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[Shining Sunshine]

I wonder if there are statistics of publishers and their franchises, and how many are female/male/whatever animal or something.

 

[Alienous]

I'm doubtful that any company would think that having a male protagonist in that kind of game would impact sales significantly. Seems like knee-jerk advice to me.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Small, but firm baby steps. Nice to see.

 

[Dice]

I probably wouldn't have got it if it was about dudes.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Well the comments on the Life is Strange Trailer are already pretty disheartening.

That looks brilliant!

How have I not heard of this before now???

Also, as terribly stupid and misogynistic of publishers as this is, and needs to change, it's the same across virtually every entertainment industry, sadly.

 

[Doukou]

Wonder why, this isn't exactly an AAA game. It's seems like a high-school girl with time travel powers that will have a lot of dialogue and some action scenes. Do publishers really think a male would have made a dramatic difference where they wouldn't publish it otherwise? Maybe if the main character was male they might have pushed a romance angle or something, just seems weird that a small episodic game would fall to the same constraints as a big game.

 

[Cartman86]

I like that a Dev would actually come out and say this (twice now). Hopefully it doesn't blacklist them.

 

[BigDes]

I'm doubtful that any company would think that having a male protagonist in that kind of game would impact sales significantly. Seems like knee-jerk advice to me.

Dont forget that this is a world where gamergate exists.

Publishers know about it and see it for what it is, and instead of saying fuck those guys anyway they will say we need to make sure we can their money as well

 

[Shaanyboi]

Semi-related, but let's not forget that Sleeping Dogs originally had a female lead until the dev was told to change it.

Naughty Dog had pressure to minimize Ellie's presence in the marketing/promotion, and DONTNOD previously had pressure on them for Remember Me's protagonist.

This is far from a unique scenario.

 

[Doukou]

Semi-related, but let's not forget that Sleeping Dogs originally had a female lead until the dev was told to change it.

Naughty Dog had pressure to minimize Ellie's presence in the marketing/promotion, and DONTNOD previously had pressure on them for Remember Me's protagonist.

This is far from a unique scenario.

I disagree, those games were 60 dollar, expensive to make action heavy(at least compared to this) games. The fact that this kind of majority appeal is happening to a episodic game mostly center around a high-schooler with time travel powers and little action(guessing), makes this a bit more notable.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

I can't exactly pinpoint the exact reason, but I really want to play this game,lol

Life is Strange having a female lead actually adds to my desire to play it.

 

[Endo Punk]

Semi-related, but let's not forget that Sleeping Dogs originally had a female lead until the dev was told to change it.

Naughty Dog had pressure to minimize Ellie's presence in the marketing/promotion, and DONTNOD previously had pressure on them for Remember Me's protagonist.

This is far from a unique scenario.

oh man I would have bought Sleeping Dogs if we got Faye Shen instead of Wei Shen.

 

[Vice]

I'm doubtful that any company would think that having a male protagonist in that kind of game would impact sales significantly. Seems like knee-jerk advice to me.

Movie companies avoid casting proven superstars in lead roles in blockbusters because they're women or minorities pretty often. I can see it happening with games.

 

[Dragon1893]

Can't believe this shit still happens.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I really can't wrap my head around this kind of thing.

Not once has the gender of the main character ever influenced my decision to buy a game or not. Is it really such an issue? Is there really such a large part of the audience out there that is put off by playing a female role?

It's just baffling. I mean how does the mind process of that person even work?

Someone provide me a sad yet humourous internal monologue of some idiot who wouldn't buy a game because the main character isn't a dude, otherwise I'll never get it.

Bros don't want to play as a woman. They need to play as a man to be reassured of their masculinity.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I like that a Dev would actually come out and say this (twice now). Hopefully it doesn't blacklist them.

I know. It's a serious issue in this industry in that nobody wants to speak badly about anyone else because they all know each other, and it gets back to you pretty quickly. But this sort of stuff is really, really important.

 

[Endo Punk]

I really like that SE isn't afraid to have female leads in games, hope they can bring back Fear Effect franchise since the IP is under them.

 

[Hastati]

That looks brilliant!

How have I not heard of this before now???

Also, as terribly stupid and misogynistic of publishers as this is, and needs to change, it's the same across virtually every entertainment industry, sadly.

