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[RipperGrim]

Woah how have I not heard of this game? It looks pretty interesting.

Glad they didn't have to change their vision for the game.

This whole thing of female leads and even having a female on the box of game leading to less sales is unproven bullshit. It's what happens though when companies start looking at games less in a creative way and more as a product, always go with the "safe" option even though the games that always become massive success's are the ones taking risks.

If GTA VI only had female leads it will still break sales records, I can gurantee it.

 

[Lime]

structural sexism ahoy!

I wish some people in this thread would criticize this instead of trying to excuse it or change the conversation to something else

Trying to play the gender card once again reflects really badly on the studio. Either go indie or be quite and let the game speak for itself.

"playing the gender card"

"be quiet"

Where have I seen this arguments before?

 

[Lime]

dp

 

[……forgetit]

Also game looks cool, and it's a shame that it's so hard to get a game with a female protagonist published. The industry needs yo change, but I only see it getting worse due to ballooning budgets.

 

[GravityMan]

We don't know the whole story and Dontnod used that excuse last time with Remember Me. They seem to be holding on to this narrative to define the studio, all they are doing is taking the discussion away from their game once again.

Bingo. The whole story revolves them negotiating with publishers on why they should support a studio that's made one game that bombed and was reviewed poorly. Dude characters versus chick characters and how that influences sales is part of the conversation, but the conversation itself is about publishers willing to work with risky talent.

Agree with you two. I strongly suspect that if Remember Me had reviewed well and sold well, then many more publishers would be open to Life is Strange having a female lead character.

Dontnod does not have a good track record. They have yet to make a good game. The only thing Remember Me did well was art direction. Story/characters/writing were mediocre and the gameplay was boring. Most people suspected well before release that the game would not review well and would sell poorly, and it having a female lead had little to do with that.

This entire announcement by the dev just comes across as a lame attempt to drum up publicity for the game.

Life is Strange looks interesting from the videos I've seen, but I am definitely waiting for reviews and impressions first.

 

[L Thammy]

Really sad that this happens, but I think it's in part a result of rising video game budgets. High budgets mean aversion to risk, aversion to risk means, well.

I think we'll first see change happen on the indie front. We already have plenty of data to show that there are about as many female gamers as males. If there are more success stories showing that games with female leads can be successful - female leads that aren't obviously designed just as eye candy - that could be the proof needed to get the larger companies to rethink their policies.

 

[zeldablue]

You say that like Japan doesn't have it's own issues with gender equality in video games. The sexy 1000 year old witches that look ten and similar issues are problems in and of themselves, not to mention a lot of western genres are inherently different from Japanese ones. Really you just prefer Japanese games for other reasons and not some non-existant superiority to western games.

Yeah, the culture is different. They don't deny games with females in them as often. :/ I typically play horror games or Nintendo games, so very rarely am I exposed to the ten year old with skimpy clothes thing.

I'm not super into guns or shooting people. And I don't really like playing as a big beefy dude, because I don't like feeling over powering. I want to feel dwarfed by enemies. It's more exciting to be more on the disempowered side. There's just a lot stylistically and attitude wise that turns me off from most western titles. The consumer focus tested risk averse aspect is definitely souring for me.

Besides all of that, publishers have a tendency to make designers draw the women with less clothes and stuff. Or make the bust size bigger. All of that marketing based feedback really takes a toll on whatever the real artistic vision initially was. I want to see developers win more freedom. I hope that shift happens soon.

Maybe when the economy boosts up, publishers will take more experimental risks.

 

[aeolist]

Their actions speak louder than words, they are clearly trying to make a big deal about mean ol publishers not supporting their games because females. They're coming off insincere and this story is only from their point of view so we don't really have the whole picture. The facts are though they made a lacklustre game withh Remember Me, publishers have no reason to support them unless they prove themself with a good game first. Trying to play the gender card once again reflects really badly on the studio. Either go indie or be quite and let the game speak for itself.

i'd rather have developers speaking out about the kind of backroom deals that happen throughout the industry. it's interesting and reveals a lot about publishers and the publishing system.

and this sounds more like dontnod saying "squeenix is awesome and here's why" than "all these publishers are awful"

 

[sleepykyo]

And Remember Me is a great game.

