackling.
Melodrama, for sure, but still cool. Still think franken-vader is appropriate, though (until Lucas changes it for Special Edition, in which case, I do a 180, and agree with whatever changes he makes.
After all teh hubbub, it makes the scene of Hayden-ghost appearing in RotJ that much more powerful. hooray! Haters be gone.
"Looks like you, in your anger, killed her"
Vader breathes deeply, walls of the chamber begin buckling..
Vader rips the shackles from the table, drops to his knees, bellows an almighty Noooooo as viles shatter, and the medidroids implode around him, with Sidious in the background cackling.
Melodrama, for sure, but still cool. Still think franken-vader is appropriate, though (until Lucas changes it for Special Edition, in which case, I do a 180, and agree with whatever changes he makes.
After all teh hubbub, it makes the scene of Hayden-ghost appearing in RotJ that much more powerful. hooray! Haters be gone.
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