The Mercy nerf is predictable, expected, makes sense, and isn't that huge of a deal. Anybody that didn't see exactly this coming from the moment they announced the rework underestimates how these things are designed. This is all pretty by the book and should shake out in the end.
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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do
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NeoRaider
Member
But my question is simple: What is PTR for?? They didn't notice that Mercy was "too powerful"? Why did they release reworked Mercy the way they did just to change her few days later?? I am confused.
it's called "community feedback"
NeoRaider
Member
There was community feedback during her PTR testing period too. A lot of it. And they did nothing, they released Mercy as they put her on PTR.
They don't give a fuck about community feedback, but keep thinking that they do.
PTR is basically for emergency balance shit and making sure the game doesn't explode from bugs. The actual balance data you get from PTR outside of extremes is generally pretty garbage. I dislike how they actually release insanely overtuned shit to PTR and then nerf it while still on there (like they did with Mercy's pistol in ult). Like, there's prolly a good reason they do it, but at the same time it kind of sets up this expectation that PTR is for balancing when it's not.
Mercy was going to be overtuned and busted. They absolutely 100% knew this. They also wanted the new design out there like this for the sake of data and to see what that expectation gives them. If she gets nerfed soon, that's whatever. One month of Mercy being broke after rework is like no time at all in the grand scheme of how long this game can last.
Sometimes they fuck this up and we end up with Bastion though. I feel like that was them not understanding what their communities do with the tools they give them rather than this strategy.
They did change Mercy a few times on PTR. First iteration was really stupid lol. Give them a break I guess. Not many people play PTR and it's very possible that they wanted to change her but the patches are made in advance for consoles and they can't change it anytime they want, they gotta release that junkertown. They should really go back to leading on PC updates and when everything is fixed on PTR then go to console. These recent updates have been very buggy, they patched this last one like six times in one week on PC to finally get it done, shit wasn't ready.
I doubt she will be almost useless in any capacity. Single solo rez and the chain staff ult are actually still stronger than everything pre rework Mercy had.
Will she be meta? Fuck if I know. People get too hung up on nerfs. IT's gonna feel bad but the sky isn't falling.
I hope so, let's wait until she goes live and see.
ubersticky
Member
This Mercy nerf was uncalled for. She's completely obselete now. Guess I'm done with Mercy until they figure out what to actually do with her.
But Junkrat doesn't?
But Junkrat doesn't?
I think their idea of rez on an ability is flawed. You can pick Mercy on attack first point, first teammates that dies rez it, go back switch to Lucio or something else. Rez needs to take a resources not just time.
Rez should be like it is now but it starts at 0 charge, you heal you get charge, it should take as long as old ult did, then you can rez. The way it works right now first picks are far less valuable. Maybe that way they can make Valkyrie better, maybe your rez charges faster by healing during ult or something like that.
Rez should be like it is now but it starts at 0 charge, you heal you get charge, it should take as long as old ult did, then you can rez. The way it works right now first picks are far less valuable. Maybe that way they can make Valkyrie better, maybe your rez charges faster by healing during ult or something like that.
Terareflection
Member
Tire is slower in the PTR actually.
I don't think a serious team would ever do this. You might pick Mercy and try to brute force first point with the free rez, then after the take switch ye? That's actually a thing that already happens with various DPS and I think is fine.
Damn dad is angry and that says a lot when such a calm guy like Kaplan gets mad at you. You dun goofed.
Well that guy was insulting his friends/colleagues without any productive feedback but "they fucking suck, get rid of them". I'm sure anybody would do the same if they had a good relationship with them.
I can understand why they'd get rid of the cooldown reset, or the lowered cooldown during valkyrie. But getting rid of both is overkill, more so in which her momentum was her best asset from the recent changes.
Speaking of which, Lucio gains significantly less speed off of walls now. His maximum speed hasn't changed, but actually getting to his top speed is significantly more difficult.
(LIVE vs. PTR)
Edit: Here's another example.
I agree with Jeff, that kind of comment is not productive and insulting.
My suggestion would be either leave her reset her rez after the ult, but don't let it be 10 seconds, or have it be 10 seconds, but don't let it reset after the ultimate.
Having done both seems overkill to me. I understand the need for the nerf, but like many have said, they went too far. It's the PTR though, so it is subject to change.
Nuno Pinto
Member
If I had to pick one I would choose the reset, I think it makes more sense than reducing the cooldown to 10s (never really liked this one).
This way we could rez two people max, while mantaining the cooldown always on 30s (they could tweak this value after if necessary).
This way we could rez two people max, while mantaining the cooldown always on 30s (they could tweak this value after if necessary).
benicillin
Banned
See I would probably rather take the CD, as it would give me more fun options during my ult than healbot...which I thought was the entire purpose of the rework.