It was a pretty mediocre game with horrible writing. Neo Paris was nice though and generally the art direction is my primary reason for pre-ordering the season.

 

[Endo Punk]

Dontnod are 2 games old and they already have become insufferable imho. That's not how you get gamers on your side, using shock and awe. Remember Me has a 70 on metacritic and a lot of mixed reviews, generally considered by gamers as a lacklustre game. That speaks volumes than a game with a female lead. If you are inclined to make games with female leads that's awesome, but first have one that actually puts publishers in their place. They are touting their horn early once again and it definitely comes off as a tactic to get some sales, I don't feel they are confident in the product they have.

 

[DavidDesu]

Game looks really interesting to me. I've not really noticed this game before so thanks for the thread drawing attention to it. Definitely will keep my eye out for it.

I just hope the pricing per episode is fair. I worry with Square Enix involved.

Is there any word on pricing or indeed how many episodes there will be in total and how much game time to expect per episode. Season pass pricing???

 

[Lime]

I wish dontnod would hire better writers though

 

[L Thammy]

I typically play horror games or Nintendo games, so very rarely am I exposed to the ten year old with skimpy clothes thing.

Kind of jumping into the middle of a conversation here, but it's kind of interesting that you listed these two. To my understanding, the Japanese horror boom of the late '90s had a pronounced female audience, which is why you have a lot of female leads. Aya Brea, Jill Valentine, the girls from Clock Tower and Fatal Frame (can't remember the names).

 

[Pimpwerx]

Publishers don't have to publish a product they don't like. If they're helping fund the project, they'll get some say. If they focus group and find a male lead is testing better, they might go that route. Not enough info to base a conclusion, but that's one possible explanation I could see for such a decision. It really could only be a concern over market appeal.

 

[aeolist]

Game looks really interesting to me. I've not really noticed this game before so thanks for the thread drawing attention to it. Definitely will keep my eye out for it.

I just hope the pricing per episode is fair. I worry with Square Enix involved.

Is there any word on pricing or indeed how many episodes there will be in total and how much game time to expect per episode. Season pass pricing???

it looks like it's 5 episodes, first one for $5 and the whole thing for $20

the steam preorder is cheaper and apparently GMG has it for even less

 

[Endo Punk]

Publishers don't have to publish a product they don't like. If they're helping fund the project, they'll get some say. If they focus group and find a male lead is testing better, they might go that route. Not enough info to base a conclusion, but that's one possible explanation I could see for such a decision. It really could only be a concern over market appeal.

I don't think any publisher would turn down a female lead if it came from a credible developer of which Dontnot isn't one.

 

[……forgetit]

Yeah, the culture is different. They don't deny games with females in them as often. :/ I typically play horror games or Nintendo games, so very rarely am I exposed to the ten year old with skimpy clothes thing.

I'm not super into guns or shooting people. And I don't really like playing as a big beefy dude, because I don't like feeling over powering. I want to feel dwarfed by enemies. It's more exciting to be more on the disempowered side. There's just a lot stylistically and attitude wise that turns me off from most western titles. The consumer focus tested risk averse aspect is definitely souring for me.

Besides all of that, publishers have a tendency to make designers draw the women with less clothes and stuff. Or make the bust size bigger. All of that marketing based feedback really takes a toll on whatever the real artistic vision initially was. I want to see developers win more freedom. I hope that shift happens soon.

Maybe when the economy boosts up, publisher will take more experimental risks.

All fair points I can agree with. The issue though is a general difference in culture when it comes to some of the things you said. In the west, particularly the US, there's an obsession with being bigger or stringer than your enemy, while in Japan they seem to be okay with overcoming something makes you look insignificant in comparison, they're different but neither are quite better than the other.

All that said I think we can agree on devs getting more freedom, and are you saying the less clothing thing isva western issue? Because honestly it's a trend that's dieing out in western AAA releases. I really can't think of the last time I saw skimpy clothes in a big western game, but it's definitely been at least a year.

 

[UrbanRats]

I wish dontnod would hire better writers though

Weird that they decided to focus on a (i assume) very heavy story game, with their second entry, after the first one had such mediocre (let's even say bad) writing.