It is stupid and misogynistic, and it does need to change. I'm so sick of the QA-tested, mass market appeal philosophy that's really just a lazy algorithm used ad infinitum by number-crunching, money-obsessed soulless corporate suits. Everyone is just so goddamn afraid of moving an inch away from what everyone else is doing. I mean obviously, there are tons of people everywhere trying new things all the time, but they seem to immediately drown in the sea of overbudgeted and hyper-marketed crap pumped out at this calculated rate. The reasoning on the side of producers and publishers makes sense financially short term, but the kind of factory-produced entertainment we see so often today seems like it will inevitably dilute itself into oblivion. I suppose we just have to sit and wait for the next Renaissance.

 

[Dawg]

I just realized that made it sound like I was excited, but it was merely surprise.

 

[LaserHawk]

It's pretty awful to know that publishers can decide what is in your game and what not. I mean if I have a idea or game to sell as developer you better buy the whole thing or don't bother with it in the first place. It's like some car dealers telling Mercedes Benz that the new S class needs different seats or they don't sell it. Dafuq?

It's not quite as simple as publishers telling people what to put in their games, though. Publishers are basically investors and they have an imperative to put their money into games they think will earn them a return on their investment. Any independant developer has the option to shop around until they find the publisher that is willing to take the risk on their game as-is. If they can't find one, that's when they have to consider changing the content of their game.

I can understand any publisher being wary of publishing a Dontnod game after Remember Me, and that's even before you consider the gender of the protagonist.

Also, as terribly stupid and misogynistic of publishers as this is, and needs to change, it's the same across virtually every entertainment industry, sadly.

That word sure gets thrown around a lot these days.

But I'm convinced that very little of this is about "hating" women. It's more about publishers believing most gamers are men who only want to buy and play games as men, and therefore seeing games with female protagonists as a risky investment. Most of them use marketing data to inform their decision.

 

[kanamechan]

Honestly I don't get where all these female resistance come from? So ridiculous. What are these pubs thinking

I don't think it comes of a real, tangible thing. The issue is marketing. For the longest time, we've pushed that games are a RAD thing for RAD DUDES and hardcore and manly.

The same marketing guys that push this see anything female as something that their audience fears. Not even joking here, that's what I've heard from marketing before, not just in the games industry. As a society, we're convinced that MEN like things that are [NOT WOMEN THINGS]. Because man is defined as "not woman" for whatever silly reason.

It's really weird, really stupid, and I'd argue it's even more anti-men than it's anti-women. I'd be insulted as a guy if marketing thought that way about me. I have never met a guy in real life that actually feels like this, either. But it's a "logical" conclusion from the way marketing runs games as "not those icky girly things".

Another problem is that when a game with a male character fails, people say "the game is bad, that's why it failed". But when a game (or a movie) fails with a female main character, people say "of course it failed, female character". Confirmation bias feeding a vicious loop, coupled by the above idea that men fear identifying with women.

Well the comments on the Life is Strange Trailer are already pretty disheartening.

Sigh.

 

[Altima]

It's pretty awful to know that publishers can decide what is in your game and what not. I mean if I have a idea or game to sell as developer you better buy the whole thing or don't bother with it in the first place. It's like some car dealers telling Mercedes Benz that the new S class needs different seats or they don't sell it. Dafuq?

Publishing game is not free.

 

[halfbeast]

They also played the same card with that Remember Me game. Maybe stop making a big deal about the lead and start developing compelling gameplay. Anyway at least they realise they can't do justice to beat'em ups when they really just want to tell stories, in that respect Life is Strange seems to be playing to their strengths rather than weaknesses. Hope it does well for them but they do need to stop trying to get these sympathy votes from gamers and let the game speak for itself.

yeah, I forgot the game existed until this thread. it's a cheap way to get your game some exposure.

but you can cry wolf only so many times, till people stop listening...

 

[Chariot]

yeah, I forgot the game existed until this thread. it's a cheap way to get your game some exposure.

but you can cry wolf only so many times, till people stop listening...

I don't think you did understand the story about the boy and the wolf.

 

[MokocchiBro]

I'm actually really interested in playing this. Happy to hear they could hold their vision. Hopefully the game turns out to be good.

 

[Rubius]

I understand why they wanted a male lead (potential of more sales) but that's pretty cool. I always love to have more diverse heroes in my games.