I still think they should just revert to vanilla and adjust her huge Rez ult. You know, like back before people complained it was UP because she had no invulnerability and couldnt move during it.
I'll remain optimistic, but I'm betting that the changes will go live (to the main game) in their current state. I'm dreading the Lucio change, especially.
Those nerfs aren't quite as good as deleting Mercy completely from the game, but it's an OK start.
Vanilla Mercy was garbage af and incredibly tilting for both sides.
Vanilla Mercy was garbage af and incredibly tilting for both sides.
Nuno Pinto
Member
I think the difference would be more about using your ult after someone die (reset) or using it when you expect someone to die after hearing a enemy ult go off (lower cooldown).
Can't agree with this, hiding mercy had to go.
What's clear is that the time for Blizzard to choose between competitive side of the game and mass appeal casual side is approaching fast with OWL coming up. There is so much money and time invested in that, they gotta listen to the teams to make the game most fitting for esport and players to make big flashy exciting plays and someone like Mercy just says nope to all of that.
OTH, the popularity of the game, its wide appeal that many people with zero FPS experience played it because they liked the characters and that they were accessible even if you couldn't aim is at stake. I don't think they can keep both sides happy and probably this group makes them more money honestly. I'm not convinced OW esport will be any good or that many people would watch it just like how it has flopped so far with viewers.
Hearthstone team is under same criticism but they never gave a shit about competitive players beyond lip service and throwing money for advertisement. OW team seem to have chosen 1st option which probably makes a better game but they will lose a lot with public.
OTH, the popularity of the game, its wide appeal that many people with zero FPS experience played it because they liked the characters and that they were accessible even if you couldn't aim is at stake. I don't think they can keep both sides happy and probably this group makes them more money honestly. I'm not convinced OW esport will be any good or that many people would watch it just like how it has flopped so far with viewers.
Hearthstone team is under same criticism but they never gave a shit about competitive players beyond lip service and throwing money for advertisement. OW team seem to have chosen 1st option which probably makes a better game but they will lose a lot with public.
Incendiary
Banned
I think the biggest problem with Mercy's new ult is that there was no downside. All other ults are good but have a drawback of some sort. Lucio has a short range, Zenyatta can't stop burst damage, Junkrat's tire can be destroyed and he's vulnerable, 76 requires line of sight to be useful, etc.
But when you pop Valkyrie you have increased mobility, stronger healing and boosting, more Rezzes but nothing that equals it out for your opponents and gives them a chance to counter it. Much like the only counter to the original Rez was "kill Mercy" now the only counter to Valkyrie is "kill Mercy." The fact that all her abilities were influenced by her ult on top of it not being counterable was ridiculous - fun, but ridiculous. Having Rez exist outside of Valkyrie is probably a good idea.
But when you pop Valkyrie you have increased mobility, stronger healing and boosting, more Rezzes but nothing that equals it out for your opponents and gives them a chance to counter it. Much like the only counter to the original Rez was "kill Mercy" now the only counter to Valkyrie is "kill Mercy." The fact that all her abilities were influenced by her ult on top of it not being counterable was ridiculous - fun, but ridiculous. Having Rez exist outside of Valkyrie is probably a good idea.
benicillin
Banned
Well I didn't say to just leave it as it was, but you could start with that as a base and try some things to adjust it from there because I think putting Rez on an ability was a bad idea and her new ultimate is half-baked and is now being nerfed into boring nothingness.
Well, the problem with Mercy's New New ult is that it'll be boring as fuck. You're not gonna' get thanked by your team for saving them from a DPS ult like Zen and Lucio, you're not gonna' turn the tide of a losing teamfight with your clever tactics...
You're gonna' be standing back, hooking up a beam to one of your allies, and holding the button down, because now the only two abilities that are meaningfully boosted by Valkyrie are the beams. Peak fucking fun factor, am I right?
You're gonna' be standing back, hooking up a beam to one of your allies, and holding the button down, because now the only two abilities that are meaningfully boosted by Valkyrie are the beams. Peak fucking fun factor, am I right?
I'd really wish they would tweak it so that it resets the cooldown upon activating Valkyrie, then using it while in Valkyrie puts it on a 20 second cooldown and see how that plays out. (It takes what is otherwise 4 rezzes in ~25 seconds down to 3 rezzes in ~30 seconds during ult.) I get that this might still be too powerful but that's why more frequent, smaller tweaks are needed in the patches.
Besides, her new mobility was the most interesting (and best) part of her rework. And her ultimate is detrimental to use against Dragonblade or Tactical Visor now, since it requires your teammates to stay close in a group.