Bad writing in a gameplay heavy game is easily ignored (say, Super Mario).
Bad writing in a gameplay light game is basically a death sentence for the game (say, Heavy Rain or Beyond).

 

[zeldablue]

Kind of jumping into the middle of a conversation here, but it's kind of interesting that you listed these two. To my understanding, the Japanese horror boom of the late '90s had a pronounced female audience, which is why you have a lot of female leads. Aya Brea, Jill Valentine, the girls from Clock Tower and Fatal Frame (can't remember the names).

Yeah. It was nice.

It's just not the same anymore. I find myself sticking to games between 1990 - 2006 because 2006 was when the AAA industry got too big to be creative or experimental.

The industry polarized and died for me around the beginning of last gen. The genre and character stagnation has been unbearable for me.

This game seems really interesting and reminds me of Telltale's Walking Dead. If it ends up being good, then I'll have some regained hope.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I don't think any publisher would turn down a female lead if it came from a credible developer of which Dontnot isn't one.

You have no idea what their goals are as publisher. It happens in movies and television all the time, where the studio asks for changes to the script or cast. There's no reason to think something similar doesn't occur in games. Hell, lots of people think Activision did that to Bungie over Destiny. PEACE.

 

[Lime]

I don't think any publisher would turn down a female lead if it came from a credible developer of which Dontnot isn't one.

Are you sure about that? Irrational had bioshock in their portfolio and they couldn't even get Elizabeth on the main cover of the game.

The games industry, like other entertainment industries, are structurally sexist (and racist).

 

[Crossing Eden]

#MoreBaldSpaceMarines
"We have some notes..."

You have no idea, one of the most recent things i've worked on with a team and a paying client was awful, they had us change and adjust the character design for the female lead and re-record the voice multiple times, set us back in production and forced extended crunch time that could've been avoided if they hadn't made us change the character design over and over. The result is that the end product wasn't as good as it could've been. And then there's myself trying to keep everyone in a good mood with my optimism.

And with certain things you can say "No" and explain why something looks the way it does or why a character is a certain way and maybe they'll agree and allow it. But no no this client wasn't having any of that. -_-

Point is, clients aren't all the same, or in this case, publishers, some are more lenient than others and there are definitely more factors at play here besides the gender of the protagonist in terms of convincing a publisher to fund the development of the game.

Weird that they decided to focus on a (i assume) very heavy story game, with their second entry, after the first one had such mediocre (let's even say bad) writing.

Bad writing in a gameplay heavy game is easily ignored (say, Super Mario).
Bad writing in a gameplay light game is basically a death sentence for the game (say, Heavy Rain or Beyond).

I will be so unbelievably disappointed if they don't deliver with the story.

 

[silvermember]

Dontnod are 2 games old and they already have become insufferable imho. That's not how you get gamers on your side, using shock and awe. Remember Me has a 70 on metacritic and a lot of mixed reviews, generally considered by gamers as a lacklustre game. That speaks volumes than a game with a female lead. If you are inclined to make games with female leads that's awesome, but first have one that actually puts publishers in their place. They are touting their horn early once again and it definitely comes off as a tactic to get some sales, I don't feel they are confident in the product they have.

Did not know "gamers" was a hivemind.

In any case reading your post in this thread, you seem to doing a great job (as in desperate) at projecting your views onto others. You seem to have issues with female leads.

The fact of the matter is whether that is their intent at shock and awe is not really relevant in the grand scheme of things, unless you can prove they are lying and no matter how much you try you can't . Remember me has no relevance in this case unless you are trying to make an argument that publishers did not trust the abilities of the developers but you are not. Your rant somehow is blaming the female lead for the game's terrible mechanics.

The reality is the people who have issues with what Dontnod is doing were probably NEVER going to buy the game in the first which makes all your comments simply white noise. As a matter of fact, it will probably help them more if only to get more players to prove the publishers wrong. If you wanted to make an argument that revealing this information might be their way of improving sales, that would be logical but your post just reeks of someone who has issues with female leads.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

You'd think all the horny teens would want to play as a hot chick in 3rd person rather than a ugly bald man

Hehe, I've always had an affinity for female characters, even going through my teenage hornball years, and afterwards, I still do. If a game gave me a choice of whether to play as a male or female character, I'd ALWAYS choose the female(Fio and Eri were always my faves in the Metal Slug series, and Chun Li was always my fighter in SF2).