 

[motorised mallard]

Bros don't want to play as a woman. They need to play as a man to be reassured of their masculinity.

I think there is a joke in there.

That said, I might actually check this out. No promises but atleast it's on my radar now.
Points for SE for not wanting/forcing to change anything even though they are idiots on other matters.

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

I no longer believe there is a legitimate or worthwhile resistance against it, only poor representation. All the big publishers have examples with options now, we are making progress.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

You'd think all the horny teens would want to play as a hot chick in 3rd person rather than a ugly bald man

Not even a horny teen (37 here) but I've never understood this either. If the option is there I'm always inclined to create and play as female characters, because, uh, I'm a straight male and love women. If I were painting or sculpting the human form I wouldn't make a fucking dude lol. If I were a photographer or artist I wouldn't focus my talents on dudes. Give me women, man. From the straight male perspective they're simply nicer to look at.

 

[artenight]

Yeah, publishers are now misogynistic because they are worried about a game with a female lead character that could interest few people, and this won't help their sales.

There's too much victimism here.

 

[RooMHM]

Is this interview meant to accuse publishers and shame them?
Their goal is to make money, they are perfectly rational. You can t blame them for not wanting to go against their ultimate goal.
You can always praise those who do so if you want.

 

[Aztechnology]

No marketing or general build up of hype/interest from the publisher usually results in a game bombing.

Case in point - Dragon Age Inquisition.

I distinctly remember seeing alot of advertisements for Remember Me prior to release. Also What about Dragon Age: Inquisition? It's selling fine.

 

[Crossing Eden]

No marketing or general build up of hype/interest from the publisher usually results in a game bombing.

Case in point - Dragon Age Inquisition.

You know Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't a bomb right? Pretty sure one of the devs commented in the OT that it sold over expectations.

 

[Dawg]

I don't care what gender I'm playing. If I get a choice in RPGs and MMORPGs, I'll usually make a male character because I prefer the armor and aesthetics of a male character. I don't always like how armor looks like on a female character. It's a personal thing.

But I'm not going to reject a game in which the main character is female. That said, there are not many interesting female characters. Has nothing to do with the gender though. You have loads and loads of male characters so it's easier to find a few interesting ones. Female (main) characters are scarce so it's even harder to find decent characters.

 

[AlucardGV]

It's pretty awful to know that publishers can decide what is in your game and what not. I mean if I have a idea or game to sell as developer you better buy the whole thing or don't bother with it in the first place. It's like some car dealers telling Mercedes Benz that the new S class needs different seats or they don't sell it. Dafuq?

their money, their choices. go indie if you don't want shackles

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Yeah, publishers are now misogynistic because they are worried about a game with a female lead character that could interest few people, and this won't help their sales.

There's too much victimism here.

I think questions do have to be asked when it comes to the idea that female protagonists don't sell games (same situation in films).

Are gamers really buying games more because the main characters are male? Do female protagonists means less sales? Does gender really affect sales and what is the potential of either gender when it comes to attracting newer gamers? Why do people not want to (or want to) play as male or female characters? Why do they even give marketing that much sway anyway when the focus should be on developing games and having marketing do their stuff? Isn't it the job of the marketing departments to market whatever products their companies make? Shouldn't devs have more power and say in what they want to make?

 

[MormaPope]

Eh, Remember me has terrible dialog and writing in general. I don't think women or non white people have to be protagonists only in good games, but these devs really didn't hit it out of the park with Remember Me. Publishers probably had a long list of reasons not to take this game under their wing, how important it was for the main character to be a dude versus a chick for these publishers is unknown.

"These guys made what game? Remember Me? I don't remember shit."

 

[ChitoCrisis]

I'm really sick of publishers who don't want female protagonists in games.

Most of my recent favourite characters are female.

Anyways, I'm glad that Dontnod stayed true to their vision and Square for not forcing them to make any changes. I'm definitely looking forward to this game.

 

[Stilton Disco]

You know Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't a bomb right? Pretty sure one of the devs commented in the OT that it sold over expectations.

Maybe at release, but since then it's practically dropped off the face of the Earth. It was one of the lower selling AAA releases in the US judging by the NPD results, and has barely made an appearence in the PAL charts. Until we hear some official word from EA on how successful it's been, all the actual sales data we have available points to it selling like crap.