At the very least, I hope the change to GA momentum doesn't go through.
Incendiary
Banned
Mercy as a character revolves around being the most useful when she's "holding the button down." That's unfortunately how she's designed at a base level. You can argue about how fun that is but that's essentially her function as a character.
Everyone's ult centers around one thing - Soldier and McCree are damage. Lucio and Zen are Defense. Orissa boosts power. Reinhardt is area stun, Ana powers up a single target. Valkyrie in its initial form powered up all of Mercy's abilities and basically made her a god. Then they took out her pistol being more powerful, but it was still basically turning Mercy into Super Mercy. Yeah it's fun, but Junkrat with unlimited mines and no cooldown is also fun - doesn't mean it's balanced or appropriate for the game.
It could use adjustment, but this isn't trimming the hedges - it's scorching the Earth! lol
Kor of Memory
Member
Got my Orisa win!
That said, I noticed some fuckery going on while playing Orisa this morning.
For instance, at the 1 minute mark of the video above, you can see me do about 98% worth of Pharahs health to her, but she shoots a rocket point blank, and the game considers it killing herself.
So this is another video of one of my losses where I found Orisa has a really shitty double standard. So at about 4:45 you see a McCree get hit by Pharah's Concussion blast off the map. Before he dies, I get the last hit. The game still gives this kill to Pharah. I make note of this, but don't get upset by it. This must just be the rules. The environmental part is more important than the last touch. So just over a minute later, you see me pull a McCree off the map with my Halt at 6:05, except after I've already pulled him off the map, Pharah hits him with another Concussion blast and this earns her the kill.
So what the hell is the rule here?
Incendiary
Banned
I'm honestly down for scorched earth at this point. The whole point of the Mercy rework was so she wasn't a must-pick and also making the game more fun for people playing against her. And Valkyrie as-is has just exchanged one problem for another and still kept her as a must-pick that's annoying to play against. If all her ult is her flying around boosting/healing multiple people on her team, it turns her into a character that has to use her ult more strategically to turn the tide of the game.
I'm okay with maybe having Rez reset once so you get two Rezzes in a 30 second period instead of one, but beyond that I think it's a good change for the state of the game.
Also we need another goddamn support character.
Aside from encouraging that hide and rez behaviour, I was fine with the old ultimate, her tweak made her more "reactive" I guess, but I think the goal was to get rid of the toxic behaviour from the beginning.
benicillin
Banned
Have you not looked at the Blizzard forums for the last like, month or two?
Nope, it's been like that for a while then?
benicillin
Banned
First it was full of people worried about her rework and the PTR changes and everyone else laughing at them / talking about how she'd be so much better now, then when it went live it's been full of people complaining about how she's overpowered.
Folks aren't gonna be happy until she's deleted from the game or nerfed into oblivion like Ana probably.
At this point I think I'd prefer if they just scrapped Valkyrie and rethought her ult. It no longer meaningfully enhances all her abilities - just the boring ones.
Instead, give her a brand new ult with a new mechanic that actually serves the purpose of an ult - a big ability that can swing teamfights in clutch moments.
Let her unleash a golden burst that renders all allies in a radius immune to damage and cc effects for 1.5-2 seconds. Mercy can now counter to D.Va, Tracer, Doomfist and Junkrat ults, and can lend assistance Vs. Mei, Reaper, Hanzo and Pharah ults.
She can earn real praise for well-timed ults, save her team from wipes and won't just be sitting back holding a beam on an ally for what is supposed to be her big crazy ability.
What's she gonna' do now? Be a shittier Zenyatta ult or a shittier Orisa ult. Either way it's shittier, and doesn't allow her to make "big plays" like nearly every other ult in the game.
Instead, give her a brand new ult with a new mechanic that actually serves the purpose of an ult - a big ability that can swing teamfights in clutch moments.
Let her unleash a golden burst that renders all allies in a radius immune to damage and cc effects for 1.5-2 seconds. Mercy can now counter to D.Va, Tracer, Doomfist and Junkrat ults, and can lend assistance Vs. Mei, Reaper, Hanzo and Pharah ults.
She can earn real praise for well-timed ults, save her team from wipes and won't just be sitting back holding a beam on an ally for what is supposed to be her big crazy ability.
What's she gonna' do now? Be a shittier Zenyatta ult or a shittier Orisa ult. Either way it's shittier, and doesn't allow her to make "big plays" like nearly every other ult in the game.
benicillin
Banned
Big Plays are reserved for HIGH SKILL HEROES ONLY. I pressed Q and earned that team wipe!
Dead Prince
Banned
What does Becca think of this.