Well good on you Square. I'm looking forward to playing through this once it's out.

And a few months ago, people were aping Square for being sexist because FFXV had no playable female characters, and lumped them together with all the other developers that give the cold shoulder to female leads, DESPITE Square having come off a series with strong female lead(the final game being a SOLE female lead game), and having games starring strong female characters in their past. And I called BS on these people for jumping to conclusion and getting hyped on the witchhunt mentality because of the whole Gamergate thing.

 

[zeldablue]

All fair points I can agree with. The issue though is a general difference in culture when it comes to some of the things you said. In the west, particularly the US, there's an obsession with being bigger or stringer than your enemy, while in Japan they seem to be okay with overcoming something makes you look insignificant in comparison, they're different but neither are quite better than the other.

All that said I think we can agree on devs getting more freedom, and are you saying the less clothing thing isva western issue? Because honestly it's a trend that's dieing out in western AAA releases. I really can't think of the last time I saw skimpy clothes in a big western game, but it's definitely been at least a year.

Lol, I don't have much to back up the skimpy clothes thing. Just Anita and Raph Kosher who both said publishers force female characters to be more sexualized than they were initially designed to be for marketing purposes. Even if it clashes with the character they strip her down anyways.

Anita never seems to cite anything, but Raph is a senior developer and says it happens frequently and turns younger girls off from those titles.

 

[……forgetit]

On the subject of game covers, do they even really matter anymore with the age of information we live in? I can't see too many people buying a game solely based on the cover without at least some background knowledge of the game, but I could be wrong.

You'd be surprised, kids still walk into stores with a pocket full of birthday money anf look down the selves for what to buy, adults make impulse purchases based on the desplay next to the counter, and other things remain the same. I'd say boxart is still important dispite the homogenization of culture that the internet has caused.

 

[Gbraga]

Good thing they didn't, since the main characters are what made me interested.

I hope this is good, I'll probably get it day one.

 

[……forgetit]

Lol, I don't have much to back up the skimpy clothes thing. Just Anita and Raph Kosher who both said publishers force female characters to be more sexualized than they were initially designed to be for marketing purposes. Even if it clashes with the character they strip her down anyways.

Anita never seems to cite anything, but Raph is a senior developer and says it happens frequently and turns younger girls off from those titles.

Huh, never heard that one before, can you send a link? I'd like to read up on it.

 

[sleepykyo]

On the subject of game covers, do they even really matter anymore with the age of information we live in? I can't see too many people buying a game solely based on the cover without at least some background knowledge of the game, but I could be wrong.

Eh, first impressions matter and what not. Then there is how that impression tints everything afterward.

 

[Lime]

I will be so unbelievably disappointed if they don't deliver with the story.

Be prepared to be disappointed then. The dialogue in the released videos are pretty bad and it's not like Remember Me was much good in its story.

 

[Endo Punk]

Did not know "gamers" was a hivemind.

In any case reading your post in this thread, you seem to doing a great job (as in desperate) at projecting your views onto others. You seem to have issues with female leads.

The fact of the matter is whether that is their intent at shock and awe is not really relevant in the grand scheme of things, unless you can prove they are lying and no matter how much you try you can't . Remember me has no relevance in this case unless you are trying to make an argument that publishers did not trust the abilities of the developers but you are not. Your rant somehow is blaming the female lead for the game's terrible mechanics.

The reality is the people who have issues with what Dontnod is doing were probably NEVER going to buy the game in the first which makes all your comments simply white noise. As a matter of fact, it will probably help them more if only to get more players to prove the publishers wrong. If you wanted to make an argument that revealing this information might be their way of improving sales, that would be logical but your post just reeks of someone who has issues with female leads.

"generally" by gamers. Means some liked it, most didn't. Reflected on its terrible sales.

Some of my favorite games have female leads like RE3, Fear Effect games, Parasite Eve, Bayonetta(not that fav), Project Zero, and recently Transistor which is my GOTY 2014. I don't have a problem with female leads I have a problem with Dontnod doing the exact same thing they did when trying to sell Remember Me to gamers. That's a terrible way to sell your game and it just takes the conversation away from the game to representation of women in games and that conversation just runs in circles. We get it you made a game with women do you want a medal? I mean holy shit let the game speak for itself. Supergiant didn't need to resort to such cheap sales tactics with Transistor because a dev knows when he has a product that is great and Dontnot are showing once again they may not.