 

[striferser]

Good for the developer.
Strange that there's publisher who still think like that...(who ask to change the lead)

 

[LiegeWaffle]

I remember hearing that naughty dog had to fight tooth and nail just to get Ellie on the cover of the last of us, ridiculous

I recall that Elizabeth was not on Bioshock: Infinite's cover because of the focus tests. Can't find a citation for this right now, though.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Maybe at release, but since then it's practically dropped off the face of the Earth. It was one of the lower selling AAA releases in the US judging by the NPD results, and has barely made an appearence in the PAL charts. Until we hear some official word from EA on how successful it's been, all the actual sales data we have available points to it selling like crap.

People were saying the same thing about Titanfall, and someone even made a thread about it, which resulted in one of the devs coming in and laughing at the thread. And like I said, pretty sure one of the devs in the OT mentioned that it's selling over expectations already.

 

[grandjedi6]

Unsurprising. And Square makes more games with female leads than any other big publisher so it makes sense they'd be the exception to the sad rule.

 

[MormaPope]

I can't tell if anyone thinks this in this thread, but thinking that their game was pushed away or if offers weren't accepted for the sole reason that the protagonist is a woman, that's a incredibly naive thought process. Hell, the devs themselves don't paint the situation like this.

They made a game that bombed hard, and it didn't receive high review scores, Remember Me is a middling title through and through. Their negotiating power is weak, Publishers aren't seeking devs that make games that bomb and review poorly. So if you show up at their doorstep and want their support, expect some demands thrown your way.

Unsurprising. And Square makes more games with female leads than any other big publisher so it makes sense they'd be the exception to the sad rule.

Or they were the last publisher asked to fund the game, and ended up being the only publisher willing to work with these devs.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

I can't tell if anyone thinks this in this thread, but thinking that their game was pushed away or if offers weren't accepted for the sole reason that the protagonist is a woman, that's a incredibly naive thought process. Hell, the devs themselves don't paint the situation like this.

They made a game that bombed hard, and it didn't receive high review scores, Remember Me is a middling title through and through. Their negotiating power is weak, Publishers aren't seeking devs that make games that bomb and review poorly. So if you show up at their doorstep and want their support, expect some demands thrown your way.

The devs said that they were asked to change the lead to a male one though, in this situation.

 

[MormaPope]

The devs said that they were asked to change the lead to a male one though, in this situation.

The list of demands given to them probably amounts to more than just that. They weren't given an email stating "if the main character is a dude, we're golden, just change that."

 

[Endo Punk]

The devs said that they were asked to change the lead to a male one though, in this situation.

We don't know the whole story and Dontnod used that excuse last time with Remember Me. They seem to be holding on to this narrative to define the studio, all they are doing is taking the discussion away from their game once again.

 

[Bogey]

Yeah, and when girls check out video games and only see male characters on 99% of the game covers it sort of ends up being a self fulfilling prophesy that gaming is a male environment.

Then again, publishers aren't out there to better society and do charity work. They're looking to make a profit, and if the (probably vast) majority of your target audience prefers playing a male protagonist, that's what you're going to want to have in your game, simple as that.

 

[MormaPope]

We don't know the whole story and Dontnod used that excuse last time with Remember Me. They seem to be holding on to this narrative to define the studio, all they are doing is taking the discussion away from their game once again.

Bingo. The whole story revolves them negotiating with publishers on why they should support a studio that's made one game that bombed and was reviewed poorly. Dude characters versus chick characters and how that influences sales is part of the conversation, but the conversation itself is about publishers willing to work with risky talent.

 

[UrbanRats]

It's pretty awful to know that publishers can decide what is in your game and what not. I mean if I have a idea or game to sell as developer you better buy the whole thing or don't bother with it in the first place. It's like some car dealers telling Mercedes Benz that the new S class needs different seats or they don't sell it. Dafuq?

They're forwarding the cash, it's not that strange at all to me.

Bingo. The whole story revolves them negotiating with publishers on why they should support a studio that's made one game that bombed and was reviewed poorly. Dude characters versus chick characters and how that influences sales is part of the conversation, but the conversation itself is about publishers willing to work with risky talent.

Nothing wrong with trying to gather some goodwill from a select demographics of customers.
This is no different than someone like Miyazaki going on about the core gamers and no handholding, to me.