 

[UrbanRats]

I will be so unbelievably disappointed if they don't deliver with the story.

YMMV.
I don't expect much, personally.

It's one reason why i'm not very excited about gameplay light games, to be honest.
It's not that they're inherently bad or anything like that, but personally i don't have much interest in someone dipping their toes in somewhat more meaningful themes, when i can watch a movie or read a book that not only does that, but with a level of excellence and craft far beyond what we see in games, when it comes to actually exploring those themes.

It's kind of says it all when Last of Us (as good as it is) is touted as some revolutionary piece of writing for videogames.

That said, i do understand that writing for games is much more difficult given their nature and don't want to sound like an elitist prick, just explaining why i really don't give stories in games that much importance as of now.

 

[MormaPope]

structural sexism ahoy!

I wish some people in this thread would criticize this instead of trying to excuse it or change the conversation to something else



"playing the gender card"

"be quiet"

Where have I seen this arguments before?

You mean you want the arguments to only align with what you want to argue for.

Yeah, lets ignore all the business aspects and reality so we can argue about shit YOU want to argue about. Remember Me selling poorly and reviewing poorly? Doesn't matter, cover your ears and enter lala land.

Are you sure about that? Irrational had bioshock in their portfolio and they couldn't even get Elizabeth on the main cover of the game.

The games industry, like other entertainment industries, are structurally sexist (and racist).

Case in point.

 

[aeolist]

"generally" by gamers. Means some liked it, most didn't. Reflected on its terrible sales.

so there aren't any games that are "generally agreed" to be good that had terrible sales? everything that's top quality is a hit?

 

[Endo Punk]

so there aren't any games that are "generally agreed" to be good that had terrible sales? everything that's top quality is a hit?

what? sure. Hey if people like Remember Me that's great.

 

[Tigress]

This is the same kinda thing for other entertainment industries, situations like like pitching or being commissioned for an animated film, television show, or even a short educational project. The client is providing funding for the project so naturally they have a lot of control over the entire project, it can be unfortunate when an aspect has to be unchanged however, like the gender of the main character. It's not a good feeling.

And I guarentee that you'd also have a bunch of loud mouths talking about how Rockstar sold out and they compromised their vision to appeal to the PC/SJWs and that this was just a cheap way of getting attention/making that group happy.

Hell, we already have some one arguing that about the developer in question in this thread. And this developer doesn't already have a following that is very annoyed at people "whining" about female representation in the game. GTA has a bunch of followers who perceive the complaints as ways to censor GTA and are very sensitive to anyone making any complaint regarding female representation (remember the review that said GTA V was a great game and she recommended it but did mention it had problems with female representation? People were yelling she should be fired and trying to bring up campaigns to get her fired, I think they even got one on change.org to get her fired. All because she dared say that it had some issues with female representation, even while overall saying it was a good game and worth playing).

I'm not saying Rockstar shouldn't do it (I really want them to add a female lead. I would be so stoked). But I do think that Rockstar would have a point that it would upset some of their customers. It would also make others like me really happy. Thing is... I'll buy it even if it doesn't improve. Where as some of those people won't... so I can see why Rockstar would decide to err on not pissing the ones more likely to actually boycott. I'm used to status quo and would like to see it improved but that's the thing, I'm used to it and while I want it to change, I take it for granted it might not. Those who are used to status quo and like it are more likely to get stubbern if it does change because they're not used to it changing. Where the bonus would be and this is why it's riskier is Rockstar could pick up new users who were otherwise turned off. But thing is, it's easier to tell what old customers they will lose than tell how many new buyers they'd gai.n.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Be prepared to be disappointed then. The dialogue in the released videos are pretty bad and it's not like Remember Me was much good in its story.

YMMV.
I don't expect much, personally.

It's one reason why i'm not very excited about gameplay light games, to be honest.
It's not that they're inherently bad or anything like that, but personally i don't have much interest in someone dipping their toes in somewhat more meaningful themes, when i can watch a movie or read a book that not only does that, but with a level of excellence and craft far beyond what we see in games, when it comes to actually exploring those themes.

It's kind of says it all when Last of Us (as good as it is) is touted as some revolutionary piece of writing for videogames.

That said, i do understand that writing for games is much more difficult given their nature and don't want to sound like an elitist prick, just explaining why i really don't give stories in games that much importance as of now.

Stop trying to deflate my excitement. (._. )
If it doesn't delivery I will be very critical of the game. Like I am with Beyond Two Souls.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146867639&postcount=328
Won't know until it releases.

And I guarentee that you'd also have a bunch of loud mouths talking about how Rockstar sold out and they compromised their vision to appeal to the PC/SJWs and that this was just a cheap way of getting attention/making that group happy.

Hell, we already have some one arguing that about the developer in question in this thread. And this developer doesn't already have a following that is very annoyed at people "whining" about female representation in the game. GTA has a bunch of followers who perceive the complaints as ways to censor GTA and are very sensitive to anyone making any complaint regarding female representation (remember the review that said GTA V was a great game and she recommended it but did mention it had problems with female representation? People were yelling she should be fired and trying to bring up campaigns, I think they even got one on change.org to get her fired).

I do find it annoying when progressiveness and inclusion as pandering.

 

[LeleSocho]

Oh... so Dontnod went to barely having gameplay to no gameplay at all...
Welp another developer to add in the "never check again" list, too bad because their art styles were and still are good.

On topic though, i know first hand a prime example of people who doesn't want to play a game because the playable character was a female, publishers simply respond to these idiots taste.
Shameful.

 

[……forgetit]

I truly think Remember Me would have sold poorly with or without a female lead. I remember the marketing being somewhat abstract which didn't really explain what the game was about. I also remember the release coming out of nowhere and a lot of people not realizing that it was out.

Finally reviews were poor, which couldn't have helped.

I haven't played remember me, but the reviews really made it sound bad. Honestly I think the game sold more due to having a female protagonist rather than losing sales. People were talking about the game even though everything around it was mediocre at best. They didn't care because it looked good, they cared because the Dev kept talking about how hard it was to get a game with a female character made.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

Again with this "insecurity" thing. Just because some people prefer to play games with one particular gender, does not make them insecure about anything. It's just their personal taste. I'm getting tired of people being looked down upon for their entertainment choice.

Once again you're talking about personal taste when someone is making a comment about developers/publishers.

And now you are implying that you don't like western games because of the large number of male protagonists. Which is technically just as closed-minded as people not wanting to play games with female leads.

Not with the games industry looking like it does now. It's a false equivalence. Good female leads are a rarity these days, wanting to play a big budget game with a female lead as often as one with a male lead does not equal preferring female leads over male ones.

There is this unpleasant thing happening recently where people who prefer female characters look down on people who prefer male ones. Like they are automatically superior people to the others for some reason. It's incredibly pompus and shallow.

Honestly, I can see what you're getting at. The problem is that those people who prefer to play games with traditional male/female roles and male leads etc. rarely formulate the argument in the sense that "this is what I want to play: awesome cool buff dude who says cool shit and blows stuff up, with some hot women thrown in as eye candy". They come up with weird ass excuses about creative freedom, freedom of speech, censorship and whatnot. I'd say if someone uses the personal preference argument that's perfectly all-right, you're entitled to your tastes. But that doesn't mean people don't get to critique the industry for only catering to one set of tastes. If that means that only those with that particular personal taste get catered to, then it's a problem which should be highlighted.

 

[zeldablue]

The publisher for Remember Me halved the budget because of the female lead. So Remember Me was probably sucky due to the financial constraints created by the publisher's fear of female protagonists. There are a lot of failure cycles created by self fulfilling prophecies made through a lot of these problems. Not just with games but with real life people as well. :/

Huh, never heard that one before, can you send a link? I'd like to read up on it.

One is a podcast and the other is a youtube video. I'll link them when I'm off mobile.

 

[threelights]

You see, SE is so out of touch with gamers, that they don't even know about male protagonists selling more, so they're just like "female? Yeah, sure."


=P

Anyway, two things could be said. First, good on SE's part for letting devs do what they wanted to do. And second, this thread is 4 pages long already, where previous threads about the game wouldn't reach the second page... (although, if the story is true, they SHOULD be using it to get attention).

 

[Steel]

The publisher for Remember Me halved the budget because of the female lead. So Remember Me was probably sucky due to the financial constraints created by the publisher's fear of female protagonists. There are a lot of failure cycles created by self fulfilling prophecies made through a lot of these problems. Not just with games but with real life people as well. :/

I don't think Remember Me's problems stem from simply a small budget. I mean, the graphics are the most expensive part of a game and the graphics in that game are the sole appeal. The gameplay is really simplistic, and frankly, imo, boring. The story is really... middling. Those problems are really completely divorced from a lack of budget, throwing more money at this particular project probably would not have produced something better.

 

[……forgetit]

Once again you're talking about personal taste when someone is making a comment about developers/publishers.



Not with the games industry looking like it does now. It's a false equivalence. Good female leads are a rarity these days, wanting to play a big budget game with a female lead as often as one with a male lead does not equal preferring female leads over male ones.




Honestly, I can see what you're getting at. The problem is that those people who prefer to play games with traditional male/female roles and male leads etc. rarely formulate the argument in the sense that "this is what I want to play: awesome cool buff dude who says cool shit and blows stuff up, with some hot women thrown in as eye candy". They come up with weird ass excuses about creative freedom, freedom of speech, censorship and whatnot. I'd say if someone uses the personal preference argument that's perfectly all-right, you're entitled to your tastes. But that doesn't mean people don't get to critique the industry for only catering to one set of tastes. If that means that only those with that particular personal taste get catered to, then it's a problem which should be highlighted.

Eh, when it comes to games with a set protagonist I really don't care what the gender is, but I know I always pick a male character when given the choice. Not because of some aversion to playing female characters, but because I get much more attached to a game when I make the character as close to me as possible. This really isn't a factor in story driven games though where it's the dev's job to make me care about the character regardless of what their gender is. It honestly makes me think about the link gender threads from last E3. Eventually I realized that I'm not against female link, I'm against customizable link because I like to get invested in the maim character in Zelda games, not play as myself.

 

[Tigress]

I do find it annoying when progressiveness and inclusion as pandering.

I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't make sense. I think it's missing some words maybe? Did you mean "I do find it annoying when progrossiveness and inclusion is seen as pandering"? Or did you mean " I do find it annoying when progressiveness and incluusion is used as pandering"?

 

[cheesekao]

The publisher for Remember Me halved the budget because of the female lead. So Remember Me was probably sucky due to the financial constraints created by the publisher's fear of female protagonists. There are a lot of failure cycles created by self fulfilling prophecies made through a lot of these problems. Not just with games but with real life people as well. :/



One is a podcast and the other is a youtube video. I'll link them when I'm off mobile.

I've never heard of that before. Source?

 

[Crossing Eden]

I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't make sense. I think it's missing some words maybe? Did you mean "I do find it annoying when progrossiveness and inclusion is seen as pandering"? Or did you mean " I do find it annoying when progressiveness and incluusion is used as pandering"?

Typo. I meant to say I find it annoying when progressiveness and inclusiveness is seen as pandering. Like when people try to complain about DAI.

 

[Tigress]

Typo. I meant to say I find it annoying when progressiveness and inclusiveness is seen as pandering.

After trying to come up with what you might mean I was thinking that probably was it (my second proposed sentence seemed an awkward way to say that sentiment). Just wanted to make sure cause the missing words could totally change meaning .

 

[threelights]

I don't think Remember Me's problems stem from simply a small budget. I mean, the graphics are the most expensive part of a game and the graphics in that game are the sole appeal. The gameplay is really simplistic, and frankly, imo, boring. The story is really... middling. Those problems are really completely divorced from a lack of budget, throwing more money at this particular project probably would not have produced something better.

Uh....

They're not. With less budget they have to cut stuff from the game. If they didn't axe the visuals, they probably axed the gameplay.

 

[sleepykyo]

The publisher for Remember Me halved the budget because of the female lead. So Remember Me was probably sucky due to the financial constraints created by the publisher's fear of female protagonists.

Capcom and Sony? Dontnod's kool-aid must be spiked with some strong stuff.